3855 réponses à ce sujet

[Sutekh]

Xilizhra wrote...

Strictly speaking, if we don't tell them how we want them to do our job, they'll have no idea what works and what doesn't, thus harming their sale numbers. As long as this board is still standing, we have the right to tell them whatever we believe they need to know. Such as the fact that they may well be shooting themselves in the foot with this restricted race system. And as to whether or not I'd rather have Bioware follow their vision... I don't know what their vision is, so I can't say, but the initial glimpses in regard to the race thing don't look encouraging. I don't think there's enough interesting about humans to justify saying that a story has to be from their perspective.

Oh, I agree with that. Ranting about it, I've no problem with (and I said as much), even if it's a lost cause at this stage of production, it might be good for possible future installments.

What drives me up the wall is demanding they change the story and pretending it's easy (when in fact it doesn't require a degree in game dev to realize that it's not). It's all the "all they had to do is..." when we have no idea of all the factors and constraints involved in such a decision.

As for their vision, it can't please everyone. Some people will be repelled by the lack of races, some, like me, will be disappointed but make do, some absolutely don't care. Human-only may be a commercial mistake, only future will tell, but I'm pretty sure they didn't take this decision with the sole purpose of a commercial flop, or just to troll the fanbase.

--

ianvillan wrote...

Bioware wrote the story for DA2 and DA3 knowing that they would be only using a Human only character, so to say that Bioware is only going with a Human only character because it is only what will fit the story is silly.

Since we know next to nothing about the story in question, we can't know whether it's been written with human-only in mind or if they wanted to write it anyway, and human-only is just an unfortunate side-effect (as in non-human really can't fit in, and they really wanted to tell that story). And we certainly can't speculate whether or not races could have been squeezed in, because we don't have enough data.

I do believe the only reason they went Human only character is because of lack of resources to do more races not the story and definetly not the feedback data they recieved from Origins. Now why they have less resources and what they have done with the resources they have is another discussion.

And I do believe you may very well be right, but then it becomes a matter of their priorities not matching yours (or mine or player X's). It sucks, but that's what it is. We can still make our unhappiness known loud and clear without telling them what to do and pretend we know better, that's all I'm saying.

Modifié par Sutekh, 01 février 2013 - 04:37 .

[tiberius_adamantine]

Bioware has no legitimate reason for wanting to confine DA3 to a human protagonist. Part of what was liked about DAO was the fact that it allowed for different races, which had differences beyond the origin story play-through. It affected your racial abilities and how others percieved you, even allowing for a few unique dialogue choices. You can argue that these are small changes to the game but from the role-playing side these do make a difference. I don't like being made to play as a human when the opportunity should be there to play as a unique race. As for why a non-human would be in a special forces group, this isn't a very difficult concept. Special forces recruit primarily for skill, and they would likely need different racial members to better complete their objectives. Howe used an elf and qunari in his death squad, the tevinter slavers used elves in their military, the crows use members regardless of race. So it is actually very plausible for an elite special forces group to overlook race so long as the member has the right skills.

Modifié par tiberius_adamantine, 02 février 2013 - 03:05 .

[Nimyue]

 I'm pretty much not interested in the game because of this.  I'll probably play it eventually, but I will not be pre-ordering or getting it right away.  I'll wait till it's been out for a year or so and is cheaper.  I'm just not excited about playing a human.  I'm a human.  Why would I want to play one in a fantasy game????

Just really sad and disappointed.

I'll just play DA:O over and over and some Elder Scrolls  and wait impatiently for a DA 4 with multiple races.

[Nimyue]

And UGH if we have to play a religious member gag me with a spoon. I just can't even pretend it! I loved being able to choose to not believe in the Maker at all in DA:O

[Dutchess]

Nimyue wrote...

I loved being able to choose to not believe in the Maker at all in DA:O

Yeah, apparently that possibility was just an accident. For the human noble at least.

[Wodan Yrmir]

Nimyue wrote...

 I'm pretty much not interested in the game because of this.  I'll probably play it eventually, but I will not be pre-ordering or getting it right away.  I'll wait till it's been out for a year or so and is cheaper.  I'm just not excited about playing a human.  I'm a human.  Why would I want to play one in a fantasy game????

Just really sad and disappointed.

I'll just play DA:O over and over and some Elder Scrolls  and wait impatiently for a DA 4 with multiple races.

I'll totaly agree whit you,using human in game is too basic, i din't mind playing human in origin and dragon age 2 but i have more fun of playing the other race then been the human character.

We have that in dragon age 2 human protagonice and it din't turn out well much beside of the game play of the combot,inventory,skill tree,stat and the new mage in da2 that was awesome but kinda when 2 step backward for the story and roman in that one

So why not change this time?,why not try to take the qunari for the main character this time or yet a elf between those 2,the qunari (hero) could be a Tal-Vashoth trying to find a new way of life after runnning away form the qun(yeah sorry don't have much idea for the moment) and for the elf who try to make a better life for his people or try to make a name of hisself.

I'll really love dragon age world and mostly DAO but i don't want the dragon age to be turn into mass efftec only using the human race beside using the other race like the elf,dwarf and qunari,i enjoy to see change in game making your character to be one hell of a hero while protecting those you now care for.

[tiberius_adamantine]

DAO allowed us to create unique characters of different race/religion/ and mindsets. It was unique from mass effect in that our hero was less defined which gave us more freedom in choosing what kind of person they are, what groups they support and why, and to noticeably change their world. By comparison DA2 was more linear in that it denied that freedom. The ME series tried to find success one way, but DAO was and still is successful through a very different way. Why should they change it now? Why should they deny that kind of freedom for role-playing, particularly since that is what we want from the game? Some people would want to play as human, but for the rest of us we want the perspective and stories of the other races. It should be a choice Bioware.

[Mornmagor]

From Dragon Age: Origins to Dragon Age 2 and now 3, i see that players get less and less choices and even in HOW they play their characters.

DA:O let you pick whatever race you wanted, you could have specializations that gave flavor or mixed some class elements(Arcane Warrior for instance).

In 2, you are human, the classes became more typical or basic.

In 3, you are a human again, and you probably will be only able to pick 1 spec. All for story i'm sure, but it sounds like an excuse to limit the players choices even more.

DA:O sales - about 3.79 million

DA2 sales - about 1.58 million

I think it should be obvious that less choices, especially about races and classes in a Fantasy RPG, is not the way to go, altough obviously, DA2 had more bad things going for it than race and classes, but it was pretty big.

I don't agree with this race restriction, and i certainly don't agree either with making the classes more bland, or should i use their word and say distinct?

You can't choose your race, you can't add freedom and mix class elements, your character got affected by how you respond to anyone in DA2 and then adapted that tone in general. Yeah, great choices i'm having. Should i help the templars or the mages? Hm, how about no one?

Bioware can create the cinematic movie, er sorry, i meant rpg game, that they "envision". I will decide if i like what they made enough to spend money on it.

Choices, as they say, have meaning and consequences, well guess what, developer choices have consequences as well.

We don't want to play mass effect X, we want dragon age, as it started with Origins, and as it should continue now.

Modifié par Kuroi Kishin, 03 février 2013 - 10:24 .

[Melca36]

Nimyue wrote...

And UGH if we have to play a religious member gag me with a spoon. I just can't even pretend it! I loved being able to choose to not believe in the Maker at all in DA:O

They already said you will NOT be forced into playing a religious character in the game. 

[Allan Schumacher]

Bioware has no legitimate reason for wanting to confine DA3 to a human protagonist

If this were the case, then why are we doing it?

[Darth Krytie]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Bioware has no legitimate reason for wanting to confine DA3 to a human protagonist

If this were the case, then why are we doing it?

Well, of course because you're mean and want to upset people on purpose.

It's clearly not that so many people come up with reasons to be upset despite not having access to any relevent information about the upcoming game or deciding to ignore available information and decide they prefer their own skewed reality.

[MassStorm]

Yeah i mean BW is free to do their game as they prefer...so i'm free not to buy it if i don't like their ideas for the new game. A strictly human protagonist in a fantasy game is a deal-breaking feature for me. In the end i will buy it only after some years when it's cheap for sale. Certainly not worth pre-order or full-price

[zyntifox]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Bioware has no legitimate reason for wanting to confine DA3 to a human protagonist

If this were the case, then why are we doing it?

I think they have a legitimate reason for this. They want to make the experience more cinamtic like Mass effect. And in doing so having a protagonist who are different sizes and have different voices creates problems and costs. I don't happen do agree with the direction they are going but it is still legitimate.

[zyntifox]

MassStorm wrote...

Yeah i mean BW is free to do their game as they prefer...so i'm free not to buy it if i don't like their ideas for the new game. A strictly human protagonist in a fantasy game is a deal-breaking feature for me. In the end i will buy it only after some years when it's cheap for sale. Certainly not worth pre-order or full-price

The should do what they think is best for the series. While i'm not going to buy it, due to not being able to roleplay, i am still very interested in the lore and world. But i don't need to play the game to experience that. I'll probably end up watching a playthough (without commentary) on my TV like i would a movie and/or read fanfictions centered around the story of DA3. Or better yet, read a novelization of the story by David Gaider if it where to be available.

[Lintanis]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Bioware has no legitimate reason for wanting to confine DA3 to a human protagonist

If this were the case, then why are we doing it?

To annoy everyone of course so no-one buys the game

[Nyneve]

Don't care. I usually play human protagonists anyway, and I think the overall plot is much more important than being able to choose to have pointy ears.

[ShadyKat]

MassStorm wrote...

Yeah i mean BW is free to do their game as they prefer...so i'm free not to buy it if i don't like their ideas for the new game. A strictly human protagonist in a fantasy game is a deal-breaking feature for me. In the end i will buy it only after some years when it's cheap for sale. Certainly not worth pre-order or full-price

I think many people are taking the"wait and see"approch. Not happy about playing yet another human protag, but this will not be the deal breaker. Bioware has more then thy think riding on this game, and hopefully they bring their A game.

[Melca36]

Nyneve wrote...

Don't care. I usually play human protagonists anyway, and I think the overall plot is much more important than being able to choose to have pointy ears.

Exactly.

And I know its a novel approach but I am not going to judge the game until AFTER I play it.

Besides, half  of the people who loudly claim they won't buy it will end up buying it. I never take these threats seriously.

Modifié par Melca36, 03 février 2013 - 05:54 .

[AstraDrakkar]

Although I would prefer multiple races choices in DA3 for the sake of replayability, It's not a deal breaker for me because my first playthrough is usually human anyway. I do believe that having race choices would extend the life of the game.

[Wodan Yrmir]

Kuroi Kishin wrote...

From Dragon Age: Origins to Dragon Age 2 and now 3, i see that players get less and less choices and even in HOW they play their characters.

DA:O let you pick whatever race you wanted, you could have specializations that gave flavor or mixed some class elements(Arcane Warrior for instance).

In 2, you are human, the classes became more typical or basic.

In 3, you are a human again, and you probably will be only able to pick 1 spec. All for story i'm sure, but it sounds like an excuse to limit the players choices even more.

DA:O sales - about 3.79 million

DA2 sales - about 1.58 million

I think it should be obvious that less choices, especially about races and classes in a Fantasy RPG, is not the way to go, altough obviously, DA2 had more bad things going for it than race and classes, but it was pretty big.

I don't agree with this race restriction, and i certainly don't agree either with making the classes more bland, or should i use their word and say distinct?

You can't choose your race, you can't add freedom and mix class elements, your character got affected by how you respond to anyone in DA2 and then adapted that tone in general. Yeah, great choices i'm having. Should i help the templars or the mages? Hm, how about no one?

Bioware can create the cinematic movie, er sorry, i meant rpg game, that they "envision". I will decide if i like what they made enough to spend money on it.

Choices, as they say, have meaning and consequences, well guess what, developer choices have consequences as well.

We don't want to play mass effect X, we want dragon age, as it started with Origins, and as it should continue now.

They should have put a poll of what we want a other human  protagonist or add the race in the game and see what the fan wanted to have in da3,mass effect have is glory but i don't want it messing up the dragon age that i love whit only choosing Human -.-

Modifié par Wodan Yrmir, 03 février 2013 - 08:23 .

[tiberius_adamantine]

Wodan Yrmir wrote...

Kuroi Kishin wrote...

From Dragon Age: Origins to Dragon Age 2 and now 3, i see that players get less and less choices and even in HOW they play their characters.

DA:O let you pick whatever race you wanted, you could have specializations that gave flavor or mixed some class elements(Arcane Warrior for instance).

In 2, you are human, the classes became more typical or basic.

In 3, you are a human again, and you probably will be only able to pick 1 spec. All for story i'm sure, but it sounds like an excuse to limit the players choices even more.

DA:O sales - about 3.79 million

DA2 sales - about 1.58 million

I think it should be obvious that less choices, especially about races and classes in a Fantasy RPG, is not the way to go, altough obviously, DA2 had more bad things going for it than race and classes, but it was pretty big.

I don't agree with this race restriction, and i certainly don't agree either with making the classes more bland, or should i use their word and say distinct?

You can't choose your race, you can't add freedom and mix class elements, your character got affected by how you respond to anyone in DA2 and then adapted that tone in general. Yeah, great choices i'm having. Should i help the templars or the mages? Hm, how about no one?

Bioware can create the cinematic movie, er sorry, i meant rpg game, that they "envision". I will decide if i like what they made enough to spend money on it.

Choices, as they say, have meaning and consequences, well guess what, developer choices have consequences as well.

We don't want to play mass effect X, we want dragon age, as it started with Origins, and as it should continue now.

They should have put a poll of what we want a other human  protagonist or add the race in the game and see what the fan wanted to have in da3,mass effect have is glory but i don't want it messing up the dragon age that i love whit only choosing Human -.-

Bioware's problem right now is that they are ignoring their players to do what they want. The reason "we're doing it this way because we can" just isn't working for them. The ME series has a protagonist which is very defined because there are crucial elements that force it to work that way. Then each addition to the series follows the same hero which is why perspective is limited. The DA series has three seperate protagonists which is why the same approach for the ME series just doesn't work for DA, the limit on perspective actually hurts the series.

DAO was a great game. It had different origin stories, classes with a variety of ways to use them, and it allowed for a range of perspectives in the game. Being able to play as a different race allowed us to roleplay as them, to see the world as they would. I loved all the unique dialogue options it presented because the other characters responded to you a bit differently, which was an interesting perspective. Having a different race opened up the possibility of having characters be unique in race, culture, religion, and what each character personally values. What I was able to do in DAO was far more elaborate than in any other bioware game.

But Bioware has been ignoring us and our choices when they decide that they want something. In DAO, what choices you made could be violently opposed by other characters, leading to their deaths. But then in the second game and in the novels Bioware forces these people to remain alive. DAII had interesting elements and was a good game, but the problem was that regardless of what you chose, your decision doesn't really make a difference. The transition from ME2 to ME3 also saw our choice nulled when they decided that Anderson would not be councilor. Regardless of it you were a paragon or a renegade, Anderson was likely the choice you would have made because he worked well with either whereas Udina betrayed you at the first opportunity. However, Bioware decided that they wanted Anderson in a certain role so they over-ruled our choice and didn't even offer a plausible reason.

Bioware needs to understand that they need to stop ignoring us and make a game that most of us will come to love. We don't need DA to try and be ME, we already had that. We need a game that allows us the maximum number of choices: what race to play as, what beliefs our character has, what groups does the character support, what are they willing to do to achieve their goals, and allow for the complexity the first game had in deciding how to achieve them. Bioware wouldn't need more voice actors, they would just do the same thing they did in swtor, and swtor/DAO already proved they can have cinematic moments with characters of different races/shapes/and sizes. Therefore, Bioware has no reason to deny us the option to play as other races. Each race has the potential of being in the special forces because the special forces organizations recruit primarlily based on skill and in a world were multiple races exist it would be necessary for them to recruit a range of racial members for different needs.

Please visit my poll at http://social.biowar...55/polls/43317/ to show your support for more racial choices and to encourage Bioware to stop ignoring their fans and allow us the freedom that we want.

Modifié par tiberius_adamantine, 04 février 2013 - 02:04 .

[Paul E Dangerously]

tiberius_adamantine wrote...
But Bioware has been ignoring us and our choices when they decide that they want something. In DAO, what choices you made could be violently opposed by other characters, leading to their deaths. But then in the second game and in the novels Bioware forces these people to remain alive. DAII had interesting elements and was a good game, but the problem was that regardless of what you chose, your decision doesn't really make a difference. The transition from ME2 to ME3 also saw our choice nulled when they decided that Anderson would not be councilor. Regardless of it you were a paragon or a renegade, Anderson was likely the choice you would have made because he worked well with either whereas Udina betrayed you at the first opportunity. However, Bioware decided that they wanted Anderson in a certain role so they over-ruled our choice and didn't even offer a plausible reason.

Except they don't, because you can (and will) butt heads with some of your party members, often resulting in their deaths.

I can almost see why they narrowed down the end of ME1, though I would've liked to see the result of more choices in 3. It's not just Anderson or Udina, but the council living or dying, and even replacing them with an all-human council. That would've been really interesting, but in ME2 you don't even get to see them, and by ME3 the all-human council is retconned entirely.

[Monica83]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Bioware has no legitimate reason for wanting to confine DA3 to a human protagonist

If this were the case, then why are we doing it?

Maybe just because bioware chosen to cut roleplay elements in order to have cinematic eye candy dialogues and things?...But if i want cinematics i play other kind of game not an rpg...

Because you guys insist to have a voiced protagonist but if you allow race selection you have to do a lot of more dialogues?...

Or just because DA franchise is trying in desperate manner to follow the mass effect route... but if i want play mass effect i play mass effect...

[ianvillan]

Monica83 wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Bioware has no legitimate reason for wanting to confine DA3 to a human protagonist

If this were the case, then why are we doing it?

Maybe just because bioware chosen to cut roleplay elements in order to have cinematic eye candy dialogues and things?...But if i want cinematics i play other kind of game not an rpg...

Because you guys insist to have a voiced protagonist but if you allow race selection you have to do a lot of more dialogues?...

Or just because DA franchise is trying in desperate manner to follow the mass effect route... but if i want play mass effect i play mass effect...

More likely the marketing department said that Human only is more likely to attract the mass market Bioware is looking for.

[Jack Pipsam]

 I tend to play Humans in games by default so it wouldn't affect me.

However I liked the whole 'Origins' thing.