637 réponses à ce sujet

[Solmanian]

Yeah, I don't realy see the point of abandoning Save imports. It isn't a marketing ploy, it's rewarding dedicated players... I can't think of a single company other than bioware (correct me if I'm wrong) that practices savegame imports. It what made BW a great RPG developer.

P.S.
Just remembered the redproject did it for witcher 2. However it had very little effect in the game except for a couple of dialogue lines. Even your LI was retconned. In these regards the conrad verner questline in ME3 was a triomphent conclusion, making obscure side quests from the first game seem integral. Also I loved what bioware did with the golden pantalones in the BG series, and was sorry it didn't have such a thing in ME&DA. Oh well, I always have you,blood dragon armor!

[Realmzmaster]

The Teryn of Whatever wrote...

wsandista wrote...

If imports are the reason that we can't have choices with consequence or
potential plot lines have to be skimmed over, then they should go. I
don't need to see the results of my choices in DAO in DA3 because I
already saw them in DAO.

Imports have little to nothing to do with the range of choices and consequences. They shouldn't have that much to do with the main storyline either. Imports mostly allow for cameos by characters from previous games and a sidequest or two. They change some of the background information and maybe change a few of the codices.

Anyone expecting imports to create a wildly different game based on past choices has no idea how games are put together, particularly ones as complex as BioWare games. Imports provide a sense of personalization and a little colour to the world. That's all I want them to do. There is no reason to get rid of them.

I don't want some official backstory to replace the more significant choices I made in DA:O and DA II. I do not want DA III to have no import and a world in which, for example, the Warden was a human noble male warrior who romanced Morrigan, Hawke was a mage that looked like that Commander Riker-looking dude with that dumb blood smear across his nose plastered all over the promo material, Alistair became King, Harrowmont became king of Orzammar, the Warden made the ultimate sacrifice, etc. I have no problem with their being a default backstory, or a multiple choice "Create Your Own Backstory" option, or an interactive cutscene or comic that lets players make the major choices from the first two games, but I still want the OPTION to import my save files.

This "get rid of save imports" topic that keeps cropping up is fast becoming the topic I hate most on the BSN. I could be wrong, but I don't think BioWare is actually going to get rid of them.v

Then tell me how does Bioware write a story about the old god baby and have it play a major part in future games if they allow save imports from DAO. Because half of those save imports have the warden doing the US and not the DR.

The only way for Bioware to write a story that includes the OGB is to establish a canon. This choice was made a big deal because Bioware made it one of the three choices that the warden could make that dramatically affects the end of DAO. 

The other point is to completely ignore the choice which means that is a story Bioware cannot write that would have any significant impact on the future.

The problem is that if Bioware makes a canon of the OBG it invalidates player choice in one form or the other. Either the US choice is retconned out of existence or the DR never happened. The only other choice is that the OGB becomes a mention in a codex or a small sidequest that leads to nothing for those who did the DR.

That limits the stories that Bioware can tell and that is only one example.

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 29 octobre 2012 - 06:12 .

[wright1978]

wsandista wrote...

ghostmessiah202 wrote...

Consequences should carry over from game to game, otherwise your experience in DAO is just wiped clean to make way for a 'cannon' playthrough and that sucks. You get attached to your world that you created. Just cause DA2 had crappy import options and no world shaping choices doesnt mean a future save imported game wont. DA2 just had a super short development time and that lead to many, many problems (reused environments, lack of plot splits, etc). since DA3 has already been in development longer than DA2 and we haven't even gotten a real preview yet I'm sure these problems will be fixed.

Anyway, save imports are a good feature that I hope bioware keeps (in one form or another).

Have you played ME3? I'm asking because the imports in that game were pretty much meaningless. Bioware doesn't have a great track record with them.

Sorry i've a lot of issues with ME3 but attacking it for the import being meaningless is wrong as they can in particular play a huge role in both Rannoch and Genophage conclusions

[Sanunes]

draken-heart wrote...

Sanunes wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

What happens when they come to DA4 and all of a sudden some of the other choices they didn't import do matter?

However importing it isn't really a problem, thats just copying a lot of variables. Its what they do with it. And over time it will get more and more complicated. And because they don't want wildly divergent gameplay paths within a story, every choice will little to no real impact. That's what annoys me most about it. It is too complicated to do anything that isn't superficial, and a lot of genuinely interesting aspects from the past are lost unless they retcon.

I completely agree, the other thing that could happen if they picked a major plot point is they could canonize it and make people extremely upset that "they choice didn't matter" like what happened with Uldina in Mass Effect 3.

I do wish they could make a major choice have an impact on the game we are playing, but be able to converge in future games without seeming to be a retcon or canonizing a choice.

which is the wrong attitude to have, since it is proven to be  very hard-impossible to get both, so drop this because you guys have too high of expectations.

Saying what I wish would happen is completely different then what I am expecting.  

My expectation is that the import will work correctly, unlike what happened with Dragon Age 2 when some major plotpoints our choices became changed because of bugs or "future story" and canonizes that choice to something we didn't pick.  It is one thing that bothered me with Mass Effect 3 when dealing with Uldina, all that really needed to be done was mentioning that Anderson stepped down and left Uldina as ambassador and it would have been fine, but they wanted to canonize a choice that was made in the novels.

[Fast Jimmy]

To comment on a few things posted since I've been gone...


Expectations - My expectations for the import flags are low. ABYSMALLY low. However, it doesn't stop me from looking at all of the amazing stories Bioware brought to the table in previous games... and how none of those stories will be ever followed to the next step. Giving the Dwarves the means to reclaim their lost empire at the risk of d@mn!ng souls? Oh, how silly of me to think that giving a kingdom the one tool that could restore their former glory and possibly stop a Blight before it even reaches the surface would have any effect on anything again. How naive of me to want to see how discovering the most importa t religious artifact ever for a religion that is now, just a decade later, involved in a world-wide war... that's just stupid of me, obviously.

The expectations are raised because the choices were posed as world changing. If they can't show us how the world was changed, AT ALL, in future games with the import feature, but they could with a canon story, then I say for canon ahead.

Starting a fresh game for DA3 - This is, obviously, the solution. If I don't like imported saves, then I can just start a new character!

Except that suggest completely misses the point. Me starting a new game for DA3 doesn't magically mean that Bioware has created a canon where I will see actual follow through to past stories. No, it still has the same limitations to the development cycle - that the writers can't create any reference to past choices that results in anything other than the smallest of head nods, the tiniest of Codex entry modifications, the most ridiculous of cameos.

The costs, limitations and detriments of the import flags will still be present if I chose to not impor anything. I dislike the import flags not because I don't want references to my last actions... I want to remove import flags because I want the story to actually feel like I made those decisions, even if those decisions weren't the ones my character made. I'd rather my choice not be represented rather than pretending like the choice never existed in the first place.

Bioware is doing what they want, so why are we even talking - This point makes me smile. Only someone totally unfamiliar with the BSN (or forums in general) would try and make this point. People talk about things they care about. That's just the nature of the beast. That we are so fortunate here at the BSN to occasionally have devs respond to posts is really amazing, but even if they didn't, it does t stop people from wanting to discuss. And, again, assuming Bioware isn't listening and that people shouldn't discuss how they feel is a disadvantage for Bioware, who may be making assumptions on what they THINK fans are thinking, but in realty Bioware may be missing a key component to their outlook they hadn't taken into consideration.

For instance, I found in this thread that the people who want to set a canon put more emphasis on their choices that affect the world of Thedas (Anvil, Urn, Sominari, Architect) while those who want import flags care more about the character (origin, romances, companion choices). That, to me, says a lot about what Bioware could set canon, if they choose. Let personal decisions either be omitted from future games (like TES does it) or have them be reflected in small ways (like DA2 did it) and then set a canon for some of the bigger choices so that the world can react to them in substantial ways, and I think that you'd manage to keep happy (or, at least, not tick off) most people in this thread.


Sorry, just wanted to pop in for those three comments.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 29 octobre 2012 - 01:51 .

[Bernhardtbr]

Solmanian wrote...

Yeah, I don't realy see the point of abandoning Save imports. It isn't a marketing ploy, it's rewarding dedicated players... I can't think of a single company other than bioware (correct me if I'm wrong) that practices savegame imports. It what made BW a great RPG developer.

P.S.
Just remembered the redproject did it for witcher 2. However it had very little effect in the game except for a couple of dialogue lines. Even your LI was retconned. In these regards the conrad verner questline in ME3 was a triomphent conclusion, making obscure side quests from the first game seem integral. Also I loved what bioware did with the golden pantalones in the BG series, and was sorry it didn't have such a thing in ME&DA. Oh well, I always have you,blood dragon armor!

Well decisions in ME 1 had pathetically small effect on ME 2 and even less in 3, just as choices on Witcher 1 had few impact on Witcher 2. However, the narrative in Witcher 2 totally implies that the big choices will have an impact on Witcher 3 (and if it ends up as a failure just like in Mass Effect 3 I will be very pissed, but after the ending debacle I think all developers are smart now).

Meanwhile, it was never really implied that DA is a trilogy and importing saves would create quite a burden on the writers (Is Alistair king or not? Is it supposed to be relevant? How?). Don´t think it´s really necessary.

Modifié par Bernhardtbr, 29 octobre 2012 - 02:12 .

[draken-heart]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

To comment on a few things posted since I've been gone...


Expectations - My expectations for the import flags are low. ABYSMALLY low. However, it doesn't stop me from looking at all of the amazing stories Bioware brought to the table in previous games... and how none of those stories will be ever followed to the next step. Giving the Dwarves the means to reclaim their lost empire at the risk of d@mn!ng souls? Oh, how silly of me to think that giving a kingdom the one tool that could restore their former glory and possibly stop a Blight before it even reaches the surface would have any effect on anything again. How naive of me to want to see how discovering the most importa t religious artifact ever for a religion that is now, just a decade later, involved in a world-wide war... that's just stupid of me, obviously.

The expectations are raised because the choices were posed as world changing. If they can't show us how the world was changed, AT ALL, in future games with the import feature, but they could with a canon story, then I say for canon ahead.

Starting a fresh game for DA3 - This is, obviously, the solution. If I don't like imported saves, then I can just start a new character!

Except that suggest completely misses the point. Me starting a new game for DA3 doesn't magically mean that Bioware has created a canon where I will see actual follow through to past stories. No, it still has the same limitations to the development cycle - that the writers can't create any reference to past choices that results in anything other than the smallest of head nods, the tiniest of Codex entry modifications, the most ridiculous of cameos.

The costs, limitations and detriments of the import flags will still be present if I chose to not impor anything. I dislike the import flags not because I don't want references to my last actions... I want to remove import flags because I want the story to actually feel like I made those decisions, even if those decisions weren't the ones my character made. I'd rather my choice not be represented rather than pretending like the choice never existed in the first place.

Bioware is doing what they want, so why are we even talking - This point makes me smile. Only someone totally unfamiliar with the BSN (or forums in general) would try and make this point. People talk about things they care about. That's just the nature of the beast. That we are so fortunate here at the BSN to occasionally have devs respond to posts is really amazing, but even if they didn't, it does t stop people from wanting to discuss. And, again, assuming Bioware isn't listening and that people shouldn't discuss how they feel is a disadvantage for Bioware, who may be making assumptions on what they THINK fans are thinking, but in realty Bioware may be missing a key component to their outlook they hadn't taken into consideration.

For instance, I found in this thread that the people who want to set a canon put more emphasis on their choices that affect the world of Thedas (Anvil, Urn, Sominari, Architect) while those who want import flags care more about the character (origin, romances, companion choices). That, to me, says a lot about what Bioware could set canon, if they choose. Let personal decisions either be omitted from future games (like TES does it) or have them be reflected in small ways (like DA2 did it) and then set a canon for some of the bigger choices so that the world can react to them in substantial ways, and I think that you'd manage to keep happy (or, at least, not tick off) most people in this thread.


Sorry, just wanted to pop in for those three comments.

In the end, people will want what they want. Plus, why would you say anything? IT is not like they even need to import every single thing. If they do not set flags for those thing and work only with the things that make sense, thatwould be a lot of work cut out of imports becaus you are not trying to import the things that would make no sense.

Even with canon, they will not make any more mention of the past games than they do with imports, so it is not a factor in the problem.

Why not just not put anything related to story choice into the game? just import the personal choices and not have flags for the choices themselve, or canon for those?

Modifié par draken-heart, 29 octobre 2012 - 03:53 .

[Nerevar-as]

wright1978 wrote...

wsandista wrote...

ghostmessiah202 wrote...

Consequences should carry over from game to game, otherwise your experience in DAO is just wiped clean to make way for a 'cannon' playthrough and that sucks. You get attached to your world that you created. Just cause DA2 had crappy import options and no world shaping choices doesnt mean a future save imported game wont. DA2 just had a super short development time and that lead to many, many problems (reused environments, lack of plot splits, etc). since DA3 has already been in development longer than DA2 and we haven't even gotten a real preview yet I'm sure these problems will be fixed.

Anyway, save imports are a good feature that I hope bioware keeps (in one form or another).

Have you played ME3? I'm asking because the imports in that game were pretty much meaningless. Bioware doesn't have a great track record with them.

Sorry i've a lot of issues with ME3 but attacking it for the import being meaningless is wrong as they can in particular play a huge role in both Rannoch and Genophage conclusions

Rachni Queen, saving the Council, Udina/Anderson for Council, destroying the Collector Base, Loyalty mission choices and SM survivors, and any other significant choice not Geth/Quarian conflict or Genophage related you made in ME & ME2 was a cop-out and GR number. So no, I wouldn´t say BW track record is reassuring.

[draken-heart]

Realmzmaster wrote...

The Teryn of Whatever wrote...

wsandista wrote...

If imports are the reason that we can't have choices with consequence or
potential plot lines have to be skimmed over, then they should go. I
don't need to see the results of my choices in DAO in DA3 because I
already saw them in DAO.

Imports have little to nothing to do with the range of choices and consequences. They shouldn't have that much to do with the main storyline either. Imports mostly allow for cameos by characters from previous games and a sidequest or two. They change some of the background information and maybe change a few of the codices.

Anyone expecting imports to create a wildly different game based on past choices has no idea how games are put together, particularly ones as complex as BioWare games. Imports provide a sense of personalization and a little colour to the world. That's all I want them to do. There is no reason to get rid of them.

I don't want some official backstory to replace the more significant choices I made in DA:O and DA II. I do not want DA III to have no import and a world in which, for example, the Warden was a human noble male warrior who romanced Morrigan, Hawke was a mage that looked like that Commander Riker-looking dude with that dumb blood smear across his nose plastered all over the promo material, Alistair became King, Harrowmont became king of Orzammar, the Warden made the ultimate sacrifice, etc. I have no problem with their being a default backstory, or a multiple choice "Create Your Own Backstory" option, or an interactive cutscene or comic that lets players make the major choices from the first two games, but I still want the OPTION to import my save files.

This "get rid of save imports" topic that keeps cropping up is fast becoming the topic I hate most on the BSN. I could be wrong, but I don't think BioWare is actually going to get rid of them.v

Then tell me how does Bioware write a story about the old god baby and have it play a major part in future games if they allow save imports from DAO. Because half of those save imports have the warden doing the US and not the DR.

The only way for Bioware to write a story that includes the OGB is to establish a canon. This choice was made a big deal because Bioware made it one of the three choices that the warden could make that dramatically affects the end of DAO. 

The other point is to completely ignore the choice which means that is a story Bioware cannot write that would have any significant impact on the future.

The problem is that if Bioware makes a canon of the OBG it invalidates player choice in one form or the other. Either the US choice is retconned out of existence or the DR never happened. The only other choice is that the OGB becomes a mention in a codex or a small sidequest that leads to nothing for those who did the DR.

That limits the stories that Bioware can tell and that is only one example.

I can't see much reason for choice and consequence if there is no acknwledgement that the choice was made (Aka set canon). Just saying.

Another way of looking at it is "Does the OGB fit into the overall plot of the story?" No tthat I know of, so it does not need to be mentioned.

Anvil? Noone on the surface really needs to know what happened down in the deep roads, so it can be dropped as well.

Anders? You can put un a small scene where he is killed in front of the inquisitor by an arrow. Or just mentioned he died fighting templars. there, I solved that issue.

Ashes? doubt that fits into the overal plot itself, but it affects the Chantry, so perhaps if there is a very good reason for it being around.

Al-in-all, do not set flags for most of the choices as they might not fit into the overall story, and things may get better.

Modifié par draken-heart, 29 octobre 2012 - 04:16 .

[draken-heart]

Honestly, I have more of an issue with DA3 using a human protagonist instead of this mess.

[Fast Jimmy]

The resources that are consumed by playing narrative tap dancing caused by the import flags are partially to blame for there being only one race.

[Realmzmaster]

draken-heart wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

The Teryn of Whatever wrote...

wsandista wrote...

If imports are the reason that we can't have choices with consequence or
potential plot lines have to be skimmed over, then they should go. I
don't need to see the results of my choices in DAO in DA3 because I
already saw them in DAO.

Imports have little to nothing to do with the range of choices and consequences. They shouldn't have that much to do with the main storyline either. Imports mostly allow for cameos by characters from previous games and a sidequest or two. They change some of the background information and maybe change a few of the codices.

Anyone expecting imports to create a wildly different game based on past choices has no idea how games are put together, particularly ones as complex as BioWare games. Imports provide a sense of personalization and a little colour to the world. That's all I want them to do. There is no reason to get rid of them.

I don't want some official backstory to replace the more significant choices I made in DA:O and DA II. I do not want DA III to have no import and a world in which, for example, the Warden was a human noble male warrior who romanced Morrigan, Hawke was a mage that looked like that Commander Riker-looking dude with that dumb blood smear across his nose plastered all over the promo material, Alistair became King, Harrowmont became king of Orzammar, the Warden made the ultimate sacrifice, etc. I have no problem with their being a default backstory, or a multiple choice "Create Your Own Backstory" option, or an interactive cutscene or comic that lets players make the major choices from the first two games, but I still want the OPTION to import my save files.

This "get rid of save imports" topic that keeps cropping up is fast becoming the topic I hate most on the BSN. I could be wrong, but I don't think BioWare is actually going to get rid of them.v

Then tell me how does Bioware write a story about the old god baby and have it play a major part in future games if they allow save imports from DAO. Because half of those save imports have the warden doing the US and not the DR.

The only way for Bioware to write a story that includes the OGB is to establish a canon. This choice was made a big deal because Bioware made it one of the three choices that the warden could make that dramatically affects the end of DAO. 

The other point is to completely ignore the choice which means that is a story Bioware cannot write that would have any significant impact on the future.

The problem is that if Bioware makes a canon of the OBG it invalidates player choice in one form or the other. Either the US choice is retconned out of existence or the DR never happened. The only other choice is that the OGB becomes a mention in a codex or a small sidequest that leads to nothing for those who did the DR.

That limits the stories that Bioware can tell and that is only one example.

I can't see much reason for choice and consequence if there is no acknwledgement that the choice was made (Aka set canon). Just saying.

Another way of looking at it is "Does the OGB fit into the overall plot of the story?" No tthat I know of, so it does not need to be mentioned.

Anvil? Noone on the surface really needs to know what happened down in the deep roads, so it can be dropped as well.

Anders? You can put un a small scene where he is killed in front of the inquisitor by an arrow. Or just mentioned he died fighting templars. there, I solved that issue.

Ashes? doubt that fits into the overal plot itself, but it affects the Chantry, so perhaps if there is a very good reason for it being around.

Al-in-all, do not set flags for most of the choices as they might not fit into the overall story, and things may get better.

The OGB was set up by Bioware as being one of the three important choices at the end of DAO. What you are saying is that Bioware ignore the OGB which in itself sets canon that the DR never happened. Thereby invalidating that choice for the gamers who did the DR. 
So by default canon is set even if the import flag says otherwise. It will be ignored. Just like Bioware choose to ignore the fact that Leliana was dead for some gamers in DAO and brought her back to life in DA2. Bioware set canon that Leliana was alive and ignored the import flag.

If Bioware is going to go that then what is the purpose of the save import?

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 29 octobre 2012 - 08:41 .

[draken-heart]

Realmzmaster wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

The Teryn of Whatever wrote...

wsandista wrote...

If imports are the reason that we can't have choices with consequence or
potential plot lines have to be skimmed over, then they should go. I
don't need to see the results of my choices in DAO in DA3 because I
already saw them in DAO.

Imports have little to nothing to do with the range of choices and consequences. They shouldn't have that much to do with the main storyline either. Imports mostly allow for cameos by characters from previous games and a sidequest or two. They change some of the background information and maybe change a few of the codices.

Anyone expecting imports to create a wildly different game based on past choices has no idea how games are put together, particularly ones as complex as BioWare games. Imports provide a sense of personalization and a little colour to the world. That's all I want them to do. There is no reason to get rid of them.

I don't want some official backstory to replace the more significant choices I made in DA:O and DA II. I do not want DA III to have no import and a world in which, for example, the Warden was a human noble male warrior who romanced Morrigan, Hawke was a mage that looked like that Commander Riker-looking dude with that dumb blood smear across his nose plastered all over the promo material, Alistair became King, Harrowmont became king of Orzammar, the Warden made the ultimate sacrifice, etc. I have no problem with their being a default backstory, or a multiple choice "Create Your Own Backstory" option, or an interactive cutscene or comic that lets players make the major choices from the first two games, but I still want the OPTION to import my save files.

This "get rid of save imports" topic that keeps cropping up is fast becoming the topic I hate most on the BSN. I could be wrong, but I don't think BioWare is actually going to get rid of them.v

Then tell me how does Bioware write a story about the old god baby and have it play a major part in future games if they allow save imports from DAO. Because half of those save imports have the warden doing the US and not the DR.

The only way for Bioware to write a story that includes the OGB is to establish a canon. This choice was made a big deal because Bioware made it one of the three choices that the warden could make that dramatically affects the end of DAO. 

The other point is to completely ignore the choice which means that is a story Bioware cannot write that would have any significant impact on the future.

The problem is that if Bioware makes a canon of the OBG it invalidates player choice in one form or the other. Either the US choice is retconned out of existence or the DR never happened. The only other choice is that the OGB becomes a mention in a codex or a small sidequest that leads to nothing for those who did the DR.

That limits the stories that Bioware can tell and that is only one example.

I can't see much reason for choice and consequence if there is no acknwledgement that the choice was made (Aka set canon). Just saying.

Another way of looking at it is "Does the OGB fit into the overall plot of the story?" No tthat I know of, so it does not need to be mentioned.

Anvil? Noone on the surface really needs to know what happened down in the deep roads, so it can be dropped as well.

Anders? You can put un a small scene where he is killed in front of the inquisitor by an arrow. Or just mentioned he died fighting templars. there, I solved that issue.

Ashes? doubt that fits into the overal plot itself, but it affects the Chantry, so perhaps if there is a very good reason for it being around.

Al-in-all, do not set flags for most of the choices as they might not fit into the overall story, and things may get better.

The OGB was set up by Bioware as being one of the three important choices at the end of DAO. What you are saying is that Bioware ignore the OGB which in itself sets canon that the DR never happened. Thereby invalidating that choice for the gamers who did the DR. 
So by default canon is set even if the import flag says otherwise. It will be ignored. Just like Bioware choose to ignore the fact that Leliana was dead for some gamers in DAO and brought her back to life in DA2. Bioware set canon that Leliana was alive and ignored the import flag.

If Bioware is going to go that then what is the purpose of the save import?

If it is not even mentioned, is it canon that it never happened? just saying.

the purpose of save imports SHOULD be to import choices that make sense to the overall plot of the game. Let's go back to the anvil and Anders. For the Anvil, is there a logical reason for Branka to attack the surface other than supplies for the Anvil? i doubt that has any world shattering effect on Thedas, so it could be ignored. IS Anders going to change Thedas just by being the leader of a group of Rebel mages? not really.

See my point, if it does not change the overall plot or mean anything in terms of the game's overarching story, it should not have any flags set.

[Vicious]

We are only 2 games in and it's already bad. It's only going to get worse. More choices, more fan service, more money wasted on things people won't see.

See my point, if it does not change the overall plot or mean anything in terms of the game's overarching story, it should not have any flags set.

A great point, but at some point it will reach critical mass. Because of this, it's simply not worth it in the end.

[draken-heart]

Vicious wrote...

We are only 2 games in and it's already bad. It's only going to get worse. More choices, more fan service, more money wasted on things people won't see.

See my point, if it does not change the overall plot or mean anything in terms of the game's overarching story, it should not have any flags set.

A great point, but at some point it will reach critical mass. Because of this, it's simply not worth it in the end.

then use DLC with the plot based around choice. In my honest opinion the DR choiceis dumb because the only thing is you get to live, Morrigan leaves anyway, and you could easily replace the DR with having Loghain to the US

So if Bioware has to do canon, then that should be it, Loghain sacrifices himself to save Ferelden because the DR just is not worth the annoyance of the swamp witch.

[TOBY FLENDERSON]

It's the import system that is flawed. Just let us pick our choices at the beginning of DA3 because the import system always glitches on something (Nathaniel Howe, Conrad Verner, etc.).

[Peranor]

Fast Jimmy wrote...


...The expectations are raised because the choices were posed as world changing. If they can't show us how the world was changed, AT ALL, in future games with the import feature, but they could with a canon story, then I say for canon ahead...

This

[draken-heart]

anorling wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...


...The expectations are raised because the choices were posed as world changing. If they can't show us how the world was changed, AT ALL, in future games with the import feature, but they could with a canon story, then I say for canon ahead...

This

The only way it could change the world is by changing the plot, and with a set plot, i do not see any choice, canon or not, changing the world. If it was made canon that Hawke sided with the templars and that ended the rebellion, then I could see it happening, but it did not, so it did not change the world.

In the end, Bioware has two choices, ruin their paint job by ripping out the hearts of some of their fans, or start over with the next DA and rip out the hearts of their other fans. I think people just do not fully understand what is going on here, so I tried using the painting thing to kind of put the point out there clearly.

Modifié par draken-heart, 29 octobre 2012 - 10:21 .

[NomadDC]

I disagree with OP, save import is great thing that should be preserved. It just needs some improvements. And anyways, you always have an option not to import your saves, so why complain? Don't like it - don't use it.

[draken-heart]

NomadDC wrote...

I disagree with OP, save import is great thing that should be preserved. It just needs some improvements. And anyways, you always have an option not to import your saves, so why complain? Don't like it - don't use it.

Or not buying the game if you do not like the import feature. That would be better.

[Realmzmaster]

draken-heart wrote...


If it is not even mentioned, is it canon that it never happened? just saying.

the purpose of save imports SHOULD be to import choices that make sense to the overall plot of the game. Let's go back to the anvil and Anders. For the Anvil, is there a logical reason for Branka to attack the surface other than supplies for the Anvil? i doubt that has any world shattering effect on Thedas, so it could be ignored. IS Anders going to change Thedas just by being the leader of a group of Rebel mages? not really.

See my point, if it does not change the overall plot or mean anything in terms of the game's overarching story, it should not have any flags set.

Becuase the choice made in DAO  has been invalidated. While it may not affect DA3 it still leaves a important choice unresolved while the other choices were resolved that is a sticking point with many gamers who did the DR. The story has not answered that unresolved loose end. Also the potential for telling the story sometime in the future is lost unless Bioware decides to retcon the choice making it canon. 

Just like they did with Leliana. Sister Nightingale did not have to be Leliana but Bioware bowed to fan service. Bioware  retcon that she was alive ignoring the people who had killed her in the Ashes quest without any explanation.

If a dead person comes back to life I want to know why.
If they are never going to resolve theOGB  issue then gamers need to be told that it is a story Bioware will never tell. Bioware cannot just ignore it.

[Realmzmaster]

draken-heart wrote...

Vicious wrote...

We are only 2 games in and it's already bad. It's only going to get worse. More choices, more fan service, more money wasted on things people won't see.

See my point, if it does not change the overall plot or mean anything in terms of the game's overarching story, it should not have any flags set.

A great point, but at some point it will reach critical mass. Because of this, it's simply not worth it in the end.

then use DLC with the plot based around choice. In my honest opinion the DR choiceis dumb because the only thing is you get to live, Morrigan leaves anyway, and you could easily replace the DR with having Loghain to the US

So if Bioware has to do canon, then that should be it, Loghain sacrifices himself to save Ferelden because the DR just is not worth the annoyance of the swamp witch.

A great many gamers on this forum like the swamp witch and want to see how the story will play out. You just mentioned making Loghain canon which I am fine with, but I doubt those who did the US with their wardens would be happy.
It also does not answer the question of the OGB.

[Realmzmaster]

NomadDC wrote...

I disagree with OP, save import is great thing that should be preserved. It just needs some improvements. And anyways, you always have an option not to import your saves, so why complain? Don't like it - don't use it.

Because it means certain stories cannot be written unless canon is set which is the point of the OP's post. If some people import their saves where the warden did the US and other gamers import a save where the warden did the DR how can Bioware write a meaningful story about the OGB? (without setting the canon that the warden, or Alistair or Loghain did the DR). So that choice from DAO is never resolved. It was considered an important choice. That is just one example.

[Genshie]

Vicious wrote...

We are only 2 games in and it's already bad.

You mean 3. You are forgetting Awakening. Origins to Awakening was actually good in story terms.

[draken-heart]

Realmzmaster wrote...

draken-heart wrote...


If it is not even mentioned, is it canon that it never happened? just saying.

the purpose of save imports SHOULD be to import choices that make sense to the overall plot of the game. Let's go back to the anvil and Anders. For the Anvil, is there a logical reason for Branka to attack the surface other than supplies for the Anvil? i doubt that has any world shattering effect on Thedas, so it could be ignored. IS Anders going to change Thedas just by being the leader of a group of Rebel mages? not really.

See my point, if it does not change the overall plot or mean anything in terms of the game's overarching story, it should not have any flags set.

Becuase the choice made in DAO  has been invalidated. While it may not affect DA3 it still leaves a important choice unresolved while the other choices were resolved that is a sticking point with many gamers who did the DR. The story has not answered that unresolved loose end. Also the potential for telling the story sometime in the future is lost unless Bioware decides to retcon the choice making it canon. 

Just like they did with Leliana. Sister Nightingale did not have to be Leliana but Bioware bowed to fan service. Bioware  retcon that she was alive ignoring the people who had killed her in the Ashes quest without any explanation.

If a dead person comes back to life I want to know why.
If they are never going to resolve theOGB  issue then gamers need to be told that it is a story Bioware will never tell. Bioware cannot just ignore it.

yes they can, just like they can ignore all of origins, Awakening and DA2. Leave all choices out, and everyone will complain though.

And I thought that the "resolution" in witch hunt was Decent enough to solve that problem, people just want to have Morrigan back, which she should not be.

In other words, IF bioware chooses to mess with the world I shaped with my warden and my hawke, they might as well remove the decisions altogether, even any potential canon.

Modifié par draken-heart, 30 octobre 2012 - 01:42 .