66 réponses à ce sujet

[EricHVela]

Corvus I wrote...

"What's in a name? That which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet."

We're not talking about "rose" and "triantáfyllo", though.

To be closer to the topic, we're talking about "rose" said one way and "rose" said another way as the same word.

I think, though, that we established that it doesn't require any great regional separation to find people who say the same word in a different way than others. If we all talked the same way, we wouldn't be able distinguish half of the voices out there from others.

[Karlone123]

Regional dialects makes characters more distinct.

[Swagger7]

Chris Priestly wrote...

So, how do you pronounce "Aluminum"?

In Canada and the US, it is pronounced "ah-loo-min-um". In England it is usually pronounced "Ah-loo-minnie-um"

Just pointing out that even within the same language, the word spelled the same way can be pronounced in different ways. It's still the same thing, and the world keeps turning no matter how it is pronounced.

I always found it funny how British speakers pronounce the sch in schedule as sh, but the sch in school as sk.  Then again, all different English speaking areas have their own idiosyncacies.  I'm from Arizona, and I once laughed my *** off at a Californian who mentioned seeing Javelina and Saguaro near Tucson, but he pronounced the words as if they were using normal English pronunciation, rather than how they are supposed to be pronounced (Have-uh-leena, Suh-wahr-oe, Too-sahn).

[AlexJK]

Leomerya12 wrote...

My point has been a bit warped. I was trying to show that in the same DIALECT, (not language) people were pronouncing words and names differently. This is a bit distracting and inauthentic to NITPICKY multi-linguists (I admit and own it!).

Language, accent and dialect are *three* different things, and the combination of all three is still not sufficient to determine pronunciation. I pronounce words differently to people who grew up in the same town as me, yet we are speaking the same language, and broadly share a similar accent and dialect. Whether it annoys you or not, it *does* happen.

Generally the rest of the world uses open vowels (ie: Latin), which provide consistency. Using Latin phonetics as pronunciations for foreign words will always do you better than using American phonetics, and when I hear foreigners like the Dalish using American phonetics, it sounds weird.

Sounds weird to you. Maybe that's perfectly normal in Thedas?

Modifié par AlexJK, 23 octobre 2012 - 10:14 .

[CaisLaochach]

Trista Faux Hawke wrote...

ClaomhScathach wrote...

If you're going to use Irish actors for the Dalish (fair enough, we're awesome) please don't use a fiddle-dee accent. Please.

The girl who played Merrill is Welsh.

She was, yeah. As far as I know it was to suggest a different tribe. Not a bad idea either, use Scottish, Irish and Welsh and you could have three different accents with some degree of natural similarity. (Even if the Welsh are Brythonic rather than Goidilic.)

[Leomerya12]

AlexJK wrote...

Leomerya12 wrote...

My point has been a bit warped. I was trying to show that in the same DIALECT, (not language) people were pronouncing words and names differently. This is a bit distracting and inauthentic to NITPICKY multi-linguists (I admit and own it!).

Language, accent and dialect are *three* different things, and the combination of all three is still not sufficient to determine pronunciation. I pronounce words differently to people who grew up in the same town as me, yet we are speaking the same language, and broadly share a similar accent and dialect. Whether it annoys you or not, it *does* happen.

Generally the rest of the world uses open vowels (ie: Latin), which provide consistency. Using Latin phonetics as pronunciations for foreign words will always do you better than using American phonetics, and when I hear foreigners like the Dalish using American phonetics, it sounds weird.

Sounds weird to you. Maybe that's perfectly normal in Thedas?

Thanks for "informing" me that they are *three* different things, because my statement clearly didn't attempt to clarify that I was making a distinction. -And I was.

Seriously, people need to give benefit of doubt and take time to understand a post before responding, instead of always trying to intellectually trump others. I'm reading the responses and most of them are arguing a point I never made.

Anyways, yes, sounds weird to me. I travel, a lot, and that is my personal view from experience; the world uses open vowels. Thedas is ficticious; I'll keep that in mind for my suspension of disbelief.

Modifié par Leomerya12, 23 octobre 2012 - 05:34 .

[schalafi]

So which do you think is a real word...pronunciation, or pronounciation? Webster's says pronunciation,the way a word is pronounced, is correct. "Pronounciation" is not a valid word.

Just nit picking a bit!

[Palipride47]

I reread your post, and will address what I found problematic:

Leomerya12 wrote...
Accents aren’t an excuse; I’ve heard NPCs of similar nationality pronounce words differently

If you define "nationality" as broadly as "American," I am going to smack you down for it.

I think even Brits and Irish (much smaller, land-wise, "nations") have thier own "ethnic" and "linguistic" clusters with different ways of pronunciation. (any Brits and Irish are free to correct me). There's a thing called language diffusion.

Also, I pronounce things differently than my mother, and we live in the same house. "Not 'rule,' 'ru-ral'!" is a fun game Mother likes to force me to play

Leomerya12 wrote...
"anytime I hear a foreign dialect pronounced with American articulation, it pulls my attention, which is very distracting."

Hate to say "too bad" (because I don't like the "standard" American articulation either), but yeah, too bad.

They gonna do what they gonna do, and that is purely a personal preference. And "Elvish being a foriegn language" isn't an excuse. American English just seems like the "default" because you can find our language insinuating everything.




And I just saw it has been resolved. whoops. 

Modifié par Palipride47, 23 octobre 2012 - 06:46 .

[GloriousDame]

Chris Priestly wrote...

So, how do you pronounce "Aluminum"?

In Canada and the US, it is pronounced "ah-loo-min-um". In England it is usually pronounced "Ah-loo-minnie-um"

Just pointing out that even within the same language, the word spelled the same way can be pronounced in different ways. It's still the same thing, and the world keeps turning no matter how it is pronounced.

Fair enough (although I'll still hate hearing "ahh-POSt-ate").
BUT, what about when members of the same clan say the same word in very different ways?
Your aluminum example doesn't lend as well to this case, even if you were to bring in that within the US
are some vastly different (say Boston vs. NY vs southern drawl, etc)accents/pronunciations because members of the same clan are not as widely distributed.

Truthfully, it'll still be somewhat annoying even if *some* of the reasoning behind the different pronunciations is spot on, but it's obviously not a huge deal... (especially if resources go to something like the CC and you give us curly hair styles because you're just that nice instead of having an uniform way to say things even within the same clan... but now I'm getting off track a bit- a lot).

[Palipride47]

Swagger7 wrote....

...I'm from Arizona, and I once laughed my *** off at a Californian who mentioned seeing Javelina and Saguaro near Tucson, but he pronounced the words as if they were using normal English pronunciation, rather than how they are supposed to be pronounced (Have-uh-leena, Suh-wahr-oe, Too-sahn)....

Haha, Tuk-son? Jah-vah-leena?
I grew up around Spanish too early in life to really butcher stuff like that. I at least keep the h's silent and pronounce J's like H's. But my accent still sucks....*sad*

[Raikas]

Leomerya12 wrote...

My point has been a bit warped. I was trying to show that in the same DIALECT, (not language) people were pronouncing words and names differently. This is a bit distracting and inauthentic to NITPICKYmulti-linguists (I admit and own it!). Generally the rest of the world uses open vowels (ie: Latin), which provide consistency. Using Latin phonetics as pronunciations for foreign words will always do you better than using American phonetics, and when I hear foreigners like the Dalish using American phonetics, it sounds weird.

I don't see how that ("dialect, not language") negates the point that there are always variations in pronunciation within any given dialect.  That's true IRL, so why not in a game?  Especially when the examples are "foreign" (Elvish or Antivan) names/phrases.  

I'm fairly certain that virtually all languages include open/low vowels, so I suspect you mean something more specific than that - regardless I can see why you'd want a Latin-style system for Antivan names (since they're essentially Spanish) but I don't see the point for the elf ones which aren't based on a Latin language.

Modifié par Hervoyl, 23 octobre 2012 - 06:53 .

[SpEcIaLRyAn]

I don't mind it. Things seem more natural that way. Not everyone says words the same way.

Such as if there is a mispronunciation in the lines too. It feels more organic. For example in Mass Effect 1 there is an option for Shepard of which he says Liara, but he doesn't say it like Lee-r-uh. He says it like Lee-aira. But for the rest of the game pronounces it like Lee-r-uh. Sometimes it feels a little more organic that way.

[Rompa87-2]

Chris Priestly wrote...

So, how do you pronounce "Aluminum"?

In Canada and the US, it is pronounced "ah-loo-min-um". In England it is usually pronounced "Ah-loo-minnie-um"

Just pointing out that even within the same language, the word spelled the same way can be pronounced in different ways. It's still the same thing, and the world keeps turning no matter how it is pronounced.

Um, I hate to break it to you Chris, but in British English (and in most other languages afaik) it isn't spelled "Aluminum", it is actually spelled aluminium.

Not trying to be nit-picky here, just surprised no one called you on it earlier

[Josielyn]

That is why it is so liberating and so much fun to write songs in fictional languages--- the words are out there but there aren't really any rules about pronouncing them until the language takes off on its own as "fan lore". As long as the vowels are consistent then the accents can be credible, whether the consonants are hard or soft. So, I can be a Spanish Dalish one day, a French Dalish the next, an English Dalish the 3rd, and an Arabic Dalish on the 4th day, and a German Dalish on the 5th. The possibilities are endless!