333 réponses à ce sujet

[corlist]

Re-tests done on 20 Mar 2013, post reckoning DLC and patch 1.05.

Collector bugs are fixed.

Incomprehensive combo test
Scion damage test

Thanks to everybody who helped with bumping and getting bioware's attention, which resulted in the bugs being fixed.

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*Edit* Collector bugs are confirmed

Brenon Holmes -  
Yeah, just finished looking into the other issues with Chris - there are some data bugs with the way the normalized damage computations work for the Collectors (and probably some other enemies as well). This would cause them to receive damage that had been scaled incorrectly from certain sources (combos being one of them).

With Scion damage, it looks like there was a bug introduced with an optimisation that is resulting in a double call to the radius damage... we'll look into possible fixes for both issues.

Thanks for bringing this up guys.


I'm sure a lot of us at BSN would like to thank you guys for looking into it too.
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All collector units, possessed or not, take 33.3% less damage from any combo explosion.

Bronze collectors take base damage.
Silver collectors take bronze damage.
Gold collectors take silver damage.
Platinum collectors take less-than-gold damage.

Also, scions cannons are most probably doing 2x more damage than they should. (Whenever a scion shoots a character, 2 instances of the same damage is dealt. This does not bypass protection gates.)
Scions do 2800/4256/5600/6720 damage per shot in the 4 difficulties respectively. (These numbers are already doubled.)

*added some cryo explosion tests
*made OP less ambigious
*added "subtitles" in the formulae for interested laymen.

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legend
[bm] = base multiplier
[det #] = detonate bonus for warp/throw/shockwave/snap freeze
[dif b/s/g/p] = difficulty multipliers for the 4 difficulties
[deb] = debuff bonuses for warp/snap freeze
[def a/s/b] = damage multipliers against armour/shields/barriers

*All damage done to shields are barriers are rounded up in-game.

Bronze

warp 6 + throw 6 vs trooper
Damage 646.875061
100 * 2.5 [bm] * 1.5 [det 1] * 1.5 [det 2] * 1.15 [deb] = 646.875

warp 6 + throw 6 vs p. trooper barriers
Damage 1294.000000
100 * 2.5 [bm] * 1.5 [det 1] * 1.5 [det 2] * 2 [def b] * 1.15 [deb] = 1293.75

warp 6 + throw 6 vs p. trooper health
Damage 646.875061
100 * 2.5 [bm] * 1.5 [det 1] * 1.5 [det 2] * 1.15 [deb] = 646.875

warp 6 + throw 6 vs captain health
Damage 646.875061
100 * 2.5 [bm] * 1.5 [det 1] * 1.5 [det 2] * 1.15 [deb] = 646.875

warp 6 + throw 6 vs scion
Damage 1293.750000
100 * 2.5 [bm] * 1.5 [det 1] * 1.5 [det 2] * 2 [def a] * 1.15 [deb] = 1293.75

warp 6 + throw 6 vs praetorian barriers
Damage 1294.000000
100 * 2.5 [bm] * 1.5 [det 1] * 1.5 [det 2] * 2 [def b] * 1.15 [deb] = 1293.75

warp 6 + throw 6 vs praetorian armour
Damage 1293.750000
100 * 2.5 [bm] * 1.5 [det 1] * 1.5 [det 2] * 2 [def a] * 1.15 [deb] = 1293.75

-----

Silver

warp 6 + throw 6 vs trooper
Damage 970.312561
100 * 2.5 [bm] * 1.5 [dif b] * 1.5 [det 1] * 1.5 [det 2] * 1.15 [deb] = 970.3125

warp 6 + throw 6 vs captain barriers
Damage 1941.000000
100 * 2.5 [bm] * 1.5 [dif b] * 1.5 [det 1] * 1.5 [det 2] * 1.15 [deb] * 2 [def b] = 1940.625

stasis 6 + warp 6 vs captain barriers
Damage 1294.000000
100 * 2.5 [bm] * 1.5 [det 1] * 1.5 [det 2] * 1.15 [deb] * 2 [def b] = 1293.75

warp 6 + throw 6 vs scion
Damage 1940.625000
100 * 2.5 [bm] * 1.5 [dif b] * 1.5 [det 1] * 1.5 [det 2] * 1.15 [deb] * 2 [def a] = 1940.625

cryo ammo + incinerate 6 vs trooper
Damage 206.250000
(75 + (200 - 75) / 10 * (7 - 2)) [bm] * 1.5 [dif b] = 206.25

snap freeze 4 + incinerate 6 vs scion
Damage 525.000000
(75 + (200 - 75) / 10 * (10 - 2)) [bm] * 1.5 [dif b] * 2 [det 1] = 525

-----

Gold

warp 6 + throw 6 vs p. trooper barriers
Damage 2911.000000
100 * 2.5 [bm] * 2.25 [dif s] * 1.5 [det 1] * 1.5 [det 2] * 1.15 [deb] * 2 [def b] = 2910.9375

stasis 6 + warp 6 vs p. trooper barriers
Damage 1941.000000
100 * 2.5 [bm] * 2.25 [dif s] * 1.5 [det 1] * 1.15 [deb] * 2 [def b] = 1940.625

warp 6 + throw 6 vs p. trooper health
Damage 1455.468872
100 * 2.5 [bm] * 2.25 [dif s] * 1.5 [det 1] * 1.5 [det 2] * 1.15 [deb] = 1455.46875

stasis 6 + throw 6 vs p. trooper health
Damage 843.750000
100 * 2.5 [bm] * 2.25 [dif s] * 1.5 [det 1] = 843.75

warp 6 + throw 6 vs captain barriers
Damage 2911.000000
100 * 2.5 [bm] * 2.25 [dif s] * 1.5 [det 1] * 1.5 [det 2] * 1.15 [deb] * 2 [def b] = 2910.9375

warp 6 + throw 6 vs captain health
Damage 1455.468872
100 * 2.5 [bm] * 2.25 [dif s] * 1.5 [det 1] * 1.5 [det 2] * 1.15 [deb] = 1455.46875

warp 6 + throw 6 vs scion
Damage 2910.937500
100 * 2.5 [bm] * 2.25 [dif s] * 1.5 [det 1] * 1.5 [det 2] * 1.15 [deb] * 2 [def a] = 2910.9375

warp 6 + throw 6 vs praetorian barriers
Damage 2911.000000
100 * 2.5 [bm] * 2.25 [dif s] * 1.5 [det 1] * 1.5 [det 2] * 1.15 [deb] * 2 [def b] = 2910.9375

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Platinum

warp 6 + throw 6 vs p. praetorian barriers
Damage 3784.304688
100 * 2.5 [bm] * (4.3875/1.5) [dif p/1.5] * 1.5 [det 1] * 1.5 [det 2] * 1.15 [deb] * 2 [def b] = 3784.21875

warp 6 + throw 6 vs scion
Damage 3784.304688
100 * 2.5 [bm] * (4.3875/1.5) [dif p/1.5] * 1.5 [det 1] * 1.5 [det 2] * 1.15 [deb] * 2 [def a] = 3784.21875

warp 6 + throw 6 vs p. scion barriers
Damage 3785.000000
100 * 2.5 [bm] * (4.3875/1.5) [dif p/1.5] * 1.5 [det 1] * 1.5 [det 2] * 1.15 [deb] * 2 [def b] = 3784.21875

--------------------

Other factions
bronze

stasis 6 + warp 6 vs assault trooper
Damage 646.875061
100 * 2.5 [bm] * 1.5 [dif b] * 1.5 [det 1] * 1.15 [deb] = 646.875

stasis 6 + warp 6 vs geth trooper
Damage 646.875061
100 * 2.5 [bm] * 1.5 [dif b] * 1.5 [det 1] * 1.15 [deb] = 646.875

stasis 6 + warp 6 vs cannibal
Damage 646.875061
100 * 2.5 [bm] * 1.5 [dif b] * 1.5 [det 1] * 1.15 [deb] = 646.875

Modifié par corlist, 19 mars 2013 - 07:38 .

[Dunmer of Redoran]

If this is true, this would explain why Collectors seem so much "harder."

[Kenadian]

Wow. Wonder if it's intended and not a bug?

[B.Shep]

I don't mind. I really like the challenge.

[ollpet]

i avoid them they always kills us.

[AlienSpaceBats]

Pun intended?

Seriously though, I played my first gold match against Collectors last night and they make the other factions look silly in comparison. Scions and Praetorians definitely need something done about them.

[LandoCalrisian]

Wait, you write:

Bronze

warp 6 + throw 6 vs trooper
Damage 646.875061
100 * 2.5 * 1.5 * 1.5 * 1.15 = 646.875

And

Other factions
bronze

stasis 6 + warp 6 vs assault trooper
Damage 646.875061
100 * 2.5 * 1.5 * 1.5 * 1.15 = 646.875

How are those any different?

[Arctican]

That explains why Kroguards tend to die a lot against collectors. That's an absurd amount of damage dealt in one shot.

[corlist]

LandoCalrisian wrote...

Wait, you write:

Bronze

warp 6 + throw 6 vs trooper
Damage 646.875061
100 * 2.5 [base multiplier] * 1.5 [detonate 1] * 1.5 [detonate 2] * 1.15 [expose] = 646.875

And

Other factions
bronze

stasis 6 + warp 6 vs assault trooper
Damage 646.875061
100 * 2.5 [base multiplier] * 1.5 [bronze scaling] * 1.5 [detonate 1] * 1.15 [expose] = 646.875

How are those any different?

added more details

[Stabby Badger]

Scion cannons are evil. 

Modifié par Stabby Badger, 21 octobre 2012 - 03:24 .

[ryoldschool]

Great work TO. Those Scions are a pain, and I believe that Bioware does not know this.

[LandoCalrisian]

corlist wrote...

LandoCalrisian wrote...

Wait, you write:

Bronze

warp 6 + throw 6 vs trooper
Damage 646.875061
100 * 2.5 [base multiplier] * 1.5 [detonate 1] * 1.5 [detonate 2] * 1.15 [expose] = 646.875

And

Other factions
bronze

stasis 6 + warp 6 vs assault trooper
Damage 646.875061
100 * 2.5 [base multiplier] * 1.5 [bronze scaling] * 1.5 [detonate 1] * 1.15 [expose] = 646.875

How are those any different?

added more details

From your results, it looks like Warp + Throw damage is the same for collectors as any other faction.

Stasis+ Throw and Stasis + Warp, however give less damage. ie Silver Stasis+Throw gives Bronze Warp+Throw damage.

Isn't this normal, though since Warp's Expose evolution give a bonus to BE damage?

[corlist]

LandoCalrisian wrote...

From your results, it looks like Warp + Throw damage is the same for collectors as any other faction.

Stasis+ Throw and Stasis + Warp, however give less damage. ie Silver Stasis+Throw gives Bronze Warp+Throw damage.

Isn't this normal, though since Warp's Expose evolution give a bonus to BE damage?

Stasis does not have a detonate evolution which increases BE damage, which you could have spotted if you checked the details I provided carefully. What's missing is the bronze scaling bonus.

Modifié par corlist, 21 octobre 2012 - 03:36 .

[Star fury]

Any comment from Bioware? If this is true, it's Epic fail for them.

[UnknownMercenary]

This explains a lot.

[Nelzeben]

Let's just say it wouldn't surprise me if this was true. They take obscene amounts of damage on Gold.

Sadly, I'm not sure if it matters whether it's intentional or not. The Geth's cheating isn't intentional, but that doesn't mean it's ever going to get fixed.

[Nafzger]

I don't really see how it's an "epic fail" when it was most likely intended for the purpose of making them a more difficult faction.

[LandoCalrisian]

corlist wrote...

Stasis does not have a detonate evolution which increases BE damage, which you could have spotted if you checked the details I provided carefully. What's missing is the bronze scaling bonus.

It would help if you compared Bronze warp+throw Collectors to Bronze warp+throw other factions then, instead of comparing warp+throw to stasis+warp, especially since the numbers are identical.

You have 100*2.5*1.5*1.5*1.15 = 646.875 for collectors
         and 100*2.5*1.5*1.5*1.15 = 646.875 for cerberus.

To properly display differences, try using the same combo across the board.

At any rate, good find.

I wouldn't be surprised if this wasn't on purpose, though, as you'd think that former protheans would be somewhat resistant to biotics considering how powerful a biotic Javik is.

Modifié par LandoCalrisian, 21 octobre 2012 - 04:05 .

[corlist]

LandoCalrisian wrote...

corlist wrote...

Stasis does not have a detonate evolution which increases BE damage, which you could have spotted if you checked the details I provided carefully. What's missing is the bronze scaling bonus.

It would help if you compared Bronze warp+throw Collectors to Bronze warp+throw other factions then, instead of comparing warp+throw to stasis+warp, especially since the numbers are identical.

You have 100*2.5*1.5*1.5*1.15 = 646.875 for collectors
           and 100*2.5*1.5*1.5*1.15 = 646.875 for cerberus.

To properly display differences, try using the same combo across the board.

At any rate, good find.

The same combo would've provided wrong numbers for the bronze troopers (too much damage) in other factions unfortunately, hence the stasis + warp.

If you're still unsure about any damage calculation above, see this thread.

Modifié par corlist, 21 octobre 2012 - 04:06 .

[Dunmer of Redoran]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

That's why Scions 3 shot anything in the game. .

It has to be. So many people who use Kroguard with Cyclonic III or IV have said on here that Scions took them down in 3 shots. It didn't make sense with the claimed stats that Collectors have, but if this is true, then it would offer a plausible explanation for their insane damage and HP levels.

[BridgeBurner]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

That's why Scions 3 shot anything in the game. .

My krogan sentinel says hi. He can take 4 shots. But I've yet to see anything thats not a rage mode brogan sentinel survive more than 3 shots.

Modifié par Annomander, 21 octobre 2012 - 04:12 .

[Clearly Balkan]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

That's why Scions 3 shot anything in the game. .

Staying in cover prevents this. Try it sometime. 

[Raging_Pulse]

"Collectors are bugged". I see what you did there. 

On a more serious note, I'm following this thread to see the dev's response, if any. 

[Clearly Balkan]

Btw. Just 1 hour ago I played Collectors Platinum with my TGI & Saber Mark 8.

I don't see a reason for all the fuss - They were obliterated in 25 minutes on London.