318 réponses à ce sujet

[Rawgrim]

Caiden012 wrote...

PsychoBlonde wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

I'm not certain why Inquisition is limiting us to another human protagonist, when fans have expressed interest in the return of Origins - I think it would have been better to see Elves, Dwarves, and Kossith as optional races for the protagonist, rather than limiting us to another Andrastian human when Dragon Age II limited us to Hawke.

*Sigh* because "fans" have expressed an interest in also being able to play as dragons, unicorns, and fish.  If their primary concern was "do what the fans want" this would be a very strange game, and probably an extremely bad one.

Those are just random fan requests. Playable races is something that was already given to use and then taken away so that we could be given a more limited character.

Spot on. the lack of race choices was also a MAJOR complaint about Da2. The lack of unicorns never came up...

[Caiden012]

bigbad1013 wrote...

Also maybe people shouldn't be making assumptions about the backgrounds just yet. The truth is that the origin stories in Origins, while certainly fun, really didn't make much of a difference in the end in terms of how the rest of the game played out. If they do the backgrounds in a way so that they are actually significant and relevant to the story then I think it could be great.

But isn't that what games are about? Fun? Why should we sacrifice the fun of making our own character so that Bioware can tell a story. I love the story but I love have a character I can connect to more.

[Jerrybnsn]

Lennard Testarossa wrote...

Making the protag human is probably a good idea. Letting people choose races severely limits what kind of story you can tell. An elven inquisitor would be ridiculous.

And this is what I think is the problem here.  The Story is taking precedence over gamep play, and it should be the other way around.  I enjoy David Gaider's writings and what the team does, but when the game play suffers to better tell a story then, the game falls flat like DA2 did.

[ianvillan]

AppealToReason wrote...

whykikyouwhy wrote...

ianvillan wrote...

Bioware says it is something to do with the story only being suitable for a Human just like DA2.

Now why a major company like bioware cant work with the story so other races can fit into it is puzzling.

Each game might be like a single chapter in a much larger story, and for certain chapters, the protagonist/POV is going to be human. That doesn't mean that BioWare isn't against having multiple race options in future games, or at all. 

Laidlaw even said in the future they plan on making humans, elves, dwaves and Qunari all playable but for the story they wanted that they felt it was integral to be human this time.

They said that being Human was integral for DA2, but that story has been critiziced by many as lesser than Origins story and that Hawke was not one of the main players in the story itself.

Another race could of been put into DA2 story and it would still of been the same.

[upsettingshorts]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

Ecto-Plasmic Effect wrote...

No reused maps and companion customization. I believe they were listening.

If Bioware thinks that DA2's problem was just no reused maps and companion customization then they weren't listening.  We've had overwhelming polls on here in the last year and a half that supported going back to a game that allowed race selection.  Yet, it's completely ignored.  No reason given either.

They have given reasons.  They're not hard to find.  The reasons were:  Story reasons, customization reasons, and cinematic reasons.

Therefore you either don't care about the reasons, don't believe the reasons, or don't understand the reasons.

Which one is it?

Jerrybnsn wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

We will have our choice of background.

 

What do these one paragraph background selection ever contribute to the game except for a few dialogue instances by NPCs that mention it?  

So exactly like how much Dragon Age: Origins mentioned your racial option once you reached Ostagar?

LobselVith8 wrote...

 I think the Origins were a great idea, and I think it's unfortunate that they were cast aside for Inquisition again.

I think they were a good idea for a game that was introducing a new IP.  It baffles me that because it existed once in a single game it's suddenly a requirement for BioWare RPGs.  Furthermore it's odd to me that people seem to link them to racial choice as if they cannot be separated and never were, when they can and always have been.

[unbentbuzzkill]

silly rabbit games are about making money.

[LobselVith8]

hhh89 wrote...

That was confirmed by Gaider long time ago. They said it was neither their intention making the PC expressed atheism in DAO.

Except Gaider's claim contradicts the fact that all Wardens could express that they didn't think Andraste was divine in conversation with Leliana, as well as the option for The Warden to tell Justice (in the City of Amaranthine) that he (or she) thought belief in the Maker was a "foolish superstition."

[thebigbad1013]

Caiden012 wrote...

bigbad1013 wrote...

Also maybe people shouldn't be making assumptions about the backgrounds just yet. The truth is that the origin stories in Origins, while certainly fun, really didn't make much of a difference in the end in terms of how the rest of the game played out. If they do the backgrounds in a way so that they are actually significant and relevant to the story then I think it could be great.

But isn't that what games are about? Fun? Why should we sacrifice the fun of making our own character so that Bioware can tell a story. I love the story but I love have a character I can connect to more.

They aren't mutually exclusive though. I should probably also mention that I found DA2 to be plenty fun as well, despite it's flaws. For me the choice of race alone doesn't add or take away from my enjoyment of a game.

[Caiden012]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

Lennard Testarossa wrote...

Making the protag human is probably a good idea. Letting people choose races severely limits what kind of story you can tell. An elven inquisitor would be ridiculous.

And this is what I think is the problem here.  The Story is taking precedence over gamep play, and it should be the other way around.  I enjoy David Gaider's writings and what the team does, but when the game play suffers to better tell a story then, the game falls flat like DA2 did.

EXACTLY. I love Davids writing but I also love that I could have fun making my OWN character. I completely lost that fun in DA2 and don't want to lose it again.

[Rawgrim]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

Lennard Testarossa wrote...

Making the protag human is probably a good idea. Letting people choose races severely limits what kind of story you can tell. An elven inquisitor would be ridiculous.

And this is what I think is the problem here.  The Story is taking precedence over gamep play, and it should be the other way around.  I enjoy David Gaider's writings and what the team does, but when the game play suffers to better tell a story then, the game falls flat like DA2 did.

Exactly. Thats the whole core of a roleplaying game. YOU are the main character. YOUR choices matter. If you are being strung along and TOLD a story its an interactive movie. Not an rpg at all.

[PsychoBlonde]

Rawgrim wrote...

Caiden012 wrote...

PsychoBlonde wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

I'm not certain why Inquisition is limiting us to another human protagonist, when fans have expressed interest in the return of Origins - I think it would have been better to see Elves, Dwarves, and Kossith as optional races for the protagonist, rather than limiting us to another Andrastian human when Dragon Age II limited us to Hawke.

*Sigh* because "fans" have expressed an interest in also being able to play as dragons, unicorns, and fish.  If their primary concern was "do what the fans want" this would be a very strange game, and probably an extremely bad one.

Those are just random fan requests. Playable races is something that was already given to use and then taken away so that we could be given a more limited character.

Spot on. the lack of race choices was also a MAJOR complaint about Da2. The lack of unicorns never came up...

Ah, so the actual argument is not "fans want it" but "we had it before AND fans want it BACK".  

Sorry my mind reading wasn't up to understanding what you MEANT instead of what you SAID.

[AppealToReason]

Caiden012 wrote...

bigbad1013 wrote...

Also maybe people shouldn't be making assumptions about the backgrounds just yet. The truth is that the origin stories in Origins, while certainly fun, really didn't make much of a difference in the end in terms of how the rest of the game played out. If they do the backgrounds in a way so that they are actually significant and relevant to the story then I think it could be great.

But isn't that what games are about? Fun? Why should we sacrifice the fun of making our own character so that Bioware can tell a story. I love the story but I love have a character I can connect to more.

You're assuming the two are mutually exclusive. 

[Caiden012]

bigbad1013 wrote...

Caiden012 wrote...

bigbad1013 wrote...

Also maybe people shouldn't be making assumptions about the backgrounds just yet. The truth is that the origin stories in Origins, while certainly fun, really didn't make much of a difference in the end in terms of how the rest of the game played out. If they do the backgrounds in a way so that they are actually significant and relevant to the story then I think it could be great.

But isn't that what games are about? Fun? Why should we sacrifice the fun of making our own character so that Bioware can tell a story. I love the story but I love have a character I can connect to more.

They aren't mutually exclusive though. I should probably also mention that I found DA2 to be plenty fun as well, despite it's flaws. For me the choice of race alone doesn't add or take away from my enjoyment of a game.

DA2 is a good game on its own but when compared to what came before it the game looks lazy and that is because of what was taken away from us as player.

[AppealToReason]

franciscoamell wrote...

Pedrak wrote...
- No silent protagonist
- Dialogue wheel or something very close to it
- Not a sandbox
- No jumping

These are actually reasons to buy the game, I like these features.

Yeah that stuff is actually pretty awesome and why I like the series. I don't even mind Day 1 DLC as you can get it for free with a regular priced preorder.

[The Elder King]

Rawgrim wrote...

Jerrybnsn wrote...

Lennard Testarossa wrote...

Making the protag human is probably a good idea. Letting people choose races severely limits what kind of story you can tell. An elven inquisitor would be ridiculous.

And this is what I think is the problem here.  The Story is taking precedence over gamep play, and it should be the other way around.  I enjoy David Gaider's writings and what the team does, but when the game play suffers to better tell a story then, the game falls flat like DA2 did.

Exactly. Thats the whole core of a roleplaying game. YOU are the main character. YOUR choices matter. If you are being strung along and TOLD a story its an interactive movie. Not an rpg at all.

In the TW2 you played a PC with a more fixed backstory than Hawke, and your choices in the game matter more than in DAO and in DA2.

[Monica21]

LobselVith8 wrote...

AppealToRease wrote...

If that's really a deal breaker than I feel bad for you.

I don't agree that it was merely cosmetic. My background as the elven mage protagonist meant I could agree with the Libertarians, I could voice that I didn't believe in the Maker, I could condemn the Chantry for marching on the Dales because they didn't convert to the Chantry, I could express how I viewed the Chantry controlled Circle, I could deal with occasional racism and bigotry, I could tell Leliana that I didn't believe Andraste was a divine person, and I could tell Justice that belief in the Maker was a "foolish superstition."

I can do all that as an Andrastian human noble too. I could tell the Mother at the Highever chapel that I didn't believe in the Maker. I could also request mage freedom from the Chantry, but that doesn't mean that it happened.

[thebigbad1013]

ianvillan wrote...

AppealToReason wrote...

whykikyouwhy wrote...

ianvillan wrote...

Bioware says it is something to do with the story only being suitable for a Human just like DA2.

Now why a major company like bioware cant work with the story so other races can fit into it is puzzling.

Each game might be like a single chapter in a much larger story, and for certain chapters, the protagonist/POV is going to be human. That doesn't mean that BioWare isn't against having multiple race options in future games, or at all. 

Laidlaw even said in the future they plan on making humans, elves, dwaves and Qunari all playable but for the story they wanted that they felt it was integral to be human this time.

They said that being Human was integral for DA2, but that story has been critiziced by many as lesser than Origins story and that Hawke was not one of the main players in the story itself.

Another race could of been put into DA2 story and it would still of been the same.

That is simply not true. An elf or a dwarf couldn't have the same history in Kirkwall as the Hawke family did. That alone makes the story impossible with an elf or a dwarf.

[upsettingshorts]

ianvillan wrote...

They said that being Human was integral for DA2, but that story has been critiziced by many as lesser than Origins story and that Hawke was not one of the main players in the story itself.

Another race could of been put into DA2 story and it would still of been the same.

Being human in Dragon Age 2 was necessary because the Hawke family was relevant to the narrative.  If BioWare was going to do racial choice and make the family important, they'd have had to make three families with three different stories as there's no way elf!Hawke or dwarf!Hawke would have said while fleeing the Blight, "Hey we have rich relatives in Kirkwall let's go there!"

If your response to that is "well some people didn't like the story" then too bad, that's not the point.  It isn't a subjective quality argument, it's an objective content argument.  

DA3 doesn't necessarily need to have a human for the exact same reason, but any time you fix any aspect of the protagonist to be something not changeable, it allows the writers and designers to build around a larger base.  

[Little Princess Peach]

forced to play as a human again....ok im not buying it it worked for masseffect but for Dragon age gimmie break

[LobselVith8]

Appeal to Reason wrote...

I remember saying all that as a human noble too.

Your Human Noble agreed with the Libertarians in the Magi Origin, expressed to Duncan that you still faced racism in the Circle Tower, condemned the Chantry for marching on the Dales, and dealt with racism for being an elven protagonist?

[Caiden012]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Caiden012 wrote...

PsychoBlonde wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

I'm not certain why Inquisition is limiting us to another human protagonist, when fans have expressed interest in the return of Origins - I think it would have been better to see Elves, Dwarves, and Kossith as optional races for the protagonist, rather than limiting us to another Andrastian human when Dragon Age II limited us to Hawke.

*Sigh* because "fans" have expressed an interest in also being able to play as dragons, unicorns, and fish.  If their primary concern was "do what the fans want" this would be a very strange game, and probably an extremely bad one.

Those are just random fan requests. Playable races is something that was already given to use and then taken away so that we could be given a more limited character.

Spot on. the lack of race choices was also a MAJOR complaint about Da2. The lack of unicorns never came up...

Ah, so the actual argument is not "fans want it" but "we had it before AND fans want it BACK".  

Sorry my mind reading wasn't up to understanding what you MEANT instead of what you SAID.

You dont see people going crazy over race selection in Mass Effect. That is because they were always humans and are fine with that. But we were given the choice to make the character we wanted to make and now we are lossing those options.

Modifié par Caiden012, 21 octobre 2012 - 05:10 .

[The Elder King]

LobselVith8 wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

That was confirmed by Gaider long time ago. They said it was neither their intention making the PC expressed atheism in DAO.

Except Gaider's claim contradicts the fact that all Wardens could express that they didn't think Andraste was divine in conversation with Leliana, as well as the option for The Warden to tell Justice (in the City of Amaranthine) that he (or she) thought belief in the Maker was a "foolish superstition."

I know well. I enjoyed using those for some of my characters.