637 réponses à ce sujet

[Malanek]

draken-heart wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

draken-heart wrote...
And I have said that, except that people in this thread are saying to remove it entirely and i am saying that they would only need to import the choices that fit the setting of the game. DA3, MAge-templar war so the ruler of ferelden is a given. others could be king of Orzamar and dark ritual if they can find a way to make that fit, if not the ashes fit as well somewhat.

What happens when they come to DA4 and all of a sudden some of the other choices they didn't import do matter?

However importing it isn't really a problem, thats just copying a lot of variables. Its what they do with it. And over time it will get more and more complicated. And because they don't want wildly divergent gameplay paths within a story, every choice will little to no real impact. That's what annoys me most about it. It is too complicated to do anything that isn't superficial, and a lot of genuinely interesting aspects from the past are lost unless they retcon.

And that is all you can really expect from it. Do you honestly think the whole game would change because you make this choice instead of that one?

People are so strange sometimes.

We have vastly different opinions of what strange is.

I don't know about the whole game, but yes, I expect significant change based on some things. Whether mages were granted freedom. Whether a rampant demon was set loose. Whether the essence of an old god is reborn in human form.

By taking a canon story, things like this can be explored properly. I don't feel it it negates players agency to see this even if they never did it. I have usually done multiple playthroughs trying different things out. I would rather see genuine consequences for just one of these things, than having everything feel railroaded back into the same branch of reality or ignored. In fact in some ways even if the story took the opposite decision to the one you made, you get to see consequence of your own choice by what Thedas doesn't get hit with.

[draken-heart]

Malanek999 wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

draken-heart wrote...
And I have said that, except that people in this thread are saying to remove it entirely and i am saying that they would only need to import the choices that fit the setting of the game. DA3, MAge-templar war so the ruler of ferelden is a given. others could be king of Orzamar and dark ritual if they can find a way to make that fit, if not the ashes fit as well somewhat.

What happens when they come to DA4 and all of a sudden some of the other choices they didn't import do matter?

However importing it isn't really a problem, thats just copying a lot of variables. Its what they do with it. And over time it will get more and more complicated. And because they don't want wildly divergent gameplay paths within a story, every choice will little to no real impact. That's what annoys me most about it. It is too complicated to do anything that isn't superficial, and a lot of genuinely interesting aspects from the past are lost unless they retcon.

And that is all you can really expect from it. Do you honestly think the whole game would change because you make this choice instead of that one?

People are so strange sometimes.

We have vastly different opinions of what strange is.

I don't know about the whole game, but yes, I expect significant change based on some things. Whether mages were granted freedom. Whether a rampant demon was set loose. Whether the essence of an old god is reborn in human form.

By taking a canon story, things like this can be explored properly. I don't feel it it negates players agency to see this even if they never did it. I have usually done multiple playthroughs trying different things out. I would rather see genuine consequences for just one of these things, than having everything feel railroaded back into the same branch of reality or ignored. In fact in some ways even if the story took the opposite decision to the one you made, you get to see consequence of your own choice by what Thedas doesn't get hit with.

I think it was stated that the mages never get freed, that the chantry says no, so that it out.

[Realmzmaster]

draken-heart wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

If the next game in series is with a new protagonist and you the gamer are seeing through his/her eyes why would the PC care who Hawke or the warden romanced? Unless Hawke or the Warden bare some importance on the story at hand what is the purpose of mentioning them?

The game only needs to state what is the present situation of the world state. Who is King or Queen of Ferelden? Who is king of Orzammar? Who is the First Enchanter? Does not matter who put them there unless that it has some bearing on the present other than a history lesson or it tells the PC something prevalent to the task at hand.

If Bioware wants to set canon for each and every game in the series I have no problem with that as long as the choices in game are resolved in game.

Bolded confuses me. Wouldn't you want the choices you make at least mentioned, even if they are resolved already?

I would.

Not in a subsequent game. If the choice resolves in a past game I see no reason that choice should receive a mention if it has no bearing on the  present game.

[draken-heart]

Realmzmaster wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

If the next game in series is with a new protagonist and you the gamer are seeing through his/her eyes why would the PC care who Hawke or the warden romanced? Unless Hawke or the Warden bare some importance on the story at hand what is the purpose of mentioning them?

The game only needs to state what is the present situation of the world state. Who is King or Queen of Ferelden? Who is king of Orzammar? Who is the First Enchanter? Does not matter who put them there unless that it has some bearing on the present other than a history lesson or it tells the PC something prevalent to the task at hand.

If Bioware wants to set canon for each and every game in the series I have no problem with that as long as the choices in game are resolved in game.

Bolded confuses me. Wouldn't you want the choices you make at least mentioned, even if they are resolved already?

I would.

Not in a subsequent game. If the choice resolves in a past game I see no reason that choice should receive a mention if it has no bearing on the  present game.

I think it is because I already set my expectations low enough that the lack of world changing impact from imports does not impact my decision to play agame if it is good enough. I do not expect the game to be perfect, only that I can enjoy it.

Simple enough, right?

[mr_luga]

I agree with OP on this. I am getting really annoyed with juggling saves around, and going back to Da1 to change one thing, and then having to play through DA2(Yuck) to bring it over to DA3 is going to really really ****** me off

[draken-heart]

mr_luga wrote...

I agree with OP on this. I am getting really annoyed with juggling saves around, and going back to Da1 to change one thing, and then having to play through DA2(Yuck) to bring it over to DA3 is going to really really ****** me off

Then only use one?

[draken-heart]

draken-heart wrote...

I think it is because I already set my expectations low enough that the lack of world changing impact from imports does not impact my decision to play agame if it is good enough. I do not expect the game to be perfect, only that I can enjoy it.

Simple enough, right?

Had to quote this to make sure people got it. Just lower expecations and the game's good side will show, with or without save imports.

Expecations are too high on this thread.

Modifié par draken-heart, 29 octobre 2012 - 02:12 .

[wsandista]

I just played KOTOR2 and I'm very happy that it didn't have a save import.

If not having save imports means that we will get to make choices that have world shaking consequences without worrying how Bioware will have to write a plot taking every decision into consideration and get to experience story lines that would hinge on a choice from a previous game if imports were used, I'm all for it.

For example, the OGB could lead to a very interesting plot, but since only half of the players took that option, future games will either relegate it to a small side quest or foot note, ignore it completely, or pull a Rachni Queen like ME3 did.

[draken-heart]

wsandista wrote...

I just played KOTOR2 and I'm very happy that it didn't have a save import.

If not having save imports means that we will get to make choices that have world shaking consequences without worrying how Bioware will have to write a plot taking every decision into consideration and get to experience story lines that would hinge on a choice from a previous game if imports were used, I'm all for it.

For example, the OGB could lead to a very interesting plot, but since only half of the players took that option, future games will either relegate it to a small side quest or foot note, ignore it completely, or pull a Rachni Queen like ME3 did.

Or it could not play a role at all, just so you know, does not really fit unless they can create a good storyline for Morrigan coming back, and whose to say they choose the Dark Ritual as canon if they do? maybe they choose to kill the warden instead of canoning him/her/it alive.

[wsandista]

draken-heart wrote...

wsandista wrote...

I just played KOTOR2 and I'm very happy that it didn't have a save import.

If not having save imports means that we will get to make choices that have world shaking consequences without worrying how Bioware will have to write a plot taking every decision into consideration and get to experience story lines that would hinge on a choice from a previous game if imports were used, I'm all for it.

For example, the OGB could lead to a very interesting plot, but since only half of the players took that option, future games will either relegate it to a small side quest or foot note, ignore it completely, or pull a Rachni Queen like ME3 did.

Or it could not play a role at all, just so you know, does not really fit unless they can create a good storyline for Morrigan coming back, and whose to say they choose the Dark Ritual as canon if they do? maybe they choose to kill the warden instead of canoning him/her/it alive.

That is why I said "could" not "should".

You could replace OGB with Urn of Sacred Ashes, Anvil of the Void, Lifting the werewolf curse, Ultimate Sacrifice, etc. The point remains that It gets difficult to keep tack and acknowledge these variables game after game.

I would rather have an interesting quest/plot line concerning the subjects above than simply get a variable small mention based on what a PC did in a prior game.

[The Night Haunter]

Consequences should carry over from game to game, otherwise your experience in DAO is just wiped clean to make way for a 'cannon' playthrough and that sucks. You get attached to your world that you created. Just cause DA2 had crappy import options and no world shaping choices doesnt mean a future save imported game wont. DA2 just had a super short development time and that lead to many, many problems (reused environments, lack of plot splits, etc). since DA3 has already been in development longer than DA2 and we haven't even gotten a real preview yet I'm sure these problems will be fixed.

Anyway, save imports are a good feature that I hope bioware keeps (in one form or another).

[SafetyShattered]

draken-heart wrote...

mr_luga wrote...

I agree with OP on this. I am getting really annoyed with juggling saves around, and going back to Da1 to change one thing, and then having to play through DA2(Yuck) to bring it over to DA3 is going to really really ****** me off

Then only use one?

This, if juggling saves is too hard or annoying for you just stick to like one or two different characters.

[wsandista]

ghostmessiah202 wrote...

Consequences should carry over from game to game, otherwise your experience in DAO is just wiped clean to make way for a 'cannon' playthrough and that sucks. You get attached to your world that you created. Just cause DA2 had crappy import options and no world shaping choices doesnt mean a future save imported game wont. DA2 just had a super short development time and that lead to many, many problems (reused environments, lack of plot splits, etc). since DA3 has already been in development longer than DA2 and we haven't even gotten a real preview yet I'm sure these problems will be fixed.

Anyway, save imports are a good feature that I hope bioware keeps (in one form or another).

Have you played ME3? I'm asking because the imports in that game were pretty much meaningless. Bioware doesn't have a great track record with them.

[draken-heart]

wsandista wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

wsandista wrote...

I just played KOTOR2 and I'm very happy that it didn't have a save import.

If not having save imports means that we will get to make choices that have world shaking consequences without worrying how Bioware will have to write a plot taking every decision into consideration and get to experience story lines that would hinge on a choice from a previous game if imports were used, I'm all for it.

For example, the OGB could lead to a very interesting plot, but since only half of the players took that option, future games will either relegate it to a small side quest or foot note, ignore it completely, or pull a Rachni Queen like ME3 did.

Or it could not play a role at all, just so you know, does not really fit unless they can create a good storyline for Morrigan coming back, and whose to say they choose the Dark Ritual as canon if they do? maybe they choose to kill the warden instead of canoning him/her/it alive.

That is why I said "could" not "should".

You could replace OGB with Urn of Sacred Ashes, Anvil of the Void, Lifting the werewolf curse, Ultimate Sacrifice, etc. The point remains that It gets difficult to keep tack and acknowledge these variables game after game.

I would rather have an interesting quest/plot line concerning the subjects above than simply get a variable small mention based on what a PC did in a prior game.

All of it could not fit into the game at all, so there would be no reason import it, let alone have a canon for it.

Still people have way to high an expectation for the game. Face it, no one will make the perfect game, what one person loves another will hate. End of story quit talking about this "issue" because it does not meat your ultra high expectations.

I learned the hard way not to hold expectations too high with DA2. so my expectations lowered to the point where I said "just make me a game I can enjoy." Been pleased with the results ever since.

[SilentNukee]

Whaaaatttt? This is the reason I love recent BioWare games... You can import your save.

[wsandista]

draken-heart wrote...

All of it could not fit into the game at all, so there would be no reason import it, let alone have a canon for it.

Still people have way to high an expectation for the game. Face it, no one will make the perfect game, what one person loves another will hate. End of story quit talking about this "issue" because it does not meat your ultra high expectations.

I learned the hard way not to hold expectations too high with DA2. so my expectations lowered to the point where I said "just make me a game I can enjoy." Been pleased with the results ever since.

Then Bioware shouldn't have made games that had previously met those "ultra high expectations". I'm not asking for the perfect game, I'm asking for a game that allows plenty of choices and consequences. It isn't an unreasonable expectation to expect a game that meets the quality seen in their previous titles. If imports are the reason that we can't have choices with consequence or potential plot lines have to be skimmed over, then they should go. I don't need to see the results of my choices in DAO in DA3 because I already saw them in DAO.

[draken-heart]

wsandista wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

All of it could not fit into the game at all, so there would be no reason import it, let alone have a canon for it.

Still people have way to high an expectation for the game. Face it, no one will make the perfect game, what one person loves another will hate. End of story quit talking about this "issue" because it does not meat your ultra high expectations.

I learned the hard way not to hold expectations too high with DA2. so my expectations lowered to the point where I said "just make me a game I can enjoy." Been pleased with the results ever since.

Then Bioware shouldn't have made games that had previously met those "ultra high expectations". I'm not asking for the perfect game, I'm asking for a game that allows plenty of choices and consequences. It isn't an unreasonable expectation to expect a game that meets the quality seen in their previous titles. If imports are the reason that we can't have choices with consequence or potential plot lines have to be skimmed over, then they should go. I don't need to see the results of my choices in DAO in DA3 because I already saw them in DAO.

Maybe Bioware just doesn't want to go through the trouble of making Questlines for all their canon choices so they went with imports.

Plus you didn't actually see them, you think they were there because of the ending slides which weere not true. Like with the end of DA2 Varric could know where Hawke was, but lied about it to keep his friend safe, until they show us where Hawke is and answer the question of if Varric really knew, they the issue is not resolved. Plus I personally thought there were tons of things they failed to fully resolve in origins.

Modifié par draken-heart, 29 octobre 2012 - 03:30 .

[ThePinkFoxx]

SilentNukee wrote...

Whaaaatttt? This is the reason I love recent BioWare games... You can import your save.

I completely agree!! I love hearing lore and characters refer to my previous characters.

[wsandista]

draken-heart wrote...

Maybe Bioware just doesn't want to go through the trouble of making Questlines for all their canon choices so they went with imports.

Then if it isn't even mentioned at all, what is the pint of imports? If what you import means absolutely nothing, isn't it just meaningless?

Plus you didn't actually see them, you think they were there because of the ending slides which weere not true.

In the universe that the particular PC existed in, they were true.

[draken-heart]

wsandista wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

Maybe Bioware just doesn't want to go through the trouble of making Questlines for all their canon choices so they went with imports.

Then if it isn't even mentioned at all, what is the pint of imports? If what you import means absolutely nothing, isn't it just meaningless?

Plus you didn't actually see them, you think they were there because of the ending slides which weere not true.

In the universe that the particular PC existed in, they were true.

I think Bioware actually stated those slides were just rumors. plus the Dalish slide was a bug.

Anyways, I will never hold my expectations as high as I did DA2 again, I actually got origins after it's release so had no info on it whatsoever, and thought that Bioware will do it again, the DA2 came out, It was bad is most respects (The fact that it was merely a story was my biggest problem), but I enjoyed it nonetheless, so expectations dropped to mere enjoyment, not on level of any other game.

Modifié par draken-heart, 29 octobre 2012 - 03:34 .

[The Teyrn of Whatever]

wsandista wrote...

If imports are the reason that we can't have choices with consequence or
potential plot lines have to be skimmed over, then they should go. I
don't need to see the results of my choices in DAO in DA3 because I
already saw them in DAO.

Imports have little to nothing to do with the range of choices and consequences. They shouldn't have that much to do with the main storyline either. Imports mostly allow for cameos by characters from previous games and a sidequest or two. They change some of the background information and maybe change a few of the codices.

Anyone expecting imports to create a wildly different game based on past choices has no idea how games are put together, particularly ones as complex as BioWare games. Imports provide a sense of personalization and a little colour to the world. That's all I want them to do. There is no reason to get rid of them.

I don't want some official backstory to replace the more significant choices I made in DA:O and DA II. I do not want DA III to have no import and a world in which, for example, the Warden was a human noble male warrior who romanced Morrigan, Hawke was a mage that looked like that Commander Riker-looking dude with that dumb blood smear across his nose plastered all over the promo material, Alistair became King, Harrowmont became king of Orzammar, the Warden made the ultimate sacrifice, etc. I have no problem with their being a default backstory, or a multiple choice "Create Your Own Backstory" option, or an interactive cutscene or comic that lets players make the major choices from the first two games, but I still want the OPTION to import my save files.

This "get rid of save imports" topic that keeps cropping up is fast becoming the topic I hate most on the BSN. I could be wrong, but I don't think BioWare is actually going to get rid of them.v

[The Teyrn of Whatever]

Logan Cloud wrote...

Part of me wants Bioware to abandon it, otherwise I'll have to play through DAII again, and I honestly don't want to.

I liked it, but I'm not a huge DA fan.

Why would you have to play through DA II again? DA II, ME 2 and 3 all allowed players to start from scratch. Save imports are optional. Many of the anti-save import crowd seem to know what that word means. And before anyone decides to talk down to me and tell me about how I'm missing the point, read my previous post in this thread.

[draken-heart]

The Teryn of Whatever wrote...

wsandista wrote...

If imports are the reason that we can't have choices with consequence or
potential plot lines have to be skimmed over, then they should go. I
don't need to see the results of my choices in DAO in DA3 because I
already saw them in DAO.

Imports have little to nothing to do with the range of choices and consequences. They shouldn't have that much to do with the main storyline either. Imports mostly allow for cameos by characters from previous games and a sidequest or two. They change some of the background information and maybe change a few of the codices.

Anyone expecting imports to create a wildly different game based on past choices has no idea how games are put together, particularly ones as complex as BioWare games. Imports provide a sense of personalization and a little colour to the world. That's all I want them to do. There is no reason to get rid of them.

I don't want some official backstory to replace the more significant choices I made in DA:O and DA II. I do not want DA III to have no import and a world in which, for example, the Warden was a human noble male warrior who romanced Morrigan, Hawke was a mage that looked like that Commander Riker-looking dude with that dumb blood smear across his nose plastered all over the promo material, Alistair became King, Harrowmont became king of Orzammar, the Warden made the ultimate sacrifice, etc. I have no problem with their being a default backstory, or a multiple choice "Create Your Own Backstory" option, or an interactive cutscene or comic that lets players make the major choices from the first two games, but I still want the OPTION to import my save files.

This "get rid of save imports" topic that keeps cropping up is fast becoming the topic I hate most on the BSN. I could be wrong, but I don't think BioWare is actually going to get rid of them.v

Itallics people will likely argue with you on. Plus you established the very reason people hate the import feature, that it offers nothing to the story.

Modifié par draken-heart, 29 octobre 2012 - 04:00 .