3855 réponses à ce sujet

[NomadDC]

I'm perfectly fine with only human protagonist, as I don't play any others as much as human, but I'd like to have an option for dwarf/elf/some other race. It was always fun to go for DAO walkthrough as dalish elf and deal with different attitude towards yourself, because you're dalish. For me it's not crucial, but I guess some will consider it to be crucial and I agree with them.

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

The thing about humans is that if I wanted to play as a human, I could play Resident Evil, Metal Gear, Halo, whatever. This is a medieval fantasy game...

[Bernhardtbr]

Well it certainly isn´t crucial but was one of the BIG innovations of the game. No western RPG before made such choices so relevant (that does include Baldur´s Gate as well). Besides, if you look closely, what made DAO a great game were

1- Character creation and customization, and how the world reacted to you (and the huge amount of dialogue written)
2- Solid (even if not revolutionary) gameplay
3- Character interaction and dialogue (nowadays many people don´t care or remember but back in 2009 the possibility of lesbian and gay relationship caused quite an uproar).

Because plot wasn´t that great. Yeah Loghain, abandon everybody and let the Grey Wardens in Ostagar die too, so that latter you will be forced to call Grey Wardens and troops from Orlais because else you will be slaughtered. Wow, a big evil Foozle commanding an army of Koopas to conquer the world. Where did I see that before?

Modifié par Bernhardtbr, 29 octobre 2012 - 10:43 .

[SpEcIaLRyAn]

google_calasade wrote...

SpEcIaLRyAn wrote...

To play devils advocate to those who felt Hawke's different personality tones made him feel like a totally different person depending on the tone. Doesn't this already allow for the different roleplaying opportunites you seek with having racial choice? Which in turn leads to higher replay value? Look forward to seeing some responses to this.

No. If the responses contain so much of a difference they make the PC seem like a totally different person, it breaks the character and also a little thing known as immersion.

Immersion is perhaps the biggest, most key, instumental aspect of any game, book, movie, anything regarding entertainment, IMO.

To expand on the game aspect...

If, at any time, a game makes you say, "WTF?"

The game has failed in keeping you immersed.

Character busting aside, the immersion factor, imo, is one of the biggest faults of the dialogue wheel. Yes, the wheel makes EA's job easier as it simplifies conversations, but the wheel presents too many "WTF" moments and pulls too many players out of the game because what they selected is so different from what the PC states.

DA 2 had countless WTF moments...the dialogue wheel, repeated areas, the timeline, characters never changing or moving, the nonresponses of bystanders to violence, Kirkwall, ninja drops, waves, too many to bother listing.

Conversely, immersion is one of the biggest strengths of the Witcher series. How those games pull you into Geralt's world is truly impressive...at least it was for me and virtually everyone else I know who has played them. Likewise, the same could be said for Baldur's Gate 1 & 2.

You make some good points. I don't remember DA2 being that bad with the Dialogue wheel. I am probably going to replay it soon anyway to get a second impression on the game as a whole.

[Priisus]

One of my favorite thing about ME is how Shepard... even though s/he is one character, can have multiple origins and it makes the game experience unique. I really like that there are different side quests depending on the origins on ME1. However, from ME2 onwards, there are very few mentions about the origins at all... no extra side quests, just minor dialogue changes. ME3 leaves this whole idea completely void imho, I don't think I can feel any difference (the only thing I can think of straight of my head are Hannah Shepard being found alive and the different dialogues at the start of From Ashes DLC)... Other than that... nothing.

So while DA3 will only have a human protagonist, the different origins (although not playable like in DA;O) will add more flavor to the game imo. I always feel that playing a Cousland is different than playing an Amell even when they're both human. (Ok I seriously have no idea who will be the protagonist of DA3 because I had been out of the gaming news loop for a while now).

Alright it's neat and all BUT I'm just hoping for the origins to have more substance and will affect more than just dialogues.

[Genshie]

Priisus wrote...

One of my favorite thing about ME is how Shepard... even though s/he is one character, can have multiple origins and it makes the game experience unique. I really like that there are different side quests depending on the origins on ME1. However, from ME2 onwards, there are very few mentions about the origins at all... no extra side quests, just minor dialogue changes. ME3 leaves this whole idea completely void imho, I don't think I can feel any difference (the only thing I can think of straight of my head are Hannah Shepard being found alive and the different dialogues at the start of From Ashes DLC)... Other than that... nothing.

So while DA3 will only have a human protagonist, the different origins (although not playable like in DA;O) will add more flavor to the game imo. I always feel that playing a Cousland is different than playing an Amell even when they're both human. (Ok I seriously have no idea who will be the protagonist of DA3 because I had been out of the gaming news loop for a while now).

Alright it's neat and all BUT I'm just hoping for the origins to have more substance and will affect more than just dialogues.

There is a mentioning of Shepard's mother if you chose one of the origins in ME3 from Hackett (sp?).

[Xerxes52]

That's disappointing.

[Rawgrim]

I don`t remember any side-quests based on Shep`s origin in any of the ME games. Did I miss something?

[challenger18]

Rawgrim wrote...

I don`t remember any side-quests based on Shep`s origin in any of the ME games. Did I miss something?

ME1 had a little side quest based on your origin. They also give mentions in ME2 and 3 I believe.

[Rawgrim]

I only remember some mentions. It was hardly enough (for me) to make the backgrounds matter one bit. I suspect they had plans for them, though. But the writers got replaced halfway through the series (I think). i suspect something got ditched.

[challenger18]

Rawgrim wrote...

I only remember some mentions. It was hardly enough (for me) to make the backgrounds matter one bit. I suspect they had plans for them, though. But the writers got replaced halfway through the series (I think). i suspect something got ditched.

masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Assignments the first bit mentions the quests related to Shep's background, though especially after ME1 the backgrounds just didn't matter.

[Rawgrim]

challenger18 wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

I only remember some mentions. It was hardly enough (for me) to make the backgrounds matter one bit. I suspect they had plans for them, though. But the writers got replaced halfway through the series (I think). i suspect something got ditched.

masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Assignments the first bit mentions the quests related to Shep's background, though especially after ME1 the backgrounds just didn't matter.

Didn`t matter after they changed writers....The game also got alot more actiony after that too...

[element eater]

Maclimes wrote...


It's not the race selection that matters. It's the option for different backgrounds. And as we've seen, you can have many varied backgrounds from one race.

i dissagree I  think the race selection does matter, obviously if the game actively reacts to your choice thats good but not essential. Imo the main issue is for you to be able to react to it and play as your own character. 
To me that is the joy of race selection is getting to create a character of my own thats completely differant from my own situation. My 2 skyrim characters are for all intensive purposes the same from the game worlds perspective but from mine they are radicaly differant. Bioware telling me I must have a human protagonist especialy in a world were the humans are incredibly generic and dull only serves to limit my enjoyment of the game significantly.

Playing as a human from differant backrounds isnt realy a big deal. infact i'd rather not have the backrounds at all and just be given more scope to decide my own character history. All the backrounds achive is to give me even less control over the character.

ofcourse games can be good with a fixed race or protagonist, but if thats going to be the case why should i be playing dragon age when theres so many games out there that have a fixed protagonist , more intersting world, better graphics and a more engaging story. For me bioware have removed one of the greatest features of the game.

Modifié par element eater, 30 octobre 2012 - 02:26 .

[TheShadowWolf911]

element eater wrote...

Maclimes wrote...


It's not the race selection that matters. It's the option for different backgrounds. And as we've seen, you can have many varied backgrounds from one race.

i dissagree I  think the race selection does matter, obviously if the game actively reacts to your choice thats good but not essential. Imo the main issue is for you to be able to react to it and play as your own character. 
To me that is the joy of race selection is getting to create a character of my own thats completely differant from my own situation. My 2 skyrim characters are for all intensive purposes the same from the game worlds perspective but from mine they are radicaly differant. Bioware telling me I must have a human protagonist especialy in a world were the humans are incredibly generic and dull only serves to limit my enjoyment of the game significantly.

Playing as a human from differant backrounds isnt realy a big deal. infact i'd rather not have the backrounds at all and just be given more scope to decide my own character history. All the backrounds achive is to give me even less control over the character.

ofcourse games can be good with a fixed race or protagonist, but if thats going to be the case why should i be playing dragon age when theres so many games out there that have a fixed protagonist , more intersting world, better graphics and a more engaging story. For me bioware have removed one of the greatest features of the game.

Hes Got a point, take out the better Graphics Part and Suikoden 2 has any other game beat, Even Origins.

[raist747]

I'm tired of the "Humans are special" trope. Bioware has done a excellent job of fleshing out the other races, yet they want to pigeonhole us as humans.

[Gilsa]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Discuss how this makes you feel here.

Be civil to one another.  Respect that other people have differing opinions, and this works both ways.  So if you LIKE this decision, respect that others are disappointed by it.

Rather than closing threads I'll try talking with posters whom I think are crossing the line.

I don't have a problem with playing a human in DA3. (Didn't bother me in DA2 either.) Having said that, the only reason why I even picked up DA:O in the first place was because I was told I could play as a dwarf and that I could pick from two dwarven origins. I had no less than 12 different dwarven playthroughs from the first game alone. The lore was simply well-done. I admit that I was skeptical about the idea of a dwarf romancing a human, but I changed my attitude when I saw that the racial differences did get addressed. It was done in a way that did not treat the dwarf PC as the freak (Alistair: "Actually I was worried I was too tall for you") in the relationship so I really appreciated that and enjoyed the game that much more as a dwarven player.

What keeps me coming back to the Dragon Age series, regardless of the protagonist's race, is how inclusive the writing has been. I loved that all romance interests were equally available to the player in DA2, regardless of PC's gender. I'm curious if the romances will eventually be inclusive towards romancing more non-human races. I know the idea of romancing a dwarf is controversial, but the writers don't seem to back away from a challenge if time and resources are on their side. If it's not happening then I'm actually OK if there's a good justification for it. (Varric being the narrator for DA2 made sense for why he needed to stay neutral.) "Ew, dwarves" is not a good one.

[Bernhardtbr]

raist747 wrote...

I'm tired of the "Humans are special" trope. Bioware has done a excellent job of fleshing out the other races, yet they want to pigeonhole us as humans.

Considering how anthropomorphic races are in DA, I really think most people actually don´t really care if they are playing dwarf or elf. It´s often said people like protagonists human or similar to humans (Na´vi anyone?), but for games don´t think it´s really the case. I wonder which race people selected more in games like Aliens versus Predator.

And yes the "humans are special" trope is BS and I really hated that humans were such arrogant pricks in ME and became powerful so fast compared to other races. The Council could totally have squished the humans yet they didn´t, and some people still think it isn´t an **** attitude to let the Destiny Ascension blow up.

Modifié par Bernhardtbr, 30 octobre 2012 - 10:05 .

[Todd23]

http://social.biowar...6&poll_id=41006

[element eater]

Todd23 wrote...

http://social.biowar...6&poll_id=41006

ah thanks that clears it up perfectly tell you what why dont they just scrap the option to choose gender, remove the  mage class and cut homosexual content seeing as most people dont do pursue these options. Im sure it would save a heap of money and devlopment itme

Modifié par element eater, 30 octobre 2012 - 11:11 .

[Atakuma]

element eater wrote...

Todd23 wrote...

http://social.biowar...6&poll_id=41006

ah thanks that clears it up perfectly tell you what why dont they just scrap the option to choose gender, remove the  mage class and cut homosexual content seeing as most people dont do pursue these options. Im sure it would save a heap of money and devlopment itme

Right because this is just about removing choices for the sake of saving some money. It couldn't be because their priorities don't match your preferences. 

[element eater]

Atakuma wrote...

element eater wrote...

Todd23 wrote...

http://social.biowar...6&poll_id=41006

ah thanks that clears it up perfectly tell you what why dont they just scrap the option to choose gender, remove the  mage class and cut homosexual content seeing as most people dont do pursue these options. Im sure it would save a heap of money and devlopment itme

Right because this is just about removing choices for the sake of saving some money. It couldn't be because their priorities don't match your preferences. 

 get over yourself, did u actualy read the post?

i was reffering to the fact that he posted a lousy little poll as justification to not include it in game. i was pointing out what else could be cut if that thought process was continued

 was obviously not stating that this is how it should be or why it was done 

[Atakuma]

Okay my bad.

[element eater]

no worries

[Todd23]

element eater wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

element eater wrote...

Todd23 wrote...

http://social.biowar...6&poll_id=41006

ah thanks that clears it up perfectly tell you what why dont they just scrap the option to choose gender, remove the  mage class and cut homosexual content seeing as most people dont do pursue these options. Im sure it would save a heap of money and devlopment itme

Right because this is just about removing choices for the sake of saving some money. It couldn't be because their priorities don't match your preferences. 

 get over yourself, did u actualy read the post?

i was reffering to the fact that he posted a lousy little poll as justification to not include it in game. i was pointing out what else could be cut if that thought process was continued

 was obviously not stating that this is how it should be or why it was done 

I would like to point out that I never said the poll results justify it.  I never even said i agreed.  As you can see by my picture and if you've seen my posts on other topics you would know I'm very upset with the fact that they removed the races.  I simply posted this so people posting on this topic can see the results and have a chance to vote.

[Face of Evil]

I just wanna note that removing race choice in Dragon Age is not quite the same thing as removing it in, say, Dungeons and Dragons. In D&D, there's a whole Burger King Kid's Club of race options (Yahtzee's joke, not mine) for use with your character. From just the three Player's Handbooks, you can be a human, dwarf, elf, half-elf, halfling, dragonborn, tiefling, gnome, goliath, shifter, minotaur, githzerai, wilden or shardmind. And that's not even counting monster race options or races in supplemental materials.

In Dragon Age, the race options are human, elf and dwarf. That's it. And both the elves and the dwarves are dying races, with humans far outnumbering both. The chances of a qunari protagonist are slim, as their mindset is just weird. That just leaves darkspawn, which are the baddies of this setting and about as far removed from a human's mindset as you can possibly get.

I know that if all you eat is bread and water, the option to have bread with jam or bread with butter may seem like a big deal. But in the end, it's still just bread and water.

Modifié par Face of Evil, 01 novembre 2012 - 07:50 .