30 réponses à ce sujet

[Elhanan]

As I am all but blind with both my system and game unavailable currently, I could use some aid to help in order to speed Start-Up when they both are returned from the shop. I have little to no knowledge of the Character Builder, and could really use some tips.

From the little I have read thus far, what I wish to play with initially is a Dwarf; a mix of S&S Warrior with the needed Rogue party skills. My plan thus far is to begin as a Dwarven Noble, but from there I am rather clueless. I am leaning towards starting as a Warrior for surviving the beginning lvls, but should I choose Rogue for build reasons? I do not wish to steal personally, nor do I wish to use poisons, and am not interested much in stealth. However, I would like to have the abilities to pick locks and deal with traps. 

How should I proceed with this kind of build? What stats are recommended at start, as well as those abilities and bonuses gained along the way?

I plan on replaying the game with a Mage to see that missed aspect; same kind of aid requested.

My gratitude for helpful advice!
 

[Elhanan]

While I appreciate your concern for my RP well being, I have considered what you mentioned; hence my desire to start as a Dwarf, and one that does not duel-weild, not truly focussed on romance, and my desire to replay again as a mage. And as I noted, I cannot DL anything currently, as this is not my playing system; just my old one.



Anyone ready with tips?

[daem3an]

Your first post mentions you'd like 'a mix of S&S Warrior with the needed Rogue party skills'. Sorry if this is obvious: as a rogue, it's possible but you won't be able to take advantage of the S&S talents, and you'd have to invest a decent amount of points in strength to wield higher-tier shields and longswords/axes. As a Warrior you can use/disarm traps but you won't be able to pick locks. As Maviarab mentioned though, you will find a rogue who can help you out there not too far into the game, so warrior is probably the way to go for you.

I play as a rogue, haven't done a warrior yet but any class will survive the beginning levels. Rogues are a bit weaker than warriors at the start, but they catch up quickly. I personally find rogues to be really versatile and fun as they're great fighters who can do a lot of damage (not dual-wielding will limit that), and also have access to the rogue talents. Whichever way you go, don't completely discount poison-making, it allows you to make bombs which are useful. I felt the same way about poisons initially but this game actually changed my mind about what type of character I thought I wanted to play.

There are lots of great posts with examples of different builds. Just do a search for 'rogue' (or 'rouge') or 'warrior' in the gameplay forum. Here are a couple of rogue threads off the top of my head that have some good info/discussion (there are probably better ones around if you search):

click here
click here

edit - added a warrior thread: click here

Either way, first decide which talents you want, then focus on building up the attributes you need to get them (keeping in mind weapons and armor also have attribute requirements). Hope that helps.

Modifié par daem3an, 31 décembre 2009 - 03:58 .

[Elhanan]

Isn't that special? Talents do not seem to be listed in the manual. Is one posted around here?

I am soooo not interested in making yet another DW Rogue; don't care if has the best dmg yield or not.

Guess I could make another Dwarven Rogue archer, but my NWN folder is full of them. I will have to search thru this place again for some other options.

My apologies to anyone that thought this reply was personal; not meant to be. I am sorry.

Modifié par Elhanan, 01 janvier 2010 - 11:36 .

[Ygolnac]

Maviarab wrote...

I will say, why are you after a prime/perfect character for a single player game? Why not mkae a character and give him/her the stats 'you' would like (as in role playing) and see how the game pans out.

Completely agree, part of the fun is to discover how the game mechanics work by yourself on first playthrough.

This being said, any race/class/spec can make it through the game from origins to epilogue.
It mainly depends on difficulty setting: in normal you can freely roleplay and you can do some mistakes in assigning stats and talents.

In the second playthrough you will know the mechanics, how to develope characthers and the party setup, and you can have a completely new experience setting difficulty to hard or nightmare.

Also, more important than personal PC development is party configuration and mechanics like tanking, pulling, crowd control etc, and in DA:O there are several different combinations by wich you can achieve a succesfull fight.

The most funny thing is to find your own, since the game DOES NOT force you to choose particular combinations to beat it at any difficulty level. Main difference is for you to know how to do thing with what you have.

So don't worry, roll the PC you like best and have fun!!!

[Elhanan]

Just so all know, I am in the process of losing my rig and possibly the fund that purchased it; perhaps permenantly. And I have been playing RPG since '75. So if I seem a tad cranky; sorry.



But please; no more posts encouraging me to learn it all on my own, RP it all in fun, etc, etc, etc. It ain't all good.



I took the time to ask for tips on builds in a forum designed to get information on builds. If you are willing to aid me in this, thank you.

[Ygolnac]

ok sry



if i understand you are sick of 2W and archer rogues, so you can go with a warrior and specialize in something unsual for a warrior, like going full archery. Or you can still go for rogue and access bard or explorer specs instead of the common assassin and duelist one. But if you want to roll a rogue, when it come to fight you have bows and dual wielding at disposal.

Another solution is going rogue and don't care about char optimization, maxing str to get best massive armors and S&S, and still having access to lockpick abilities. For sure it's not the best spec cince u get no talent for S&S combo as a rogue, but if it suites you you will enjoy nontheless

[SusanStoHelit]

Okay, I'm not sure how much you know of how the classes work, so please excuse me if I say anything obvious or that you already know.



You said you want to play a Dwarf. Good, that means warrior or rogue, since dwarves cannot be mages. You said you wanted to go Sword n Board, also good. [Good because you know what you want to do, not for any other reason.] Dwarf Noble will give you some starting skills there. Dwarf Commoner will not (they start out with a few 'roguish' talents, even as a warrior).



But, it isn't possible in DAO to have a 'multiclass' character. There are skills that any character, regardless of class, can take (such as traps, poison, herbalism, survival, etc). Talents, however, are class specific. So, rogues can take stealth and lockpicking - warriors cannot. Warriors have access to the talent Taunt, rogues do not. And so on. The only crossover (but it's not an exception) is that since both rogues and warriors use physical weapons, they have access to some of the same weapon-based talent lines. So, both warriors and rogues can Dual Wield (but they need different stats because of their totally different warrior and rogue specific talents). A warrior dual wielder is not the same as a rogue dual wielder and should not be set up the same way for optimum performance.



So, for a sword and shield warrior, you can ignore the magic attribute when setting up and throughout the game. When starting out, the attributes you will want to boost are strength and dexterity, as these will allow you equip the armour you will want and unlock talents in the sword/shield lines. Sword and shield usually means 'tank', so you'll be wanting heavy or massive armour.



Some will say ignore willpower, warriors (and tanks in particular) don't really need much. I don't entirely agree, I think they need some, but you will get some permanent bonuses not too far into the game that will help there. Whether you choose to put some points in cunning (and how many) will depend on if you want to use one of the skill lines that requires a certain level of cunning as a prerequisite. But generally, warriors don't need much there and again, permanent bonuses available. Constitution is also much debated, some don't add any, others add some. Bonuses again.



Again, your pc won't have rogue specific abilities like lockpicking, and can't get them, but as soon as you start collecting your companions, you will have access to those skills. You can switch to one of the rogues, pick a lock or a pocket or whatever, then go back to your warrior. Oh, and for your information, most of the things in locked chests and so on are not valuable in the early game, and even later are not the special loot. By that I mean that it's usually generic stuff. The cool equipment and quest items is generally is unlocked chests, drops from fallen foes, or is available through other means.



I hope this helps, and was the kind of information you wanted. I am hesitant to give specific statistics, because what will work will depend on your playstyle and what you think is important. For example, I like to have all the dialogue options available to my characters, so I always get enough cunning for that, and max out the 'coerce' line.



If this doesn't answer your question, or you want more specific information, keep asking.

[Elhanan]

Actually. that was very helpful. Thanks! When I mentioned being almost blind, I meant it.



So if I make the Rogue design with S&S, it will be largely ineffective in battle. If I skip Open Locks, then I must rely on the Rogues in the party, either initially or on re-sweeps. I read that the PC gets XP if done personally. Has anyone checked to see if loot improves if the PC does the picking?



It is somewhat frustrating to see so many class restrictions. I mean IMO, that anyone should be able to receive the artisan talents of mechanically opening a lock and building traps. I tend to dislike cookie-cutter PC's, and being forced into types.



May any class/ race get Shale and Dog?

[Dallo]

Elhanan wrote...

Actually. that was very helpful.

SusanStoHelit's post was indeed quite spot-on, Ancient One.

So if I make the Rogue design with S&S, it will be largely ineffective in battle. If I skip Open Locks, then I must rely on the Rogues in the party, either initially or on re-sweeps. I read that the PC gets XP if done personally. Has anyone checked to see if loot improves if the PC does the picking?

Rogues rock in battle, mate, especially if you can position them for backstabs (which are critical hits).  Their first whack when stealthed is also a critical.  Initially you've got to pretty much get right behind an opppnent to flank it properly but you get the opportunity to widen that critical 'range as you progress.   I tend to concentrate on dex and cunning, though stremgth is important too.  Also, for rogue protection I like to use items that 'reduce hostility' ie opponents tend to ignore you a bit which helps when you're trying to position your rogue to best advantage.

All rogues, PC or not, gain XP from lockpicking, trap disarming etc.  Quite good experience too compared to that from most kills.  On the other hand I'm not entirely sure whether a party rogue gets codex experience from reading books etc.  It doesn't show up on screen, and you can purchase a PC-only belt that adds 50% to this type of XP gain.  Loot appears to be the same whoever does the lockpicking or stealing. 

It is somewhat frustrating to see so many class restrictions. I mean IMO, that anyone should be able to receive the artisan talents of mechanically opening a lock and building traps. I tend to dislike cookie-cutter PC's, and being forced into types.

I somewhat agree, but in this game you will *need* to focus relatively narrowly otherwise your character will be a bit gimped.  The combat in general seems remarkably well-balanced, and, for me at least, seems to be very party orientated.  Running solo would be extremely difficult, even on easy, and plotlines often require you to take party members along anyway.

Btw, I totally disagree with anyone who thinks that willpower isn't that important for a warrior, and I tend to keep it relatively high.  It's connected to stamina, and when you run out of that in a biffo your tactical responses are limited.

May any class/ race get Shale and Dog?

Yes, but only humans get a dog from the very beginning.

Cheers, mate!

Modifié par Dallo, 01 janvier 2010 - 02:57 .

[Elhanan]

Thanks, Dallo! Happy New Year to you, and continued improving health!

[Nifell]

rogues a decent starting class. one point in deft hands, then one into your choice. going full dex will allow you to put out some decent archery dmg, or go full cunning, grab the lethality talent, then your daggers and your bow work quite well. hit something for 260 dmg with my dex bow rogue at level 7 with arrow of slaying.



and as a dwarf noble, you have the chance to leave with about 27-28 gold. not including if you sell the blod dragon armor.

[Elhanan]

Thanks! My plan is to use a Gold Cheat if there is one, and it is not too hard to use. I rather dislike having to trek back and forth to the mall if I can avoid it.

[Dallo]

Elhanan wrote...

Thanks, Dallo! Happy New Year to you

Same to you 

and continued improving health!

A mage cast 'revival' and then 'regenerate' on me, mate, and it's all on the up n up.  Cheers!

[Nifell]

as im on console, not sure of a gold cheat. but a certain scholar has 3 gold and a certain lord dace will give you a note of credit worth 25 gold if you side with his cause. just make sure you instantly run to a merchant and sell it.

[Ygolnac]

Yes, there's a gold cheat, and also cheats that make possible cross class like rogue/warrior, but that usually means an unbalanced (too easy even in nightmare difficulty) game experience

here's the link http://dragonage.wik...om/wiki/Console

also, in the project section of social network you can find many mods, and one of this let any class that can't open a lock or a door to break it open (i am a mighty warrior and are blocked by a simply wooden door 'cos i have not the ability to lockpick it?)
This mode is nice becouse you can configure it: u can choose if u want the item inside chests to have a possibility to be damaged and if a certain amount of strenght or magic stat is required to bas it or not, etc.

here's the link for that, it's called lock bash

http://social.biowar...gory_id=&sort=1

Modifié par Ygolnac, 02 janvier 2010 - 12:17 .

[Boozan]

Follow my guide:



http://social.biowar...96/index/528968



It will help you greatly ``Blind one`` haha jokes.



What I forgot to mention is that Dwarves are best at warrior because of their racial bonus

Rogue=Human

and Mage=Elf

[Elhanan]

Thanks for the incoming replies and tips! Pls keep them coming; can use all the help I can gather.



I will probably skip mods the first time so as to see much of the game as intended, though gold cheat may be an exception.



And what of the DLC is recommended and desirable? Hopefully, I can regain my codes for Shale and the Dragon armor, and I was considering the Warden's Keep when my system died.

[SusanStoHelit]

You'll get a lot of varying opinions on DLC and mods. I like the Warden's Keep, it's only got 20-30 minutes of questing/battle, but there's some great armour and weapons to be had (for every character you make who does it). And when you've finished (although you can't re-enter the keep again) there will be a merchant, a storage chest, and a smith in the courtyard that you can access whenever you like. And one of the best weapons in the game can be forged there, once you find a certain piece of ore in a random encounter. Well worth it, imo.



Shale is great. The Dragon Armor I have, but it's ugly and I rarely use it. Occasionally whack it on Oghren.



There are many great mods here on the projects page and also at dragonagenexus. Some could be considered cheats (or can be used in that way) others are not. Some fix flaws in the game. Some simply add new sets of armor or weapons.



Oh, and it's not that lockpicking would be wasted on your warrior - you simply can't get it. Not there to be chosen. And experience is earned whoever does the deed, I assure you. If Leli picks a lock or my character does. Experience is earned by the whole party, as it were.



Similarly, if you go rogue instead of warrior, it's not that you shouldn't pick Shield and Weapon - you simply can't. It's not available to be picked. Rogues are dual wielders, or use a bow. And remember, specialisation is key. You're an archer or a dual wielder - not a bit of both. You'll seriously gimp yourself if you try.



The only 'exception' to that is mages. They don't have a 'weapon style' to specialise in, and their 'schools of magic' don't require specialisation. They can choose one skill line in entropy, another in spirit, a third in elemental and so on. It works. Rogues and warriors are different. Specialise in one weapon style, then use your specialisations and your rogue or warrior specific talents to reinforce, broaden, supplement, etc.



And as for willpower for a warrior, well, it depends on if you're going to run quite a lot of sustainables, or generally active skills instead. It depends on equipment, because there's quite a bit out there that adds to that. And if you're not averse to mods - the Stamina Potion mod is great. It provides stamina potions in the same way the game provides mana ones. You still have to buy them, get the recipes, make them from ingredients. But it sucks that mages get mana potions but warriors and rogues get bubkiss. This can alleviate the willpower/stamina issue. Generally though, a tank doesn't need as much willpower as a dual wielder or a 2-hander.



There are some other mods I use that I would highly recommend, but of course lots of people just don't like to use them. I just got Innodil's Pocket Plane, and I think I'm in love. The Character Respec mod is brilliant. Advanced Tactics likewise. Others too, but I won't mention them all, lol.

[Elhanan]

I purchased my new gaming rig on-line, and it came with old and refurbished parts; some broken. Trying to get my money back is going to be difficult. And this current system cannot run DA:O. So for now, planning ahead is all I can do.



Since it not used much, maybe I shall go with a Dwarven Warrior Archer, but with one that is also able to melee well, if there are enough talents.

[Sarielle]

But in all seriousness, everything said in here could have been learned, surely that is the fun of playing a game, not knowing what does what...learning, maybe I am wrong(?)

While I'll agree with that to a point, he would have been severely disappointed to have an idea for his character (a shield-using lockpicker) and play awhile only to discover that's not possible.

Games can also be un-fun if you really have absolutely NO idea what you're doing and completely gimp yourself; I did it with the originial NWN series because I'd never played those types of games before, and I almost didn't finish what turned out to be a fantastic game because of that.

I also have no idea why other people feel the need to inform a person what they should think fun is.



On topic, I can confirm you get the XP regardless of who opens the lock, since I have both a rogue w/ lockpicking and a mage who lets someone else do it for her.

[SusanStoHelit]

Absolutely, oh for the days of a whacking great manual that told you how everything worked, and that you could highlight crucial information in, and even make notes in *sighs*. I personally don't enjoy playing a game completely in the dark, not knowing how things work, I always read manuals thoroughly and plan out a character before I start.

Learning the fine detail and 'tweaking' as you go along, honing your knowledge, yes. Leaping in blind and finding at level 12 that you have seriously gimped yourself - not.

And as a scholar I actually LIKE learning and planning - it's a part of the fun of the game for me. And one of my military friends is appalled at the idea of going into combat situations totally blind, without any strategic or tactical planning, no scouting ahead, no infiltration, no knowing what you're doing or going to come across.

So those who like to play blind the first time - fine, to each their own, but not everyone likes to do that.

Modifié par SusanStoHelit, 03 janvier 2010 - 09:56 .

[Elhanan]

Are any of the attributes helpful or required for perception? That is, anything in the game that helps spot, hear, or search for opponents?

Also, I am wondering if I can aquire enough talents to aquire the needed archery skills, as well as melee weapon and shield?

Modifié par Elhanan, 06 janvier 2010 - 09:57 .