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[Riknas]

The_FenixV wrote...

Riknas wrote...

I still have no major problems with the removal of races, but it should be mentioned that Voice Acting should not be a major deterrent for using another race, at least not if we're talking about elves. Dwarves are a little trickier.

As we saw in Star Wars: The Old Republic, the same voice actor/actress can be reused if the races are similar enough.

Well some Dwarves in Origin and DA II didn't really have...Dwarf like...voices.. 

That's pretty vague. Can you elaborate?

Note: Now that I think about it,  I had forgotten how they changed the art style and voices to better differentiate humans from the other races. Humans have a variety of western european voices, while Dalish elves have Welsh accents and the Dwarves have standard American accents. Guess that crosses out reusing voices.

Modifié par Riknas, 28 mai 2013 - 06:07 .

[The_FenixV]

Riknas wrote...

The_FenixV wrote...

Riknas wrote...

I still have no major problems with the removal of races, but it should be mentioned that Voice Acting should not be a major deterrent for using another race, at least not if we're talking about elves. Dwarves are a little trickier.

As we saw in Star Wars: The Old Republic, the same voice actor/actress can be reused if the races are similar enough.

Well some Dwarves in Origin and DA II didn't really have...Dwarf like...voices.. 

That's pretty vague. Can you elaborate?

 Bodahn, Leske, Bartrand, Gorim, the merchants, especially the npcs that aren't important(beggars) , even Bhelen didn't completely sound like a dwarf. To me the perfect dwarf was pretty much Oghren. 

[Riknas]

The dwarves you mention might not have the same stereotypical voice we've come to expect, however it does line up with what Bioware says dwarves sound like in Thedas: Americans.

All of those characters properly line up well enough with that description. Maybe if you listed off a dwarf that had a scottish accent, or spoke only in metaphors in a spanish accent, then we would have a real story problem.

Modifié par Riknas, 28 mai 2013 - 06:13 .

[The_FenixV]

kinderschlager wrote...

The_FenixV wrote...

I would say it's more in the terms of the setting for the third game rather than the voice actor, I doubt they would need four different voice actors just because of race it has more to do with the setting, wouldn't make sense for a Dalish to join the Inquisition..same for the Dwarves.

what on earth are y'all talking about?

link to the articles by bioware detailing the plot?

No it's pretty much me assuming that our pc will be with the Seekers of Truth.

[The_FenixV]

Riknas wrote...

The dwarves you mention might not have the same stereotypical voice we've come to expect, however it does line up with what Bioware says dwarves sound like in Thedas: Americans.

All of those characters properly line up well enough with that description. Maybe if you listed off a dwarf that had a scottish accent, or spoke only in metaphors in a spanish accent, then we would have a real story problem.

True..true.. it's maddening though... me that wanted dwarves with scottish accents..ah well.

[Silfren]

Dark Korsar wrote...

it is not to hard for bioware to give us choose the elf race(if not a dwarf or Kossind what i really wanted to)....especially the ex- circle mage/son of the tevinter magister(elf magister), or Orleas/Ferelden city elf....

1)the elf are universal race like humans, they can be....rogue/warrior/mage....

2)the elf's(expecially city elf's) are numerous in thedas....and this is also they war(unlike the dwarves(i like them,but still...) who can not even be the mage or the templar(the lyrium has no effect of them...except madnes if it's red lirium)

3)if the inquisition have options for be the mage....that means that inquisitor mages are ex-circle mages...and we knows that that many circle mages are elf's

4)if Templars separated from the Orlais Chantry(and they do not and never was belong to any country esept Orlais), they confront army of apostage mages and daemons massively invade to Tedas.
...Why they(and inqusitors) should not take non-mage elf's(dwarfs cant be a Templar or Mage) warriors/rogue-assasins who really believe in Maker, or just wants to stop the "evil" mages and demons?

5)the many even non-dalish and non-qunari elf's of Thedas has a real political/social influence, for example..the elf's Gray Wardens(especially knight-commanders like Fiona and the others)....the elf's Senior/First/Grand Enchanters.....the elf's magisters of tevinter empire(they are mention).....the elf's slave traders(like Devera in DA:O).....the elf's Antivan Crows....the elf's Ambassadors(like Cera in DA:O-Awakening)....the elfs Handmaids/Spymaster(Briala handmaid of Celine-Empress of Orlais)

6)if the hero would be the elf....I do not think it will take another actor for the character voice acting....that both races voice is almost identical(of course they identical...the actors are human), except for some accent, and if the elf from alianage/circle(any non-dalish)...then he should not have accent

7) the only problem is the cinematics for female elf protag, but why biowar not just make them the same height as male elf protag, who have the same height than human female protag?.....and about elf height in DA lore said that they are TYPICALLY SHORTER that Humans, NOT ALWAYS so why not just give us a tall elven protag(we see in DA 2 many tall elves with the same height as humans)
and we know that many female gamers were unhappy that they had a human/elven protag who was shorter that male protag 

8)and about....6 voice actors for 3 races??? Oh, really?))) and you know, that even a good-just normal actor can voice more than just one character?.....and we live in 2013 year and we even have cheep or even free voice changing programs?

about Inquisition:

We, in fact, something like the "Grey Warden"...only specifically against Demons(in theory they are our main enemy), ...and we need to find & making a "good decision" to stop mage vs templar war...technically, but the choice is ours

Besides, we like the Grey Wardens are chosen to be the "Inquisitor"(especially Mage..and we know that he/she would be Ex-circle/Apostage mage(and he/she can be elf..who, if not an elf, will be the best mage?).....and we have appointed to carry out a political settlement of the war between the Templars and mages

and the amount of voice acting for them certainly will not be more than 1-1.5 GB(the size of all skyrim voices)

...you give the title of the "Inquisitor" more sense than it actually is .. it's just a "cool name" for the new Grey Warden....we will not even really a part of Inquisition/Elite Templars(its only a Cassandra and Leliana-stupid b*tches are them(and some guys what we not see yet), we just some kind of a Special Mercenary, who was given special privileges and political power in order to stop the mage/templar war(maybe, because "someone" can not find the Warden and Hawke, and we do all the dirty work)

The developers say that we are not associated with Chantry and certainly not required to believe in a Maker, and we can be mage(ex-circle/apostage)....here and a warrior / mage / rogue of Kossind, Elf(especially them)....or even Dwarf(but they cant be templars or mages, and they are not so many of them outside the Deep Roads) would be approached without any problems

and stop talking this bull**** about that Mage vs Templar war is primality or only human conflict.

as for Kossind & Chantry/Templars/Inquisitor we have this
**image snipped*

You seem to have a lot of certainty about what the Inquisition will and won't be, especially your rhetoric about how we'll just be Grey Wardens by another name.  I'd love to have your inside track, so tell me, what's your source?  Oh, wait.

That aside, it's already been established that the PC will be a human.  I don't see the point of arguing endlessly about how and why it would be totally possible for the PC to also be an elf or dwarf.  It WILL be a human.  I don't see the voiced PC as being the, er, culprit behind this.  There may be other reasons, but I maintain that it actually fits the story MUCH better because yes, the templar/mage war is primarily a human conflict.  That's not to say that elves and dwarves--particularly those which live in human cities--won't get swept up in it. But that fact doesn't make it any less a centrally human issue.

[ArcaneJTM]

Bleachrude wrote...

Again...this is what I don't understand....

The whole point of Thedas is that there are actual social differences between mages and non-mages as well as the races. This is NOT the Forgotten Realms where you basically can ignore race and class since the setting doesn't care.

And?  Since when do all members of a particular social group have to obey the stereotypes?  Not all elves are Dalish or servants.  Not all mages are circle mages, or even human.  And not all chantry priests are human either.  There are dwarves in their number.  I see no reason elves couldn't be.

DA:O gets away with this since being a warden (again, how people are able to tell by you just saying it is interesting) overrides class and race.

Not many would pretend to be a warden.  Especially when they are wanted men.  One of the dalish elves even says as much.

Honestly, if Bioware wanted to make any race available they should have designed the setting from the outset where race makes no distinction a la many D&D settings.

Why?  How hard is it really to add a check for race to dialogue?  There are mountains of posibilities one could do with just that one element of the game design.

EDIT: The more I think of it, wasn't one of the many criticisms against DA2 the fact that mage Hawke could be a blood mage and be open about it yet not one templar says or does anything?

Yes, it is.  And it is far more inconsistant than pointy ears or a short stature would be.

[Silfren]

The_FenixV wrote...

Riknas wrote...

The_FenixV wrote...

Riknas wrote...

I still have no major problems with the removal of races, but it should be mentioned that Voice Acting should not be a major deterrent for using another race, at least not if we're talking about elves. Dwarves are a little trickier.

As we saw in Star Wars: The Old Republic, the same voice actor/actress can be reused if the races are similar enough.

Well some Dwarves in Origin and DA II didn't really have...Dwarf like...voices.. 

That's pretty vague. Can you elaborate?

 Bodahn, Leske, Bartrand, Gorim, the merchants, especially the npcs that aren't important(beggars) , even Bhelen didn't completely sound like a dwarf. To me the perfect dwarf was pretty much Oghren. 

What exactly is a dwarf suppose to sound like, if the existing dwarves from the game didn't sound like dwarves?

[ArcaneJTM]

Bleachrude wrote...

You still haven't answered then...what exactly is the point of having the guards then? Seriously, you're arguing that the guards won't guard and that ANYBODY could simply walk in there and not be challenged.

You're being too literal.  "All or nothing" does not apply to general human behavior.

[The_FenixV]

Silfren wrote...

The_FenixV wrote...

Riknas wrote...

The_FenixV wrote...

Riknas wrote...

I still have no major problems with the removal of races, but it should be mentioned that Voice Acting should not be a major deterrent for using another race, at least not if we're talking about elves. Dwarves are a little trickier.

As we saw in Star Wars: The Old Republic, the same voice actor/actress can be reused if the races are similar enough.

Well some Dwarves in Origin and DA II didn't really have...Dwarf like...voices.. 

That's pretty vague. Can you elaborate?

 Bodahn, Leske, Bartrand, Gorim, the merchants, especially the npcs that aren't important(beggars) , even Bhelen didn't completely sound like a dwarf. To me the perfect dwarf was pretty much Oghren. 

What exactly is a dwarf suppose to sound like, if the existing dwarves from the game didn't sound like dwarves?

Hmm hard to say really, I always imagined Dwarves with scottish accents I don't know why but that has always been the way I see dwarves in fantasies.

[Silfren]

ArcaneJTM wrote...

Bleachrude wrote...

You still haven't answered then...what exactly is the point of having the guards then? Seriously, you're arguing that the guards won't guard and that ANYBODY could simply walk in there and not be challenged.

You're being too literal.  "All or nothing" does not apply to general human behavior.

That actually was your original argument. Before you started qualifying it with all these specifics, your argument was that city guards would be unlikely to register an armed elf because they'd be more concerned about their next meal.

[ArcaneJTM]

Silfren wrote...

ArcaneJTM wrote...

You're being too literal.  "All or nothing" does not apply to general human behavior.

That actually was your original argument. Before you started qualifying it with all these specifics, your argument was that city guards would be unlikely to register an armed elf because they'd be more concerned about their next meal.

Read it again.

"People see what they want to see, and if something seems wrong,
generally they just don't want to get involved or have bigger problems
to worry about.  An elf walking around with a sword on his back is a
problem for the guards, and the guards are more interested in when their
next meal is coming."

That's a generalization.  You are trying to argue against a strawman by taking the literal interpritation.  I did not say all guards are only ever interested in when lunch is.  I said that the guards are not interested in making more work for themselves than necessary.

[LobselVith8]

Melca36 wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

So... people should shell out money to find out if they will be forced to play something they find abhorrent?


Yeah... how about no. If Bioware isn't ABUNDANTLY clear about a LOT of things before DA3 comes out, they will find many fans not bothering. The days of "play and find out" with Bioware games is, for me, long gone. Just like with all other developers, if what they tell me about the game before I play it doesn't interest me, I'm not going to make the gamble.

Does that mean you would rather have a deceptive trailer like the way Dragon Age 2's was?

I understand what you are trying to say but whats done is done. I would rather wait and see more info before I decide anything.

And I mean no offense but I get really tired of seeing people bash humans. They can be just as fun to play. Its like its become trendy to hate them.

Some of us don't find playing as an Andrastian human entertaining. No offense to the players who do, but I find the non-human races more entertaining than I do the Andrastian humans. I've never once enjoyed playing as an Andrastian human, especially in Dragon Age II - where I was limited to playing as Hawke. I really enjoyed my Surana Warden, while I've had many problems playing as Hawke (including his Andrastian views).

Trendy has nothing to do with it. It's an issue of personal preference, and the enjoyment some have in playing as a fictional race. Some players have stated they aren't going to bother with Inquisition because they don't prefer to play as humans in fantasy games, while people like me are willing to wait and see if there's something that tips the balance for us to purchase and play Inquisition. As it stands, I'm willing to hear more about the new Dragon Age before writing it off completely, but if I'm being honest, I'm not really on the side of actually purchasing it. I'm willing to wait and see, though.

[The_FenixV]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

So... people should shell out money to find out if they will be forced to play something they find abhorrent?


Yeah... how about no. If Bioware isn't ABUNDANTLY clear about a LOT of things before DA3 comes out, they will find many fans not bothering. The days of "play and find out" with Bioware games is, for me, long gone. Just like with all other developers, if what they tell me about the game before I play it doesn't interest me, I'm not going to make the gamble.

Does that mean you would rather have a deceptive trailer like the way Dragon Age 2's was?

I understand what you are trying to say but whats done is done. I would rather wait and see more info before I decide anything.

And I mean no offense but I get really tired of seeing people bash humans. They can be just as fun to play. Its like its become trendy to hate them.

Some of us don't find playing as an Andrastian human entertaining. No offense to the players who do, but I find the non-human races more entertaining than I do the Andrastian humans. I've never once enjoyed playing as an Andrastian human, especially in Dragon Age II - where I was limited to playing as Hawke. I really enjoyed my Surana Warden, while I've had many problems playing as Hawke (including his Andrastian views).

Trendy has nothing to do with it. It's an issue of personal preference, and the enjoyment some have in playing as a fictional race. Some players have stated they aren't going to bother with Inquisition because they don't prefer to play as humans in fantasy games, while people like me are willing to wait and see if there's something that tips the balance for us to purchase and play Inquisition. As it stands, I'm willing to hear more about the new Dragon Age before writing it off completely, but if I'm being honest, I'm not really on the side of actually purchasing it. I'm willing to wait and see, though.

You do realize the Andrastian part depends on you... heck you could make a city elf/ dwarf and even a Dalish believe in the maker or at least aknowledging the maker. Plus I think that if the pc character starts with the Seekers then that is reason enough to only be human. 

[Uccio]

Silfren wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

Ukki wrote...

Killdren88 wrote...

I would like more options as well. But we need to look at this from a story perspective. The Chantry is human focused. How would an elf or a dwarf for that matter reach the level of inquisitor in a religious group like the chantry? The Chantry is not like the Qun where everyone has a place in it.

And why would Bio think people are keen on playing a religious zealot?

Um..they already said you wont be forced to play a pro chantry character

Never mind that the original Inquisition was not aligned with the Chantry at all.  That came later.  It's possible that this new Inquisition will arise independently of the Chantry as well. Hell, I could see one of the PC's choices being whether or not TO align with the Chantry.

The only way I would believe such thing is that if in the game there is a way to destroy chantry and templar order, and side with the mages.

Modifié par Ukki, 28 mai 2013 - 09:19 .

[kinderschlager]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Discuss how this makes you feel here.

Be civil to one another.  Respect that other people have differing opinions, and this works both ways.  So if you LIKE this decision, respect that others are disappointed by it.

Rather than closing threads I'll try talking with posters whom I think are crossing the line.

angry as hell, did dragon age 2 teach y'all nothing?

i picked up origins cause i heard it was a bioware game, not an EA game with someone elses name on it to hide the crap. then DA2 reared it's ugly head.... 

proof that bioware no longer exists

[Rawgrim]

Silfren wrote...

ArcaneJTM wrote...

Bleachrude wrote...

In DA:O, your "wardeness" overwrote any racial problems that you should experience...now, how the gameworld could TELL you were a warden is another question (it's played for laughs at the docks to kinloch hold but the templar was the ONLY one in the entire game that actually acted smart in asking fro proof)

For example, the lore states that elves can not carry swords in Ferelden yet it is quite possible to walk around with a huge sword strapped to your back and not a word will be said Mages are supposed to be accompanied by a templar at all times unless they have special dispensation from the crown yet again, nobody says jack if you are wearing mage robes and wielding a huge staff in the middle of Denerim.

I seem to recall a line from Doctor Who that dealt with this very issue.

Mickey: [after the Doctor explains why the TARDIS resembles a Police Public Call Box] But that's what I meant: there's no police boxes anymore, so doesn't it get noticed?
The Doctor: Ricky, let me tell you something about the human race. You put a mysterious blue box slap-bang in the middle of town, what do they do? Walk past it. Now stop your nagging. Let's go and explore.

People see what they want to see, and if something seems wrong, generally they just don't want to get involved or have bigger problems to worry about.  An elf walking around with a sword on his back is a problem for the guards, and the guards are more interested in when their next meal is coming.

You don't think this is a legitimate explanation, seriously?  Guards WOULD notice an elf walking about with a sword on their back, if that elf is in a location hostile to elves where elves are legally barred from carrying weapons.  It is precisely the sort of thing the guards are supposed to notice, and they are hardly going to fail to see it because they're worried about lunch.

You mean how the guards and templars notice Hawke using Blood Magic in the town-square of Kirkwall?

[zyntifox]

kinderschlager wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Discuss how this makes you feel here.

Be civil to one another.  Respect that other people have differing opinions, and this works both ways.  So if you LIKE this decision, respect that others are disappointed by it.

Rather than closing threads I'll try talking with posters whom I think are crossing the line.

angry as hell, did dragon age 2 teach y'all nothing?

i picked up origins cause i heard it was a bioware game, not an EA game with someone elses name on it to hide the crap. then DA2 reared it's ugly head.... 

proof that bioware no longer exists

While i agree that only having human protagonist is a couple of steps back, especially considering that it was an option in a previous title, you really should tone down the rhetoric. I think we simply need to accept that Bioware have shifted their focus when it comes to game development. I don't happen to agree with the shift but from a business perspective it may make sense in the long-run.

If this shift would have taken place 6-7 years ago i would have probably been more disappointed. But given the rise of kickstarter i/we now have a proper substitute to itch that "deep" roleplaying experience. However, this shift kind of caught me by surprise given the reception of Dragon age: Origins. And even though i consider Dragon age: Origins to be a water-downed roleplaying experienced compared to many older roleplaying games it was, in my opinion, and acceptable compromise between the "old-school" and "new-school" (I'm making up words now right? :innocent:) roleplaying game. Especially considering that the compromise let me play a Balduresqué (again with the making up of words!) kind of game on my PS3.

I will still play Bioware's games in the future. But only to be told an interactive story, which Bioware still are the masters of. But if i want a game to roleplay in i will look for games on kickstarter or games with Chris Avellone's name on it.

[Uccio]

Cstaf wrote...

While i agree that only having human protagonist is a couple of steps back, especially considering that it was an option in a previous title, you really should tone down the rhetoric. I think we simply need to accept that Bioware have shifted their focus when it comes to game development. I don't happen to agree with the shift but from a business perspective it may make sense in the long-run.

That and we also have a possibility not to puchase any more of their games if they turn out to be something we do not want. It´s good to be a customer.

Modifié par Ukki, 28 mai 2013 - 11:27 .

[Eralrik]

I love playing elves weather its a Mage Elf or Rogue Elf from the Alienage and the Dalish elves I'm bored out of my mind playing Humans as a matter of fact I am a human in Real Life why would I want to play one in a Fantasy setting. I loved DA:O background story's for each race or starting class and how people judged you for the race you were.
I want more of this in the next game, I want it to have a more meaningful impact on the story and those around me.

[LobselVith8]

The_FenixV wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Some of us don't find playing as an Andrastian human entertaining. No offense to the players who do, but I find the non-human races more entertaining than I do the Andrastian humans. I've never once enjoyed playing as an Andrastian human, especially in Dragon Age II - where I was limited to playing as Hawke. I really enjoyed my Surana Warden, while I've had many problems playing as Hawke (including his Andrastian views).

Trendy has nothing to do with it. It's an issue of personal preference, and the enjoyment some have in playing as a fictional race. Some players have stated they aren't going to bother with Inquisition because they don't prefer to play as humans in fantasy games, while people like me are willing to wait and see if there's something that tips the balance for us to purchase and play Inquisition. As it stands, I'm willing to hear more about the new Dragon Age before writing it off completely, but if I'm being honest, I'm not really on the side of actually purchasing it. I'm willing to wait and see, though. 

You do realize the Andrastian part depends on you... heck you could make a city elf/ dwarf and even a Dalish believe in the maker or at least aknowledging the maker.

You do realize I said Andrastian human in the very line you bolded, correct? Do I even need to address how your retort goes more into a topic that is covered in the atheist threads, rather than limiting the protagonist to being a human?

The_FenixV wrote...

Plus I think that if the pc character starts with the Seekers then that is reason enough to only be human. 

Explain to me why any player who hates the Chantry or the templars would welcome this explanation.

[Asdrubael Vect]

The_FenixV wrote...

You do realize the Andrastian part depends on you... heck you could make a city elf/ dwarf and even a Dalish believe in the maker or at least aknowledging the maker. Plus I think that if the pc character starts with the Seekers then that is reason enough to only be human. 

1)as Elf or Dwarf you PC can  "become Andrastian"  if you really want, but in the end you will never be Andrastian(if some Dwarf or Elf say for some of Chantry sister that he want to get blessing from her, it is not mean that he was really believe in Maker or even know of what about this religion...this means that he just wants by his act to win over Chantry members) and no one would never really accept you as Andrastan if you are not non-mage human, maybe only in Tevinter Empire

no Kossind, Dwarf, Dalish(most of city elves from many countries) and many Humans(old god worchipers) would not recognise themselfs as Andrastians and they cant because they not be raised as them or was never really accept this religion for many reasons as  many circle/apostage mages who not recognise themself as Anrastians even if they was by Chantry controll

2)"if the pc character starts with the Seekers then that is reason enough to only be human. "

bull**** we are know that
1)we are not Orlais Сhantry member and we are not part of some of the Seekers who still loyal to White Divine(only Cassandra would be Seeker in our party with Grey Warden, Tevinter magister, Kossind Tal Vasgot, "Abomination" and others)
2)we can not believe in Maker and not be forced
3)we can be Mage(so we are apostage or ex-circle(and we know that they was have many elf mages))
4)we are not be Hawke(or another member of amell family)

we would work for Inquisition and according to what we know our PC would be a some kind of "Grey Warden"-independant person-mercenary who was granted big influence, resources and freedom of action to stop....Mage VS Templar war, and as we can understand some other problems

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 28 mai 2013 - 03:44 .

[Sutekh]

Rawgrim wrote...

You mean how the guards and templars notice Hawke using Blood Magic in the town-square of Kirkwall?

DA2 failing to acknowledge Blood Magic is bad. DAO failing to acknowledge race at Fort Drakon is also bad. DA2 doing it wrong doesn't make DAO better or more excusable, and certainly not more explainable. It just makes both games failing in that regard, in the respective contexts.

Modifié par Sutekh, 28 mai 2013 - 02:59 .

[Rawgrim]

Sutekh wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

You mean how the guards and templars notice Hawke using Blood Magic in the town-square of Kirkwall?

DA2 failing to acknowledge Blood Magic is bad. DAO failing to acknowledge race at Fort Drakon is also bad. DA2 doing it wrong doesn't make DAO better or more excusable, and certainly not more explainable. It just makes both games failing in that regard, in the respective contexts.

The Fort Drakon bit was ONE instance, though. To be fair, that instance also inclued the guards failing to recognize the warden and alistair\\ s traveling companions (am sure they had a description by then). In DA2 there are about 100 instances. So, yes, its worse. one mistake is excusable. 100 isn\\ t.

[Riknas]

Rawgrim wrote...

The Fort Drakon bit was ONE instance, though. To be fair, that instance also inclued the guards failing to recognize the warden and alistair s traveling companions (am sure they had a description by then). In DA2 there are about 100 instances. So, yes, its worse. one mistake is excusable. 100 isn t.

You know what's great for supporting an argument? Ridiculous amounts of hyperbole. That's good.

Modifié par Riknas, 28 mai 2013 - 03:28 .