10 réponses à ce sujet

[RogeSoja]

 This one is just a question, though.

I just got to Lothering and I decided it would be fun to rock Morrigan as a shapeshifter. I already got a line on the talents I want (something I'm tentatively calling the MindBJ), so now I just need to figure out how I'm going to spread her attributes.

Problem is, I keep seeing posts that DA:O has this bug where the Bear/Spider forms use Strength for determining damage versus Spellpower/Magic. I was planning on giving Morrigan just enough Magic to unlock the spells I want and then piling everything else into Strength and Dexterity, with enough left over for 20 Constitution. The plan is to get her up to where I can take advantage of her Overwhelm as well as Dog's Overwhelm. Of course, all the posts I'm seeing saying that bug is there are from years and years ago, and I have just enough faith in EAWare to believe that the bug got fixed between now and then.

So, if a nice friendly Samaritan could go ahead and confirm this for me before I FUBAR Morrigan into a Blood Mage, I'd greatly appreciate that.

No, I'm not making a Shapeshifter from scratch, he's going Arcane Warrior. Although it's funny imagining him romancing Morrigan and making some hot Spider-on-Spider action.

[Blazomancer]

Bear form uses Strength while Spider uses both Strength and Dex(for Poison Spit). Strength, dex and constitution of the shapeshifted forms will scale with increasing spellpower. But that scaling is kind of slow. So, if the character is going to spend most of the time in shapeshifted form, it is better to distribute evenly in strength, dexterity and magic(for Flying Swarm), or whatever attribute is relevant to the shape that the character is going to use most.
The thing is when the attribute value (str, dex and con) in unshifted form are more than the calculated attributes of the shapeshifted form (which is determined by the shapeshifter's spellpower), then those are not replaced.

Edit: So, to answer your question, yes, it is still as it was before, although I'm not sure if this should be called a bug. It simply seems to be a balancing mechanism.

Modifié par Blazomancer, 21 octobre 2012 - 05:44 .

[keeneaow]

Here is expanded shapeshifting, include High dragon form, blight wolf etc,
better than the utter junk original, but still not as good as AW
http://dragonage.nexusmods.com/mods/91

Unlike other arts, you earn your skills by kills in this mod, so she can spend her
ability points elsewhere

Modifié par keeneaow, 21 octobre 2012 - 08:27 .

[RogeSoja]

Thanks!

[zenrockoutkast]

Isn't it better to just boost magic, though? I mean, according to this guide: http://dragonage.wik...hifter_Research
You essentially get three to four points for your shifted forms per point in magic. I mean, if you just boosted your magic score you could have 18-28 str and 30-34 dex at 64 magic, which is around where most of my mages end up anyways. I know that's not great, but it seems more effective than boosting str and dex individually, especially if you still use other spells as you get the stat boost for your forms and the magic boost that makes your spells more effective, or am I off base in this thinking?

[keeneaow]

I'm guessing if you take shapeshifter, you are doing it for some kind of rolegame,
cause it ain't useful in any shape or form in battle.
I used expanded shapeshifter a build ago or so, my intention was to use shapeshift
in the one single situation where arcane warrior is not king: against debuffers

But guess what, the shapeshift is also a buff that can and was debuffed,
and so the whole thing is inferior in every way to anything else,
fight wise

Modifié par keeneaow, 02 novembre 2012 - 01:24 .

[Blazomancer]

zenrockoutkast wrote...

Isn't it better to just boost magic, though? I mean, according to this guide: http://dragonage.wik...hifter_Research
You essentially get three to four points for your shifted forms per point in magic. I mean, if you just boosted your magic score you could have 18-28 str and 30-34 dex at 64 magic, which is around where most of my mages end up anyways. I know that's not great, but it seems more effective than boosting str and dex individually, especially if you still use other spells as you get the stat boost for your forms and the magic boost that makes your spells more effective, or am I off base in this thinking?

Yes, i guess you are right in thinking that. A shapeshifter who spends a large part of his/her time casting spells is better off with investing only in magic. But someone who wants to play majority of the game in the shapeshifted form and want to optimize the damage output of that form is probably going to want to concentrate points on the relevant attribute, that is to say, Strength for bear, Strength and/or Dexterity for spider, and Magic for Flying Swarm.

Looking at that table, I don't really see how you are getting 3-4 attr points in shifted form per point in magic. On an average, it seems about 1 point per 1 point in magic, although the scaling is very erratic.

[zenrockoutkast]

Blazomancer wrote...

zenrockoutkast wrote...

Isn't it better to just boost magic, though? I mean, according to this guide: http://dragonage.wik...hifter_Research
You essentially get three to four points for your shifted forms per point in magic. I mean, if you just boosted your magic score you could have 18-28 str and 30-34 dex at 64 magic, which is around where most of my mages end up anyways. I know that's not great, but it seems more effective than boosting str and dex individually, especially if you still use other spells as you get the stat boost for your forms and the magic boost that makes your spells more effective, or am I off base in this thinking?

Yes, i guess you are right in thinking that. A shapeshifter who spends a large part of his/her time casting spells is better off with investing only in magic. But someone who wants to play majority of the game in the shapeshifted form and want to optimize the damage output of that form is probably going to want to concentrate points on the relevant attribute, that is to say, Strength for bear, Strength and/or Dexterity for spider, and Magic for Flying Swarm.

Looking at that table, I don't really see how you are getting 3-4 attr points in shifted form per point in magic. On an average, it seems about 1 point per 1 point in magic, although the scaling is very erratic.

I was thinking that a good shapeshifter would use hexes and spells like drain life and entropic energy to supplement the shifted forms, I dunno if magic would really boost the effectiveness of death hex that much though.

You're right about magic, I wasn't thinking that his divisions weren't level-by-level.  Stil 18/28 str and 30/34 dex isn't bad considering you haven't spent a single skill point in those.  So if you boost str and dex, will that add on to what the shifted form's stats already are, because you said they don't replace the shifted stats if they're higher, right?

[Blazomancer]

Death and Misdirection Hex have no numerical value attached to them, either they stick to the target or don't, and this success rate is dependent on spellpower. The other hexes depend on spellpower to determine the elemental resistance penalty applied on the enemy, which is capped at -100%.

Regarding your other query, no, your str/dex in unshifted forms will remain unchanged if they are higher than the calculated values in shifted forms, that is, it won't add the two values.

The thing is if you are playing as a damage dealing bear, all you need is strength; dex and con really don't apply as aggro will be drawn by your proper tank. So, the idea is to invest the attribute points in strength as much as possible increasing damage, rather than letting spellpower distribute it evenly into str, dex and con. Or so I'm led to believe, as I've not really played much as a shapeshifter.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, I realise that a little fraction of points will be lost when the str/dex values are replaced rather than added, but if it weren't so, it would kind of make things unbalanced, as the shapeshifted form would have more attribute points than a regular mage/rogue/warrior warden would have for the same level.

Modifié par Blazomancer, 02 novembre 2012 - 06:44 .

[Ridirkulous]

From what I understand it's best to split magic along with strength to get the most out of your shifted forms. The calculated value for strength is quite low so it's best to invest in strength earlier on if you want more powerful shifted forms. It's probably unnecessary to invest points into dex/constitution as well.

Much of the info I got came from this thread here:

http://social.biowar.../index/739982/1

Modifié par Ridirkulous, 15 novembre 2012 - 02:28 .

[TBastian]

Like Blazomancer said, it depends on what kind of character you want to make. Spells will always do more damage than anything else in the mage's arsenal in DA:O - remember that whenever you think about spreading your points out as a mage.

Shapeshifters do not need high strength/dex if they use their forms primarily to supplement their casting. The spider form has excellent magic->dex growth, so as long as you don't end up depending on its standard melee attack (especially in late game) you're fine. For a single skill point you get a nuke (poison spit), a disable (web), one of strongest anti-humanoid nukes and disables (overwhelm), good defense and grab/overwhelm immunity. The bear form's magic->strength growth is not very good but it comes with a buff that significantly increases its strength score so the same general guidelines apply. The swarm form moves the fastest, is immune to grab/overwhelm/knockdown, does more damage per tick than Inferno, ignore spell resistance in nightmare, has an innate dodge and does not harm allies with its AoE.
Pure magic shapeshifters make ideal nukers, especially if you are able to abuse how shifting back into human form is instant. Play them is also straightforward - get as many nukes as you can, get heals, get Spirit Healer, stack defense/dodge. The way the spec works though makes it a pain (or extremely tedious) to use correctly in the console version.

Shapeshifters who invest heavily into strength are a completely different kind of character. They're more like tankers who can cast mage spells. In any case you do not want to split your points especially in Awakenings where +spellpower/+magic items are all over the place and a pure Magic Shapeshifter can easily reach very high strength values in all its forms - his forms will actually have better stats than the Shapeshifter who split his points in strength/magic, not to mention his spells will be far more effective. In the end you have to choose between going pure magic, or str-heavy.

Modifié par TBastian, 16 novembre 2012 - 07:34 .