25 réponses à ce sujet

[Darkstorne]

I know a lot of people are concerned about the character creation, the combat system, making sure Templars don't complain to you about blood mages whilst you slit your wrists in front of them to restore your mana pool etc. But I'm really curious about the introduction of politics to the series:

"The game empowers the player to become an Inquisitor, amassing an army, making friends, indulging in political intrigue and commanding as many at 10 "complex companions" in a grand adventure." 

This sounds amazing. I've wanted a AAA game to create a new system to challenge and test a player's skill for a long time. With almost every single game ever made, it's always "check out our awesome new combat system!", and anything else is handled through cutscenes or simple dialogue.

I may be hoping for too much here, but I'm crossing my fingers that DA3 places a focus (perhaps optional) on politics more so than any game has done before. To the point where certain dialogue sections are more complex than just "press the blue option to win the conversation and get good guy points." I would love to see something akin to Deus Ex Human Revolution's dialogue "boss battles", where you have to choose how to phrase your argument in order to work around your opponent's character traits - appeal to their ego; drive your argument forward aggressively; talk about the benefits it would have in other areas - the same argument, but worded differently to achieve a different result. You sense the eventual outcome of a debate shifting from one result to another as you push your argument in different directions, feeling out the best course.

If DA3 allows players to focus on the political nature of the countries we are exploring, making friends in high places, creating alliances, helping aristocrats so that they owe us favours - all to function as alternative means of reaching our goals (likely tracking people or a specific person down if "Inquisition" is anything to go by) then that would be a dream come true. There are far more ways to accomplish goals than simply killing wave after wave of enemies and trudging through caves and warehouses. Video games rest too heavily on combat mechanics, and while I wouldn't ever wish combat away, I would love some equally deep alternatives and accompaniments.


Good luck with the development of DA3, and please don't neglect the political aspect you've so gently hinted at <3

Modifié par Darkstorne, 21 octobre 2012 - 06:56 .

[Emzamination]

Totally Agree. The political aspect is what has me enraptured with the game, even more-so than the romance-- Surprising, I know.

[King Cousland]

I couldn't agree more. The politics of Thedas is what I think intrigues me most, and the role our characters can take in it needs to be expanded.

[garrusfan1]

So it will make you think instead of just saying fight this is GREAT news. I love real RPGs and DAO was a great example of it. That said combat should be secondary but should be at least half way decent

[PsychoBlonde]

Darkstorne wrote...


"The game empowers the player to become an Inquisitor, amassing an army, making friends, indulging in political intrigue and commanding as many at 10 "complex companions" in a grand adventure." 

Keep in mind the devs have stated more than once that the "leaked survey" where this quote originates is Not Official, so any of that information that has not been independently confirmed (such as the title) may be completely false.

[King Cousland]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

Darkstorne wrote...


"The game empowers the player to become an Inquisitor, amassing an army, making friends, indulging in political intrigue and commanding as many at 10 "complex companions" in a grand adventure." 

Keep in mind the devs have stated more than once that the "leaked survey" where this quote originates is Not Official, so any of that information that has not been independently confirmed (such as the title) may be completely false.

In addition, the information about 10 companions has been confirmed multiple times to be completely false, which throws the other information into doubt. Still, hope springs eternal...

[Emzamination]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

Darkstorne wrote...


"The game empowers the player to become an Inquisitor, amassing an army, making friends, indulging in political intrigue and commanding as many at 10 "complex companions" in a grand adventure." 

Keep in mind the devs have stated more than once that the "leaked survey" where this quote originates is Not Official, so any of that information that has not been independently confirmed (such as the title) may be completely false.

Don't forget the customizable castle as well.

[Darkstorne]

Regardless of whether it's false information or not, I thought I should let them know that, in my opinion, it would be a fantastic idea. Hopefully there are enough gamers out there who also want more than just combat mechanics for gameplay.

[Emzamination]

I can't wait to get into the politics of the realm! I hope we get to make decisions that affect other places such as ferelden as well.

[MisterJB]

I wholeheartedly agree. I hope Bioware is capable of delivering complex and subtle intrigues in DA3 while allowing our character to influentiate them in an intelligent manner so as to obtain multiple results.

[Blackrising]

Oh yes. If we're going to Orlais, wading through hordes of back-stabbing Orlesian nobles is a must. As well as a ball (masquerade or otherwise).

I mean, they already threw us a bone MotA in the form of codex entries detailing the political system of Orlais. Now I don't usually care much for codex entries, but these caught my attention, since it was already clear we'd be going to Orlais in DA 3 and I was interested in what we'd be facing.
They can't just give me this and not expect me to want to engage in conversation and dance and all kinds of things that will help me gather allies, enemies and make me a political force to be reconned with.
I'm so damn excited about anything that will sate my lust for intrigues and politics and social gatherings.

[Darkstorne]

Balls would be incredible. I'm a big fan of Brandon Sanderson's Mistborn trilogy.

An assassin girl attended balls to gossip with the nobles, learning of alliances and feuds between families that her group could benefit from (information comes at a premium) and spreading false rumours of her own to manipulate nobles into paths and decisions that would benefit her. And the great thing about balls is that nobles see the trading of information as a game - trying to intimidate and one-up their rivals, and flaunt their successes. It's a huge popularity game.

So yes! Balls and masquerades would be very interesting indeed!

Modifié par Darkstorne, 21 octobre 2012 - 10:17 .

[Dintonta]

Darkstorne wrote...
[...]
where you have to choose how to phrase your argument in order to work around your opponent's character traits - appeal to their ego; drive your argument forward aggressively; talk about the benefits it would have in other areas - the same argument, but worded differently to achieve a different result. You sense the eventual outcome of a debate shifting from one result to another as you push your argument in different directions, feeling out the best course.
[...]
There are far more ways to accomplish goals than simply killing wave after wave of enemies and trudging through caves and warehouses. Video games rest too heavily on combat mechanics, and while I wouldn't ever wish combat away, I would love some equally deep alternatives and accompaniments.

Good luck with the development of DA3, and please don't neglect the political aspect you've so gently hinted at <3

I would love that too! More complex 'social' gameplay (the way you put it in your post), wherever it may apply...
A few occasional very difficult combats instead of a lot of easy ones... Possibilies to have most of the sentient enemies logically surrender when they are defeated, also (instead of heinous mooks killing...)

[Dintonta]

Darkstorne wrote...

Balls would be incredible. I'm a big fan of Brandon Sanderson's Mistborn trilogy.

An assassin girl attended balls to gossip with the nobles, learning of alliances and feuds between families that her group could benefit from (information comes at a premium) and spreading false rumours of her own to manipulate nobles into paths and decisions that would benefit her. And the great thing about balls is that nobles see the trading of information as a game - trying to intimidate and one-up their rivals, and flaunt their successes. It's a huge popularity game.

So yes! Balls and masquerades would be very interesting indeed!

+100 to Balls, DA3 definitely needs dance animations! I can already see the assassins in the balcony and the discontented noble's guards!

[Darkstorne]

Dintonta wrote...

Darkstorne wrote...
[...]
where you have to choose how to phrase your argument in order to work around your opponent's character traits - appeal to their ego; drive your argument forward aggressively; talk about the benefits it would have in other areas - the same argument, but worded differently to achieve a different result. You sense the eventual outcome of a debate shifting from one result to another as you push your argument in different directions, feeling out the best course.
[...]
There are far more ways to accomplish goals than simply killing wave after wave of enemies and trudging through caves and warehouses. Video games rest too heavily on combat mechanics, and while I wouldn't ever wish combat away, I would love some equally deep alternatives and accompaniments.

Good luck with the development of DA3, and please don't neglect the political aspect you've so gently hinted at <3

I would love that too! More complex 'social' gameplay (the way you put it in your post), wherever it may apply...
A few occasional very difficult combats instead of a lot of easy ones... Possibilies to have most of the sentient enemies logically surrender when they are defeated, also (instead of heinous mooks killing...)

Enemies that surrender would be fantastic. Anything to inject some more humanity into the experience. I remember the first time I played Skyrim, and a bandit attacked me on the open road. When he realized he was beaten he dropped to his knees and began begging for his life. I was stunned, and sheathed my weapon. Maybe this man would change his ways? But sadly, he just got up again and tried to kill me once more. If some enemies genuinely tried surrendering in a game, I would have a very hard time killing them.


And although I definitely want more complexity and depth to social aspects of gameplay, I wouldn't suggest reducing combat as a result. It's clear that the majority of fans and gamers expect combat-heavy games. But I would love to see a developer like Bioware start introducing gamers to newer concepts of gameplay - finding ways to challenge a player's skill outside of combat through dialogue, politics, or trade... or anything other than combat really  But as an accompaniment to combat, rather than a replacement.

Games have a long way to go before they can really be considered mature experiences. And when combat systems like DA2's are the primary form of engagement for a player, you can see why so many people look down on the medium. "Press a button and something awesome happens" - in the form of exploding bodies and decapitations. Awesome for sure, but not exactly progressive material that shapes our outlook on the world. And although the DA series touches on some fascinating themes (homosexuality, slavery, mages vs templars) all of those elements are carried out through simple cutscenes (movies) or through basic dialogue that doesn't require any level of skill to navigate at all. So while there are some great ideas here, none of them presented through challenging gameplay. I'd like to see that change, and someone has to start that ball rolling. Fingers crossed Bioware takes up the gauntlet!

[Dintonta]

Darkstorne wrote...
[...]
And although the DA series touches on some fascinating themes (homosexuality, slavery, mages vs templars) all of those elements are carried out through simple cutscenes (movies) or through basic dialogue that doesn't require any level of skill to navigate at all. So while there are some great ideas here, none of them presented through challenging gameplay. I'd like to see that change, and someone has to start that ball rolling. Fingers crossed Bioware takes up the gauntlet!

I hope so too!

I wouldn't want to see the combats really reduced (at least the very tactical combats of DA:O, I can't say anything about DA2, since I have yet to play it...)
But , already in DA:O, I felt like confronted to a dilemna. The amount of tactical fights we could pick was excellent, and it's a part of the game I truly appreciate (I tend to disable tactics and freeze the game in an almost permanent pause, a bit like a chess-play...) but I resented it as detrimental toward the 'RPG/immersion' other side of the game.
Kind of playing two different games in one (which would be a win/win hybrid if one of those games wasn't detrimental to the other, as in making many of the RPG choices mere pretextes for violent outcomes...)
BTW, I always wondered why game publishers didn't try to sell two different games with the same franchise (a good 'Hack-n-Slash' one, and a more 'RPG/ immersion' other) : I would happily buy both!

Your suggestions reminded me a bit of the trial cutscene in NWN2, also. I liked it.:happy:

[Gerry79]

Darkstorne wrote...

I know a lot of people are concerned about the character creation, the combat system, making sure Templars don't complain to you about blood mages whilst you slit your wrists in front of them to restore your mana pool etc. But I'm really curious about the introduction of politics to the series:

"The game empowers the player to become an Inquisitor, amassing an army, making friends, indulging in political intrigue and commanding as many at 10 "complex companions" in a grand adventure." 

This sounds amazing. I've wanted a AAA game to create a new system to challenge and test a player's skill for a long time. With almost every single game ever made, it's always "check out our awesome new combat system!", and anything else is handled through cutscenes or simple dialogue.

I may be hoping for too much here, but I'm crossing my fingers that DA3 places a focus (perhaps optional) on politics more so than any game has done before. To the point where certain dialogue sections are more complex than just "press the blue option to win the conversation and get good guy points." I would love to see something akin to Deus Ex Human Revolution's dialogue "boss battles", where you have to choose how to phrase your argument in order to work around your opponent's character traits - appeal to their ego; drive your argument forward aggressively; talk about the benefits it would have in other areas - the same argument, but worded differently to achieve a different result. You sense the eventual outcome of a debate shifting from one result to another as you push your argument in different directions, feeling out the best course.

If DA3 allows players to focus on the political nature of the countries we are exploring, making friends in high places, creating alliances, helping aristocrats so that they owe us favours - all to function as alternative means of reaching our goals (likely tracking people or a specific person down if "Inquisition" is anything to go by) then that would be a dream come true. There are far more ways to accomplish goals than simply killing wave after wave of enemies and trudging through caves and warehouses. Video games rest too heavily on combat mechanics, and while I wouldn't ever wish combat away, I would love some equally deep alternatives and accompaniments.


Good luck with the development of DA3, and please don't neglect the political aspect you've so gently hinted at <3

[Gerry79]

Sorry for the double post I am posting from my iPad. This is a really good and it would be cool to see implemented.

[AndrahilAdrian]

I like this idea. It would be nice for games to branch out from killing and include more complex, social ways to accomplish one's aims. Like Planescape Torment, but on a bigger scale.

[Darkstorne]

I haven't played Planescape Torment yet, but I hear so much praise for it. I really should get over the Good Old Games and pick up a copy, especially if there's politics in there.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Darkstorne wrote...

I haven't played Planescape Torment yet, but I hear so much praise for it. I really should get over the Good Old Games and pick up a copy, especially if there's politics in there.

I wouldn't call it politics in a traditional sense (factions, wars, etc.) but there's intrigue aplenty with the powerful in Sigil, and a myriad of different ways to interact with them.  Also, PS:T is just plain awesome.

[Darkstorne]

I'll still find the time to play it sometime. It's considered such a milestone in RPG history that I really should experience it.

As for politics in DA3, perhaps it would tie into the castle. If the Inquisitor is acting ruler of that castle, there's a good chance that entitles him/her to court appearances and the right to engage in discussions related to realm management or similar equivalents in the countries of Thedas. I imagine it would have to be optional, but it would be great to be given the freedom to work hard enough at politics to make some significant impacts in the noble ranks, and secure allies who assist your goals through non-combat roles.

[Wulfram]

One thing I'd like to see is that you'd pick up enemies as well as friends, depending on your choices, and both enemies and friends would play roles in the future.

It shouldn't be that you just complete all the quests and everyone likes you now - winning the support of one person should cause problems with their rivals.

[Savber100]

If Bioware could create a game where the politics reaches the complexity of the Witcher 2, I would be overjoyed.

Alas I doubt that will be so.

[KingRoxas]

King Cousland wrote...

I couldn't agree more. The politics of Thedas is what I think intrigues me most, and the role our characters can take in it needs to be expanded.