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[Caiden012]

silentassassin264 wrote...

Humans are not necessarily boring though in Dragon Age they are . In Game of Thrones, for example, everyone is human in a fantasy setting and they are exciting. In Dragon Age, humans all kind of run together in a bland mass of blandness. They literally could not tell Hawke was a Ferelden from a Kirkwaller in DA2. It just kind of makes humanity one culture (well two if you count the Imperium which you cannot play as because they are always chaotic evil) that is largely based off of real life and not terribly exciting.

First humans are not the only race. Also A Song of Ice and Fire is much less about its fantasy setting and the world and more about its characters and how they react to the world. The humans are exciting because it is all about them and not the fantasy. I do agree that human culture in DA is pretty boring and DA is not all about humans or a group of characters. It is about an epic story that effects the whole world it takes place in. At least in Origins it was.

[Gusty]

Caiden012 wrote...

First humans are not the only race. Also A Song of Ice and Fire is much less about its fantasy setting and the world and more about its characters and how they react to the world. The humans are exciting because it is all about them and not the fantasy. I do agree that human culture in DA is pretty boring and DA is not all about humans or a group of characters. It is about an epic story that effects the whole world it takes place in. At least in Origins it was.

I think that one of the major reasons DA2 suffered was that we could only see the rising conflict that will be resolved in DA3 through the lens of either a non-mage human or a human mage.  You could make the argument that the conflict with the Chantry and the Circle is something that mainly affects humans, and that is why we are only going to be able to play as a human protaganist.

However, I think that the conflict  is going to be huge enough to engross the whole of Thedas in war.  Everyone will be affected, for one major reason: Renegade Templars.  Renegade Templars will likely sack Dalish camps to root out their Keeper mages and apprentices,  the Dwarves won't be sure whom with to make Lyrium trades, and Rogue Templars may even go so far as to raid Orzammar for their needed lyrium...

Maybe I'm wrong, but that seems like a conflict to affect everyone.  Oh, sure, by the end of it human culture will have been the most changed by it, but a WAR affects everyone in proximity. And from the size of the game's overworld, I'd say that everyone is going to take hits.

 Either side is justifiable.  I would just much prefer that we have more racial choices.  Plus, I so want to play a Kossith mage. SO MUCH.

[silentassassin264]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

Not everyone. There are giants too, and the Children of the Forest. And zombies. But I get the point you are trying to make. xp

I was going to but "almost" but I figured no one would correct me.  I stand corrected. 

Caiden012 wrote...

First humans are not the only race. Also A Song of Ice and Fire is much less about its fantasy setting and the world and more about its characters and how they react to the world. The humans are exciting because it is all about them and not the fantasy. I do agree that human culture in DA is pretty boring and DA is not all about humans or a group of characters. It is about an epic story that effects the whole world it takes place in. At least in Origins it was.

That is is the problem.  In Dragon Age: Origins, it was not about the fantasy setting.  In fact the story was near identical to Game of Thrones with civil war over the not quite Iron Throne and the Darkspawn/Whitewalkers coming from the South/North with the Grey Warden/Night's Watch getting ignored.  It was about all the different factions and how they reacted to what was going on.  That is why the humans being boring was tolerable.  You still got the variety and reaction to the world but from largely the other races, not by making each race terribly diverse.  DA2 and what DAI looks to be pushing that whole characters reacting to the world aside and making it one story from one perspective.  That drastically changes what you can tell storywise and is a departure from [what I liked about] Origins.

[Sir George Parr]

Its not a problem for me. With DAO i played that game continually for a year only time i my life i have being that captivated with a game. Over this time i started to prefer to play it as a human character. Sometimes going back to the Dalish elf, if i wanted to spice things up a bit.
So going into DA2 with just Hawke felt a natural evolution to me. Liked Hawke a lot more than i thought i would. So with the Open ended nature of the ending with DA 2, I always come away from the game wanting more of Hawke. So if its going to be another Human protagonist its not an issue. Where as the story of the Warden was satisfactorily played out in Origins.

Modifié par XM-417, 04 janvier 2013 - 11:53 .

[harmoniousk]

If only being able to play a human means that there will be more varied reactions based on our specialization choices (like choosing to be a blood mage, for instance), then I say "human it is".

[ReD BaKen9]

VERY disappointing to know. And if there is no origin story like in DA:O that is even MORE DISAPPOINTING.

[Xetto]

Never played anything but human anyways, fine by me.

[Necrotron]

I will say that I was excited about Dragon Age II prior to release because of the voiced protagonist, because of how successful Shepard was a character in Mass Effect. And largely, I did enjoy it, because I am a sucker for voice acting.

However, I found I also really did miss the flexibility of playing the game multiple times to play each different race/origin, which was the reason Dragon Age: Origins style still remains superior in my mind. Being able to be and roleplay as an Elf, a Dwarf, etc. really opened up sooo many more options for defining who your character was and justifying making different decisions throughout the game. I will miss the option to play one of the ostracized elves in DA III.

Modifié par Bathaius, 01 décembre 2012 - 04:06 .

[Obrusnine]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Numbers speak for themselves, and Skyrim has sold more copies than DA:O, DA2, ME, ME2 and ME3 put together. That would seem to indicate that Bethesda understand some basic desires common in roleplayers that Bioware do not. Therefore, no matter the many other weaknesses in the TES games, the player is able to create excactly the character they like.

...because Skyrim trounces the crap out of DAO too...

Sorry, I just can't help but say absolutely not to this. Skyrim is a fantastic game, but it had a horribly buggy launch and it has it's problems. The main story is way too linear for a game that focuses so much on player choice, the voice acting ranges from god-awful to okay but is almost never good, most of the side-missions just really aren't that interesting, the main story is not that good...

Basically, I think you're short-changing DAO. DAO had a fantastic main plot and a varied storyline with multiple endings and paths the player can take (storywise) with great tactical gameplay. It also has the top-notch voice acting I expect out of all Bioware games.

I'm sorry, this is pretty off-topic. I just couldn't help it after I read that and totally couldn't believe you would say that, lol

I don't mind being forced to play a human. I actually play as a human in every game anyways. Trying to play as another race just kind of disconnects me from immersion, because I can't play this game and say... "Hey, that's who I am. That character IS me."

I'm not a Dwarf or an Elf, so it just makes it odd to me to play as one.

[upsettingshorts]

He's talking about sales.

[Obrusnine]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

He's talking about sales.

Ah, I see. I honestly wasn't sure what he was talking about, but I guess that's what happens when your up for 28 hours straight and hate both energy drinks and coffee.

[Lord Athena]

I had high hopes that BioWare were going to bring back playable races and was crushed when I found out that it was going to be another human again... For me thats a big thing I enjoy about rpg/fantasy type games. I was really hoping to be able to play as an elf or any other non-human race. Not just because of the slightly different look, but because of culture differences and story.

Huge disappointment when I found out this news and even more so when I learned the developers don't even plan to consider changing it. Seeing that 51.3% support playable races and 48.7% don't really care, most likely means we won't be seeing them ever again.

Just seems like such a waste of good story writing and character development from completely different and interesting beings set in a fictional fantasy themed setting. The whole reason of playing in a fantasy genre is playing the alien, scary and beautiful races that we wished we were a part of.

I guess it will be a pass for me as well, but may check now and again to see if there is any plans on changing this. I have little hope however..

Modifié par Lord Athena, 01 décembre 2012 - 09:49 .

[hussey 92]

this sucks

[Welkin_Ghunter]

I call this lazy. I think the reason they did this in DA2 and will do so in DA3 is less work yes it´s a lazy of them no other excuse.

Having different races did works in all the elder scrolls game it works in never winter nights 1 and 2 it worked in Dragon age why could it not work in DA2 or DA3? Because they are lazy now or because EA is a bunch of Dark spawns.

Let CCP or Majong make the game at least they listen to their fans because they want to make a game there fans love and not hate because they want money.

[Skye Evergreene]

kinda upsetting, really. I liked how being an elf really effected your game in Origins, and I was really upset that I couldn't be an elf in DA:2.
Oh well, its not THAT bad lol.
Still can't wait for this game!

[Sevec]

I can live with it, but I'd love to be able to play an elf or dwarf again. Still, I'd rather Bioware focus on things like story and varied armor and clothes for the protagonist. And obviously good voice acting and dialogue.

[Saraphial]

I really don't mind that the protagonist is required to be human as long as the "background" we choose for our characters is able to affect the actions and reactions taking place during the game.

I think the main reason why many fans would like to have the ability to play as multiple races boils down to the aspect that it allows the background for each character created to be much more diverse and dynamic. Example: a female human noble character and a male human street-rat will have mildly different perspectives and reactions from NPC's (hopefully) but a female qunari mage character would be a drastically different experience from either of the other characters.

Basically, the two major factors for this aspect of the game come down to 1.) replayability if I choose a different background and 2.)the extent of different options and experiences that will be available based on what background I chose

If these things can still be achieved with a protagonist that can only be human, then I really don't care about not being able to play as a different race.

[TCBC_Freak]

Yeah, all games with human protagonists suck and have bad stories. And books and movies too while we're at it

Uncharted, Batman: Arkham City, Heavy Rain, Harry Potter (human mages, what consolation is that?), Star Wars; KotOR, , Mass Effect, Fallout, Infamous, L.A. Noire, Dishonored... I could go one, but do I really need to cause, yeah, all those games suck and have bad stories...

Let's get some perspective here, Bioware can tell an awesome story using just a human, you got spoiled by DA:O but that's not required or even actually helpful (they have to spend more time crafting a bunch of sort stories that are "the same but...," instead of telling one really good long story) in telling a story. Most games use it as a gimmick, like Skyrim, what changes because of race? Honestly? DA:O is one of the only games that made it at all important and even then it wasn't that important after the first hour.

Modifié par TCBC_Freak, 03 décembre 2012 - 02:44 .

[Swanzo]

Sounds like DA3 will be as horrible as DA2 to me. Bioware just sucks now.

Modifié par Swanzo, 16 décembre 2012 - 07:48 .

[upsettingshorts]

Swanzo wrote...

Sounds like DA3 will be as horrible as DA2 to me. Bioware just sucks now.

Since 2003, BioWare has made precisely one single-player game with the option of racial choice in character creation.

That's one out of seven.  One out of eight if you count Dragon Age 3.

So if it "sucks now" because of this, it's "sucked for a decade" including before it was bought by Electronic Arts.  There goes that narrative.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 16 décembre 2012 - 08:01 .

[yeti_magi]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Since 2003, BioWare has made precisely one single-player game with the option of racial choice in character creation.

That's one out of seven.  One out of eight if you count Dragon Age 3.

So if it "sucks now" because of this, it's "sucked for a decade" including before it was bought by Electronic Arts.  There goes that narrative.

fair point - and going further back, race choice pretty much only had mechanical significance in the Baldur's Gate series.  of course, i am in the pen-and-paper geezer camp and the grand old mod community camp (in the sense that idgaf how long things take to prepare as long as everyone takes the immersion seriously, or at least cleverly/entertainingly non-seriously), and actual roleplaying has always been of the highest value to my sensibilities.

it's a pity that so many players don't seem to have the time/inclination to sample alternative 'raceplay', but this is certainly not BioWare's fault, especially since they made the not-insignificant effort to distinguish Thedas' dwarven and elven cultures for Origins (which surely could have been simplified by merely having nonhuman companions available to provide nonhuman perspective to a human-only Warden).  i would be more interested in seeing the genuine xenophobes come out of the woodwork when, say, a convincing announcement is made that the next DA or ME title will feature only a nonhuman player character.  then at least we could get a better idea of how many a) take their fantasy seriously, place their personal fantasies above larger creativity, c) should be banned from all RPG-flavored material forever (j/k!  i wish...).

and since i am also in the "defy tl;dr" camp, here is an excerpt from Ralph Koster's 'postmortem' laments, to which i am entirely sympathetic in these sorts of discussions:

I used to think that a richer, more challenging game would be rewarded. I am no longer sure that is the case. I think that had we just made the same game we had made previously, only bigger, that [REDACTED] would probably have done much better. The market, and more particularly the players, don't reward experimentation very much. More people are willing to do the same repetitive activity over and over again ... than are willing to engage in a broader range of activity. This is evident industry-wide, to my mind, and I am not saying to slam on [REDACTED] (especially not given that I work for [REDACTED] now). More as a comment on the audience in general--most people want mere entertainment, stuff that is easy to cope with. Stuff that doesn't make them ask questions of themselves. Witness TV and movies and books, all of which are mostly affirmations that "you're doing the right thing" or "whatever you do is normal compared to THIS."

Modifié par yeti_magi, 16 décembre 2012 - 09:23 .

[Rawgrim]

Its still a step back, when you remove choices the players had in the first game. Had the series had no racial options in the first game, there wouldn`t have been a fuss.

[AlexJK]

Rawgrim wrote...

Its still a step back, when you remove choices the players had in the first game. Had the series had no racial options in the first game, there wouldn`t have been a fuss.

No matter how many times this argument is raised, it still doesn't make sense. The inclusion of something in Origins really has no bearing whatsoever over its inclusion (*NOT* removal) in subsequent games. Otherwise we would have *the same game every time* wouldn't we?

[rapscallioness]

yeti_magi wrote...

I used to think that a richer, more challenging game would be rewarded. I am no longer sure that is the case. I think that had we just made the same game we had made previously, only bigger, that [REDACTED] would probably have done much better. The market, and more particularly the players, don't reward experimentation very much. More people are willing to do the same repetitive activity over and over again ... than are willing to engage in a broader range of activity. This is evident industry-wide, to my mind, and I am not saying to slam on [REDACTED] (especially not given that I work for [REDACTED] now). More as a comment on the audience in general--most people want mere entertainment, stuff that is easy to cope with. Stuff that doesn't make them ask questions of themselves. Witness TV and movies and books, all of which are mostly affirmations that "you're doing the right thing" or "whatever you do is normal compared to THIS."

You knooowww, Idk who this Ralph guy is exactly, but this statement here kinda pisses me off. I'd say this kinda comment is more a reflection on the game dev. Look down their noses at video games. It just smacks of elitism. "Mere entertainment", indeed. Yeah, fckr. Imagine that. What a friggin genius you are to deduce that I buy a game to be entertained.

I guess making videos games these days is really beneath the game dev. Cuz of course these shallow, misguided gamers are holding them back from fulfilling their true genius. Psssh.

Matter of fact, I found the option to play  diff races Fun. It was a brand new thing to me. I don't see that in most SP AAA games. I would have liked to have seen the option in DA3. Hopefully they'll do something like that in DA4? I think most gamers will roll a human the first time cuz it is a new idea to them.

Everything after really depends on whether, or not the player even finishes the game. Alot don't. Regardless of race. Or, they play it only once...as a human. I don't think players are so adverse to playing diff races--as exampled by the mmo's--. It's just they'll choose to enter an unfamiliar world in familiar shoes. The first time. If players actually played the game more often, I think we'd see a higher level of ppl choosing diff races to roll.

[Felya87]

AlexJK wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Its still a step back, when you remove choices the players had in the first game. Had the series had no racial options in the first game, there wouldn`t have been a fuss.

No matter how many times this argument is raised, it still doesn't make sense. The inclusion of something in Origins really has no bearing whatsoever over its inclusion (*NOT* removal) in subsequent games. Otherwise we would have *the same game every time* wouldn't we?

I don't get why playable races shouldn't have been expected in a sequel of a game that give that option. After all, it was one of the distinctive features of DA:O. And DA2 was the first sequel who take back such a feature. I really don't know other games who take back playble races after the first game...
it would be like Assassin's Creed taking away the Leap Of Faith, the Assassin's blaide, the eagle vision and the Animus...all features who make the brand, with the Assassin/Templar war...

I can be wrong however.

I'm still really disappointed about the choise of another Human protagonist...could't be another race, just to change a little?