Aller au contenu

Photo

Dragon Age 3 to use a human protagonist


3855 réponses à ce sujet

#3076
Asdrubael Vect

Asdrubael Vect
  • Members
  • 1 513 messages

AlexJK wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Its still a step back, when you remove choices the players had in the first game. Had the series had no racial options in the first game, there wouldn`t have been a fuss.

No matter how many times this argument is raised, it still doesn't make sense. The inclusion of something in Origins really has no bearing whatsoever over its inclusion (*NOT* removal) in subsequent games. Otherwise we would have *the same game every time* wouldn't we?

but then it turns out that we play again in "the same DA 2" your arguments say only this is even though you have not figured it:)

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 04 janvier 2013 - 09:57 .


#3077
AlexJK

AlexJK
  • Members
  • 816 messages

Felya87 wrote...

I don't get why playable races shouldn't have been expected in a sequel of a game that give that option. After all, it was one of the distinctive features of DA:O.

Racial selection wasn't a distinctive feature of DAO; origin stories were. Without the playable origins, the racial selection mechanic is simply a way of making your character look slightly different.

As to why you shouldn't expect them in a sequel; it's the same reason why you wouldn't expect the "gather your armies" plot/mechanic to feature in every future Dragon Age game - because they are new games, with new gameplay, characters and stories, and mechanics will be included if they are needed, not just because they exist.

#3078
Asdrubael Vect

Asdrubael Vect
  • Members
  • 1 513 messages

AlexJK wrote...

Felya87 wrote...

I don't get why playable races shouldn't have been expected in a sequel of a game that give that option. After all, it was one of the distinctive features of DA:O.

Racial selection wasn't a distinctive feature of DAO; origin stories were. Without the playable origins,  is simply a way of making your character

As to why you shouldn't expect them in a sequel; it's the same reason why you wouldn't expect the "gather your armies" plot/mechanic to feature in every future Dragon Age game - because they are new games, with new gameplay, characters and stories, and mechanics will be included if they are needed, not just because they exist.

1)in DA 3 we not have any playable origins story ...they just "wrote on a card".

2)in DA 3we not have any the racial selection mechanic, and making OUR character  look slightly different..... we just get another Hawke/Shepard 2.0

and after all these things do not like anyone

and where is the "new game"...this is just DA 2 with some cosmetic option and damn multiplayer

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 04 janvier 2013 - 10:53 .


#3079
AlexJK

AlexJK
  • Members
  • 816 messages

Dark Korsar wrote...

and where is the "new game"...this is just DA 2 with some cosmetic option

It's a new game because it's a new game. Different story, different characters. Even comes in a different box and everything. What point are you trying to make?

#3080
zyntifox

zyntifox
  • Members
  • 712 messages

AlexJK wrote...

Felya87 wrote...

I don't get why playable races shouldn't have been expected in a sequel of a game that give that option. After all, it was one of the distinctive features of DA:O.

Racial selection wasn't a distinctive feature of DAO; origin stories were. Without the playable origins, the racial selection mechanic is simply a way of making your character look slightly different.

As to why you shouldn't expect them in a sequel; it's the same reason why you wouldn't expect the "gather your armies" plot/mechanic to feature in every future Dragon Age game - because they are new games, with new gameplay, characters and stories, and mechanics will be included if they are needed, not just because they exist.


I disagree. The race of the protagonist impacts just as much as the background of how i will roleplay him/her.

#3081
AlexJK

AlexJK
  • Members
  • 816 messages

Cstaf wrote...

I disagree. The race of the protagonist impacts just as much as the background of how i will roleplay him/her. 

I'm sure it does, when that choice is available to you and the main character's background and history is necessarily generic (or irrelevant to the main story of the game) to allow for your roleplaying freedom.

When that choice isn't available, and/or when the character has a better-established background within the story of the game (eg. Hawke's noble history in Kirkwall), then you have to roleplay within those guidelines.

Modifié par AlexJK, 04 janvier 2013 - 11:54 .


#3082
B3NGU1N

B3NGU1N
  • Members
  • 43 messages
I admit, I would of liked to have more than just humans playable, but to be really honest its only , for me at least, for visual purposes. Race doesn't define personality, so I can still roleplay the character however I want.

Whats more important to me is the choices in the actual main game. I liked the Origin stories a lot, I really did, but if I get more choices later in the game, then thats fair enough.

#3083
daft inquisitor

daft inquisitor
  • Members
  • 266 messages

Allan Schumacher wrote...

In your opinion anyway. In mine, humans are deceitful, power hungery jerks whom goal is to enslave anything that's coherently self-aware. Personally an elf seems more "heroic"


I guess we just need to stop hiding the deceitful, power hungry elves then.

Like that jerk Dalish from DA:O?  Yeah, he was really well hidden. :whistle:

People see what they want to see. I'm with Bioware on this one. 

EDIT: Sorry, that quote was from about a month back. It was just the last time a dev Bioware employee posted in the thread, and I felt the need to say something.

Modifié par ShadowDragoonFTW, 04 janvier 2013 - 12:52 .


#3084
FahRENheit06

FahRENheit06
  • Members
  • 207 messages
Do I care that DA3 is human-only? Not especially, and only in an overall criticism to the games industry that isn't exclusive to Bioware: what is with the trend of creating a multitude of species and races, then always focusing on bloody humans? It's like there is no faith in players to explore role playing as something other than what we are. Which is not unreasonable, because I'm sure a lot of us like to make more handsome/beautiful versions of ourselves when it comes to Shepards or Amells or Couslands. But DA2 forced us to not be us, but to be Hawke through our lens (not a criticism, but an observation). So, why not allow us to be a Dalish or dwarf through our lens? Bioware is just admitting all their efforts go into humans and let the other interesting races be background to the master human race.

Specific to DA3: We'll see how it pans out. Interesting origins are worth more than a hundred different playable races. To me, DA2 didn't fall flat because it focused on one human, but because of the reused environments, tedious battle structure and very disjointed story arc. That Hawke happened to be human is fairly irrelevant, though I'm sure some of the interactions between Varric and Fenris would have been more interesting as a dwarf or elf.

- Ren

#3085
Guest_Faerunner_*

Guest_Faerunner_*
  • Guests

FahRENheit06 wrote...

Do I care that DA3 is human-only? Not especially, and only in an overall criticism to the games industry that isn't exclusive to Bioware: what is with the trend of creating a multitude of species and races, then always focusing on bloody humans?


I agree completely, though it bothers me more than it botheres you.

I was actually just thinking the other day, "Why is it that in virtually all fantasy games: other races like dwarves and elves used to have expansive empires, but humans are the dominant race when the game takes place? And why do most conflicts take place in human settlements?" I know Tolkien started it, but I'm also a little annoyed that so many fantasy writers are just copying it. (Even Dragon Age, which states that dwarves used to dominate the underground before the darkspawn and elves used to dominate the surface before humans, and 3/4 of DA:O and 4/5 of DA2 having human-centered conflicts.)

I was actually thinking the other day what a nice change of pace it would be if humans weren't the dominant race for once, but just one of many while others like elves and/or dwarves have the expansive dominant empires. Not even have humans as a slave race (as it would still imply that humans are special to the players and the central conflict would still drag back to humans), just kind of average and most settings and conflicts are about other races and kingdoms. (For instance, most of the game takes place in and involves saving an elven kingdom from some epic conflict, and most NPC's you run into are elves, dwarves, and other non-human races.)

But I don't think such a game will be made any time soon because a) players aren't interested in conflicts that aren't specifically about humans, B) the game industry doesn't want to challenge players by presenting them with a story or setting that isn't all about humans, c) if writers were more honest with themselves, I think they share player prejudice. If humans aren't at the center of it, it's not worth writing about or fighting for.

But DA2 forced us to not be us, but to be Hawke through our lens (not a criticism, but an observation). So, why not allow us to be a Dalish or dwarf through our lens? Bioware is just admitting all their efforts go into humans and let the other interesting races be background to the master human race.


It bites, doesn't it? It's such a shame because BioWare has created genuinely interesting races, cultures, and conflicts, yet they're all reduced to bardboard settings for humans to walk through. DA2 frustrates me especially 'cause there are so many interesting racial and cultural conflicts all over the city, yet only the ones that involve humans get any semblance of depth.

Qunari, elves and dwarves only get mentioned when their actions affect humans (Qunari making human nobles and templars uncomfortable, Dalish making humans antsy by hanging around the city, the coterie mugging some poor sap), but otherwise they get at best an off-hand mention once or twice (unnamed elven fanatics lamenting Qunari seducing droves of city elves away from their ancestral culture, elven mages lamenting how they have to deal with the double oppression of being elves and mages, Hawke's buddy Varric having to attend some boring merchant guild meeting), at worst they don't get mentioned at all. Their job is just to stand there and look fantasy-esque so the human player and character can feel like they're in a fantasy setting.

Specific to DA3: We'll see how it pans out. Interesting origins are worth more than a hundred different playable races. To me, DA2 didn't fall flat because it focused on one human, but because of the reused environments, tedious battle structure and very disjointed story arc. That Hawke happened to be human is fairly irrelevant, though I'm sure some of the interactions between Varric and Fenris would have been more interesting as a dwarf or elf.


I actually think Hawke being human contributed to the overall poor game quality. Kirkwall has many different races, cultures, and conflicts from all sides: the coterie, the dwarven merchant's guild, the city elves, the Dalish, the Qunari, the mages (human and elven), the templars, the nobles. But since Hawke (the protagonist) can only be a mage, templar and/or noble, those were the only conflicts that got any sort of depth or exploration. Everything else got left flat as a cardboard cutout, and as liable to fall over.

#3086
The Spirit of Dance

The Spirit of Dance
  • Members
  • 1 537 messages
I disliked being limited to only human protagonists in DA2, while in Origins I had a choice between three different races. My reason for this is because I enjoyed the different origin stories that came with the different races, as well as the bigotry or acceptance I received depending on which race i was.

Another thing I missed the conversations you could have with your companions that changed depending on your race or origin story.

EDIT: I forgot to mention how being a differnet race can affect how you view the world ex: when playing as a city elf, you can grow to hate humans. Though outside of the origin story we didnt get to explore that 'hatred' much. :?

Modifié par supremebloodwolf, 04 janvier 2013 - 06:27 .


#3087
Huntress

Huntress
  • Members
  • 2 464 messages

Faerunner wrote...

I agree completely, though it bothers me more than it botheres you.

I was actually just thinking the other day, "Why is it that in virtually all fantasy games: other races like dwarves and elves used to have expansive empires, but humans are the dominant race when the game takes place?


The answer is simple: The older races like dwarves and Elves do not care for younger race. they'll either ignore it or try to enslave it, either way is bad. other thing older races birth rate is very low, humans breed "faster" because they die faster..err.. faster than dwarves or elves that it. Thats why they can conquer the other races.. numbers.

Humans are created with the same traits and qualities as the older races but they can't live for more than X years, elves if not killed were immortal, so their birth rate was very low, didn't age or get sick and dwarves.. well they are tough son's.. :lol: and suffer the same fate as elves, low birth rates.

#3088
Cell1e

Cell1e
  • Members
  • 376 messages

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Discuss how this makes you feel here.

Be civil to one another.  Respect that other people have differing opinions, and this works both ways.  So if you LIKE this decision, respect that others are disappointed by it.

Rather than closing threads I'll try talking with posters whom I think are crossing the line.


Yes not good NOT to have a choice of beginnings. Few game developers ever bothered to give us the choices we got in DAO and wow that sure had a huge impact on me!!!

Have to say I loved being able to play as many of the races as I could. I loved the details and the differences between city, elf country elf, rich dwarf and poor dwarf, mage and priveleged girl. Who's idea was it to give us those experiences? Well they deserve a medal, certainly a little hero worship is in order.

So back to what we might get with da3, it seems to be nothing more than what any other game is or has been and not the big event I would like to say I am looking foward to. Initially I was excited but the more I read about the da3 the less excited I am.

This will teach Bioware for giving us the most amazing gaming experience ever!! Nothing will ever compare I have no doubt.

Modifié par Cell1e, 04 janvier 2013 - 06:32 .


#3089
Guest_Raga_*

Guest_Raga_*
  • Guests
The main problem with a human only PC in Dragon Age 3 is that DA has a good and refreshing take on dwarves and elves that stands out from the uniform high fantasy crowd. Dwarven and elven culture is something I don't just want to watch as a human observer. It's something I want to play in directly because Bioware did a damn good job at it. These awesome, vibrant, and interesting cultures were formed, yet now Bioware is effectively saying "sorry, you can only prod these from the outside to get a reaction...you cannot BE that." Why go through such effort to create such awesome races and then not permit players to engage with that race and lore in the most direct way possible?

This is why race matters to me in DA, because races in DA are unique. They do a heck of a lot more than just give you different stats. It's true you can replicate diversity with different human backgrounds to some degree, but why exclude these races when the lore is already established and there is already a precedent for playing as those races in DAO? It does make the game feel shallower to me and playing as "noble" or "peasant" or whatever still prevents me from participating in cultures that I find WAY more interesting than any yet presented human culture in DA.

Modifié par Ragabul the Ontarah, 04 janvier 2013 - 06:46 .


#3090
Indoctrination

Indoctrination
  • Members
  • 819 messages

David Gaider wrote...

We do make the game with the knowledge that the vast majority of our players only play the game once (if they finish it at all) and thus replayability isn't as high a priority


Don't take this the wrong way, sir, but you should encourage your colleagues to re-examine their priorities. Ultimately, it's the hardcore fans who play through your games multiple times that will be the greatest asset in spreading the good word about how great your game is. If you make games which disappoint these hardcore fans, what happens is that they use their opinion pushing talents to inform everyone who is willing to listen as to how bad your games are.

Designing Dragon Age 3 for consumers who only play your games 40% of the way through ensures that we fans who finished Dragon Age: Origins multiple times will not be pleased, because we likely don't have the same tastes and expectations as the short-attentioned Call of Duty/Skyrim crowd. If you make another game that's not for the fans of Dragon Age: Origins and other great BioWare games, expect a reception similar to the receptions of Dragon Age 2 and Mass Effect 3. Perhaps damage control DLC, like the ending DLC for ME3 can become a regular BioWare staple! Cheers! :wizard:

#3091
dreamgazer

dreamgazer
  • Members
  • 15 752 messages

Indoctrination wrote...

Designing Dragon Age 3 for consumers who only play your games 40% of the way through ensures that we fans who finished Dragon Age: Origins multiple times will not be pleased, because we likely don't have the same tastes and expectations as the short-attentioned Call of Duty/Skyrim crowd.


While I disagree with lumping the crowds together in binary fashion, I strongly agree with the sentiment above in terms of crafting the game for the intended audience.

#3092
In Exile

In Exile
  • Members
  • 28 738 messages

Cstaf wrote...
I disagree. The race of the protagonist impacts just as much as the background of how i will roleplay him/her.


What happens if the game doesn't react to that racial choice? For example, if being elven means that you want to be anti-human, but the game doesn't even recognize that you're an elf the entire time? 

#3093
In Exile

In Exile
  • Members
  • 28 738 messages

supremebloodwolf wrote...

I disliked being limited to only human protagonists in DA2, while in Origins I had a choice between three different races. My reason for this is because I enjoyed the different origin stories that came with the different races, as well as the bigotry or acceptance I received depending on which race i was.


So, hypothetically, if a game had no origin stories and never reacted to your racial background, you would be happy with it? 

#3094
sympathy4sarenreturns

sympathy4sarenreturns
  • Members
  • 885 messages
I didn't know that this was already announced....three months ago by the look of it. I won't waste my time going through and reading the rage. Shows how very little I care for Dragon Age. After the great game that was Dragon Age: Origins, the series has had a swift and rapid decay.

BioWare, you create a fantasy RPG and "again" limit protagonist choice to only humans? Lol really? That is lazy, lazy, lazy...and boring as heck.

I like having choices:

-Argonian
-Khajiit
-Orc
-Altmer
-Dunmer
-Bosmer
-Breton
-Nord
-Redguard
-Imperial

That right there is effort. That right there is choice. And you offer players 'human'?

BORING AND LAZY

#3095
jacobite30

jacobite30
  • Members
  • 1 messages
Lazy. That sucks and shows a lack of vision. They definately don't listen to their fans. And cut out the arcade style play in battle in DA 2. Its an RPG, not the old arcade Street Fighter 2 game.
This gaming world has huge possibilities storyline wise. Even has more than enough ancient history for at least 2 - 3 Pre-Quels using Tevinter Imperium, the Avarr Barbarians, the Qunari and the older Elves that still had their magics and immortality. There are enough old ruins in the DA origins to create the ancient world and large areas of the map from DA origins that are labelled and unexplored. (and even some unlabelled)

#3096
sympathy4sarenreturns

sympathy4sarenreturns
  • Members
  • 885 messages

Caiden012 wrote...

I am just afraid that who we are as a character will be limited. I felt like I really made my own character in DA:O. But in DA2 the second I heard the he would be called Hawke and be a human I knew that he would not be MY character. I do not want the same to happen in DA3.


Oh, it will be limited. You're a human...forced upon you. It's friggin fantasy...all of these races and species who don't exist exist in it, but they force you to be human. It's pretty sad. And calling it now...they are going to rip traits and make the pc sort of like Geralt the Monster Slayer.

#3097
Nightdragon8

Nightdragon8
  • Members
  • 2 734 messages
i guess the major question would be, how would the different origins come about during the events of DA3. And how would the origins be "recruited" into the Seeker/Chantry order in a freezable way.

I can see city elves getting involved but not the dalish they seem more like the time to get out of the way of the storm and try not to get involed, and if they do they will be on the mages side (because of freedom)

Now with Dwarves you have to ask, Surface or Osimarian(SP) I could see a Surface drawf doing something and working up the ranks, and in reality may even be looked on favorably due to there natural resistance to magic.

While I don't really see one that starts off in the city to be that worried about humans and mages and stuff. About the only thing they would have to be worried about is there lyrium trade. Considering both templars and mages need it. (templars more for there addiction and mages for being able to turn it into raw firepower)

So I can see Dwarf and city Elf, but not Dalish or Osimar. For the other races and there reasons for being there.

#3098
zyntifox

zyntifox
  • Members
  • 712 messages

In Exile wrote...

Cstaf wrote...
I disagree. The race of the protagonist impacts just as much as the background of how i will roleplay him/her.


What happens if the game doesn't react to that racial choice? For example, if being elven means that you want to be anti-human, but the game doesn't even recognize that you're an elf the entire time? 


Don't understand the example in the context of the question. However, i do not need the game to react to my race at every single turn in the game. That is not why i want multiple races in the game. I want multiple races due to the cultural and historical differences between races opens up new roleplaying possibilities. So if my character i am roleplaying is anti-human i don't want/need the NPC to draw the conclussion that i am anti-human due to he/she being an different race than human. 

#3099
Dutchess

Dutchess
  • Members
  • 3 510 messages

Nightdragon8 wrote...

Now with Dwarves you have to ask, Surface or Osimarian(SP) I could see a Surface drawf doing something and working up the ranks, and in reality may even be looked on favorably due to there natural resistance to magic.

While I don't really see one that starts off in the city to be that worried about humans and mages and stuff. About the only thing they would have to be worried about is there lyrium trade. Considering both templars and mages need it. (templars more for there addiction and mages for being able to turn it into raw firepower)

So I can see Dwarf and city Elf, but not Dalish or Osimar. For the other races and there reasons for being there.


I imagine the mages and ex-templars fighting each other to get their hands on the lyrium that the dwarves provide. Having the biggest supply would greatly increase the changes of one of the parties in the war. Dwarves won't be happy with all those battles on their doorstep and brutes invading their cities to steal lyrium and join the Inquisition to put a stop to the chaos. Something like that.

If you want to, you can come up with something.

Modifié par renjility, 07 janvier 2013 - 10:50 .


#3100
Gamer Ftw

Gamer Ftw
  • Members
  • 917 messages
brokenhearted yet again I miss playing elves.