3855 réponses à ce sujet

[LobselVith8]

Sasie wrote...

There's no reason for them to fight the blight in Ferelden though instead of seeking out the rest of the grey warden when Loghain puts out the bounty.

Of course there is. A Dwarven Warden knows better than anyone how dangerous the darkspawn are, and the threat they pose. The Elven Warden has family and friends in the Denerim Alienage who will die unless he or she does something. The Magi Warden has friends in the Circle of Ferelden, and possibly family in the Alienage (given the flexibility of the player to determine where the Surana Warden came from). There are a plethora of reasons why a specific Warden would stay and combat the Blight, instead of fleeing to Orlais.

Frankly, I felt there were more plausible reasons than there were for an apostate Hawke to stay in the templar capital of eastern Thedas. I think the absence of the racial options is to the detriment of Dragon Age, especially since not everyone shares your fondness for human protagonists in fantasy settings.

[SweQue]

Im glad bioware did this.
A lot of people think this is bad news because they "eliminate options" but really, would a playable Qunari make story wise sense in DA1?
A grey warden Qunari etc? Nah, if the story works much better with a human in DA3 then use it.
Now I don't know much about DA3 or Orlais but maybe it works so much better with a Human then an elf or dwarf etc.
I mean, in dragon age 2 I didnt see any dwarf mages or dwarf templars, did anyone else do that?

Modifié par SweQue, 12 janvier 2013 - 02:32 .

[Wompoo]

SweQue wrote...

Im glad bioware did this.
A lot of people think this is bad news because they "eliminate options" but really, would a playable Qunari make story wise sense in DA1?
A grey warden Qunari etc? Nah, if the story works much better with a human in DA3 then use it.
Now I don't know much about DA3 or Orlais but maybe it works so much better with a Human then an elf or dwarf etc.
I mean, in dragon age 2 I didnt see any dwarf mages or dwarf templars, did anyone else do that?

There is a reason why there are no Dwarf mages... DA:O made that quite clear. As for templars, why on earth would a Dwarf give a rats about human culture, religion or politics (well I guess they make a pretty penny out of the lirium trade for the drugged out Templar addicts, the Chantry being their number 1 supplier and dog handler). I find humans in this game world to deserve all they get. If they had a well crafted Dwarf or Elven story to be told I would grab it before any human hands down, Qunari PC? not even if hell froze over. However I'll take one well crafted race over 2/3 mediocre ones.

[Inquisitor Recon]

I really enjoyed the dwarf origins in DA:O and will miss not having that option. I do wish they'd return to that idea of selectable races in future games, but human seems to be the only class that makes sense if the PC is indeed some sort of Chantry inquisitor. But if being an inquisitor and inquisitions aren't a huge focus, then the lack of such race options would be rather disappointing.

[Rawgrim]

ReconTeam wrote...

I really enjoyed the dwarf origins in DA:O and will miss not having that option. I do wish they'd return to that idea of selectable races in future games, but human seems to be the only class that makes sense if the PC is indeed some sort of Chantry inquisitor. But if being an inquisitor and inquisitions aren't a huge focus, then the lack of such race options would be rather disappointing.

Damn fine avatar pic you have there, Sir.

[Faust1979]

Doesn't bother me in the slightest really

[ianvillan]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

ianvillan wrote...
The bit I was on about was Matthew Goldman at 1:22 talking about Ulric Von Hawke and how all the art should have him on it.

Eh... Matt Goldman is being pretty silly at that point.  It might not be clear to those that don't know him, but he chimes in with quotes like that all the time.  It's important to note that you're still watching a marketing fluff piece.  Going into the details of how it started as Inquisition (a title that wasn't announced for several years later), but then we spun off of it into Exodus (DA2) is beyond its scope.


I know for a fact that the character, Hawke, wasn't determined before Origins was shipped, because two weeks after Origins was shipped, I was put onto our next project (which technically wasn't actually Dragon Age: Exodus [code name for DA2], but shortly after became Exodus and eventually DA2).

Unfortunately I can only ask you to take my word on this, so if you're skeptical that's fine.  Hawke didn't exist until Exodus existed.  Exodus didn't exist until after Origins released, and was something that came out from what our original thoughts towards a sequel were going to be (which was actually Inquisition).

Thank you for replying back to me and I will take your word that Hawke came after Origin shipped. I suppose alot of these problems come from marketing fluff pieces, I know Bioware has heard the complaints about DA2 but I would like to add that Bioware should stop with marketing fluff pieces and just concentrate on whats in the game.

[Galbrant]

Well... I really like playing Dwarves and Humans are too tall. That's what I think OP. I mean I can understand when it comes to a budget... if that's the case then so be it.

[J4N3_M3]

Indoctrination wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

We do make the game with the knowledge that the vast majority of our players only play the game once (if they finish it at all) and thus replayability isn't as high a priority

Don't take this the wrong way, sir, but you should encourage your colleagues to re-examine their priorities. Ultimately, it's the hardcore fans who play through your games multiple times that will be the greatest asset in spreading the good word about how great your game is. If you make games which disappoint these hardcore fans, what happens is that they use their opinion pushing talents to inform everyone who is willing to listen as to how bad your games are.

Designing Dragon Age 3 for consumers who only play your games 40% of the way through ensures that we fans who finished Dragon Age: Origins multiple times will not be pleased, because we likely don't have the same tastes and expectations as the short-attentioned Call of Duty/Skyrim crowd. If you make another game that's not for the fans of Dragon Age: Origins and other great BioWare games, expect a reception similar to the receptions of Dragon Age 2 and Mass Effect 3. Perhaps damage control DLC, like the ending DLC for ME3 can become a regular BioWare staple! Cheers!

I agree with this. I never mind like playing as a human character, but Dragon Age: Origins convinced me as a hardcore scifi-fan, that dwarves and elves aren't that bad at all. And the replayability of the game is important. If I look at how many times I have replayed Mass Effect 1 and even 2, yet have a hard time going through Mass Effect 3 for a second time, I think that compared to all the other games I have, those games are still my favorite BECAUSE of the replayability. It is the hardcore fans after all that do spend money on merchandise. Someone who's played through a game once usually doesn't bother with such things. 

[Zamnil Blackaxe]

I feel this is a non-issue, though I am a dwarf lover and am a little dissapointed that I wont be able to play a dwarf character.

[RevanSGC]

This doesn't bother me. I do hope you'll have the chance to start at different locations aka have different backgrounds. That was such a nice feature in 'Dragon Age', one I really missed in 'Dragon Age 2'. .. Nonetheless, I'm looking forward to the new installment.

[Mantaal]

duckley wrote...

I am happy to play a human. My guess is that for every fan who would like to play an Elf or a Quanri or a Dwarf, there is someone who is happy to play as a human. Origins was about origins - both race and class. DA2 was not about origins. Would I like DA3 to be about origins - personally - that would be cool, but if not... I am good with that.

Its nothing wrong with playing a Human. Its ok you have the option to play one. 
My Problem is the word "option" 
in DA:O you had Options what you want to play. in DA2 you was just Hawke.. end of story. 

I think after the success of Mass Effect ( And i did love the ME games too) they put to much ME into DA. And thats my problem. I loved beeing Shepard on his adventures. But it would be much better to me if ME did go one way and DA did go another. I dont like the Action hack/slay part of the game with Plate warriors swinging 3 meter twohanders with one hand. (ME was half a shooter, Action here is fine) i dont like the Dialog wheel. (Again its cool in an half shooter scifi rpg but to limited for a real RPG) and i dont like the Beard version of Shepard with a Sword, named Hawke. And after all i didnt like the Vocied Charakter. Waste of money in my eyes and limiting the Game to much in many ways because its to expensive. 

I think they limiting Dragonage way to much. DA:O was so cool and had so much potential for future Games and they come up with DA2? Really? With the Races already limited for Human only it seems they still go the DA2 way. Did they not learn from the DA:O and DA2 comunity reviews? 
"Hey guys we have two games released. One was a major success and sold like hell and the other one was not really accepted be the fans and sold much less then the first one. So our plan is to make the 3rd one like the one the fands didnt like very much?" 
Yes its to early to say that but it already worries me that they dont even manage it to make multible Races to play them. 

Modifié par Mantaal, 15 janvier 2013 - 03:36 .

[TallonOverlord]

I dont like the idea of being boxed into one race and one origin story. It was okay with hawk and spiced things up being able to be male or female for the game. But i missed playing a dwarf (i became rather attached to my dwarf noble warden). I like the idea of playing a dwarf again, or an elf, or a human. I'd like to see more branching story line from that and i'd like the race and character option to come back. It would be nice to have them further expanded upon by giving them racial options, such as with a dwarf they can learn to fordge weapons, or an elf can become a tracker or scout with heightened senses. Those sort of personal touches are what i treasured about origins.

[Galbrant]

Well the second game lack playable Dwarves as a option... So that could explain why I didn't pick that one up. Sure the other races are cool and I play them too but the reason I like Origins, because it was one of the few games that let me play fully as a Dwarf that isn't a pen and paper RPG or an MMO.

[TallonOverlord]

Galbrant wrote...

Well the second game lack playable Dwarves as a option... So that could explain why I didn't pick that one up. Sure the other races are cool and I play them too but the reason I like Origins, because it was one of the few games that let me play fully as a Dwarf that isn't a pen and paper RPG or an MMO.

The way 2 was structured having different races for the player would of been difficult. The story was told in past tense which locked you into a "it already happened kinda thing" having different genders for the character was alright because depending on whose telling the story something like that could change. But changing of races would of been impossible with a set character and set origin. Which isnt a bad thing just not what i am really a fan of. It boxes you too much into a corner.  Now are you saying you havent played the second one? because you really should, you'd love varric the signiture dwarf in the game. It really is great to have him in there, he replaces oghren well (though i miss oghren his interactions were great)

Modifié par TallonOverlord, 15 janvier 2013 - 05:19 .

[ianvillan]

I do enjoy playing as Human characters but it is that after a while I get fed up of still having the stories still being about Humans.

I had the same problems with the starwars universe, I loved the original trilogy and would by the new games or comics as they would come out but it got to the point where I got fed up with each new book, comic or game having a human as the main character, there was a huge universe of different races to tell stories about but they still went with humans time and time again.

It is looking like the Dragon age universe is going the same way with each new book, comic and game having a human character as the main star, there are other races and cultures in dragon age yet it just seems that human is the only one that is worth knowing about.

[Galbrant]

TallonOverlord wrote...

Galbrant wrote...

Well the second game lack playable Dwarves as a option... So that could explain why I didn't pick that one up. Sure the other races are cool and I play them too but the reason I like Origins, because it was one of the few games that let me play fully as a Dwarf that isn't a pen and paper RPG or an MMO.

The way 2 was structured having different races for the player. The story was told in past tense which locked you into a "it already happened kinda thing" having different genders for the character was alright because depending on whose telling the story something like that could change. But changing of races would of been impossible with a set character and set origin. Which isnt a bad thing just not what i am really a fan of. It boxes you too much into a corner.  Now are you saying you havent played the second one? because you really should, you'd love varric the signiture dwarf in the game. It really is great to have him in there, he replaces oghren well (though i miss oghren his interactions were great)

I guess so... I'm going to save my money instead and borrow it from my friend. 

[bEVEsthda]

On the original topic:

I think that the main disappointment, in learning that DA3 will have a human protagonist, has nothing to do with that the protagonist will be human.

Rather, my disappointment and sinking heart feeling comes from the confirmation on what kind of game DA3 will be. It will be a game story so elaborately rigid that it requires considerable fixtures.
(For the umpteen time I find myself wondering what they really intend to do different than DA2?)

Other than that, I can't say human protagonist matters. Worst scenario: - This will not be a game that can be saved by the protagonist being a dwarf.

[nicethugbert]

The story dictates ...........

It's not a deal breaker for me. The game is so stripped down in terms of character creation mechanisms that you may as well keep simplifying. What we have now amounts to creatures composed mostly of vestigial appendages.

As things stand now, I wouldn't mind if the ability attributes were scrapped and everything were determined by class and class was narrowly defined. Hell, I wouldn't mind if there were no levels and advancement was focused on obtaining better WMD.

I would rather have finer control of the game's difficulty so that I can consume the content as I please.

All I want is:
1) Whatever the games does, it does it well.
2) That I can zip ahead when I get bored or stuck.

That may sound contradictory, but, I do not believe in perfection and I think it's wiser to hedge bets.

EDIT:  As an after thought, I find that the overwhelming majority of computer/console games suffer from shallowness yet RPGs are supposed to be the opposite of a shallow game and provide the player with great freedom.  There you have it, Bioware.  If you choose to accept this assignment, make it so.

Modifié par nicethugbert, 15 janvier 2013 - 05:04 .

[Mantaal]

TallonOverlord wrote...

Galbrant wrote...

Well the second game lack playable Dwarves as a option... So that could explain why I didn't pick that one up. Sure the other races are cool and I play them too but the reason I like Origins, because it was one of the few games that let me play fully as a Dwarf that isn't a pen and paper RPG or an MMO.

The way 2 was structured having different races for the player would of been difficult. The story was told in past tense which locked you into a "it already happened kinda thing" having different genders for the character was alright because depending on whose telling the story something like that could change. But changing of races would of been impossible with a set character and set origin. Which isnt a bad thing just not what i am really a fan of. It boxes you too much into a corner.  Now are you saying you havent played the second one? because you really should, you'd love varric the signiture dwarf in the game. It really is great to have him in there, he replaces oghren well (though i miss oghren his interactions were great)

And the other way around would not work? Instead if building the story of the game around an Hawke build it around a Player Charakter that could be every race? No one tolt Bioware "You have to make a story about some Human killing everything in a City named Kirkwall" Well i hope so
If it really had to be the story about the conflict between Mages and Templars in Kirkwall it would take around 10 minutes of storywrighting to build the story up for every Race. If you remove the part where you get an City Noble in Kirkwall and give Dwarfes and Elfes another story part here its done and not THAT much work. 

The problem is just the voiced Charakter here. Every word he says costs money so its much more easy to have just a human male or Woman with one name so everyone can just call him/her Hawke. So the whole thing is not a story problem. Its a Money problem for EA. Make the Game as Cheap as possible and sell as much as possible. (Didnt work well in DA2 though)

But i think its kinda strange saying the story didnt allow it. In a story you can make everything happen. Its not a Game about some movie where the story was already tolt in the Cinema. If you make a game about the Lord of the Ring story of the first movie you cant just remove Gandalf and add some Ogre Warrior named Bob to replace him. 
But in a story you make for one Game.. what holds you back to add anything you want?
In DA:O they didnt say there will be no Dwarves or Elves because its a Story about an Human Warden named Shep...uhm Hawke. They made the story for the game that allows what we got. And now its not possible anymore?

And btw i have to disagree the last part too.. If you didnt play DA2.. and if you like RPGs.. you didnt miss anything. You can also check some Youtube Videos about the Combat animation for the laugh and move on. 

Modifié par Mantaal, 15 janvier 2013 - 06:57 .

[xXRazen]

Awesome it is like:

Bioware: "DA:I is going to be the best of DA:O and DA 2"

Fan: "So we can play as different races and have interactive origin stories combined with a tactical overhead combat and deep character customization, many relationships, DIFFERENT endings, a lot of interaction with the world and NPCs, a great story, awesome graphics, your actions actually having an impact on the world and the behaviour of NPCs, the great customizable AI from DA:O and also the menu system?"

Bioware: "No........"

Fan:

Modifié par xXRazen, 15 janvier 2013 - 09:23 .

[unbentbuzzkill]

I too was very disappointed when I heard the news about DA3's protag, But as a die-hard rpg fan it seems very silly to only have one race as a option to play as. But they claim to have statistical data to back-up theit decision. So more power to them but if the game lacks replay value it probably won't sell as well as DA:O, And that was what made DA:O epic replay value.

[AstraDrakkar]

Since Bioware has already decided that the protagonist is gonna be human, my opinion doesn't really matter but here it is anyway. I don't think DA3 is gonna be epic like DAO was because of this limitation but I think it'll be better than DA2. It's not a deal breaker for me but it's disappointing nonetheless.

Modifié par AstraDrakkar, 15 janvier 2013 - 10:57 .

[TallonOverlord]

Mantaal wrote...

TallonOverlord wrote...

Galbrant wrote...

Well the second game lack playable Dwarves as a option... So that could explain why I didn't pick that one up. Sure the other races are cool and I play them too but the reason I like Origins, because it was one of the few games that let me play fully as a Dwarf that isn't a pen and paper RPG or an MMO.

The way 2 was structured having different races for the player would of been difficult. The story was told in past tense which locked you into a "it already happened kinda thing" having different genders for the character was alright because depending on whose telling the story something like that could change. But changing of races would of been impossible with a set character and set origin. Which isnt a bad thing just not what i am really a fan of. It boxes you too much into a corner.  Now are you saying you havent played the second one? because you really should, you'd love varric the signiture dwarf in the game. It really is great to have him in there, he replaces oghren well (though i miss oghren his interactions were great)

And the other way around would not work? Instead if building the story of the game around an Hawke build it around a Player Charakter that could be every race? No one tolt Bioware "You have to make a story about some Human killing everything in a City named Kirkwall" Well i hope so
If it really had to be the story about the conflict between Mages and Templars in Kirkwall it would take around 10 minutes of storywrighting to build the story up for every Race. If you remove the part where you get an City Noble in Kirkwall and give Dwarfes and Elfes another story part here its done and not THAT much work. 

The problem is just the voiced Charakter here. Every word he says costs money so its much more easy to have just a human male or Woman with one name so everyone can just call him/her Hawke. So the whole thing is not a story problem. Its a Money problem for EA. Make the Game as Cheap as possible and sell as much as possible. (Didnt work well in DA2 though)

But i think its kinda strange saying the story didnt allow it. In a story you can make everything happen. Its not a Game about some movie where the story was already tolt in the Cinema. If you make a game about the Lord of the Ring story of the first movie you cant just remove Gandalf and add some Ogre Warrior named Bob to replace him. 
But in a story you make for one Game.. what holds you back to add anything you want?
In DA:O they didnt say there will be no Dwarves or Elves because its a Story about an Human Warden named Shep...uhm Hawke. They made the story for the game that allows what we got. And now its not possible anymore?

And btw i have to disagree the last part too.. If you didnt play DA2.. and if you like RPGs.. you didnt miss anything. You can also check some Youtube Videos about the Combat animation for the laugh and move on. 

The problem (as i see it) is that the story of the warden was told in present tense. They had all the things happen for each origin story, just not playable. With a story in past tense you are kinda locked into what happened (varric is telling the story after all.) changing up the characters origins is complicated when you have a story like that. Plus they were coming from a human city. If i recall correctly too there werent dwarves or elves making mass migrations out there either. But i could be wrong on that. It just makes things more complicated is all.