3855 réponses à ce sujet

[Rawgrim]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Caiden012 wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I Like Cats And wrote...

So Bioware is already not listning to their fans like they said they would, awesome. Dragon Age 3 is looking real promising. //sarcasm

The fans have reached consensus BioWare! You should have listened to the consensus!

I am pretty upset actually. Just trying to be civil about it.

I said I would make changes upon request without argument, changing now.  Doesn't really change the overall message of the post though.

Rawgrim wrote...

(what does YMMV mean?)

Your mileage may vary.

In other words:  It's subjective.

Thanks. English isn`t my first language, so "shortenings" like that is beyond my comprehension 99 percent of the time.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I Like Cats And wrote...

So Bioware is already not listning to their fans like they said they would, awesome. Dragon Age 3 is looking real promising. //sarcasm

The fans have reached consensus BioWare! You should have listened to the consensus!

You're welcome to add me to the indifferent section.

[upsettingshorts]

WhiteThunder wrote...

Yeah, the overall message seems to be that, of the incredibly self-selective group of people on this forum, forming an inherently biased study, a bunch of people don't like the change, most people don't care, and a few people are happy about it.  There are 5 more people who feel positively about the change than there are people who feel very negatively.

Of course, given the fact that we're on a forum to complain about the decision, is not too surprising or at all a representative set of data.

More or less.  The idea is that the news mostly consisted of what the game won't have (racial choice, a pretty explicit thing) and was ambiguous about what would allegedly be replacing it (in a sense, the backgrounds), and the feedback still wasn't overwhelmingly negative.

If it's meant to convey a particular message, it's that even within a thread ostensibly purposed to collect complainers, it isn't even overwhelmingly filled with them.  It's far too small a sample size to be representative of the entire fan base at large - the internal metrics collected by BioWare are a far better source for that than anything we can assemble here - but it is meant to throw a wet blanket over folks inclined to assert that the forums are united in their opposition to the decision.  Those strongly in favor or strongly opposed are likely to post more but those votes aren't any more valuable than the drive-by indifferent poster.

The developers are of course already aware of this, but at the time of posting there were a handful of folks - in multiple threads - accusing BioWare of not listening to their fans.  Yet, as this admittedly short, brief, and unscientific sampling shows, the fanbase isn't even saying the same thing to BioWare.  In that respect, the CONSENSUS! post is intended a message to them to reconsider their perspective, not the developers.  Everyone has their preferences and we're all within our rights to be as happy or as mad about human-only protagonists as we want, but I can't be the only one frustrated when someone many people strangers confidently claim to speak for me.

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

The fans have reached consensus BioWare! You should have listened to the consensus!

You're welcome to add me to the indifferent section.

I would, but a lot of folks have posted since then and I don't want to go back and include everyone who commented after that post.  It's basically an "up till this point" scorecard.  Duly noted, however.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 22 octobre 2012 - 05:12 .

[Sabariel]

Total bummer that, again, I'm stuck playing a human. I'm also rather confused as to why one makes these beautiful, vast worlds filled with fantastical races.... and then turns around and says: "No, you can only be a boring old human."

Why, I say! Why!?

Modifié par Sabariel, 22 octobre 2012 - 05:16 .

[WhiteThunder]

LinksOcarina wrote...

WhiteThunder wrote...

MorningBird wrote...

Once again: no matter what decisions you make in DAO, the end result is always the same outcome: you defeat the Archdemon and the Blight ends.  You seriously seem to be arguing that this was perfectly okay for Origins, but unforgivable in DA2.

Although if I may go out on a limb, I think your actual problem with DA2 is that there were no epilogue cards... The decisions you made in DAO did not influence the end game battle any more than 'templars or mages' did in DA2.  However, the consequences of your decisions throughout DAO were confirmed in the epilogue cards (which were/are still subject to change) whereas your consequences in DA2 were either shown throughout the acts, or are being saved for DA3.

Not to mention that there were no choices in DA2 that had an actual effect on the world itself, or on the lives of multiple people.  Name a choice in DA2 comparable to deciding whether or not to destroy the Anvil of the Void.

****ing hell...ok one more real quick before I sleep.

Anders fate.

IF he is alive, he can be running the damn resistance for all we know. If he is dead, he could be used as both a pariah and a symbol. It also affects Sebastian as well.

Or how about the Arishok and how the Book of Koslun is recovered, if at all? 

Well, seeing as how you can stab Leliana in the stomach and cut off her head only for her to get better by the time DA2 rolls around, I'm not sure if Anders is actually dead. [kinda kidding]

The Book of Koslun is not recovered. Even if you give them Isabela, she escapes with it a few days later.

The Anvil of the Void allows Orzammar to create golems. Even though Branka eventually goes crazy, that fundamentally changes the future of Orzammar.

[AlexanderCousland]

Basically, they wrote this story for a human. Elves & Dwarves have no business as a protaginist in this story. For the people who dont like it...eh..kick rocks. Lol.

As long as they dont have Varric sitting in a chair telling us what Already Happend!
(in hindsight that was an incredible indication that choice was minimum in DA2)

I hope they come up with a significant reward for players who played both DAO & DA2


I reserve the right to hate that they eliminated race options

But I shall, above all else, Remain optomistic!!!

[Travie]

Looks like they aren't going for replayability this time around...

This is actually really depressing for me. I had some really high hopes for this game and something tells me this is the first of many disappointing announcements.

[TamiBx]

I feel like, right now, it makes sense to be human. Why? Because the main story right now is Templar vs Mages, and, like it or not, it would make absolutely no sense for dwarves to be involved so deeply in the whole situation. Humans? Yes. Elves? Maybe. But dwarves? No. They can't use magic, so I don't see why they would want to join the cause...

[WhiteThunder]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

 It's far too small a sample size to be representative of the entire fan base at large - the internal metrics collected by BioWare are a far better source for that than anything we can assemble here - but it is meant to throw a wet blanket over folks inclined to assert that the forums are united in their opposition to the decision.  

Oh, I have no illusions that I'm part of a united majority a la Retake ME3.  It's more that anyone who has a differing opinion from myself is not only wrong, but a bad person to boot.  

[this is sarcasm, for our slower compatriots who will undoubtedly accuse me of being mean]

[Monica21]

LobselVith8 wrote...
This thread is about people commenting on the information we have so far; specifically, the news about Inquisition being limited to a human protagonist. I'm simply commenting on my opinion about the lack of racial options in Inquisition. Xil was doing the same when she addressed that she saw it as a mistake. Considering the vilification of mages, it seems odd to me that Elves and Dwarves are excluded as potential protagonists while a mage protagonist is going to be available, based on what the developers have said.

And the information we have so far is incredibly limited. There are a lot of possibilities for why it could make sense to play as a mage. If it is odd that the PC ends up being a mage inquisitor, then I'm hopeful that, given the difficulty people had hand-waving playing a mage in DA2, BioWare will have created an environment where the unusualness of it is recognized. The point is that we just don't know. We don't even know what the Inquisition will be about. Without knowing what we're doing, it's incredibly premature to discuss why a gameplay decision is inherently wrong.

[AlexanderCousland]

Choices in DAO:

1. Arl Eamons Family (isolde, connor, both)
2. Werewolves or Dalish
3. King of Orzammar, Branka or Caradin
4. Fereldan Monarch, Lohgain or Alistair.
5. Who dies slaying the Archdemon? if anyone, Dark ritual

Choices in DA2:

1. Carver/Bethany Mage Templar or Warden
2. Anders Live or Die
3. Mages or Templars.

I think the difference in choice is pretty clear. What bioware might do to spite origins players is make those choices from DA2 more meaningful to DA3.

[upsettingshorts]

Those aren't "choices" those are "plot flags." Not all choices are plot flags. DAO has a disadvantage in that it tells you which choices will be a big deal and which aren't in the epilogue cards. Any choice in DA2 could conceivably be a big deal in the future. That's not something we can know for sure. Feynriel could either be a big deal or totally irrelevant, for example.

DAO certainly let us set more plot flags though.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 22 octobre 2012 - 05:42 .

[Pauravi]

Eh.. don't really care, and I often play elves when given the chance.
I played an elf first in DAO, although I found that I liked the look of humans better and used one as my "canon" play-through. Truthfully, though, after the origin story it changed almost nothing of real consequence during the course of the game (even if it did change the possible ending circumstances). I didn't feel like I was missing anything having to be a human in DA2, so I'm really pretty ambivalent.

It'd be a cool option if it were available, but you always have to give something up for that sort of flexibility and, TBH, I'd rather have a single, deeper, more integrated and personalized story and content for a human protagonist than to have the option of having pointy ears.

[TheShadowWolf911]

i am highly angry at the thought of this, my wardens were 2 dwarves and a elf, and i was hoping to finally make a kossith.

come on Bioware. this is a fantasy series, let peoples embrace the fantasy.

[redneck nosferatu]

As someone who advocated a return to racial choice two months ago, I am dissappointed; but from what little has been revealed of Inquisition's premise, I can understand the reasons behind the decision. Mage-Templar War, an Inquisition, these are pretty human concerns overall.

If we are given the choice to play other races in multiplayer, then I will be quite satisfied. Because I still want to be a kossith warrior.

Modifié par redneck nosferatu, 22 octobre 2012 - 05:50 .

[Firky]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Those aren't "choices" those are "plot flags." Not all choices are plot flags. DAO has a disadvantage in that it tells you which choices will be a big deal and which aren't in the epilogue cards. Any choice in DA2 could conceivably be a big deal in the future. That's not something we can know for sure. Feynriel could either be a big deal or totally irrelevant, for example.

DAO certainly let us set more plot flags though.

It did?

I'm not disputing it, necessarily. I just got a different impression.

(Edit: Unless you mean for import. Maybe Origins, then. Or the conditionals that came with racial choice.)

Modifié par Firky, 22 octobre 2012 - 05:57 .

[Iron_JG]

I'd be somewhat a hypocrite to complain about human-only, given I never play dwarves. In like any game, ever. Elves, FTW, then humans.

Still, based on fan commentary and reviews on DA2, I think it's fair to classify "lack of race options" as a misdemeanor offense, at best. Admittedly I have no data, but, if you asked most fans what DA2 did wrong, do you think most of them will lead off with "lack of race options"?

Regardless, eliminating choice in one area obligates Bioware to reintroduce choice in other areas. Instead of assuming DA3 won't be good, we should instead ask, "how is Bioware leveraging the freed-up resources and narrative simplification to make a better game?"

That question isn't answerable now, and I think people saying, with so little other info on the game, that they won't buy it now is very unfair. Different playable races, like any other feature, have to be done well to matter.

That being said, I'm curious if Bioware peeps would answer: Would you make a future DA game where we can only play an elf, dwarf or kossith? If not, don't you think being always denied these other races, with their vastly different perspectives, inhibits the growth of Thedas and the kinds of stories you can tell? I think a game from the perspective of a kossith, born and raised in the Qun, would be especially interesting.

Modifié par Iron_JG, 22 octobre 2012 - 05:54 .

[Savber100]

Lets be honest the ONLY difference of Dragon Age origins where pretty much the intro section and the occasional shout-out of "YOU ARE AN ELF!" here and there.

It just isn't the game maker we think it is. It's cool but not what defined DA for me.

[Palipride47]

Savber100 wrote...

Lets be honest the ONLY difference of Dragon Age origins where pretty much the intro section and the occasional shout-out of "YOU ARE AN ELF!" here and there.

It just isn't the game maker we think it is. It's cool but not what defined DA for me.

Unfortunate but closer to truth than not.......(note people, I said CLOSER, not that it was)

If that same amount of "difference shows in differing human origins, I'll be happy, and resign myself to elves and kossith for later (which "they say" that are trying to get towards) 

[Foolsfolly]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I Like Cats And wrote...

So Bioware is already not listning to their fans like they said they would, awesome. Dragon Age 3 is looking real promising. //sarcasm

The fans have reached consensus BioWare! You should have listened to the consensus!

I'm in the slight disappointment category. I was hoping for multiple races. This news... isn't so surprising but still unwelcome. Slight disappointment indeed.

[Fidget6]

Hardly surprising since I think all future Dragon Age games will be more similar to DA2 then Origins, and honestly I don't really mind. I played humans most of the time in Origins anyways.

[Hadea]

I am pretty disappointed that I won't get to be an elf or dwarf again, but that doesn't mean I won't like the game as a whole.  I hated that DA2 was human only, but I still managed to enjoy it immensely.  In fact, there were quite a few things I didn't like about DA2, but I still enjoyed it because it had enough of the things I did like to make me happy.

[Reznore57]

I'm not surprised we will be playing as human.
I don't care , I always play human anyway.
I'm a bit sorry for people who really like playing an another race ..
If I couldn't play a female pc , i guess i wouldn't buy the game at all.

I hope this time since we're only gonna play a human , there would be differences between classes.
Meaning the story would change a bit if you play a rogue/warrior/mage.

[Adeph]

I think it was inevitable and perfectly logical to have a human as the protagonist given what we know or suspect the story will revolve around. In other words I'm not surprised and as long as the story is good I won't mind at all.

[Bondari the Reloader]

I'm disappointed in only being able to play a human. While I usually play humans my first time through a game, I like to branch out for subsequent playthroughs (though for DA:O I still haven't played a dwarf; I like playing healers, and since dwarves can't be mages that's discouraged me so far). Can it still be a fun game? Absolutely, but I'm still a little sad.

What I'm actually more upset about is the fact that the backgrounds won't be playable. I loved the origins in DA:O. They reminded me of the class strongholds from BG2 except more involving. While some don't think they matter much in the grand scheme of things (and I'm not saying those who feel that way are wrong), I tend to side with those who say that the race I choose affects how I role-play the character, even if the game doesn't always react to it. I really hope they're serious about making the backgrounds "significant" (though that's such a subjective term I'm sure the end result will lead to much raging regardless of what it is). For me, getting back to a BG2 level would be nice. Anything less and I'll probably be disappointed.

(Also apologies if anything I've said is annoyingly redundant. I was only able to make it through the first 18 pages of this thread before I felt my brain starting to melt. )