3855 réponses à ce sujet

[JuGonzo]

TheJediSaint wrote...

JuGonzo wrote...

In Exile wrote...

JuGonzo wrote...
Wrong. It's a common-sense.

May I quote Steve Jobs, Neil Gaiman, Alan Moore and Warren Buffet here?

I ... do you know what each of these people does for a living? Like, do you know what Buffet is a invesmtnet/insurance guy?

I'm not even sure how to respond to this. I just don't get the reply.

I know.

"the customer is always right"? yeah... Steve Jobs made iPad thinking about this. 

The problem is that none of the people mentioned are game developers.

Are just few exempls. And they fit for any kind of product.

Neil Gaiman and Alan Moore are writers anyway. 

[Maria Caliban]

I feel better and can leave now.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 26 octobre 2012 - 02:56 .

[In Exile]

JuGonzo wrote...
I know.

"the customer is always right"? yeah... Steve Jobs made iPad thinking about this. 

I ... what? It's true - Jobs was brilliant. But you know who made a killing copying and improve Apple-like products? Samsung and Google. Android and the GS/Nexus series of phones rake in money, and they're all about giving customers what they want (a phone like an iphone, with an OS like the iOS).

Buffet is a value investor - I can't comment on the insurance business he manages, but that's not at all comparable to developing.

[marshalleck]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Marshalleck,

BioWare is using an 'ongoing process of refinement.' But it will be refining DA II, not DA:O.

It's going to have DA II human only, but will have backgrounds to make it feel less like a pre-gen hero.
It's going to have DA II iconic armor, but you'll be able to switch out armor on your companions and there will be a visual change.

The levels will be larger and more varied. Environments and characters will be more detailed. Other stuffs that would be rumor at this point.

They're making DA II 'but better.' Which is refinement, just not of the game you prefer.

While I understand what you're saying, I think it's a bit too early to make this judgement. We'll see what they deliver.

[Fast Jimmy]

Maria Caliban wrote...

*double cough*

I've got a throat losenger here?

[Fast Jimmy]

Maria Caliban wrote...



I feel better and can leave now.

I'm confused about this thread in general, actually. Wasn't this locked down by Allan a few days ago?

[LilyasAvalon]

AlexJK wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...

I'm going to give Bioware the benefit of the doubt [... but] this game is already beginning to have a sour taste in my mouth.

Bit of a contradiction? Do you know what "benefit of the doubt" means?

"to believe something good about someone, rather than something bad, when you have the possibility of doing either".

I KNOW Bioware is capable of great story, captivating worlds and inovating characters. While some recent news has not left me overly confident, I'm not going to dismiss this game until I've, at the very least, played a demo. Then I'll start either bashing or worshipping Bioware.

My best stance at this point in time is described as, neutral.

[LilyasAvalon]

Maria Caliban wrote...



I feel better and can leave now.

Mmm. Old Spice Guy. Love this dude.

[JuGonzo]

In Exile wrote...

JuGonzo wrote...
I know.

"the customer is always right"? yeah... Steve Jobs made iPad thinking about this. 

I ... what? It's true - Jobs was brilliant. But you know who made a killing copying and improve Apple-like products? Samsung and Google. Android and the GS/Nexus series of phones rake in money, and they're all about giving customers what they want (a phone like an iphone, with an OS like the iOS).

Buffet is a value investor - I can't comment on the insurance business he manages, but that's not at all comparable to developing.

Uh-oh... off topic... but I'll use small words: You just can't do everything the marjority o fans wants.

My point is: 90% prefers humans characters... ok. Lets forget dwarves and elves (and qunari, perhaps?) forever. Games with elves and dwarver protagonists don't sell.

That's it.

[LilyasAvalon]

JuGonzo wrote...

Uh-oh... off topic... but I'll use small words: You just can't do everything the marjority o fans wants.

My point is: 90% prefers humans characters... ok. Lets forget dwarves and elves (and qunari, perhaps?) forever. Games with elves and dwarver protagonists don't sell.

That's it.

What about games that give the option of humans, elves, dwarves, etc. like DA:O did though? And, to point something out, DA2 had JUST a human protagionist...

And we all see how well THAT went.

[Beerfish]

LilyasAvalon wrote...



What about games that give the option of humans, elves, dwarves, etc. like DA:O did though? And, to point something out, DA2 had JUST a human protagionist...

And we all see how well THAT went.

Oh come on, that was a silly thing to say.  The fact that your race was human in DA2 had pretty well ZERO to do with the foibles of DA2.  If a person wants to make an argument that they prefer a variation in sex and race fine but at least bring reasonable arguements to the table.

[In Exile]

JuGonzo wrote...
Uh-oh... off topic... but I'll use small words: You just can't do everything the marjority o fans wants.

My point is: 90% prefers humans characters... ok. Lets forget dwarves and elves (and qunari, perhaps?) forever. Games with elves and dwarver protagonists don't sell.

I see what you mean. The thing is, basically two things push innovation: (i) having a ton of assets so you can fund your R&D; and (ii) desparate and risky choices.

I actually think a qunari PC would really sell the hell out of a DA game... but that's just me. I <3 qunari.

[nightscrawl]

In Exile wrote...

What I would hope is that they budget for origins (i.e., the same content as DA:O's origins) but have them as quests in the mid-late game. So it would be like starting DA:O at Ostagar, but then getting lots of unique content when you get back to the Circle if you are a mage PC.

I like this! I'm hoping that even if we don't get to play through the character background that being informed about it will be a bit more involved than reading a paragraph in a list of choices. I'm also hoping that it won't be chosen for us based on something as minor as our class choice, a la DA2 sibling death.

Actually, scratch that last part. I do think that an elaborate class-based background would be fun. I'd be especially interested to see how they would differentiate rogue and warrior.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 26 octobre 2012 - 03:13 .

[In Exile]

nightscrawl wrote...
I like this! I'm hoping that even if we don't get to play through the character background that being informed about it will be a bit more involved that reading a paragraph in a list of choices. I'm also hoping that it won't be chosen for us based on something as minor as our class choice, a la DA2 sibling death.

I'm not optimistic, tbh, but it would be a way Bioware could get my excitement back up after the loss of origins.

[LilyasAvalon]

Beerfish wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...

What about games that give the option of humans, elves, dwarves, etc. like DA:O did though? And, to point something out, DA2 had JUST a human protagionist...

And we all see how well THAT went.

Oh come on, that was a silly thing to say.  The fact that your race was human in DA2 had pretty well ZERO to do with the foibles of DA2.  If a person wants to make an argument that they prefer a variation in sex and race fine but at least bring reasonable arguements to the table.

That depends on what angle you're looking at. Lack of customisations such as race and that can lead to a fairly restricted characters, which can make things, to be blunt, boring. In Hawke's case, s/he felt pretty much prewritten for us, you couple that with a short, unoragnised and crap story... it doesn't exactly make GotY material.

[marshalleck]

LilyasAvalon wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...

What about games that give the option of humans, elves, dwarves, etc. like DA:O did though? And, to point something out, DA2 had JUST a human protagionist...

And we all see how well THAT went.

Oh come on, that was a silly thing to say.  The fact that your race was human in DA2 had pretty well ZERO to do with the foibles of DA2.  If a person wants to make an argument that they prefer a variation in sex and race fine but at least bring reasonable arguements to the table.

That depends on what angle you're looking at. Lack of customisations such as race and that can lead to a fairly restricted characters, which can make things, to be blunt, boring. In Hawke's case, s/he felt pretty much prewritten for us, you couple that with a short, unoragnised and crap story... it doesn't exactly make GotY material.

The characterization via dialogue being arguably subpar (which I personally am not inclined to dispute) doesn't make the lack of race selection bad, and it wouldn't make the game any better if you could be an elf or dwarf with equally bad dialogue characterization. 

[ianvillan]

marshalleck wrote...

@dheer: You can be suspicious about it all you want, but unless you have other data that's more quantitatively and qualitatively useful, it's likely the most supportable data Bioware have to go on (augmented by critic/user reviews, press articles, social network analysis, BSN forum posts, focus groups, etc.)

So where is the rest of the data from Origins and DA2, and what if the data from both games showed that 70% of players played a mage character should they scrap the other two classes to save resources and make a better story.

How about data in DA2 for who sided with the mages or templars should we make it so you can only have one choice in the next game. Or even better show what the majority of players chosse for the dominate tone and then make it so there is no more choice in dialogue and all of it is auto-dialogue in the main tone.

The main point I am making is why follow the data in the first place if you dont follow all the data.

[Maclimes]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

I'm confused about this thread in general, actually. Wasn't this locked down by Allan a few days ago?

Wait, I thought Epler locked it down?

[LilyasAvalon]

marshalleck wrote...
The characterization via dialogue being arguably subpar (which I personally am not inclined to dispute) doesn't make the lack of race selection bad, and it wouldn't make the game any better if you could be an elf or dwarf with equally bad dialogue characterization. 

Fair enough. On a more important note, will the protag have a French accent?

[marshalleck]

ianvillan wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

@dheer: You can be suspicious about it all you want, but unless you have other data that's more quantitatively and qualitatively useful, it's likely the most supportable data Bioware have to go on (augmented by critic/user reviews, press articles, social network analysis, BSN forum posts, focus groups, etc.)

So where is the rest of the data from Origins and DA2, and what if the data from both games showed that 70% of players played a mage character should they scrap the other two classes to save resources and make a better story.

How about data in DA2 for who sided with the mages or templars should we make it so you can only have one choice in the next game. Or even better show what the majority of players chosse for the dominate tone and then make it so there is no more choice in dialogue and all of it is auto-dialogue in the main tone.

The main point I am making is why follow the data in the first place if you dont follow all the data.

I already addressed the "why not remove a class" argument earlier. 

And I am in favor of restricting the prevalence of choices to circumstances Bioware can commit to following through to conclusion. See the other thread about removing save game imports. 

[Sidney]

LilyasAvalon wrote...
That depends on what angle you're looking at. Lack of customisations such as race and that can lead to a fairly restricted characters, which can make things, to be blunt, boring. In Hawke's case, s/he felt pretty much prewritten for us, you couple that with a short, unoragnised and crap story... it doesn't exactly make GotY material.

No, lack of purely cosmetic choices doesn't limit your character.  You've got god knows how many races in TES and yet those characters aren't worth a darn. Why? Thjey have no meaningful choices nothing to define them other than the stupid loot they've made themselves.

You are what you do not what you look like. Your character in DAO is defined by their choices. If I tell you my first character was a dual wielding eleven fighter does that tell you anything meaningful about my character? No. If I tell you he kept the forge, chose Behlen, sided with the elves,  annulled the tower and killed the kid in Relciffe does that tell you something about him? Yes.

[Sidney]

LilyasAvalon wrote...

marshalleck wrote...
The characterization via dialogue being arguably subpar (which I personally am not inclined to dispute) doesn't make the lack of race selection bad, and it wouldn't make the game any better if you could be an elf or dwarf with equally bad dialogue characterization. 

Fair enough. On a more important note, will the protag have a French accent?

Hopefully...no. Given the cheestastic accents so far from Orlais I dread an entire game of people who sound like Maurice Chevalier.

[Fallstar]

Toasting on epic bread.

More seriously: I don't think the non playable origin stories will have the same impact as the DAO ones did. When you kill Howe, it is immensely satisfying because you actually played the Origin story and had to leave your parents. If you'd just been told that this and this happened at the beginning of the game, but didn't actually see it, it wouldn't have had the same impact.

Modifié par DuskWarden, 26 octobre 2012 - 03:28 .

[LilyasAvalon]

Sidney wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...

marshalleck wrote...
The characterization via dialogue being arguably subpar (which I personally am not inclined to dispute) doesn't make the lack of race selection bad, and it wouldn't make the game any better if you could be an elf or dwarf with equally bad dialogue characterization. 

Fair enough. On a more important note, will the protag have a French accent?

Hopefully...no. Given the cheestastic accents so far from Orlais I dread an entire game of people who sound like Maurice Chevalier.

I thought Leliana's accent was alright. :< 

[LilyasAvalon]

DuskWarden wrote...

Toasting on epic bread.

More seriously: I don't think the non playable origin stories will have the same impact as the DAO ones did. When you kill Howe, it is immensely satisfying because you actually played the Origin story and had to leave your parents. If you'd just been told that this and this happened at the beginning of the game, but didn't actually see it, it wouldn't have had the same impact.

Now see, this is what I meant and it was my favourite part of DA:O. Killing Howe as a Noble Human felt MUCH more satisfying than killing him as say, a Mage or an Elf. Just like denying Bhelen the throne as the Dwarf Noble was satisfying too.