3855 réponses à ce sujet

[Adanu]

Gotholhorakh wrote...

-k-a-t-e- wrote...

If done properly, with a good range of background/origin options with enough depth, I think human restricted characters of DA3 can have as much to offer as the DAO choices did, sure they would be different but just because it's only one race doesn't mean they can't do lots with it. A human-only protagonist doesn't automatically mean there's going to be a huge limit to roleplaying etc.

If you stand on one leg all the time, one shoe is just as good as two.

If you sort of squint and only look through one eye, your feet look just the same with only one shoe on, too.

Also, your other foot now weighs less. w00t.

Three cheers for the shoe thief for improving our lives.

<_<

There are many kinds of shoes, not just sneakers. Those thigh high boots are awesome. So are running shoes. Combat boots are great for some things too.

Your example -and point- is flawed and ignores that there are many paths to being a human, not just yours.

[JuGonzo]

I was wondering:

It's too late to Bioware change their minds?

Modifié par JuGonzo, 27 octobre 2012 - 02:33 .

[TMZuk]

Reptillius wrote...

*Snip*


I know I'm probably a little behind. But I have to touch on this

I need to back Allan on this one.  I can completely picture a Baldur's Gate without Racial Customization.  Yes we had a bunch of races but they did nothing to add to the game. You didn't get anything but some often hidden mechanical bonuses to your choices.  They did not change the story a bit.

I can say this with a difinitive nature having been a person who played both the first and the second BG's quite a lot in all of the classes and races over time.  The story was the same every time. Nothing special for being something different. I could have played it through as a human every time and had the same effect.  Yet it was still a game that had a gaming community and modding community for basically a decade.

Yes, but I believe you are missing an important point.

While it's great when the racial choice affects the story, it isn't the major reason why people I know and speak to want races. It's because they do not like to play as humans. A good friend of mine always plays dwarves. In PnP games and CRPGs both. He do not like to play as human. Simple as that.

So, already at this stage, after experiencing DA2 and with this news in mind, he is less than interested in DA3.  If he can't play his beloved dwarvf, it's less than likely he'll purchase the game.

As I stated in an earlier post, I believe the major part of TES games succes is the freedom in character creation and the exploration. It's certainly not the strong story telling, or the memorable companions which makes those games popular. With DA3 cutting down on one of these two already, and the franchise never having been strong in the exploration department, I fear that Bioware is already alienating potential customers.

Personally I loved the origins. I played once as a dwarven noble, which I would usually never have considered, simply because I got sucked in by the origin. It's IMO extremely dissapointing that Bioware is abandoning this concept, simply because they insist on a voiced protagonist.

Modifié par TMZuk, 28 octobre 2012 - 12:01 .

[MoMan313]

TMZuk wrote...

Reptillius wrote...

*Snip*


I know I'm probably a little behind. But I have to touch on this

I need to back Allan on this one.  I can completely picture a Baldur's Gate without Racial Customization.  Yes we had a bunch of races but they did nothing to add to the game. You didn't get anything but some often hidden mechanical bonuses to your choices.  They did not change the story a bit.

I can say this with a difinitive nature having been a person who played both the first and the second BG's quite a lot in all of the classes and races over time.  The story was the same every time. Nothing special for being something different. I could have played it through as a human every time and had the same effect.  Yet it was still a game that had a gaming community and modding community for basically a decade.

Yes, but I believe you are missing an important point.

While it's great when the racial choice affects the story, it isn't the major reason while people I know and speak to wants races. It's because they do not like to play as humans. A good friend of mine always plays dwarves. In PnP games and CRPGs both. He do not like to play as human. Simple as that.

So, already at this stage, after experiencing DA2 and with this news in mind, he is less than interested in DA3.  If he can't play his beloved dwarvf, it's less than likely he'll purchase the game.

As I stated in an earlier post, I believe the major part of TES games succes is the freedom in character creation and the exploration. It's certainly not the strong story telling, or the memorable companions which makes those games popular. With DA3 cutting down on one of these two already, and the franchise never having been strong in the exploration department, I fear that Bioware is already alienating potential customers.

Personally I loved the origins. I played once as a dwarven noble, which I would usually never have considered, simply because I got sucked in by the origin. It's IMO extremely dissapointing that Bioware is abandoning this concept, simply because they insist on a voiced protagonist.

Wait
wait
wait

I like exploration and all BUT IF IT CUTS INTO STORY and COMPANIONS

heaven HELP ME.

NOOOOOOOO

Skyrim was fun because of bits of story and exploration!

DDDD: So long as the romances and companion interaction wasn't as cut out as DA2 in my opinoin...

I'D TAKE BEING HUMAN FOR A DAY.

*cough* But really, xD I WANNA BE AN ELF STILL >.>

[Montana]

JuGonzo wrote...

I was wondering:

It's too late to Bioware change their minds?

Maybe, maybe not, but I'm pretty sure they won't change their minds.

They've said that they would only release info that was 100% sure to be in the game.

[JuGonzo]

Tony77A wrote...

JuGonzo wrote...

I was wondering:

It's too late to Bioware change their minds?

Maybe, maybe not, but I'm pretty sure they won't change their minds.

They've said that they would only release info that was 100% sure to be in the game.

They locked my topic because it was more persuasive about the lack of races. Cowards.

It's decided: I will boycott DA3.

Bioware = Losers

[Harle Cerulean]

JuGonzo wrote...

Tony77A wrote...

JuGonzo wrote...

I was wondering:

It's too late to Bioware change their minds?

Maybe, maybe not, but I'm pretty sure they won't change their minds.

They've said that they would only release info that was 100% sure to be in the game.

They locked my topic because it was more persuasive about the lack of races. Cowards.

It's decided: I will boycott DA3.

Bioware = Losers

No, they locked it because there's already a thread about the topic.  Feel free to pretend to be persecuted if you like, but you're not making your side look any better for it.

[Scarlet Rabbi]

JuGonzo wrote...

They locked my topic because it was more persuasive about the lack of races. Cowards.

Are you serious?

Thank you very much, I needed a laugh.

[Terrorize69]

JuGonzo wrote...

Tony77A wrote...

JuGonzo wrote...

I was wondering:

It's too late to Bioware change their minds?

Maybe, maybe not, but I'm pretty sure they won't change their minds.

They've said that they would only release info that was 100% sure to be in the game.

They locked my topic because it was more persuasive about the lack of races. Cowards.

It's decided: I will boycott DA3.

Bioware = Losers

Lmao you sir/madam fail more then ME3s god child.

[Felya87]

JuGonzo wrote...

I was wondering:

It's too late to Bioware change their minds?

sadly, is too late to make the races. People who liked a different character than the Humans, can only whait for DA4. or play something else. Thing I am going to do...
thing is, is just sad play a human in a lore as DA...a human can be miserable as hell, but he will never fell as a City Elf. if a Human just wear good clothes, than people will think he is a lord. A Elf would only be seen as a servant of a rich person.
A castless Dwarf would be seen as a delinquent or an inferior by every other Dwarf.
A Dalish Elf would find very hard to like a Human, after all that happened to his/her people because of them.
is not the race itself that is important, but all the things related to them. so, is not important being small or slim with pointed ears or tall with horns, those are just aesthetics. (at least in my thinking...even if I always use something different from humans, in fantasy RPG...only exception is DA2 for obvious motives...and because on PS3 I can't mod)
what is important the role the various races have in the Thedras, who make the races a great part in the customization of a character.
if those role had been assigned to different groups of Humans, it would have been great all the same, and it would have been good to have the chance to play as one of those etnia.
so, is not the race, the issue, is not be able to create a character of one of those groups of people, the sad thing.

[MrCousland99]

I am really quite dissapointed about it to be honest, I was going to be a human on my first playthough but on my second I would like to be something different like in origins. I'll just wait and see how many origins there are if there is a good ammount then I just might change my mind...other than the human only stuff all the info was awesome .

[Rawgrim]

TMZuk wrote...

Reptillius wrote...

*Snip*


I know I'm probably a little behind. But I have to touch on this

I need to back Allan on this one.  I can completely picture a Baldur's Gate without Racial Customization.  Yes we had a bunch of races but they did nothing to add to the game. You didn't get anything but some often hidden mechanical bonuses to your choices.  They did not change the story a bit.

I can say this with a difinitive nature having been a person who played both the first and the second BG's quite a lot in all of the classes and races over time.  The story was the same every time. Nothing special for being something different. I could have played it through as a human every time and had the same effect.  Yet it was still a game that had a gaming community and modding community for basically a decade.

Yes, but I believe you are missing an important point.

While it's great when the racial choice affects the story, it isn't the major reason while people I know and speak to wants races. It's because they do not like to play as humans. A good friend of mine always plays dwarves. In PnP games and CRPGs both. He do not like to play as human. Simple as that.

So, already at this stage, after experiencing DA2 and with this news in mind, he is less than interested in DA3.  If he can't play his beloved dwarvf, it's less than likely he'll purchase the game.

As I stated in an earlier post, I believe the major part of TES games succes is the freedom in character creation and the exploration. It's certainly not the strong story telling, or the memorable companions which makes those games popular. With DA3 cutting down on one of these two already, and the franchise never having been strong in the exploration department, I fear that Bioware is already alienating potential customers.

Personally I loved the origins. I played once as a dwarven noble, which I would usually never have considered, simply because I got sucked in by the origin. It's IMO extremely dissapointing that Bioware is abandoning this concept, simply because they insist on a voiced protagonist.

Very good post. I would like to add something to it though. Replayability. With more choices comes more replayability. You can make alot of different characters and that, in alot of ways, makes each playthrough different. Makes the game last longer, and thats a good thing given the price of video games these days.

[Maclimes]

JuGonzo wrote...
They locked my topic because it was more persuasive about the lack of races. Cowards.

It's decided: I will boycott DA3.

Bioware = Losers

Well, bye.

[Fredward]

Maclimes wrote...

JuGonzo wrote...
They locked my topic because it was more persuasive about the lack of races. Cowards.

It's decided: I will boycott DA3.

Bioware = Losers

Well, bye.

Five internets to you sir!

[Dutchess]

MrCousland99 wrote...

I am really quite dissapointed about it to be honest, I was going to be a human on my first playthough but on my second I would like to be something different like in origins. I'll just wait and see how many origins there are if there is a good ammount then I just might change my mind...other than the human only stuff all the info was awesome .

There will be zero origins. Just unplayable backgrounds.

[Huntress]

JuGonzo wrote...

Tony77A wrote...

JuGonzo wrote...

I was wondering:

It's too late to Bioware change their minds?

Maybe, maybe not, but I'm pretty sure they won't change their minds.

They've said that they would only release info that was 100% sure to be in the game.

They locked my topic because it was more persuasive about the lack of races. Cowards.

It's decided: I will boycott DA3.

Bioware = Losers

They aren't gonna change a thing thats why they made this post for people to vent and get use to the idea of humans only in da3, in this way people who like me, aren't fan of been forced to be Inquisitor is shoot down mercilessly by other players, leaving Bioware out of the picture when they are the cause of the disagreement.
exemple:
I start asking not to be forced to play as Inquisitor while everyone also talks about how good they feel with Human as hero.. see where am going? is kinda funny:mellow:

Something similar occur in ME3 forum Casey hudson post: name the person so many people focus anger into a constructive post full of new ideas and.. what that word they used to describe ME3 ending.. oh yes! Art.

[Spankoman]

JuGonzo wrote...

They locked my topic because it was more persuasive about the lack of races. Cowards.

It's decided: I will boycott DA3.

Bioware = Losers

I'll repost this from your persuasive, locked thread, to give you a chance to revive its apparent awesomeness:

JuGonzo: So the point is: why less when you can get more?

Assassin's creed had only 4 weapons. Assassin's creed 2 had 8... you got it?


Yes,
we said the same thing. You want more stuff. Not because racial choice matters, nor because the game is necessarily inferior without it - your first two red herring arguments - but simply because it's more, and you
want more.

And as I alluded to earlier, when you were still keeping us in the dark about your argument, Allan has addressed that. Everybody wants more. They have limited resources, and feel like they can make a game with a deeper experience if they don't have the significant cost of retelling the story for different races.

So, can you addres that point? Given a finite amount of content, why should the story be shortened or lessened to make racial choices available?

Modifié par Spankoman, 27 octobre 2012 - 05:19 .

[Little Princess Peach]

renjility wrote...

MrCousland99 wrote...

I am really quite dissapointed about it to be honest, I was going to be a human on my first playthough but on my second I would like to be something different like in origins. I'll just wait and see how many origins there are if there is a good ammount then I just might change my mind...other than the human only stuff all the info was awesome .

There will be zero origins. Just unplayable backgrounds.

But which ever you pick will be refrenced to alot more in game compared to ME

[Dutchess]

Tali-vas-normandy wrote...

renjility wrote...

MrCousland99 wrote...

I am really quite dissapointed about it to be honest, I was going to be a human on my first playthough but on my second I would like to be something different like in origins. I'll just wait and see how many origins there are if there is a good ammount then I just might change my mind...other than the human only stuff all the info was awesome .

There will be zero origins. Just unplayable backgrounds.

But which ever you pick will be refrenced to alot more in game compared to ME

So they say. So far I'm not convinced. I'm hearing too many of the same promises as for DA2 which proved to be plain false. Time will tell if it's truly different this time. 

[DreamwareStudio]

Spankoman wrote...


I'll repost this from your persuasive, locked thread, to give you a chance to revive its apparent awesomeness:

JuGonzo: So the point is: why less when you can get more?

Assassin's creed had only 4 weapons. Assassin's creed 2 had 8... you got it?


Yes,
we said the same thing. You want more stuff. Not because racial choice matters, nor because the game is necessarily inferior without it - your first two red herring arguments - but simply because it's more, and you
want more.

And as I alluded to earlier, when you were still keeping us in the dark about your argument, Allan has addressed that. Everybody wants more. They have limited resources, and feel like they can make a game with a deeper experience if they don't have the significant cost of retelling the story for different races.

So, can you addres that point? Given a finite amount of content, why should the story be shortened or lessened to make racial choices available?

I think the comparison he's trying to make is other series have offered more in subsequent releases without offering an inferior or shortened gaming experience. They have limited resources, too, and yet the games and its players do not suffer because of it, so why is this true of EA?

That is at least the subtext I get from what he's saying.

[DreamwareStudio]

renjility wrote...

Tali-vas-normandy wrote...

renjility wrote...

MrCousland99 wrote...

I am really quite dissapointed about it to be honest, I was going to be a human on my first playthough but on my second I would like to be something different like in origins. I'll just wait and see how many origins there are if there is a good ammount then I just might change my mind...other than the human only stuff all the info was awesome .

There will be zero origins. Just unplayable backgrounds.

But which ever you pick will be refrenced to alot more in game compared to ME

So they say. So far I'm not convinced. I'm hearing too many of the same promises as for DA2 which proved to be plain false. Time will tell if it's truly different this time. 

And even if it is, so what? To me an unplayable background is no different than a backstory in a novel. Sometimes it's nice to have, but really, the backstory is fairly unnecessary. Because it's a flashback, so to speak, it does not have near the impact as it would have had it been used as a current story line. The unplayable backgrounds are nice, but could you imagine how less of an impact getting revenge on Howe had been if at the start of the game you only read about Howe's attack and treachery rather than experience it firsthand.

Modifié par google_calasade, 27 octobre 2012 - 05:43 .

[Dutchess]

google_calasade wrote...

And even if it is, so what? To me an unplayable background is no different than a backstory in a novel. Sometimes it's nice to have, but really, the backstory is fairly unnecessary. Because it's a flashback, so to speak, it does not have near the impact as it would have had it been used as a current story line. The unplayable backgrounds are nice, but could you imagine how less of an impact getting revenge on Howe had been if at the start of the game you only read about Howe's attack and treachery rather than experience it firsthand.

Heh, the backgrounds don't make up for the lack of racial choice as far as I'm conerned, no. It's definitely not enough to make me change my mind about not preordering the game and probably not even buying it at all.

[Spankoman]

googlesomething wrote...

I think the comparison he's trying to make is other series have offered more in subsequent releases without offering an inferior or shortened gaming experience. They have limited resources, too, and yet the games and its players do not suffer because of it, so why is this true of EA?

That is at least the subtext I get from what he's saying.

I think you might be adding your own subtext to it, but there is some of that there. But that argument obviously trivializes or ignores the difference in the resources required to add different weapon types vs. adding whole new racial choices and origins.

[SpEcIaLRyAn]

I usually play as a human in Origins anyway so this isn't a deal breaker for me. I love the whole Rendon Howe and Warden revenge plot device if you choose the Human Noble Origin. It gave my character a personal vendetta against Howe. If the backgrounds in DA3 are anything like Mass Effects that can be good and bad. Good in that it gives a foundation for a backstory without giving details so I can make my own story up. Bad in that it has minimal impact on the game. I don't want the background to be too detailed where its all linear. But a stronger foundation of which it can have some impact on the story would be nice.

Back to the Human protagonist. Honestly to me its not that big a deal. I can totally understand that it probably would cost a great deal to make multiple races, all that were voiced but had different VAs. Not to mention at this point having to re write and choreograph and animate different scenes to account for a different racial choice.

I also have another thought on this whole thing. What if instead of a human we were forced to play as a dwarf protagonist? Would the reaction be any different? To people who play as dwarves it would be great news. To people who play as elves and humans, well they would be pissed. The reaction had they went with another race would've been the same. I think human though out of all races is a fair compromise if you can't have all race options because we are all human so we can put ourselves in the role of the Inquisitor. If I was forced to be a dwarf or and elf the average person would have trouble getting into it because they aren't and elf or a dwarf they are human.

That's not say that I prefer a human protagonist. I prefer having a choice as well. However what I am saying is that this shouldn't be a deal breaker for everyone. Dragon Age was never advertised as a trilogy or as a series where you can choose race and origins every time. Origins was like this yes. But no where did they say this was gonna keep occurring. However I agree with the notion that each successive game in a series should seek to not just iterate but innovate and add more.

Having a fixed race was more than likely a difficult design choice they had to make early on in development. It was either this or they dedicate a lot resources to racial choice and making those characters have VAs. Resources which we can all agree, after DA2, are definitely better used elsewhere.

And if this news is what will halt your preorder of the game I implore you to revisit the failings of DA2 and ME3s ending as that should've already made you cautious to preorder DA3. Myself I was thinking that I may preorder DA3 and not get it on release. I would simply wait a day or 2 to see user reviews. If they are bad I will take my money back for the preorder and purchase DA3 at a later date when it is much much cheaper or if they are good than I will purchase it and have my fun and enjoy Biowares return to form. Right now this all remains to be seen.

To sum up the point I am trying to make just in case you didn't feel like reading all that is that, no racial choice isn't a deal breaker for me. It isn't the end of the world.

[LobselVith8]

JuGonzo wrote...

I was wondering:

It's too late to Bioware change their minds?

Unfortunately, it doesn't appear that Bioware will accommodate racial options in Inquisition. Origins may be the only time we get racial options in Dragon Age, given the direction of the franchise.