637 réponses à ce sujet

[draken-heart]

Saberchic wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

Sorry, meant to say we MAY see them, but even in rumors, if they use specific pronouns like He, It will disconnect people from the world.

Point was still made, and Leliana is the only "Canon" they can work off of (even the people saying they killed her could have only meant gameplay, as in lore Leliana is a bard and a great actress, could have played dead and made it looked convincing). Any Canon warden/Hawke or choices, other than the "canon" choices from DA2, which aren't even canon anyways?

Playacting getting stabbed or fried in the dragon's lair? I don't think so. That's an awful lot of stretching to make it fit. There are also others choices that are canon besides Leliana. She was just one example.

I can see you want to cling to the save import system very badly even though it doesn't really do anything. To be honest, I don't see them doing away with it for DA3 (so rejoice! ). At some point, they will have to do away with the save imports. Too many transfers means a lot of possibilities for error (import flags reading incorrectly, corrupted files, a change in gaming consoles, etc).

Imports are good, but I would be happy with an interactive comic. Asking to have Bioware remove it is selfish as well, no matter how you spin it.

[sarcastictruths]

draken-heart wrote...

Saberchic wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

Sorry, meant to say we MAY see them, but even in rumors, if they use specific pronouns like He, It will disconnect people from the world.

Point was still made, and Leliana is the only "Canon" they can work off of (even the people saying they killed her could have only meant gameplay, as in lore Leliana is a bard and a great actress, could have played dead and made it looked convincing). Any Canon warden/Hawke or choices, other than the "canon" choices from DA2, which aren't even canon anyways?

Playacting getting stabbed or fried in the dragon's lair? I don't think so. That's an awful lot of stretching to make it fit. There are also others choices that are canon besides Leliana. She was just one example.

I can see you want to cling to the save import system very badly even though it doesn't really do anything. To be honest, I don't see them doing away with it for DA3 (so rejoice! ). At some point, they will have to do away with the save imports. Too many transfers means a lot of possibilities for error (import flags reading incorrectly, corrupted files, a change in gaming consoles, etc).

Imports are good, but I would be happy with an interactive comic. Asking to have Bioware remove it is selfish as well, no matter how you spin it.

Personally, I like the imports. However, if Bioware choices to remove the option I wont have a absolute fit and refuse to buy the game, as I have seen people say when Bioware doesn't do what they want. And I agree asking Bioware to remove that option is selfish.

[Emzamination]

sarcastictruths wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

Saberchic wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

Sorry, meant to say we MAY see them, but even in rumors, if they use specific pronouns like He, It will disconnect people from the world.

Point was still made, and Leliana is the only "Canon" they can work off of (even the people saying they killed her could have only meant gameplay, as in lore Leliana is a bard and a great actress, could have played dead and made it looked convincing). Any Canon warden/Hawke or choices, other than the "canon" choices from DA2, which aren't even canon anyways?

Playacting getting stabbed or fried in the dragon's lair? I don't think so. That's an awful lot of stretching to make it fit. There are also others choices that are canon besides Leliana. She was just one example.

I can see you want to cling to the save import system very badly even though it doesn't really do anything. To be honest, I don't see them doing away with it for DA3 (so rejoice! ). At some point, they will have to do away with the save imports. Too many transfers means a lot of possibilities for error (import flags reading incorrectly, corrupted files, a change in gaming consoles, etc).

Imports are good, but I would be happy with an interactive comic. Asking to have Bioware remove it is selfish as well, no matter how you spin it.

Personally, I like the imports. However, if Bioware choices to remove the option I wont have a absolute fit and refuse to buy the game, as I have seen people say when Bioware doesn't do what they want. And I agree asking Bioware to remove that option is selfish.

I will not buy the game and I will sale the two previous games, if there is no import option.I've invested hundreds of hours of my personal time and money into this franchise under the promise that I would shape my very own thedas (to some extent).Taking the import option out is The DA team going back on its promises and that is not something I think I can ever bring myself to ever forgive when I think of how much I invested into this story.

If bioware wants to stop the imports after 3, then they are free to do so with my blessing, but as of now, there are some open story lines from previous titles that need to be brought to a close.

Modifié par Emzamination, 25 octobre 2012 - 07:06 .

[sarcastictruths]

Emzamination wrote...

sarcastictruths wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

Saberchic wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

Sorry, meant to say we MAY see them, but even in rumors, if they use specific pronouns like He, It will disconnect people from the world.

Point was still made, and Leliana is the only "Canon" they can work off of (even the people saying they killed her could have only meant gameplay, as in lore Leliana is a bard and a great actress, could have played dead and made it looked convincing). Any Canon warden/Hawke or choices, other than the "canon" choices from DA2, which aren't even canon anyways?

Playacting getting stabbed or fried in the dragon's lair? I don't think so. That's an awful lot of stretching to make it fit. There are also others choices that are canon besides Leliana. She was just one example.

I can see you want to cling to the save import system very badly even though it doesn't really do anything. To be honest, I don't see them doing away with it for DA3 (so rejoice! ). At some point, they will have to do away with the save imports. Too many transfers means a lot of possibilities for error (import flags reading incorrectly, corrupted files, a change in gaming consoles, etc).

Imports are good, but I would be happy with an interactive comic. Asking to have Bioware remove it is selfish as well, no matter how you spin it.

Personally, I like the imports. However, if Bioware choices to remove the option I wont have a absolute fit and refuse to buy the game, as I have seen people say when Bioware doesn't do what they want. And I agree asking Bioware to remove that option is selfish.

I will not buy the game and I will sale the two previous games, if there is no import option.I've invested hundreds of hours of my personal time and money into this franchise under the promise that I would shape my very own thedas (to some extent).Taking the import option out is The DA team going back on its promises and that is not something I think I can ever bring myself to ever forgive when I think of how much I invested into this story.

If bioware wants to stop the imports after 3, then they are free to do so with my blessing, but as of now, there are some open story lines from previous titles that need to be brought to a close.

You do have a point there. I personally look at the Dragon age series as a book series where all the problem in the first game isn't nessacary solved in the second game ect. Look at The Game of Throne series for example. The issue of who will be King of the seven Kingdom isn't solved in the first book nor is it solved in the second. It is an ongoing issue throughout several of the books. I'm not saying I wouldn't be upset if the option to import a save file wasn't included. I would. It just isn't a deal breaker for me.

[Maria Caliban]

draken-heart wrote...

The only way that they can remove save imports, set a canon of choices and make the majority of the people happy, is if the warden and Hawke were never mentioned or seen in three, but they will be mentioned and the inquisitor will see them, so they cannot do that unless they want to anger their fans.

There's no indication that the Warden and Hawke 'will be mentioned and the inquisitor will see them.'

I'm not sure where you got that idea.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 25 octobre 2012 - 07:26 .

[draken-heart]

Maria Caliban wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

The only way that they can remove save imports, set a canon of choices and make the majority of the people happy, is if the warden and Hawke were never mentioned or seen in three, but they will be mentioned and the inquisitor will see them, so they cannot do that unless they want to anger their fans.

There's no indication that the Warden and Hawke 'will be mentioned and the inquisitor will see them.'

I'm not sure where you got that idea.

They "may be in the game"  according to Mike

Mike Laidlaw wrote:Since I’m in a sharing mood, I will put this out there: our intention is that for each major release of Dragon Age, you will take up the mantle of a new character. This does not mean your old character may never appear in future games, but as far as the core protagonist goes, if there is a DA III, it will very likely be neither Hawke nor The Warden.We want to keep the series about the time and place, rather than about any singular character. While I know not everyone prefers that approach, I believe it’s perfectly valid, especially if certain plans of ours to shore up world consistency (import bugs really bother me!) come to fruition, which I believe they will.

the bolded is where I got the idea, as they may appear, just not as the protagonist.. But this is not the thread for this topic, plus I used it to get people's attention, and it worked. 

I am getting off-topic though, so hop to it, want to see more complaints about save imports and how anything that allows playersto make the world the way they want it binds the hands of the developers.

Modifié par draken-heart, 25 octobre 2012 - 08:05 .

[MillKill]

sarcastictruths wrote...

The arguments against including save imports seems to be various forms of the save import has very little or no impact on the next installment of the game. However, that is besides the point, whatever ones reasoning for wanting the save import exclude bioware gives you that option. I believe its only fair to include the option to import a save file if that is what you wish.

You have missed the point entirely. Removing the import means meaningful consequences, development resources that aren't wasted on pointless cameos, and writers that aren't handicapped by trying to accomodate everyone's choices. Telling someone not to use it will not solve these problems inherent in including imports.

Some of us would like for good potential plotlines not to be removed or reduced in size and importance because they won't be possible in every savegame. The benefits of save imports are the irrelevant cameos, slightly altered lines, and tiny sidequests acknowledging your choices. The costs far outweigh those and will be there if the import feature is kept regardless of whether or not a player actually uses the feature. The "Don't like, don't use" argument do not in any way address these problems. 

Choices that should be big like Fereldan's rulership, Orzammar's king, the urn, and the Dark Ritual are made inconsequential by including imports. If imports are kept, your previous choices will not matter.

Modifié par MillKill, 25 octobre 2012 - 08:15 .

[draken-heart]

MillKill wrote...

sarcastictruths wrote...

The arguments against including save imports seems to be various forms of the save import has very little or no impact on the next installment of the game. However, that is besides the point, whatever ones reasoning for wanting the save import exclude bioware gives you that option. I believe its only fair to include the option to import a save file if that is what you wish.

You have missed the point entirely. Removing the import means meaningful consequences, development resources that aren't wasted on pointless cameos, and writers that aren't handicapped by trying to accomodate everyone's choices. Telling someone not to use it will not solve these problems inherent in including imports.

Some of us would like for good potential plotlines not to be removed or reduced in size and importance because they won't be possible in every savegame. The benefits of save imports are the irrelevant cameos, slightly altered lines, and tiny sidequests acknowledging your choices. The costs far outweigh those and will be there if the import feature is kept regardless of whether or not a player actually uses the feature. The "Don't like, don't use" argument do not in any way address these problems. 

Choices that should be big like Fereldan's rulership, Orzammar's king, the urn, and the Dark Ritual are made inconsequential by including imports. If imports are kept, your previous choices will not matter.

Question: HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT?!?!?!

just because they meant nothing in 2 does not mean they will be the same in three. ME is a big example of this, choices that were imported into ME2 from ME1 meant barely anything, but in three they made a huge difference in the plot.

[MillKill]

draken-heart wrote...

MillKill wrote...

sarcastictruths wrote...

The arguments against including save imports seems to be various forms of the save import has very little or no impact on the next installment of the game. However, that is besides the point, whatever ones reasoning for wanting the save import exclude bioware gives you that option. I believe its only fair to include the option to import a save file if that is what you wish.

You have missed the point entirely. Removing the import means meaningful consequences, development resources that aren't wasted on pointless cameos, and writers that aren't handicapped by trying to accomodate everyone's choices. Telling someone not to use it will not solve these problems inherent in including imports.

Some of us would like for good potential plotlines not to be removed or reduced in size and importance because they won't be possible in every savegame. The benefits of save imports are the irrelevant cameos, slightly altered lines, and tiny sidequests acknowledging your choices. The costs far outweigh those and will be there if the import feature is kept regardless of whether or not a player actually uses the feature. The "Don't like, don't use" argument do not in any way address these problems. 

Choices that should be big like Fereldan's rulership, Orzammar's king, the urn, and the Dark Ritual are made inconsequential by including imports. If imports are kept, your previous choices will not matter.

Question: HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT?!?!?!

just because they meant nothing in 2 does not mean they will be the same in three. ME is a big example of this, choices that were imported into ME2 from ME1 meant barely anything, but in three they made a huge difference in the plot.

Huge difference? The Rachni, Collector base, genophage data, Heretic decision, Killing/saving the council were all rendered inconsequential. The big decisions didn't matter. They had the same impact as the little ones: cameos and slightly altered dialogue. This is exactly my point. Big decisions that should have a huge impact on the plot are rendered meaningless because they will never get the reaction they deserve.

The only major decision that had serious consequences was Kaidan/Ashley. Everything else was pushed to the side and given a few lines. The devs will not make enormous changes to the plot, even if certain decisions (such as the dark ritual) probably should change it immensely. Bioware can't make a dozen games for the price of one, which is what making significant reactivity to important decisions would require.

Modifié par MillKill, 25 octobre 2012 - 08:29 .

[draken-heart]

MillKill wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

MillKill wrote...

sarcastictruths wrote...

The arguments against including save imports seems to be various forms of the save import has very little or no impact on the next installment of the game. However, that is besides the point, whatever ones reasoning for wanting the save import exclude bioware gives you that option. I believe its only fair to include the option to import a save file if that is what you wish.

You have missed the point entirely. Removing the import means meaningful consequences, development resources that aren't wasted on pointless cameos, and writers that aren't handicapped by trying to accomodate everyone's choices. Telling someone not to use it will not solve these problems inherent in including imports.

Some of us would like for good potential plotlines not to be removed or reduced in size and importance because they won't be possible in every savegame. The benefits of save imports are the irrelevant cameos, slightly altered lines, and tiny sidequests acknowledging your choices. The costs far outweigh those and will be there if the import feature is kept regardless of whether or not a player actually uses the feature. The "Don't like, don't use" argument do not in any way address these problems. 

Choices that should be big like Fereldan's rulership, Orzammar's king, the urn, and the Dark Ritual are made inconsequential by including imports. If imports are kept, your previous choices will not matter.

Question: HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT?!?!?!

just because they meant nothing in 2 does not mean they will be the same in three. ME is a big example of this, choices that were imported into ME2 from ME1 meant barely anything, but in three they made a huge difference in the plot.

Huge difference? The Rachni, Collector base, genophage data, Heretic decision, Killing/saving the council were all rendered inconsequential. The big decisions didn't matter. They had the same impact as the little ones: cameos and slightly altered dialogue. This is exactly my point. Big decisions that should have a huge impact on the plot are rendered meaningless because they will never get the reaction they deserve.

The only major decision that had serious consequences was Kaidan/Ashley. Everything else was pushed to the side and given a few lines. The devs will not make enormous changes to the plot, even if certain decisions (such as the dark ritual) probably should change it immensely. Bioware can't make a dozen games for the price of one, which is what making significant reactivity to important decisions would require.

fine let them make a set of canon choice and ruin all their fans and see how many games they sell on the title alone. as soon as it gets out that Bioware  stabbed its fans in the back and mad a set of canon choice that noone will likely choose, people will sell their DA games because Continuity is what Bioware is all about.

DA 3 will be the same no matter what import or no, that is Bioware for you, giving the gamers relatively the same experience for the game, altering it to account for choices, you cannot expect every choice you make to have this world changing impact every game, that is just how it is.

Modifié par draken-heart, 25 octobre 2012 - 08:42 .

[sarcastictruths]

draken-heart wrote...

MillKill wrote...

sarcastictruths wrote...

The arguments against including save imports seems to be various forms of the save import has very little or no impact on the next installment of the game. However, that is besides the point, whatever ones reasoning for wanting the save import exclude bioware gives you that option. I believe its only fair to include the option to import a save file if that is what you wish.

You have missed the point entirely. Removing the import means meaningful consequences, development resources that aren't wasted on pointless cameos, and writers that aren't handicapped by trying to accomodate everyone's choices. Telling someone not to use it will not solve these problems inherent in including imports.

Some of us would like for good potential plotlines not to be removed or reduced in size and importance because they won't be possible in every savegame. The benefits of save imports are the irrelevant cameos, slightly altered lines, and tiny sidequests acknowledging your choices. The costs far outweigh those and will be there if the import feature is kept regardless of whether or not a player actually uses the feature. The "Don't like, don't use" argument do not in any way address these problems. 

Choices that should be big like Fereldan's rulership, Orzammar's king, the urn, and the Dark Ritual are made inconsequential by including imports. If imports are kept, your previous choices will not matter.

Question: HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT?!?!?!

just because they meant nothing in 2 does not mean they will be the same in three. ME is a big example of this, choices that were imported into ME2 from ME1 meant barely anything, but in three they made a huge difference in the plot.

Exactly, how do you know that the choices you make in Origins or even Dragon age 2 won't have an impact on future installment of the game. I haven't played Mass effect 1. It's not available on the playstation, at least not at this moment. There is talk about it coming to the playstation, and I plan on buying it, playing it, and using the save import for all the games. And with multiple play throughs. I will see how much or how little my choices from Mass effect one will impact the other two games.

You can say what you want. That I am missing the point. That the storyline would be increased if the save import was not included, and maybe you are right. Who knows. It's just speculation at this moment. However, I do believe, and this is my personal opinion, that Bioware will address those choices that will have the greatest impact even in the default imports ( the one that Bioware will provide for you, and not the one you can upload yourself)

Futuremore, it is in my personal opinion that those who wish to do away with the upload option is just upset that 'an important choice' they made in Dragon Age: Origins was not address in the manner they desired in Dragon Age 2.  I said in a pervious post on this thread that I believe that Dragon age is like a book series in which a problem isn't solved in the next installment of the series, or in the case of choices the conquences of that choice doesn't always have an profound  impact.

Modifié par sarcastictruths, 25 octobre 2012 - 08:42 .

[Maria Caliban]

draken-heart wrote...

fine let them make a set of canon choice and ruin all their fans and see how many games they sell on the title alone. as soon as it gets out that Bioware  stabbed its fans in the back and mad a set of canon choice that noone will likely choose, people will sell their DA games because Continuity is what Bioware is all about.

What continuity was there between Baldur's Gate and Baldur's Gate II?

If you killed Minsc in BG I, he was alive and your best buddy in BG II.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 25 octobre 2012 - 08:45 .

[MillKill]

draken-heart wrote...


fine let them make a set of canon choice and ruin all their fans and see how many games they sell on the title alone. as soon as it gets out that Bioware  stabbed its fans in the back and mad a set of canon choice that noone will likely choose, people will sell their DA games because Continuity is what Bioware is all about.

Canon choices will not "ruin the fans." BG2 even had you playing as the same character as BG1 and did not import choices. It's commonly held up as Bioware's best.

Removing the import does not mean Bioware "stabed fans in the back." It means they can deliver a higher quality product to all the fans, even those that won't see their choices reflected in-game.

Continuity is not what Bioware is all about. Exactly 3 Bioware games have allowed choices to be imported. Not one Bioware game in more than a decade before Mass Effect 2 allowed choices from a previous game to be recognized.  

How do you know fans will jump ship if Bioware makes certain choices canon? That is not what happened in Fallout 2 or Fallout New Vegas. Those games are regarded as the best in the series.

[draken-heart]

Maria Caliban wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

fine let them make a set of canon choice and ruin all their fans and see how many games they sell on the title alone. as soon as it gets out that Bioware  stabbed its fans in the back and mad a set of canon choice that noone will likely choose, people will sell their DA games because Continuity is what Bioware is all about.

What continuity was there between Baldur's Gate and Baldur's Gate II?

If you killed Minsc in BG I, he was alive and your best buddy in BG II.

point is Bioware with ME and DA had imports, those imports do not have a profund impact because that was how importing was developed, showing that a decision was made but not giving it focus so that players can focus oon the game they are playing.

In DA2, did we really need to know what was going on in Ferelden after Alistair/Anora was on the throne? NO, so they did not focus on it, or as it has been said 'give it a profound effect'.

[draken-heart]

MillKill wrote...

draken-heart wrote...


fine let them make a set of canon choice and ruin all their fans and see how many games they sell on the title alone. as soon as it gets out that Bioware  stabbed its fans in the back and mad a set of canon choice that noone will likely choose, people will sell their DA games because Continuity is what Bioware is all about.

Canon choices will not "ruin the fans." BG2 even had you playing as the same character as BG1 and did not import choices. It's commonly held up as Bioware's best.

Removing the import does not mean Bioware "stabed fans in the back." It means they can deliver a higher quality product to all the fans, even those that won't see their choices reflected in-game.

Continuity is not what Bioware is all about. Exactly 3 Bioware games have allowed choices to be imported. Not one Bioware game in more than a decade before Mass Effect 2 allowed choices from a previous game to be recognized.  

How do you know fans will jump ship if Bioware makes certain choices canon? That is not what happened in Fallout 2 or Fallout New Vegas. Those games are regarded as the best in the series.

fine, let me rephrase "Continuity is what DA and ME are all about". and as I said, they did not have a profound effect because they did not have muuch of an effect on Kirkwall in DA2. If the game was still set in Ferelden, then I would agree with you. BUT, it wasn't therefore, how it was presented was fine to me.

By the way, in New vegas, nothing from three is canon, because it is not focused on, Same for 2 and 1 in Fallout 3, they can have a set of canon, because the scenes for each game is more different than the previous. in DA and ME the Setting is different but in the same timeframe, therefore continuity is important. If it was 150 years after go ahead make a vague canon that no one will care about. But in the scope of the setting, I would say Imports should at least be an option to look at.

Modifié par draken-heart, 25 octobre 2012 - 09:06 .

[sarcastictruths]

Maria Caliban wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

fine let them make a set of canon choice and ruin all their fans and see how many games they sell on the title alone. as soon as it gets out that Bioware  stabbed its fans in the back and mad a set of canon choice that noone will likely choose, people will sell their DA games because Continuity is what Bioware is all about.

What continuity was there between Baldur's Gate and Baldur's Gate II?

If you killed Minsc in BG I, he was alive and your best buddy in BG II.

I haven't played the Baldur's Gate series. The first bioware game I got into was Dragon Age: Origins. However, that whole thing sounds similar to what happens to Zevran or Anders. If you kill them in pervious games they show up in next one. And I will be the first to admit that the save import doesn't have problems. You are left going 'what the heck' when a character you killed in a previous games shows up alive, and I could only imagine that feeling is increased when that character shows up as your best buddy. Through, whose to say that characer whom you killed actually died. People are 'murdered' by others all the time, and they don't actually die. In my mind that what happens when you kill such and such character and they show up in the next game.

[sarcastictruths]

draken-heart wrote...

MillKill wrote...

draken-heart wrote...


fine let them make a set of canon choice and ruin all their fans and see how many games they sell on the title alone. as soon as it gets out that Bioware  stabbed its fans in the back and mad a set of canon choice that noone will likely choose, people will sell their DA games because Continuity is what Bioware is all about.

Canon choices will not "ruin the fans." BG2 even had you playing as the same character as BG1 and did not import choices. It's commonly held up as Bioware's best.

Removing the import does not mean Bioware "stabed fans in the back." It means they can deliver a higher quality product to all the fans, even those that won't see their choices reflected in-game.

Continuity is not what Bioware is all about. Exactly 3 Bioware games have allowed choices to be imported. Not one Bioware game in more than a decade before Mass Effect 2 allowed choices from a previous game to be recognized.  

How do you know fans will jump ship if Bioware makes certain choices canon? That is not what happened in Fallout 2 or Fallout New Vegas. Those games are regarded as the best in the series.

fine, let me rephrase "Continuity is what DA and ME are all about". and as I said, they did not have a profound effect because they did not have muuch of an effect on Kirkwall in DA2. If the game was still set in Ferelden, then I would agree with you. BUT, it wasn't therefore, how it was presented was fine to me.

By the way, in New vegas, nothing from three is canon, because it is not focused on, Same for 2 and 1 in Fallout 3, they can have a set of canon, because the scenes for each game is more different than the previous. in DA and ME the Setting is different but in the same timeframe, therefore continuity is important. If it was 150 years after go ahead make a vague canon that no one will care about. But in the scope of the setting, I would say Imports should at least be an option to look at.

Agreed.

[draken-heart]

draken-heart wrote...

MillKill wrote...

draken-heart wrote...


fine let them make a set of canon choice and ruin all their fans and see how many games they sell on the title alone. as soon as it gets out that Bioware  stabbed its fans in the back and mad a set of canon choice that noone will likely choose, people will sell their DA games because Continuity is what Bioware is all about.

Canon choices will not "ruin the fans." BG2 even had you playing as the same character as BG1 and did not import choices. It's commonly held up as Bioware's best.

Removing the import does not mean Bioware "stabed fans in the back." It means they can deliver a higher quality product to all the fans, even those that won't see their choices reflected in-game.

Continuity is not what Bioware is all about. Exactly 3 Bioware games have allowed choices to be imported. Not one Bioware game in more than a decade before Mass Effect 2 allowed choices from a previous game to be recognized.  

How do you know fans will jump ship if Bioware makes certain choices canon? That is not what happened in Fallout 2 or Fallout New Vegas. Those games are regarded as the best in the series.

fine, let me rephrase "Continuity is what DA and ME are all about". and as I said, they did not have a profound effect because they did not have muuch of an effect on Kirkwall in DA2. If the game was still set in Ferelden, then I would agree with you. BUT, it wasn't therefore, how it was presented was fine to me.

By the way, in New vegas, nothing from three is canon, because it is not focused on, Same for 2 and 1 in Fallout 3, they can have a set of canon, because the scenes for each game is more different than the previous. in DA and ME the Setting is different but in the same timeframe, therefore continuity is important. If it was 150 years after go ahead make a vague canon that no one will care about. But in the scope of the setting, I would say Imports should at least be an option to look at.

If you guys still do not get it, I will say it  plainly: I thoroughly enjoyed DA2, despite it's flaws and do not blame the save import for "ruining" my choices, because I knew they would not have a profound effect on the immediate story, which was hawke's rise to power in Kirkwall.

[Dutchess]

It would have been fine to remove them if the developpers had not explicitly hammered on YOUR CHOICES WILL MATTER. If it is too difficult, then they should have known better in the first place and not have promised it. Now I expect my previous games to be imported and to have an impact on the world in the next game.

[MillKill]

draken-heart wrote...


fine, let me rephrase "Continuity is what DA and ME are all about". and as I said, they did not have a profound effect because they did not have muuch of an effect on Kirkwall in DA2. If the game was still set in Ferelden, then I would agree with you. BUT, it wasn't therefore, how it was presented was fine to me.

By the way, in New vegas, nothing from three is canon, because it is not focused on, Same for 2 and 1 in Fallout 3, they can have a set of canon, because the scenes for each game is more different than the previous. in DA and ME the Setting is different but in the same timeframe, therefore continuity is important. If it was 150 years after go ahead make a vague canon that no one will care about. But in the scope of the setting, I would say Imports should at least be an option to look at.

I think that it's fair to say that continuity is what Mass Effect was all about. But big choices in that series almost univerally proved to have no real impact, robbing that choice of any degree of meaninfulness. Even in a series all about continuity, it couldn't be done right.

I would strongly diagree on Dragon Age. It was rather obviously shoehorned in, judging by the plethora of bugs, smaller number of choices acknowledged than in ME,  even lesser degree of importance for those choices than in ME, and focus on a different protagonist in each game. 

Fallout New Vegas established that the Wasteland Survival Guide was written in 3. Fallout New Vegas and Fallout 2's plots could not exist without establishing that the choice to establish the NCR from the first game was was canon. It also assumes that The Chosen One was male and his son became the head of The Bishop crime family. It established that Marcus's survival is canon . It establishes that Cassidy was a companion. It establishes that Doctor Henry's survival is canon, etc... The games made a variety of canon decisions for previous games and are stronger for it. 

Somehow, despite ignoring the choices that players made in previous games, The Fallout games are still great. It's almost like ignoring your decisions in a previous game isn't really that big of a deal and allows the devs to devote their time to things that actually matter, such as making the game better.

Modifié par MillKill, 25 octobre 2012 - 09:17 .

[sarcastictruths]

draken-heart wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

MillKill wrote...

draken-heart wrote...


fine let them make a set of canon choice and ruin all their fans and see how many games they sell on the title alone. as soon as it gets out that Bioware  stabbed its fans in the back and mad a set of canon choice that noone will likely choose, people will sell their DA games because Continuity is what Bioware is all about.

Canon choices will not "ruin the fans." BG2 even had you playing as the same character as BG1 and did not import choices. It's commonly held up as Bioware's best.

Removing the import does not mean Bioware "stabed fans in the back." It means they can deliver a higher quality product to all the fans, even those that won't see their choices reflected in-game.

Continuity is not what Bioware is all about. Exactly 3 Bioware games have allowed choices to be imported. Not one Bioware game in more than a decade before Mass Effect 2 allowed choices from a previous game to be recognized.  

How do you know fans will jump ship if Bioware makes certain choices canon? That is not what happened in Fallout 2 or Fallout New Vegas. Those games are regarded as the best in the series.

fine, let me rephrase "Continuity is what DA and ME are all about". and as I said, they did not have a profound effect because they did not have muuch of an effect on Kirkwall in DA2. If the game was still set in Ferelden, then I would agree with you. BUT, it wasn't therefore, how it was presented was fine to me.

By the way, in New vegas, nothing from three is canon, because it is not focused on, Same for 2 and 1 in Fallout 3, they can have a set of canon, because the scenes for each game is more different than the previous. in DA and ME the Setting is different but in the same timeframe, therefore continuity is important. If it was 150 years after go ahead make a vague canon that no one will care about. But in the scope of the setting, I would say Imports should at least be an option to look at.

If you guys still do not get it, I will say it  plainly: I thoroughly enjoyed DA2, despite it's flaws and do not blame the save import for "ruining" my choices, because I knew they would not have a profound effect on the immediate story, which was hawke's rise to power in Kirkwall.

Personally, I think that is something that people miss that Dragon Age 2 was Hawke's rise to power, and not every choice made in Origins will have a profound impact on his/her rise.

[MillKill]

sarcastictruths wrote...


I haven't played the Baldur's Gate series. The first bioware game I got into was Dragon Age: Origins. However, that whole thing sounds similar to what happens to Zevran or Anders. If you kill them in pervious games they show up in next one. And I will be the first to admit that the save import doesn't have problems. You are left going 'what the heck' when a character you killed in a previous games shows up alive, and I could only imagine that feeling is increased when that character shows up as your best buddy. Through, whose to say that characer whom you killed actually died. People are 'murdered' by others all the time, and they don't actually die. In my mind that what happens when you kill such and such character and they show up in the next game.

No. That is not what happened. It was not a bug. There was no choice import feature. A set canon was made. Characters that died came back. Characters that you might never have used in 1 were made part of your canon party. 

If Bioware had actually tried to accomodate your choices, great characters like Edwin, Viconia, Minsc, Jaheira, and Imoen could never have been made into important parts of the sequel since they could all die in 1. A set canon made the game vastly better than trying not to hurt anyone's feelings by accomodating everybody's choices.

Modifié par MillKill, 25 octobre 2012 - 09:22 .

[draken-heart]

MillKill wrote...

draken-heart wrote...


fine, let me rephrase "Continuity is what DA and ME are all about". and as I said, they did not have a profound effect because they did not have muuch of an effect on Kirkwall in DA2. If the game was still set in Ferelden, then I would agree with you. BUT, it wasn't therefore, how it was presented was fine to me.

By the way, in New vegas, nothing from three is canon, because it is not focused on, Same for 2 and 1 in Fallout 3, they can have a set of canon, because the scenes for each game is more different than the previous. in DA and ME the Setting is different but in the same timeframe, therefore continuity is important. If it was 150 years after go ahead make a vague canon that no one will care about. But in the scope of the setting, I would say Imports should at least be an option to look at.

I think that it's fair to say that continuity is what Mass Effect was all about. But big choices in that series almost univerally proved to have no real impact, robbing that choice of any degree of meaninfulness. Even in a series all about continuity, it couldn't be done right.

I would strongly diagree on Dragon Age. It was rather obviously shoehorned in, judging by the plethora of bugs, smaller number of choices acknowledged than in ME,  even lesser degree of importance for those choices than in ME, and focus on a different protagonist in each game. 

Fallout New Vegas established that the Wasteland Survival Guide was written in 3. Fallout New Vegas and Fallout 2's plots could not exist without establishing that the choice to establish the NCR from the first game was was canon. It also assumes that The Chosen One was male and his son became the head of The Bishop crime family. It established that Marcus's survival is canon . It establishes that Cassidy was a companion. It establishes that Doctor Henry's survival is canon, etc... The games made a variety of canon decisions for previous games and are stronger for it. 

Somehow, despite ignoring the choices that players made in previous games, The Fallout games are still great. It's almost like ignoring your decisions in a previous game isn't really that big of a deal and allows the devs to devote their time to things that actually matter, such as making the game better.

You cannot really bring Behtesda games into this conversation, as they are two separate companies. And bladur's Gate is old, older than Bioware even thinking of Imports for their games.

Try again to make me realize that save imports, or anything relating to giving players the power to make the world is  a bad thing.

[sarcastictruths]

MillKill wrote...

sarcastictruths wrote...


I haven't played the Baldur's Gate series. The first bioware game I got into was Dragon Age: Origins. However, that whole thing sounds similar to what happens to Zevran or Anders. If you kill them in pervious games they show up in next one. And I will be the first to admit that the save import doesn't have problems. You are left going 'what the heck' when a character you killed in a previous games shows up alive, and I could only imagine that feeling is increased when that character shows up as your best buddy. Through, whose to say that characer whom you killed actually died. People are 'murdered' by others all the time, and they don't actually die. In my mind that what happens when you kill such and such character and they show up in the next game.

No. That is not what happened. It was not a bug. There was no choice import feature. A set canon was made. Characters that died came back. Characters that you might never have used in 1 were made part of your canon party. 

If Bioware had actually tried to accomodate your choices, great characters like Edwin, Viconia, Minsc, Jaheira, and Imoen could never have been made into important parts of the sequel since they could all die in 1. A set canon made the game vastly better than trying not to hurt anyone's feelings by accomodating everybody's choices.

 
Like I said I never played that game so I wasn't certain how the save import worked, or even if it had one. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

[draken-heart]

sarcastictruths wrote...

MillKill wrote...

sarcastictruths wrote...


I haven't played the Baldur's Gate series. The first bioware game I got into was Dragon Age: Origins. However, that whole thing sounds similar to what happens to Zevran or Anders. If you kill them in pervious games they show up in next one. And I will be the first to admit that the save import doesn't have problems. You are left going 'what the heck' when a character you killed in a previous games shows up alive, and I could only imagine that feeling is increased when that character shows up as your best buddy. Through, whose to say that characer whom you killed actually died. People are 'murdered' by others all the time, and they don't actually die. In my mind that what happens when you kill such and such character and they show up in the next game.

No. That is not what happened. It was not a bug. There was no choice import feature. A set canon was made. Characters that died came back. Characters that you might never have used in 1 were made part of your canon party. 

If Bioware had actually tried to accomodate your choices, great characters like Edwin, Viconia, Minsc, Jaheira, and Imoen could never have been made into important parts of the sequel since they could all die in 1. A set canon made the game vastly better than trying not to hurt anyone's feelings by accomodating everybody's choices.

 
Like I said I never played that game so I wasn't certain how the save import worked, or even if it had one. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

Ignore BG, It was great but before this debate so i say it has no meaning due to timeframe.