3855 réponses à ce sujet

[element eater]

Todd23 wrote...

I would like to point out that I never said the poll results justify it.  I never even said i agreed.  As you can see by my picture and if you've seen my posts on other topics you would know I'm very upset with the fact that they removed the races.  I simply posted this so people posting on this topic can see the results and have a chance to vote.

i am sorry to have misjudged your intent

Modifié par element eater, 01 novembre 2012 - 07:53 .

[element eater]

Face of Evil wrote...

I just wanna note that removing race choice in Dragon Age is not quite the same thing as removing it in, say, Dungeons and Dragons. In D&D, there's a whole Burger King Kid's Club of race options (Yahtzee's joke, not mine) for use with your character. From just the three Player's Handbooks, you can be a human, dwarf, elf, half-elf, halfling, dragonborn, tiefling, gnome, goliath, shifter, minotaur, githzerai, wilden or shardmind. And that's not even counting monster race options or races in supplemental materials.

In Dragon Age, the race options are human, elf and dwarf. That's it. And both the elves and the dwarves are dying races, with humans far outnumbering both. The chances of a qunari protagonist are slim, as their mindset is just weird. That just leaves darkspawn, which are the baddies of this setting and about as far removed from a human's mindset as you can possibly get.

I know that if all you eat is bread and water, the option to have bread with jam or bread with butter may seem like a big deal. But in the end, it's still just bread and water.

i dont realy understand what your getting at are you saying that because there less races in DAO that it becomes less desirable? 

[Face of Evil]

I'm saying there wasn't much race variety to begin with and so little has been lost.

I'm not saying a lack of race options is a bad thing.

[LinksOcarina]

element eater wrote...

Face of Evil wrote...

I just wanna note that removing race choice in Dragon Age is not quite the same thing as removing it in, say, Dungeons and Dragons. In D&D, there's a whole Burger King Kid's Club of race options (Yahtzee's joke, not mine) for use with your character. From just the three Player's Handbooks, you can be a human, dwarf, elf, half-elf, halfling, dragonborn, tiefling, gnome, goliath, shifter, minotaur, githzerai, wilden or shardmind. And that's not even counting monster race options or races in supplemental materials.

In Dragon Age, the race options are human, elf and dwarf. That's it. And both the elves and the dwarves are dying races, with humans far outnumbering both. The chances of a qunari protagonist are slim, as their mindset is just weird. That just leaves darkspawn, which are the baddies of this setting and about as far removed from a human's mindset as you can possibly get.

I know that if all you eat is bread and water, the option to have bread with jam or bread with butter may seem like a big deal. But in the end, it's still just bread and water.

i dont realy understand what your getting at are you saying that because there less races in DAO that it becomes less desirable? 

I think what he is trying to say is that due to their being less races in the Dragon Age world, the option to have a race-specific protagonist is not a major issue because the degree of choice is not wide open. 

Which is a fair argument, but not good argument for or against anything. That said, I am kind of glad that there are no Wilden or Dragonborn or random races such as that here to contend with. It's hard enough to make both the elves and dwarves in a fantasy game distinct, and most settings seem to just throw them in there because it "screams" fantasy to them.

Of course, fantasy is what you make of it. Races don't equate fantasy, but its easy to make a world fantasy by having races to represent diversity.

A better argument would be to say Thedas has nations that grant diversity, hence why backgrounds look more desirable to me. 

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

It bothers me that some of the origin-specific stuff is so anticlimactic.

Dwarf Commoner: Leske, after you come back to Orzammar. If I remember right, he basically just shrugs his shoulders and says something like "Well, you were gone. Guy's gotta eat." and proceeds to attack you. No dialog afterward either.

Dwarf Noble: It's a shame the only way to talk to Bhelen before the final Orzammar decision is to side with him.

Human Noble: Arl Howe just has a couple of extra lines. If you marry Queen Anora, there's no way tell whether or not there's any feelings there. I like to hope there is. Nobody has a clue where Fergus is until the game is over. Nobody in Awakening acknowledges you as the spouse of a monarch. Howe claims to be the Teryn of Highever right to your face, and Ser Cauthrien calls you a churl. I still think she's hawt, though. The voice helps.

City Elf: You don't get to return to the alienage until after you gather the armies and rescue the queen. You can save your father, but not poor Valendrian. Well, at least Shianni's safe. I thought the dialog with her in the alienage when you're leading the armies against the darkspawn was sweet. It's an even better moment if you choose the Dalish to defend the alienage.

Dalish Elf: The clan that you meet is an entirely different clan.

Mage: Extremely little origin-specific dialog when you return to the mage tower.

I guess that's probably why they decided to go all-human with the sequels. I still think the DA: Origins way is better. If I had a choice, I'd rather be a dwarf. Not one of those beardless ones either. I want my character to be a tough dwarven warrior with a two-handed axe, a long beard, and a thick Scottish accent. I doubt it will ever happen in this series though.

I also hate this "humans are special" thing that Bioware has going on.  It was absolutely obnoxious in Mass Effect, especially Mass Effect 3.  Humans, Earth, etc... As if the other races could go extinct for all Shepard cares.

Modifié par Neverwinter_Knight77, 03 novembre 2012 - 01:18 .

[Brohammed]

Neverwinter_Knight77 wrote...

It bothers me that some of the origin-specific stuff is so anticlimactic.

Dwarf Commoner: Leske, after you come back to Orzammar. If I remember right, he basically just shrugs his shoulders and says something like "Well, you were gone. Guy's gotta eat." and proceeds to attack you. No dialog afterward either.

Dwarf Noble: It's a shame the only way to talk to Bhelen before the final Orzammar decision is to side with him.

Human Noble: Arl Howe just has a couple of extra lines. If you marry Queen Anora, there's no way tell whether or not there's any feelings there. I like to hope there is. Nobody has a clue where Fergus is until the game is over. Nobody in Awakening acknowledges you as the spouse of a monarch. Howe claims to be the Teryn of Highever right to your face, and Ser Cauthrien calls you a churl. I still think she's hawt, though. The voice helps.

City Elf: You don't get to return to the alienage until after you gather the armies and rescue the queen. You can save your father, but not poor Valendrian. Well, at least Shianni's safe. I thought the dialog with her in the alienage when you're leading the armies against the darkspawn was sweet. It's an even better moment if you choose the Dalish to defend the alienage.

Dalish Elf: The clan that you meet is an entirely different clan.

Mage: Extremely little origin-specific dialog when you return to the mage tower.

I guess that's probably why they decided to go all-human with the sequels. I still think the DA: Origins way is better. If I had a choice, I'd rather be a dwarf. Not one of those beardless ones either. I want my character to be a tough dwarven warrior with a two-handed axe, a long beard, and a thick Scottish accent. I doubt it will ever happen in this series though.

I also hate this "humans are special" thing that Bioware has going on.  It was absolutely obnoxious in Mass Effect, especially Mass Effect 3.  Humans, Earth, etc... As if the other races could go extinct for all Shepard cares.

Good post. Agreed with most points.

It's such an interesting and fairly unique concept that - while hit and miss - has amazing potential.

So irrational to just throw it into the trash and go human only "because".

Oh well. I hope they release at least some good news.

[Dino]

 Oh darn. I thought we were going to be an Asari. 

[Shadow Fox]

Face of Evil wrote...

I'm saying there wasn't much race variety to begin with and so little has been lost.

I'm not saying a lack of race options is a bad thing.

Well it is if you enjoyed playing as a non human.

[nos_astra]

What was so enjoyable about that? The race/origin mattered very little once you'd left the tutorial level behind. It was still mostly cosmetic.

[Felya87]

klarabella wrote...

What was so enjoyable about that? The race/origin mattered very little once you'd left the tutorial level behind. It was still mostly cosmetic.

Playng the first part of the game, the Origins, in the shoes of a City Elf or a Castless Dwarf, give the player a different point of view in the lore of DA.
it's true that during the game, if you don't consider when the PC return to his/her home is not so important his/her races, if not for some dialogues, but you still have the illusion to seeing the world from a different point of view. A Human Noble could care less about what happened in the Alienage. He/she don't know or care about how the Elf are treated by the Human. A City Elf or a Dalish could roar revenge for their kind.

it help immersion. and in the DA lore, where race matter, is great have the chance to create a non human character.

[Bernhardtbr]

Yeah, if it "mattered little after the tutorial" it´s because writting even more dialogue and more quests would be very time consuming, in a game that already has TONS of dialogue. It has nothing to do with it being a poor choice on the part of the developers. Everyone loves variety specially because it gives more replayability.

[Mello]

DavorTheDragon wrote...

 Oh darn. I thought we were going to be an Asari. 

+1

[element eater]

klarabella wrote...

What was so enjoyable about that? The race/origin mattered very little once you'd left the tutorial level behind. It was still mostly cosmetic.

it doesnt need to change alot in game to be enjoyable why should it. thats like asking why people enjoy visual customisation or gender selection. Because people want to play as a certain type of character

Modifié par element eater, 04 novembre 2012 - 12:11 .

[Felya87]

DavorTheDragon wrote...

 Oh darn. I thought we were going to be an Asari. 

I hope in ME4...

[Asdrubael Vect]

i am think that it is not to hard for bioware to give us choose the elf race....especially the ex- circle mage/son of the tevinter magister(elf magister), or Orleas/Ferelden city elf.....just thinking....

1)the elf are universal like humans, they can be....rogue/warrior/mage....

2)the elf's(expecially city elf's) are numerous in tedas....and this is also they war(unlike the dwarves(i like them,but still...) who can not even be the mage or the templar(the lirium has no effect of them...except madnes if it's red lirium)

3)if the inquisition have options for be the mage....that means that inquisitor mages are ex-circle mages...and we knows that that would be the elf's

4)if Templars separated from the Chantry, they confront mages and daemons massively invade to Tedas....Why they(and inqusitors) should not take non-mage elf's warriors/rogue-assasins who really believe in Maker, and wants to stop the "evil" mages and demons?....

5)the many elf's of thedas has a real political/social influence, for example..the elf's Gray Wardens(especially knight-commanders like Fiona and the others)....the elf's first enchanters.....the elf's magisters of tevinter empire.....the elf's slave traders(like Devera in DA;O).....

6)if the hero would be the elf....I do not think it will take another actor for the character voice acting....that both races voice is almost identical(of course they identical...the actors are human), except for some accent, and if the elf from alianage/circle(any non-dalish)...then he should not have accent

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 05 novembre 2012 - 10:10 .

[Dr. wonderful]

I actually don't care for the ability to only play as an Human as Long as they aren't hyped up with REALLY corny videos.

I do like the Background information though, really nice.

[Potato Cat]

I'll reserve any further disappointment until we find out more about the backgrounds and how these will affect the story. Hopefully, there's lots of choice/diversity and some are really interesting, rather than just Circle Mage or Common Thief and they're more like Magister Apprentice or Tal-Vashoth.

And to those saying the origin didn't impact later game, I just replayed Origins again, and in nearly every area I visited, about three characters commented on my elfiness, or lack of long legs and boring ears.

[Shadow Fox]

klarabella wrote...

What was so enjoyable about that? The race/origin mattered very little once you'd left the tutorial level behind. It was still mostly cosmetic.

What's so enjoyable about playing as a different gender or skin color?The former is just a model and voice change and a few dialouge tweaks the later is purely cosmetic and has no impact whatsoever

The answer is because people like doing it. Some people like Elves,Dwarves,Orcs,Trolls etc and enjoy playing as them simple as that I do find it weird people keep asking for justifacation regarding it.

[Sol Downer]

Hate that I can't be an elf...I mean I seriously hate it. Like...my hate is so overpowering right now. But I'll still by DA: I

[Asepsis]

I thought the different races made the game feel a lot different. People spoke to you differently, treated you character differently, at least at first, etc.

I enjoyed DA:O AND DA2 (DA:O more). I hope that since they are not bringing back the various races, they create in depth human origins. I know that in the original concept of DA:O They were going to have two or three human origins(Noble, commoner and another one?). That would be interesting to me.

[silentassassin264]

Neverwinter_Knight77 wrote...

It bothers me that some of the origin-specific stuff is so anticlimactic.

Dwarf Commoner: Leske, after you come back to Orzammar. If I remember right, he basically just shrugs his shoulders and says something like "Well, you were gone. Guy's gotta eat." and proceeds to attack you. No dialog afterward either.

Dwarf Noble: It's a shame the only way to talk to Bhelen before the final Orzammar decision is to side with him.

Human Noble: Arl Howe just has a couple of extra lines. If you marry Queen Anora, there's no way tell whether or not there's any feelings there. I like to hope there is. Nobody has a clue where Fergus is until the game is over. Nobody in Awakening acknowledges you as the spouse of a monarch. Howe claims to be the Teryn of Highever right to your face, and Ser Cauthrien calls you a churl. I still think she's hawt, though. The voice helps.

City Elf: You don't get to return to the alienage until after you gather the armies and rescue the queen. You can save your father, but not poor Valendrian. Well, at least Shianni's safe. I thought the dialog with her in the alienage when you're leading the armies against the darkspawn was sweet. It's an even better moment if you choose the Dalish to defend the alienage.

Dalish Elf: The clan that you meet is an entirely different clan.

Mage: Extremely little origin-specific dialog when you return to the mage tower.

I guess that's probably why they decided to go all-human with the sequels. I still think the DA: Origins way is better. If I had a choice, I'd rather be a dwarf. Not one of those beardless ones either. I want my character to be a tough dwarven warrior with a two-handed axe, a long beard, and a thick Scottish accent. I doubt it will ever happen in this series though.

I also hate this "humans are special" thing that Bioware has going on.  It was absolutely obnoxious in Mass Effect, especially Mass Effect 3.  Humans, Earth, etc... As if the other races could go extinct for all Shepard cares.

The reason I liked the origins so much was not just because of how you the game responded to you when you reached a certain area, it was because it made the story larger than just humans, it affected everyone.  In Dragon Age: Origins, you got to see how the alienage was, how the Dalish lived, life in Orzammar, etc.  You could see could see Thedas from everywhere.  In DA2, the alienage was poorly defined and there was next to no interaction there.  The Dalish were alien and you don't get anymore Dalish lore.  There was no Orzammar but the surface dwarves, the Merchant's Guild in Kirkwall, get no exposition whatsover.  Pretty much anything heard about how the Dwarves are working is overheard from party banter involving Varric.  

From DA:O to DA2 the world of Thedas was reduced to a tiny sliver.  Only human politics and issues mattered.  How do the Dalish respond to this upheaval in the Chantry?  Who knows.  How do the Dwarves deal with this as this should definintely affect the lyrium trade and the entire dwarven economy?  Who knows.  You only get the story from one point of view when Thedas is much more than that.  It would be something if in DAO it ignored the point of view from everyone else and Thedas was only about how humans did human-y things but it wasn't.  Now we can rest assure that in DA3, the Dalish will still be stagnant wanderers unable to find more of their lore or move on to something else.  The Dwarves are going to be just generic backstabbing politics if we even bother to meet a large group.  The story will revolve around humans and the human dealing with the collapse of their human institutions.  

[ManiacG]

^still it would be nice to get to meddle in human affairs as a dwarf or an elf, i absolutly loved the reactions when someone tried to badmouth me because i played as an elf only to back down somewhat fierce when they learned who i was.

One last thought: more options/variation is always a good thing.

[silentassassin264]

That is what I am saying. We will not even get to see how these human affairs affect anything as a dwarf or elf. The game will be completely humancentric like Dragon Age 2. Having multiple human backgrounds will not change the fact that the other races are going to be on the periphery again.

[Bernhardtbr]

silentassassin264 wrote...

The reason I liked the origins so much was not just because of how you the game responded to you when you reached a certain area, it was because it made the story larger than just humans, it affected everyone.  In Dragon Age: Origins, you got to see how the alienage was, how the Dalish lived, life in Orzammar, etc.  You could see could see Thedas from everywhere.  In DA2, the alienage was poorly defined and there was next to no interaction there.  The Dalish were alien and you don't get anymore Dalish lore.  There was no Orzammar but the surface dwarves, the Merchant's Guild in Kirkwall, get no exposition whatsover.  Pretty much anything heard about how the Dwarves are working is overheard from party banter involving Varric.  

Not to mention the Orzammar part was awesome and probably the best of the "get allies" quests. 

Indeed, the problem is that by narrowing the universe you also narrow the range of characters, situations and quests.