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[TheShadowWolf911]

hhh89 wrote...

ianvillan wrote...




I was sure one of the devs said the reason for the isometric view removal was because they had created great looking ceilings and with an isometric view you would miss out of seeing those.

As a console player, I couldn't care less about great looking ceilings (plus, I didn't like much DA2 graphics, but that's another matter). I don't know if it's possible (I doubt it), but I'd have liked the option of having the isometric view on console too.

hear hear!

[The Elder King]

TheShadowWolf911 wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

ianvillan wrote...




I was sure one of the devs said the reason for the isometric view removal was because they had created great looking ceilings and with an isometric view you would miss out of seeing those.

As a console player, I couldn't care less about great looking ceilings (plus, I didn't like much DA2 graphics, but that's another matter). I don't know if it's possible (I doubt it), but I'd have liked the option of having the isometric view on console too.

hear hear!

Well, to be fair, I played a lot of games on PC when I was younger. So that might be the reason for which I have this opinion.

[Drakkoone]

hhh89 wrote...

Drakkoone wrote...

They should as well let only hurlocks as enemy in the game, because you understand, having differents types of ennemies cost a lot, they must create animations and textures and sounds and they have to balance the challenge...
The same can be said for every aspect of every game.

You don't understand. If they put hurlocks in a part of the game as the enemy, in that particulary cutscene in which, for example, and hurlock emissary will destory a village, they wouldn't have to make 8 different models for the hurlocks emissary. That's what they have to for every time there's the PC in a cutscene. Again, I'm no expert, but I think that this will cause an additional cost, and other people with knowledge on the matter (not only devs) confimed that.
I'm not saying that you should consider this a good justification for the lack of race options, but that there's more than the voice acting to consider for the race options (expecially considering that there's a way to having 3 different race options, only two voice actors and no additional costs).

No what you don't understand is that when they say (or when you say) it will cost too much, it's just an excuse : you have absolutely no sight on the game total budget nor the developpement budget.
DAO was 80-100 hours long, with 3 races, 6 original origins stories and it cost me the same as DA2 who was 40-50 hours long with far less content. Skyrim or Kingdom of Armalur or Diablo 3 are sold the same price as Call of Duty, Syndicate or Dishonored.
Which quantity of content in RPG games a player is legitimate to expect ?
DAO offered us much more than DA2, but for EA, I think a sold unit of DA2 was far more profitable than a sold unite of DAO (not quite sure because the total budget include the marketing). So if they can sell DA3 without the cost of additional work on playable races, they will.
The cinematic difficulty you speak of do cost on the budget, but the voice acting is on a totally diffrent level because it must be localised and because it is outsourced, while animation work is done internally.

[Ayanna Thalis]

I am a little (though not much) surprised that they did not consider to give the origins back to the player. One of the things that made DA:O special was the fact you could create a truly unique character. What you selected as your race and background helped you define your character. It allowed you to (feel like you) help create the story, than merely watch the story unfold as with DA2.

DA:O offered varied experiences, and when I look back at the games I have played concerning all of the different origins, they each presented a unique feel to the game. Yes, the outcome is generally the same. Your Warden is kicking the Archdemon's ass. But by allowing the player to decide who the Warden is, and whether he or she dies, is important. I've played DA2 at least 3 times, but every time I always feel like I'm going yeah yeah yeah, remember this. Each class does not bring anything entirely unique to the table, concerning story content. I thought it would initially matter whether you are a mage or not etc, but even then, no matter who you root for..... You're going to be fighting both sides in the end. So that is what is disappointing. The choices have left. The illusion of story creation is gone, and now merely you are participating in a story that will always have the same outcome.

In saying all this, DA2 did grow on me. When I first played it I was highly disappointed, but now I can play it quite easily. But ultimately, it's nothing in comparison with DA:O. That was sheer quality. I don't care how it looked, or how dated it seemed, it was a great game.

[The Elder King]

Drakkoone wrote...



No what you don't understand is that when they say (or when you say) it will cost too much, it's just an excuse : you have absolutely no sight on the game total budget nor the developpement budget.
DAO was 80-100 hours long, with 3 races, 6 original origins stories and it cost me the same as DA2 who was 40-50 hours long with far less content. Skyrim or Kingdom of Armalur or Diablo 3 are sold the same price as Call of Duty, Syndicate or Dishonored.
Which quantity of content in RPG games a player is legitimate to expect ?
DAO offered us much more than DA2, but for EA, I think a sold unit of DA2 was far more profitable than a sold unite of DAO (not quite sure because the total budget include the marketing). So if they can sell DA3 without the cost of additional work on playable races, they will.
The cinematic difficulty you speak of do cost on the budget, but the voice acting is on a totally diffrent level because it must be localised and because it is outsourced, while animation work is done internally.

I'm not saying that the cost is too much. I'm saying that there's an additional cost in making more races in terms of cinematics, which you said there wasn't. And I'm saying that they decided to locate that cost elsewhere, for whatever reason.
The fact that a game like Skyrim (or even DAO) is sold at the same price of COD is a thing I don't agree with (though at the end I don't care since I never bought a 10 hours game at full price), and a lot of people are pissed at games with few hours in SP that are sold at the same price as games that are far longer.
While I agree on DA2 having less content than DAO, you have to consider that it has a shorter development cycle (and this I think it was EA's fault, because they wanted to maximize DAO's success). We don't know how much budget DA2 had, so I don't know if this was a factor.
About the voice acting, considering that two actor at least are needed, if they'll make the six playable PC (male/female elf, human and dwarf), with the same voice (which I explained it's possible), there is NO addictional cost or problem. They could've perfectly done this, if they wanted to.

Modifié par hhh89, 22 octobre 2012 - 10:58 .

[Drakkoone]

hhh89 wrote...

I'm not saying that the cost is too much. I'm saying that there's an additional cost in making more races in terms of cinematics, which you said there wasn't.

Drakkoone wrote...

The cinematic difficulty you speak of do cost on the budget , but the voice acting is on a totally diffrent level because it must be localised and because it is outsourced, while animation work is done internally.

 

hhh89 wrote...
[...] if they'll make the six playable PC (male/female elf, human and dwarf), with the same voice (which I explained it's possible), there is NO addictional cost or problem. They could've perfectly done this, if they wanted to.

It's already difficult with only one male and one female voice for a character that can be mage, thief or fighter, kind or evil. The voice acting kills immersion and combined with the dialogue wheel, you lose all control of what your character says.

[The Elder King]

[quote]Drakkoone wrote...

[quote]hhh89 wrote...

I'm not saying that the cost is too much. I'm saying that there's an additional cost in making more races in terms of cinematics, which you said there wasn't.

[/quote]


[quote]Drakkoone wrote...

The cinematic difficulty you speak of do cost on the budget , but the voice acting is on a totally diffrent level because it must be localised and because it is outsourced, while animation work is done internally.[/quote] 

[/quote]

I said you wasn't. That means you said it didn't have a cost in your previous posts, before the one I last quoted. I should've said that you recognized it. If I didn't understand your earlier post, then I apologize.

[quote]
[quote]hhh89 wrote...
[...] if they'll make the six playable PC (male/female elf, human and dwarf), with the same voice (which I explained it's possible), there is NO addictional cost or problem. They could've perfectly done this, if they wanted to.
[/quote]

It's already difficult with only one male and one female voice for a character that can be mage, thief or fighter, kind or evil. The voice acting kills immersion and combined with the dialogue wheel, you lose all control of what your character says.[/quote]
[/quote]

That doesn't mean they couldn't do it. If it already kills immersion, it doesn't make a difference if they add two races.
The voice acting was already a given. They never said that they were considering returning to DAO approach.

Modifié par hhh89, 22 octobre 2012 - 11:29 .

[soulchild]

Well, I'm out. You guys burned me with DA2 and ME3. If I could play DA3 as my Warden I would be in, but making this choice for me is a deal breaker.


Feels like JRPG... anyway, I'll read the story synopsis once people burn threw the game.

Project: Enternity looks to be my saving grace
+1

Modifié par soulchild, 22 octobre 2012 - 11:34 .

[NasChoka]

 In rpgs I like to play other races. A Human who plays a human is not much 'role playing' to me. It's like a taxi driver who is acting as a taxi driver in a movie. 

It makes sense for an Inquisitor to be a human so I understand this decision. I am looking forward to learn more about these human origins.

Maybe we get our elves/dwarves back in Dragon Age 4 revenge of the dalish 

[InfinitePaths]

I'm OK with this.It gives you a neutral perspective when talking about decisions related to dwarfs/elves

[Rylor Tormtor]

I am, of course, disappointed. But I find it hard to believe any of you can truly be surprised. I mean, the trend in DA has been to been to limit choices as the IP moves forward. I mean, it was painfully obvious.

Bioware did an amazing thing already. They convinced not to buy ME3. The first PC game that Bioware has made that I did not buy. Is there hope for DA:I? Maybe. I know I am not the target audience for Bioware's RPG direction now, which is fine, but I am still disappointed.

EDIT - Also, the announcement that "future" DA products will have racial selection? Pathetic. Seriously, if you don't like some of your fans reaction to your choices then don't tell them. Don't lead them on with a completely unlikely possibility of making another DAO type game. Its just cowardly. 

Modifié par Rylor Tormtor, 22 octobre 2012 - 11:48 .

[nightscrawl]

Wow a confirmation on something!

PsychoBlonde wrote...

I don't like it or hate it, I simply think it's not a key issue. Lots of great games make you play as a human (or even restrict you to a single human male), and tons of mediocre games let you play as other races.

The reason why I like the Dragon Age games has little to do with whether or not I can play an elf or a dwarf, although I do feel that the elves/dwarves have kind of been marginalized in their lore importance. I'd like to see more done with them even if we can't play as them.

Wow this is exactly how I feel.

I'll add that while I'm a tad disappointed, particularly where dwarves are concerned, I'm not at all surprised. Humans, moreso even than elven magi (even those a part of the Circle, as Orsino was,) have the largest stake in the mage/templar war. The Chantry is a human institution. These are human laws. This is, by and large, a human problem, even though it can affect other races.

I still maintain the hope that after we get this whole issue over with in some form or other, we can put more focus onto the other rares and lore by bringing them back into the picture as a playable race option. I'm hoping this isn't going to turn into something like the end of Lord of the Rings where it's all "now is the time of men" and the other races just fade away...



I also feel really badly for those who will take this confirmation hard =/.

[InfinitePaths]

soulchild wrote...

Well, I'm out. You guys burned me with DA2 and ME3. If I could play DA3 as my Warden I would be in, but making this choice for me is a deal breaker.


Feels like JRPG... anyway, I'll read the story synopsis once people burn threw the game.

Project: Enternity looks to be my saving grace
+1

I think people think too much of Project Eternety,and will be dissapointed when it comes out.Anyways i have faith in the DA team for DA3

[Drakkoone]

hhh89 wrote...

That doesn't mean they couldn't do it.

It's technicaly doable, of course. But so far, they haven't.
 In DAO, there is no PC voive acting, in DA2 only human, and in TOR a diffrent couple of voice actor for each class. And if they haven't done it, there is a reason, the same reason as for DA3 and I think it is : if there is dwarves and elves PC, there is to be diffrents voices actings for dwarves and elves.

If it already kills immersion, it doesn't make a difference if they add two races.
The voice acting was already a given.  

No, if they do, it will worsen a lot

They never said that they were considering returning to DAO approach. 

Don't even think of pretending i said the contrary 

[Rylor Tormtor]

HeriocGreyWarden wrote...

soulchild wrote...

Well, I'm out. You guys burned me with DA2 and ME3. If I could play DA3 as my Warden I would be in, but making this choice for me is a deal breaker.


Feels like JRPG... anyway, I'll read the story synopsis once people burn threw the game.

Project: Enternity looks to be my saving grace
+1

I think people think too much of Project Eternety,and will be dissapointed when it comes out.Anyways i have faith in the DA team for DA3

I think people think too much of Dragon Age: Inquisition, and will be disappointed when it comes out. Anyways i have faith in the PE team for PE. 

Modifié par Rylor Tormtor, 22 octobre 2012 - 11:50 .

[Drakkoone]

HeriocGreyWarden wrote...

I think people think too much of Project Eternety,and will be dissapointed when it comes out.Anyways i have faith in the DA team for DA3

I think precisely the opposite 

[FenrirBlackDragon]

Well darn... and here I was planning to play an elf mage to break up the monotony in my Amell continuation. But, I guess to stick to all human mages in that canon now that I know the news. (Well, except for the continuation I am planning out for a let's play, which features a Dwarf Commoner.) I am sad, but I think there are several things more important. If they can expand appearance options in the character creator (by quality, not necessarily quantity), and make a really awesome story with amazing companions, then I am all for it.

I will reserve any real concrete opinions until Bioware is willing to give us more information to go on.

Modifié par FenrirBlackDragon, 22 octobre 2012 - 11:54 .

[InfinitePaths]

Making more races is stupid if you can't do it right.In DAO 99% people didn't notice that I'm a dwarf or an elf,and I'n every decision that is about dwarfs or elfs i feel forced to side with my race,I think human is the best neutral perspective.

[The Elder King]

[quote]Drakkoone wrote...




If it already kills immersion, it doesn't make a difference if they add two races.
The voice acting was already a given.  

[/quote]

No, if they do, it will worsen a lot[/quote]

If you say so, VA isn't nearly as fundamental to my role-playing enjoyment as for you


[quote]


They never said that they were considering returning to DAO approach. 


[/quote]


Don't even think of pretending i said the contrary 
[/quote]

I didn't said that. It meant that we already knew there'll be VA. By your logic, you already knew there'll be no race options.

[Rune-Chan]

To be honest I almost always choose human where the option is available anyway, so personally it does not really affect me.

That said, I hope this means that they will spend considerable time in making diversity in other areas. Such as character creation, and things that should have affected DA2's plot such as whether or not you are a mage or not. It'd be good if the choice of Circle Mage, Apostate, Templar, or other was an option.

Ayanna Thalis wrote...

I am a little (though not much)
surprised that they did not consider to give the origins back to the
player. One of the things that made DA:O special was the fact you could
create a truly unique character. What you selected as your race and
background helped you define your character. It allowed you to (feel
like you) help create the story, than merely watch the story unfold as
with DA2.

DA:O offered varied experiences, and when I look back
at the games I have played concerning all of the different origins, they
each presented a unique feel to the game. Yes, the outcome is generally
the same. Your Warden is kicking the Archdemon's ass. But by allowing
the player to decide who the Warden is, and whether he or she dies, is
important. I've played DA2 at least 3 times, but every time I always
feel like I'm going yeah yeah yeah, remember this. Each class does not
bring anything entirely unique to the table, concerning story content. I
thought it would initially matter whether you are a mage or not etc,
but even then, no matter who you root for..... You're going to be
fighting both sides in the end. So that is what is disappointing. The
choices have left. The illusion of story creation is gone, and now
merely you are participating in a story that will always have the same
outcome.

In saying all this, DA2 did grow on me. When I first
played it I was highly disappointed, but now I can play it quite easily.
But ultimately, it's nothing in comparison with DA:O. That was sheer
quality. I don't care how it looked, or how dated it seemed, it was a
great game.

Or to put it even better, this. This sums up my feelings perfectly.

Modifié par Machines Are Us, 22 octobre 2012 - 12:30 .

[ianvillan]

HeriocGreyWarden wrote...

Making more races is stupid if you can't do it right.In DAO 99% people didn't notice that I'm a dwarf or an elf,and I'n every decision that is about dwarfs or elfs i feel forced to side with my race,I think human is the best neutral perspective.

Well in DA2 99% of people didn't notice that I was a mage so should we cut that feature out as well.

[edeheusch]

To be honest I never had high expectations for DA3 considering the direction that DA2took, however I am optimistic and the fact that Bioware has announced that Dragon Age 3 will be “the best from both games, Dragon Age: Origins and Dragon Age 2″ give me some hope that they had learned from their mistakes.
Well, this news has the benefit of clarifying the situation for me. The voiced protagonist that I did not like much and particularly the paraphrasing system that I really hate in DA2 are back (for what I have read) but the race selection that was present in all fantasy cRPGs I enjoyed and was better implemented in DAO than in any other cRPG I have played is out.
Now I know that when they speak about “the best from both games, Dragon Age: Origins and Dragon Age 2″ they don’t speak at all about what I consider to be the best of both games at all. I don’t know if they really believe they are taking the best of both game or if it was just a commercial attempt to get back the DAO fans but from every poll that I have seen, most of the fan didn’t like the paraphrasing system at all and most of the fan really preferred to be able to choose the race of their character.
To conclude this last news was what I needed to know that they are really low chances I will buy DA3 and that I have no point to still come on the BSN to check the news about Bioware games (if DA3 is not well perceived I doubt Bioware will develop many more games and if DA3 is well perceived they will probably never come back to the type of games I like).

[Ayanna Thalis]

edeheusch wrote...

To be honest I never had high expectations for DA3 considering the direction that DA2took, however I am optimistic and the fact that Bioware has announced that Dragon Age 3 will be “the best from both games, Dragon Age: Origins and Dragon Age 2″ give me some hope that they had learned from their mistakes.

Of course they have to say this. If they said otherwise no one would buy the game.

In truth I am a little nervous about DA3 after the last Bioware/ EA outcomes..... I'm not expecting the game to be as good as DA:O or ME1/2 by a long shot. I just hope I enjoy it.

[ianvillan]

edeheusch wrote...


To be honest I never had high expectations for DA3 considering the direction that DA2took, however I am optimistic and the fact that Bioware has announced that Dragon Age 3 will be “the best from both games, Dragon Age: Origins and Dragon Age 2″ give me some hope that they had learned from their mistakes.
Well, this news has the benefit of clarifying the situation for me. The voiced protagonist that I did not like much and particularly the paraphrasing system that I really hate in DA2 are back (for what I have read) but the race selection that was present in all fantasy cRPGs I enjoyed and was better implemented in DAO than in any other cRPG I have played is out.
Now I know that when they speak about “the best from both games, Dragon Age: Origins and Dragon Age 2″ they don’t speak at all about what I consider to be the best of both games at all. I don’t know if they really believe they are taking the best of both game or if it was just a commercial attempt to get back the DAO fans but from every poll that I have seen, most of the fan didn’t like the paraphrasing system at all and most of the fan really preferred to be able to choose the race of their character.
To conclude this last news was what I needed to know that they are really low chances I will buy DA3 and that I have no point to still come on the BSN to check the news about Bioware games (if DA3 is not well perceived I doubt Bioware will develop many more games and if DA3 is well perceived they will probably never come back to the type of games I like).

When Bioware made DA2 they said they had already taken the best of Origins and put them in DA2, and with Bioware only mentioning features that were in DA2 that will be returning for the next game the saying of taking the best of both games rings hollow.

[Drakkoone]

hhh89 wrote...

By your logic, you already knew there'll be no race options.

You like putting words in people's mouth do you ?

I hoped that after DA2 controversy, ME3 ****storm, multiple employees leaving including the founders, they should spoil us to prove that they are still able to make a great RPG. I was optimistic, but it's EA after all. (Disclaimer :innocent: : i'm not saying that this won't be a great RPG, just that we won't be spoiled (by the possibility of playing a non-human))