637 réponses à ce sujet

[draken-heart]

Realmzmaster wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

sarcastictruths wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

Yet it invaldates player choice, as in makes the choices mean nothing because it places canon into the hands of the devs, who may not know what the majority want because they are quiet, sucking up whatever bioware throws at them.

As I said before, give me control of the information about the old protagonist and I will be fine. ME 2 did it if you do not import, making your shepard the one who made the decision, why not let us decide which warden or Hawke made the decision? other than the fact that it means nothing to the plot and thus should be canonized, if it means nothing then why make it a canon? In the end, Bioware has no Idea how I want the warden or Hawke, why choose for me who made what decision.

Which leads to the conundrum that gave us save imports, Stronger story or player choice?

Those opposed to the save import will probably say something along the lines that the save imports gives neither a stronger story or incorparate the player choices in a meaningful manner. They will say that if the save import are removed then the writers will have more time to create a great story, a story that will be far superior to the story that they would create if they have to worry about the save import, because they wouldn't have to worry about how to make all those decisions people could make in the previous games.

I am wondering if this is true then couldn't the same thing be said about choices period. Anytime, you have a game where player can picked between multiple choices then you have the issue of how those choices would affect the game, and if the save imports takes away from the storyline then wouldn't allowing players to have choices in a game period take away from the storyline as well. So, the best storylines will be created in games where everything is decided by the creators and not the player.

We have games in which that is exactly what happens. I like those games. Love them even. But, I don't think that the storylines in these games are superior to the ones where the player gets to make decisions for.

Bold is for truth. Let's see people against Save imports argue this.

The choices in game have aready been taken into account and are built into the story with the consequences already thought out. The story is stronger because the developer  will resolve those choices in the game. There will nothing left dangling that cause problems with a subsequent game. The developer already knowshow those choices will conclude.

For example as stated before what can you do with the story of the OGB. Nothing!, because half the population did not do the DR. So it remains a story untold. Or if Anders is dead how can the writers write a story of about Anders as a leader of the mage rebellion. Simply they cannot unless they invalidate a player choice and bring him back to life like they did Leliana.

Contrast that with Isabela coming or not coming back with the tome. That issue resolves itself in game and all the possible choices are account for. including if you give her to the Arishok. Hawke finds out she escapes. The same with Fenris if Hawke gives him up. Danarius sends a letter to Hawke stating that Fenris is back to his old compliant self now that his memories have been removed. Otherwise Fenris is free and Danarius is dead.

The choice resolves itself in game. That is why I say a stronger story can be written without the save import.

The question was couldn't the same be said about choice Period? as in all choice in game or not. would it not make a stronger story with no choice and everyone is playing the same game except for the protagonist?

Just resolving those choices in-game means nothing if a set canon makes none of those choices the "real Choice"

Once again there is the conundrum of Stronger story or player choice.

In other words, No choice beats resolved choice because noone is going to have an invalidated world and everyone has a super strong story.

Modifié par draken-heart, 28 octobre 2012 - 09:05 .

[Fast Jimmy]

No, the same couldn't be said of choice, because choice, in and of itself, IS an element of the plot.

You aren't just witnessing events that are on the path, but rather control them. It brings you into the story... more than that, you are a PART of the story.

The import mechanic strengthens this choice. Now, you are not just a part of one story, but you can continue on throughout MANY stories, an unending narrative that responds to my choices, my decisions... it makes the story MY story.

However, the difference between in-game choice and imported choices is that in-game choices don't cost more after the game is complete.

Let's say adding the choice of Werewolves vs. Dalish cost 500 zots to create and put into Origins. Those zots have been budgeted for and are built into the game's economics. DA:O sells X amount of units and pays for itself. All is great.

Then DA2 comes along and there now needs to be 75 zots devoted to following up on this choice. Not a big deal, it's not going to break the bank. Then in DA3, there is another reference to it, and, due to fan demand that the import choices be done better, it now costs 200 zots. Still not as mcb as the original choice itself, but more satisfying (and expensive) than the original choice.

The problem is that the zots for both of these references are coming out of DA2 and DA3's budget. If they were coming out of DA:O, you'd see that following up on these imports is now costing more zots than the actual original choice. If, now, every choice from DA:O turns out to cost double what it did in the original game (all things considered), it leads to two conclusions:

1) The longer the series goes, the less profitable the entire endeavor could become.
2) We need to plug the holes in the boat, so to speak, and quit offering choices that result in follow ups!

This, in turn, weakens the appeal of the story, since by virtue of making choice in general more expensive, makes choice less prevalent which, in a full logistic circle, makes the story weaker.

[Straw Nihilist]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

No, the same couldn't be said of choice, because choice, in and of itself, IS an element of the plot.

You aren't just witnessing events that are on the path, but rather control them. It brings you into the story... more than that, you are a PART of the story.

The import mechanic strengthens this choice. Now, you are not just a part of one story, but you can continue on throughout MANY stories, an unending narrative that responds to my choices, my decisions... it makes the story MY story.

However, the difference between in-game choice and imported choices is that in-game choices don't cost more after the game is complete.

Let's say adding the choice of Werewolves vs. Dalish cost 500 zots to create and put into Origins. Those zots have been budgeted for and are built into the game's economics. DA:O sells X amount of units and pays for itself. All is great.

Then DA2 comes along and there now needs to be 75 zots devoted to following up on this choice. Not a big deal, it's not going to break the bank. Then in DA3, there is another reference to it, and, due to fan demand that the import choices be done better, it now costs 200 zots. Still not as mcb as the original choice itself, but more satisfying (and expensive) than the original choice.

The problem is that the zots for both of these references are coming out of DA2 and DA3's budget. If they were coming out of DA:O, you'd see that following up on these imports is now costing more zots than the actual original choice. If, now, every choice from DA:O turns out to cost double what it did in the original game (all things considered), it leads to two conclusions:

1) The longer the series goes, the less profitable the entire endeavor could become.
2) We need to plug the holes in the boat, so to speak, and quit offering choices that result in follow ups!

This, in turn, weakens the appeal of the story, since by virtue of making choice in general more expensive, makes choice less prevalent which, in a full logistic circle, makes the story weaker.

[draken-heart]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

No, the same couldn't be said of choice, because choice, in and of itself, IS an element of the plot.

You aren't just witnessing events that are on the path, but rather control them. It brings you into the story... more than that, you are a PART of the story.

The import mechanic strengthens this choice. Now, you are not just a part of one story, but you can continue on throughout MANY stories, an unending narrative that responds to my choices, my decisions... it makes the story MY story.

However, the difference between in-game choice and imported choices is that in-game choices don't cost more after the game is complete.

Let's say adding the choice of Werewolves vs. Dalish cost 500 zots to create and put into Origins. Those zots have been budgeted for and are built into the game's economics. DA:O sells X amount of units and pays for itself. All is great.

Then DA2 comes along and there now needs to be 75 zots devoted to following up on this choice. Not a big deal, it's not going to break the bank. Then in DA3, there is another reference to it, and, due to fan demand that the import choices be done better, it now costs 200 zots. Still not as mcb as the original choice itself, but more satisfying (and expensive) than the original choice.

The problem is that the zots for both of these references are coming out of DA2 and DA3's budget. If they were coming out of DA:O, you'd see that following up on these imports is now costing more zots than the actual original choice. If, now, every choice from DA:O turns out to cost double what it did in the original game (all things considered), it leads to two conclusions:

1) The longer the series goes, the less profitable the entire endeavor could become.
2) We need to plug the holes in the boat, so to speak, and quit offering choices that result in follow ups!

This, in turn, weakens the appeal of the story, since by virtue of making choice in general more expensive, makes choice less prevalent which, in a full logistic circle, makes the story weaker.

If they do a set canon from here on out (if they do it once, they will do it again and again and again) then that makes choice in DA3 invalid as it is not their choice, whether by wrong gender or you did not know what they would choose is irrelevent, not using imports makes it like they are saying "we decided that your choices from past games are irrelevant, so we decided to choose for you. What ever choices you made in the past are alternate universes and mean nothing to the CANON on the game."

Truthfully, like I said, Resolving the issues in game mean nothing if the canon invalidates the choice.

[highcastle]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

1) The longer the series goes, the less profitable the entire endeavor could become.
2) We need to plug the holes in the boat, so to speak, and quit offering choices that result in follow ups!

Snipping the quote to save space.

I think Fast Jimmy's second point is the most crucial, and I actually think DA2 did a decent job of mostly referencing the "big" stuff: who's ruling Ferelden, what major treaties were secured, etc. Those are the choices I think should be reflected in future games, the big picture decisions that could have wide-ranging consequences. What we don't necessarily need are cameos from characters who were not major players.

Again, DA2 was pretty good about that. Zevran and Nathaniel popped up, for instance, but they were major companions and so it made sense to see them again briefly. Contrast that with ME2 which had appearances from practically every bit NPC from the first game right down to that woman who was trying to take control of a crime syndicate (who appeared in one missable side quest and who was so inconsequential to the main plot I've forgotten her name). 

When you have minor characters pop up or include references to very trivial matters, it actually makes the world feel smaller. We should be meeting new characters, not strictly remeeting old ones.

To bring this back on topic, I think imports are important, but I would take a survey of the big choices: who's alive or dead, who did Hawke side with at the endgame, etc. The outcomes of smaller quests can probably be confined to a single game.

[Fast Jimmy]

Truthfully, like I said, Resolving the issues in game mean nothing if the canon invalidates the choice.

That is not, in the least bit, true.

With a game with tons of choices, outcomes and endings, the devs create tons of different worlds. In the next game, they can realistically only show one world, with some shades of gray. That's a given.

So it's a 'pick your poison' situation. Would you rather have that next world completely ignore all of those decisions with an import that barely touches on these choices, or the next world ignore all of those decisions with a canon story? It seems, when you compare it this way, the two are equal.

But, when you think about it, if they live in a world with imports where any choice was possible (usually meaning NO choice was really reflected), this GREATLY lowers the ability to touch on any story, location or characters you've seen before. If I didn't want to see any part of the story of a previous game, I'd play a new IP. Imports prevent dealing with former story elements without things becoming more sticky than the devs may deem as worthy. So, in reality, when compared like that, the scales stop becoming even and instead tip in favor of setting a canon.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 28 octobre 2012 - 10:08 .

[draken-heart]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

That is not, in the least bit, true.

With a game with tons of choices, outcomes and endings, the devs create tons of different worlds. In the next game, they can realistically only show one world, with some shades of gray. That's a given.

So it's a 'pick your poison' situation. Would you rather have that next world completely ignore all of those decisions with an import that barely touches on these choices, or the next world ignore all of those decisions with a canon story? It seems, when you compare it this way, the two are equal.

But, when you think about it, if they live in a world with imports where any choice was possible (usually meaning NO choice was really reflected), this GREATLY lowers the ability to touch on any story, location or characters you've seen before. If I didn't want to see any part of the story of a previous game, I'd play a new IP. Imports prevent dealing with former story elements without things becoming more sticky than the devs may deem as worthy. So, in reality, when compared like that, the scales stop becoming even and instead tip in favor of setting a canon.

while I for one will never play a game where the world was defined by a male human noble warden. Give me the ability to define the warden/Hawke, and i will forgive Bioware for forcing me to play with a set canon.

For romance, I would be glad if Bioware mentions it but states that whoever it is the warden/LI were over (romance ended).

For me, Connection to the world trumps how strong the story is.

Modifié par draken-heart, 28 octobre 2012 - 10:13 .

[Fast Jimmy]

And if DA3 mentions nothing about who Hawke or the Warden were, personally (as in, no gender references, no origins references, no romances references), does this qualify?

[MillKill]

draken-heart wrote...

while I for one will never play a game where the world was defined by a male human noble warden. Give me the ability to define the warden/Hawke, and i will forgive Bioware for forcing me to play with a set canon.

For romance, I would be glad if Bioware mentions it but states that whoever it is the warden/LI were over (romance ended).

For me, Connection to the world trumps how strong the story is.

Why does it even need to be stated what race, gender, origin, or LI the Warden had? Just be vague and say, "The Hero of Fereldan chose Alistair as king, Bhelen as king, preserved the urn, and had the dark ritual performed."  Then say, "Hawke was the champion of Kirkwall and sided with the Templas, sent Feynriel to study in Tevinter, and killed the Arishok in single combat."

There's really no need to go into great detail about the Warden or Hawke. Only the big decisions they made are really relevant.

Note: Those decisions don't have to be the canon ones. It's just an example.

Edit: ninja'd by Fast Jimmy.
 

Modifié par MillKill, 28 octobre 2012 - 10:26 .

[draken-heart]

MillKill wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

while I for one will never play a game where the world was defined by a male human noble warden. Give me the ability to define the warden/Hawke, and i will forgive Bioware for forcing me to play with a set canon.

For romance, I would be glad if Bioware mentions it but states that whoever it is the warden/LI were over (romance ended).

For me, Connection to the world trumps how strong the story is.

Why does it even need to be stated what race, gender, origin, or LI the Warden had? Just be vague and say, "The Hero of Fereldan chose Alistair as king, Bhelen as king, preserved the urn, and had the dark ritual performed."  Then say, "Hawke was the champion of Kirkwall and sided with the Templas, sent Feynriel to study in Tevinter, and killed the Arishok in single combat."

There's really no need to go into great detail about the Warden or Hawke. Only the big decisions they made are really relevant.

Note: Those decisions don't have to be the canon ones. It's just an example.

Edit: ninja'd by Fast Jimmy.
 

Like I said, some connection to the world. Even a brief codex entry mentioning the romance is enough for me. I do not ask for it to be put into the dialogue of the romaced character, just a codex entry that states "The hero of Ferelden was a human mage who .... and stopped the blight. Over time, she and her bard decided it was best to end the relationship."

Simple, no great detail, just a brief mention to connect me to the world and former protagonists.

Modifié par draken-heart, 28 octobre 2012 - 10:39 .

[Realmzmaster]

If the next game in series is with a new protagonist and you the gamer are seeing through his/her eyes why would the PC care who Hawke or the warden romanced? Unless Hawke or the Warden bare some importance on the story at hand what is the purpose of mentioning them?

The game only needs to state what is the present situation of the world state. Who is King or Queen of Ferelden? Who is king of Orzammar? Who is the First Enchanter? Does not matter who put them there unless that it has some bearing on the present other than a history lesson or it tells the PC something prevalent to the task at hand.

If Bioware wants to set canon for each and every game in the series I have no problem with that as long as the choices in game are resolved in game.

[draken-heart]

Realmzmaster wrote...

If the next game in series is with a new protagonist and you the gamer are seeing through his/her eyes why would the PC care who Hawke or the warden romanced? Unless Hawke or the Warden bare some importance on the story at hand what is the purpose of mentioning them?

The game only needs to state what is the present situation of the world state. Who is King or Queen of Ferelden? Who is king of Orzammar? Who is the First Enchanter? Does not matter who put them there unless that it has some bearing on the present other than a history lesson or it tells the PC something prevalent to the task at hand.

If Bioware wants to set canon for each and every game in the series I have no problem with that as long as the choices in game are resolved in game.

Bolded confuses me. Wouldn't you want the choices you make at least mentioned, even if they are resolved already?

I would.

[Vicious]

For me, Connection to the world trumps how strong the story is.

DA2 has proven that you can throw in tons of references, but if the game's story is weak, [it was] people will slam it and call it Bioware's worst game ever, verbally abuse and attempt to internetz bullyz the developers, and go on several different websites and harp about how it sucks over and over and over and...


I sympathize,I do, but tons of import stuff is a lost cause and you can thank the fanbase for it.

[draken-heart]

Vicious wrote...

For me, Connection to the world trumps how strong the story is.

DA2 has proven that you can throw in tons of references, but if the game's story is weak, [it was] people will slam it and call it Bioware's worst game ever, verbally abuse and attempt to internetz bullyz the developers, and go on several different websites and harp about how it sucks over and over and over and...


I sympathize,I do, but tons of import stuff is a lost cause and you can thank the fanbase for it.

you do not even need to import everything. Just the important stuff, and That is what was the problem, too much to import.

Modifié par draken-heart, 28 octobre 2012 - 11:51 .

[Fast Jimmy]

You call DA2 a 'ton' of import stuff? I'd say a dozen states were acknowledged, ball park. That's a pittance for all the choice introduced in DA:O and DA:A. And NONE of these choices had any real follow-through or feedback. None of it made me feel like I had an impact on things, they were all just ways to say 'See? SEE? You did this in another game!'

And I guess that is my problem with the imports, as done both by ME and DA. They don't accomplish anything other than say 'Yep, we remember you did this thing!' They never once made me feel like my choice was important or meaningful, they only serve to say 'We saw that you did that.'

That's not proper follow through, at least not for me. And if they can't get better or more in-depth than just finding a way to say that I did something, rather than taking that story to the next step, then I don't want to bother with it.

[draken-heart]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

You call DA2 a 'ton' of import stuff? I'd say a dozen states were acknowledged, ball park. That's a pittance for all the choice introduced in DA:O and DA:A. And NONE of these choices had any real follow-through or feedback. None of it made me feel like I had an impact on things, they were all just ways to say 'See? SEE? You did this in another game!'

And I guess that is my problem with the imports, as done both by ME and DA. They don't accomplish anything other than say 'Yep, we remember you did this thing!' They never once made me feel like my choice was important or meaningful, they only serve to say 'We saw that you did that.'

That's not proper follow through, at least not for me. And if they can't get better or more in-depth than just finding a way to say that I did something, rather than taking that story to the next step, then I don't want to bother with it.

And if the choice doesn't fit the setting, does it still need a followthrough? I doubt it.

Like the Circle in Ferelden, do we need to know what happened there since the circles rebelled? no.
Do we need to know what happened at the anvil at this point? unless it plays a special role, then no.
Which side Hawke went with inthe end? Hawke is disappeared so that has no meaning here.

See my point?

Modifié par draken-heart, 29 octobre 2012 - 12:02 .

[draken-heart]

in case that does not make sense, WHO ON THE BIOWARE TEAM WILL READ THIS THREAD AND SAY "yeah, we made a mistake with save imports with DA, you will never have to worry again because we will set the canon so you all can suffer a great story to be made."?

I doubt this will ever happen, so leave it alone.

[mousestalker]

I would be good with a simple questionnaire ate the start of DA:I
1. Do you want to use the results from your game of DA:O?
a. Did your Warden survive?
b. Was your Warden male or female?
c. Was your Warden a dwarf, elf or human?
2. Do you want to use the results from your game of DA:2?
a. Was Hawke male or female?

If they can import those settings, then fine. Otherwise I will gladly answer a short questionnaire.

The only point of this should be to achieve this result:

Passerby 1: Did you hear the news?
Passerby 2: Ferelden is still backwards?
Passerby 1: That's hardly news, is it? No, the dwarven Hero of Ferelden has entered rehab with her paramour, the Champion of Kirkwall. Both women checked into the centre in Antiva.
Passerby 2: It was just a matter of time. Each of them has been complaining of hearing voices from some place beyond the Fade they call the Beeyessenn.

[Fast Jimmy]

Mouse, you forgot one question: is your Warden alive?

It would involve the same conversation as you outlined above, but with the caveat that Hawke is described as a bi-sexual necorphiliac.

After all, everyone is bi, right?

[Fast Jimmy]

draken-heart wrote...

in case that does not make sense, WHO ON THE BIOWARE TEAM WILL READ THIS THREAD AND SAY "yeah, we made a mistake with save imports with DA, you will never have to worry again because we will set the canon so you all can suffer a great story to be made."?

I doubt this will ever happen, so leave it alone.

I don't know if the devs will change anything, but I know they are listening. I have zero doubt in my mind that the likes of David Gaider have at least looked in this thread. So assuming we are talking in a vacuum is a little silly - we've seen evidence that they check out these types of threads regularly. 

But, as I've now said numerous times in this thread - I'm not trying to convince them. I'm trying to convince fans. If I can get fans who come in here screaming 'No canon! Import flags or die!' to say 'well, EVERY choice doesn't need to be carried over, just the really big ones and romance ones' then that is a win. It shows that the fans don't need every single scrap respected, but just the things that really matter to the next story and details the majority of fans seem to identify as 'key' aspects to previous characters. That's progress. For DA4, I may be able to get people to say the few places they made canon in DA3 were fantastic, and that they can do all canon except for, again, certain key details. At which point, I would consider my crusade complete. 

[draken-heart]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

in case that does not make sense, WHO ON THE BIOWARE TEAM WILL READ THIS THREAD AND SAY "yeah, we made a mistake with save imports with DA, you will never have to worry again because we will set the canon so you all can suffer a great story to be made."?

I doubt this will ever happen, so leave it alone.

I don't know if the devs will change anything, but I know they are listening. I have zero doubt in my mind that the likes of David Gaider have at least looked in this thread. So assuming we are talking in a vacuum is a little silly - we've seen evidence that they check out these types of threads regularly. 

But, as I've now said numerous times in this thread - I'm not trying to convince them. I'm trying to convince fans. If I can get fans who come in here screaming 'No canon! Import flags or die!' to say 'well, EVERY choice doesn't need to be carried over, just the really big ones and romance ones' then that is a win. It shows that the fans don't need every single scrap respected, but just the things that really matter to the next story and details the majority of fans seem to identify as 'key' aspects to previous characters. That's progress. For DA4, I may be able to get people to say the few places they made canon in DA3 were fantastic, and that they can do all canon except for, again, certain key details. At which point, I would consider my crusade complete. 

And I have said that, except that people in this thread are saying to remove it entirely and i am saying that they would only need to import the choices that fit the setting of the game. DA3, MAge-templar war so the ruler of ferelden is a given. others could be king of Orzamar and dark ritual if they can find a way to make that fit, if not the ashes fit as well somewhat.

[Malanek]

draken-heart wrote...
And I have said that, except that people in this thread are saying to remove it entirely and i am saying that they would only need to import the choices that fit the setting of the game. DA3, MAge-templar war so the ruler of ferelden is a given. others could be king of Orzamar and dark ritual if they can find a way to make that fit, if not the ashes fit as well somewhat.

What happens when they come to DA4 and all of a sudden some of the other choices they didn't import do matter?

However importing it isn't really a problem, thats just copying a lot of variables. Its what they do with it. And over time it will get more and more complicated. And because they don't want wildly divergent gameplay paths within a story, every choice will little to no real impact. That's what annoys me most about it. It is too complicated to do anything that isn't superficial, and a lot of genuinely interesting aspects from the past are lost unless they retcon.

[draken-heart]

Malanek999 wrote...

draken-heart wrote...
And I have said that, except that people in this thread are saying to remove it entirely and i am saying that they would only need to import the choices that fit the setting of the game. DA3, MAge-templar war so the ruler of ferelden is a given. others could be king of Orzamar and dark ritual if they can find a way to make that fit, if not the ashes fit as well somewhat.

What happens when they come to DA4 and all of a sudden some of the other choices they didn't import do matter?

However importing it isn't really a problem, thats just copying a lot of variables. Its what they do with it. And over time it will get more and more complicated. And because they don't want wildly divergent gameplay paths within a story, every choice will little to no real impact. That's what annoys me most about it. It is too complicated to do anything that isn't superficial, and a lot of genuinely interesting aspects from the past are lost unless they retcon.

And that is all you can really expect from it. Do you honestly think the whole game would change because you make this choice instead of that one?

People are so strange sometimes.

[Sanunes]

Malanek999 wrote...

What happens when they come to DA4 and all of a sudden some of the other choices they didn't import do matter?

However importing it isn't really a problem, thats just copying a lot of variables. Its what they do with it. And over time it will get more and more complicated. And because they don't want wildly divergent gameplay paths within a story, every choice will little to no real impact. That's what annoys me most about it. It is too complicated to do anything that isn't superficial, and a lot of genuinely interesting aspects from the past are lost unless they retcon.

I completely agree, the other thing that could happen if they picked a major plot point is they could canonize it and make people extremely upset that "they choice didn't matter" like what happened with Uldina in Mass Effect 3.

I do wish they could make a major choice have an impact on the game we are playing, but be able to converge in future games without seeming to be a retcon or canonizing a choice.

[draken-heart]

Sanunes wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

What happens when they come to DA4 and all of a sudden some of the other choices they didn't import do matter?

However importing it isn't really a problem, thats just copying a lot of variables. Its what they do with it. And over time it will get more and more complicated. And because they don't want wildly divergent gameplay paths within a story, every choice will little to no real impact. That's what annoys me most about it. It is too complicated to do anything that isn't superficial, and a lot of genuinely interesting aspects from the past are lost unless they retcon.

I completely agree, the other thing that could happen if they picked a major plot point is they could canonize it and make people extremely upset that "they choice didn't matter" like what happened with Uldina in Mass Effect 3.

I do wish they could make a major choice have an impact on the game we are playing, but be able to converge in future games without seeming to be a retcon or canonizing a choice.

which is the wrong attitude to have, since it is proven to be  very hard-impossible to get both, so drop this because you guys have too high of expectations.