3855 réponses à ce sujet

[ianvillan]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

I wouldn't trust EA's marketing team to come near any game of mine with a 39 and 1/2 foot long pole with their juvenile, ineffective and sophmoric attempts, but having someone with sales experience (and not marketing) addressing the fans may be a better route. Companies forget all too often they sell ideas just as often as they sell products, there just isn't a crystal clear sticker price.

Just popping back in here to note that any time this thread or any other wants to go off topic into a "David Silverman made me roll my eyes on a regular basis" thread, I'd be all for that.

I dont want to start a conversation bashing David Silverman, but I think the marketing for DA2 contributed to the wide split between the fanbases of DA2 and Origins.

[DarthLaxian]

well there are a few things i could say to you folks at bioware about stickig with a human-protagonist - most of them are curses and swear-words (!) so i will NOT say them here (also i am currently cursing out loud), and will stick with:

NOT AGAIN!

it is just bad IMHO, taking out the choice to play "something else" the human...it would make the game that much better, eve more if choice would really influence the story (like elves being treated worse then humans, dwarfes (from underground) not being used to the surface etc.)

i can understand why you do it this way, but you should beware of ruining yourself (as in bioware as a company), your series (Dragon Age has the potential to dominate the market, but you yourself and your parent-company (EA) do not use it!) and the love your fans have for you...

greetings LAX
ps: now i have stopped cursing and have started being sad!

[Xewaka]

ianvillan wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...
I wouldn't trust EA's marketing team to come near any game of mine with a 39 and 1/2 foot long pole with their juvenile, ineffective and sophmoric attempts, but having someone with sales experience (and not marketing) addressing the fans may be a better route. Companies forget all too often they sell ideas just as often as they sell products, there just isn't a crystal clear sticker price.

Just popping back in here to note that any time this thread or any other wants to go off topic into a "David Silverman made me roll my eyes on a regular basis" thread, I'd be all for that.

I dont want to start a conversation bashing David Silverman, but I think the marketing for DA2 contributed to the wide split between the fanbases of DA2 and Origins.

Huh. I always thought the one thing everybody agreed with was the fact that Silverman's antics were terrible and intelligence insulting.
On topic, they probably have had a list in the office detailing why the main character should (and shouldn't) be a human, and in the end decided for it. That doesn't mean I agree with the decision, because as always, less options for the player are bad, from a player perspective. Anything that reduces the control the player has over his character(s) is always met with reserve, particularly when it's an option formerly present and now gone. Even if 90% of the players in Origins chose human (I think the telemetry marked the numbers close to that, don't quote me because I can't find the reference), the fact that the option existed was an added value by itself.

[The Elder King]

TheShadowWolf911 wrote...

also i feel as though i must say, in the case of voice acting with races, why not take the bloody SWTOR route and make use the same 2 voice actors for all races?

then instead of having to hire more voice actors, you only gotta have the 2 record a few more lines.

The voice acting isn't the (only) reason why they'll not make race options. Cinematics's cost due to different height and body is another reason. The story might have influenced the decision of making the human-only PC.

[picnicprincess]

Sure I would have liked to play as an elf again but I'm looking forward to at least having the different backgrounds. I think it's a fair compromise.

[Dutchess]

Well, this just sucks. My faith in the game has dropped tremendously with this announcement. I recall all the promises of "more custumization", but here we already have the biggest constraint on character custumization possible in the DA world. Restricting costumization to allow for more custumization? I'm not buying that. That's what they said about DA2, and that game had not even half the options given in DAO, even though you were restricted to that one human protagonist.

If I have the choice, I do not play as a human. One of the fantasy races always has my preference, and I will try the human out only after I have completed at least one play-through with a different race.

With this information only it sounds like Bioware is going for the cheap way again. It's up to them to show this choice will truly offer benefits that make it worthwhile. For now, chance of me pre-ordering the game/buying it at release: 0%.

[Drakkoone]

Bioware's RPGs are less and less role playing games. I don't think you have the capacity nor the will to make games that I like anymore.
I do think the voice acting is the only reason for this choice, and it's a totally wrong choice.
After the disappointment of Mass Effect 3, a new Mass Effect without Shepard, and after the disappointment of Dragon Age 2, a new Dragon Age with still no Elfs or Dwarves... I'm glad Kickstater do exist.

[DarthLaxian]

renjility wrote...

Well, this just sucks. My faith in the game has dropped tremendously with this announcement. I recall all the promises of "more custumization", but here we already have the biggest constraint on character custumization possible in the DA world. Restricting costumization to allow for more custumization? I'm not buying that. That's what they said about DA2, and that game had not even half the options given in DAO, even though you were restricted to that one human protagonist.

If I have the choice, I do not play as a human. One of the fantasy races always has my preference, and I will try the human out only after I have completed at least one play-through with a different race.

With this information only it sounds like Bioware is going for the cheap way again. It's up to them to show this choice will truly offer benefits that make it worthwhile. For now, chance of me pre-ordering the game/buying it at release: 0%.

exactly!

i would never play an "ordinary" human (a mage, ok, but a mage is not ordinary in any stretch of the word...neither is a noble IMHO...but the rest, say hawke: yes he was ordinary (when not played as a mage) because he was interchangeable with any other rogue/warrior etc. out there (even the mage could be switched with another mage...but he was "mage-bonus" IMHO ))

why not? - i am human, so why play one? (exception maybe: noble...but i rather play mages (mostly elf here) and other races!)

greetings LAX

[ianvillan]

Xewaka wrote...

ianvillan wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...
I wouldn't trust EA's marketing team to come near any game of mine with a 39 and 1/2 foot long pole with their juvenile, ineffective and sophmoric attempts, but having someone with sales experience (and not marketing) addressing the fans may be a better route. Companies forget all too often they sell ideas just as often as they sell products, there just isn't a crystal clear sticker price.

Just popping back in here to note that any time this thread or any other wants to go off topic into a "David Silverman made me roll my eyes on a regular basis" thread, I'd be all for that.

I dont want to start a conversation bashing David Silverman, but I think the marketing for DA2 contributed to the wide split between the fanbases of DA2 and Origins.

Huh. I always thought the one thing everybody agreed with was the fact that Silverman's antics were terrible and intelligence insulting.

Not just David Silvermans but the whole marketing in general, how in almost every interview they would keep saying how bad Origins was, and how they took what little was good from Origins and made them up to date and better for DA2.

When you have Bioware critizing practically everything about a game you loved it makes you more passionate about defending the game. So when it comes to the new game that is meant to be a mix of both old games but all we keep seeing is the DA2 features being included and the Origin features being dropped again it looks like Bioware still believes that thier is nothing good left from Origins to include.

[Windninja47]

I did want race selection to return, but after hearing the news it turns out that I don't really care. I like that there'll be different backgrounds though- does anyone know if these backgrounds will be Dragon age Origins style or Mass effect style?

[Annie_Dear]

Considering how this means we will most likely have a voiced character and a dialogue wheel, I'm dissapointed.

[The Elder King]

Drakkoone wrote...

Bioware's RPGs are less and less role playing games. I don't think you have the capacity nor the will to make games that I like anymore.
I do think the voice acting is the only reason for this choice, and it's a totally wrong choice.
After the disappointment of Mass Effect 3, a new Mass Effect without Shepard, and after the disappointment of Dragon Age 2, a new Dragon Age with still no Elfs or Dwarves... I'm glad Kickstater do exist.

Because the cinematics's cost of having a PC with different height and body type certainy isn't a reason for that. Or it wasn't certainly possibile to make a city elf or a casteless dwarf that were born and lived their entire life in Orlais (if the PC will have an Orlesian accent) and make them have an Orlesian accent. Nope, not at all.

[The Elder King]

Annie_Dear wrote...

Considering how this means we will most likely have a voiced character and a dialogue wheel, I'm dissapointed.

Those features were confirmed months ago. Actually, I think they never said that there was the possibility of returning to a silent PC or a the DAO text dialogue system.

[Dutchess]

Annie_Dear wrote...

Considering how this means we will most likely have a voiced character and a dialogue wheel, I'm dissapointed.

They've already made it clear they will stick with both. 

[Drakkoone]

hhh89 wrote...
Because the cinematics's cost of having a PC with different height and body type certainy isn't a reason for that.

Are you trying to explain that TOR, DAO, Drakensang, Neverwinter Nights 2, The Elder Scrolls... have done the impossible ? 

hhh89 wrote...

... and make them have an Orlesian accent.

That's exatly voice acting...

[The Elder King]

Drakkoone wrote...

hhh89 wrote...
Because the cinematics's cost of having a PC with different height and body type certainy isn't a reason for that.

Are you trying to explain that TOR, DAO, Drakensang, Neverwinter Nights 2, The Elder Scrolls... have done the impossible ?

No, I'm saying that there's a cost for doing this, and they decide to not do use the budget for this. And I don't know well about TOR  (which had an enormous budget, by the way) and Drakensang, but the cinematics in NWN2 and TES game aren't on the same level of most recent Bioware game.

hhh89 wrote...

... and make them have an Orlesian accent.

That's exatly voice acting...

Yes, and it's possible to have an elf, human or dwarf having the same accent,so it's not necessary to have 6 voice  actors, so there's not an additional cost by having multiple race options, in this case.

Modifié par hhh89, 22 octobre 2012 - 09:35 .

[Drakkoone]

hhh89 wrote...
...aren't on the same level of most recent Bioware game.

You mean when an assault rifle suddenly spawn in the hand of my gun wielding character and when my character speak with someone who is turning back and has it's head making a 180° turn ?

No, recent Bioware game's cinematics are not on a "special level".

Modifié par Drakkoone, 22 octobre 2012 - 09:49 .

[The Elder King]

I'm not saying that recent Bioware's games cinematics are on a special level. I'm saying that they have a far larger role and presence, and that the cost is greater.

[Drakkoone]

Greater than what ? Anyway, there will be elfs and dwarves in cinematics, so I think the only reason is voice acting.

[The Elder King]

Drakkoone wrote...

Greater than what ? Anyway, there will be elfs and dwarves in cinematics, so I think the only reason is voice acting.

Because they have to use 6 different models (or eight, since there are people who want a Kossith option) instead of two, every time the PC is present (while for elf NPC they don't have to use a differnt model, for example) and there are issues during cutscene cause by different body eight and type.
To be fair, I'm no expert on the issue. I read posts posted by both people more expert than me and Bioware devs (Epler probably) so I can't explain the matter clearly as I wish. The point is, having a different race PC has an additional cost for the cinematics, while it doesn't necessarily have in terms of voice acting.

Modifié par hhh89, 22 octobre 2012 - 10:03 .

[Drakkoone]

They should as well let only hurlocks as enemy in the game, because you understand, having differents types of ennemies cost a lot, they must create animations and textures and sounds and they have to balance the challenge...
The same can be said for every aspect of every game.

[ianvillan]

WhiteThunder wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

isometric view is not the end-all, be all though. And to be frank, it's more cumbersome in most cases than a typical 3-D pov, especially when you have pathing issues and the lack of depth perception in such images. 

It has its place, no doubt, but I just don't see it being a part of the series anymore. If it is, great, if not, well it never bothered me personally. Sorry it hurt you so much. 

See, my issue is that both of our playstyles could easily have been accommodated,  and were, in fact , accommodated in Dragon Age: Origins.  There is no way in which removing that feature improved the gameplay for anyone.  All it did was worsen it for some people.  That's why I listed it as an example of Bioware denying a solid portion of the fanbase something they wanted for no reason.

I was sure one of the devs said the reason for the isometric view removal was because they had created great looking ceilings and with an isometric view you would miss out of seeing those.

[The Elder King]

Drakkoone wrote...

They should as well let only hurlocks as enemy in the game, because you understand, having differents types of ennemies cost a lot, they must create animations and textures and sounds and they have to balance the challenge...
The same can be said for every aspect of every game.

You don't understand. If they put hurlocks in a part of the game as the enemy, in that particulary cutscene in which, for example, and hurlock emissary will destory a village, they wouldn't have to make 8 different models for the hurlocks emissary. That's what they have to for every time there's the PC in a cutscene. Again, I'm no expert, but I think that this will cause an additional cost, and other people with knowledge on the matter (not only devs) confimed that.
I'm not saying that you should consider this a good justification for the lack of race options, but that there's more than the voice acting to consider for the race options (expecially considering that there's a way to having 3 different race options, only two voice actors and no additional costs).

[The Elder King]

ianvillan wrote...




I was sure one of the devs said the reason for the isometric view removal was because they had created great looking ceilings and with an isometric view you would miss out of seeing those.

As a console player, I couldn't care less about great looking ceilings (plus, I didn't like much DA2 graphics, but that's another matter). I don't know if it's possible (I doubt it), but I'd have liked the option of having the isometric view on console too.