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[Ayanna Thalis]

Pauravi wrote...

Machines Are Us wrote...

They said that about Mass Effect 3 as well, remember. In regards to being the best from ME1 and ME2.

I thought it was, in a lot of ways.
The weapons, for instance.  You could customize them, as in ME1, but the weapons themselves were numerous and unique in feel and function, as in ME2.  I thought that the weapon and armor situation in ME3 was pretty much ideal.

For me, these things are secondary and inferior compared to the experience and the story. ME3 was not what was promised, and made the previous 2 games difficult to return to. One of the main factors that encouraged you to play the first two games was to find out what it would result in. Mass Effect? Ironic name, it turns out. Minimum Effect....

But, despite this, I still have hopes for DA3.... I'll be keeping my fingers and toes crossed until its release.

[Uccio]

If thats the case then my purchase just ran further away to distant future. Waiting to hear more bad news...

Discount super sale box looks more and more confirmed.

Modifié par Ukki, 22 octobre 2012 - 12:54 .

[MelRedux]

Machines Are Us wrote...

edeheusch wrote...


To be honest I never had high expectations for DA3 considering the direction that DA2took, however I am optimistic and the fact that Bioware has announced that Dragon Age 3 will be “the best from both games, Dragon Age: Origins and Dragon Age 2″ give me some hope that they had learned from their mistakes.

They said that about Mass Effect 3 as well, remember. In regards to being the best from ME1 and ME2.

And ME3 was an amazing game. Until those last 10 minutes 

[Rylor Tormtor]

Pauravi wrote...

Rylor Tormtor wrote...

EDIT - Also, the announcement that "future" DA products will have racial selection? Pathetic. .... Don't lead them on with a completely unlikely possibility

What insider information do you have about their future products that gives you the ability to make this evaluation?

Why would they go back to it? They have justified using reasons like their precious metrics concerning what race people played in DAO and that they could write a better story with a human protaganist. In their coporate opinion, they have made the most profitable choice. Why would they go back to writing, in their opinion, crappy stories that, in their opinion, most people won't want to play?

[The Elder King]

Mel_Redux wrote...

Machines Are Us wrote...

edeheusch wrote...


To be honest I never had high expectations for DA3 considering the direction that DA2took, however I am optimistic and the fact that Bioware has announced that Dragon Age 3 will be “the best from both games, Dragon Age: Origins and Dragon Age 2″ give me some hope that they had learned from their mistakes.

They said that about Mass Effect 3 as well, remember. In regards to being the best from ME1 and ME2.

And ME3 was an amazing game. Until those last 10 minutes 

I wouldn't define it "amazing". Overall (considering the EC) I think it's a decent game. I couldn't enjoy the game as the previous, expecially for the aumont of autp-dialogue.

[Pauravi]

lament.ballad wrote...

Harle Cerulean wrote...

Teddie Sage wrote...

@hhh89: I kinda find it odd how people say the human race is boring while it's the most variable species on this planet and in video games too, though.

I find playing as a human boring, because I'm human every damn day. If I want to play a human, I can go do Real Life.

This.

But can you play a human who wields magic, or fights darkspawn, or influences the fate of an entire religious organization and the mages they try to control?  Can you speak to a Qunari Arishok, or make a deal with an ancient Witch when you're playing this "Real Life" human?  I think not.

People act as if the character's race is some all-important determining factor of how interesting a character is.  It is almost as if you believe that how a character looks, or the history of his race (which the character may or may not really be attached to in any meaningful way) is more important to how "interesting" that character is than the story that he participates in or the personality he has.  That seems completely weird and very shallow to me.  Don't get me wrong, the races were a fun option in DAO, but I didn't really think it added to how interesting my PC was at all.

[Xilizhra]

People act as if the character's race is some all-important determining factor of how interesting a character is. It is almost as if you believe that how a character looks, or the history of his race (which the character may or may not really be attached to in any meaningful way) is more important to how "interesting" that character is than the story that he participates in or the personality he has. That seems completely weird and very shallow to me. Don't get me wrong, the races were a fun option in DAO, but I didn't really think it added to how interesting my PC was at all.

It can be an extremely important part of personal roleplaying, depending on one's own tastes.

[KingRoxas]

Svanhildr wrote...

I prefer playing as humans so I have no objections. Would the choice be in the game, I would still play as a human.

Modifié par Kingroxas, 22 octobre 2012 - 01:04 .

[nightscrawl]

Harle Cerulean wrote...

On the bolded, are you kidding me?  I've seen this argument a few times, and I do not understand it one bit.  How are the elven mages less affected than human mages?  How are City Elves, who are also by-and-large Andrastian, less affected?  They don't get "get out of war free" passes because they have pointy ears; if anything, they'll be more persecuted, because elven mages have the double whammy of mage prejudice and elven prejudice against them.  The Dalish might be able to avoid it, though I have no doubt the rogue Templars will kill the Dalish and their Keepers happily whether they're trying to be uninvolved or not.  But elven Circle mages?  This is definitely their fight too.  Same with City Elves - they may have relatives who are Circle mages, or be devout Andrastians who would happily turn mages over.

*Shrug* I wasn't arguing for or against anything, it is simply my opinion on the goings on. What I wrote could very well be Bioware's (story aspect, ignoring resources here) reasoning for it. We don't know, and I doubt they'll tell us. And I didn't say it didn't affect any other races: "... even though it can affect other races."

I know that elves are persecuted, that the Dalish mages need to be wary of templars too, that the dwarves are concerned with the lyrium trade (which you didn't even mention), and that a wartorn land affects everyone. However, nothing you said changed my opinion. I was simply trying to find a potential logical reason for the race restriction for DA3 (again, outside of resources).

Additionally, if there is going to be any sort of future where mages and non-mages can co-exist, most of the Andrastians are going to have to either accept them or come to some sort of understanding with them. The majoity of Andrastians are human. (This can easily bleed over into "the future of mages" discussion, which I'm not going to get into here.)

[Caiden012]

Pauravi wrote...

lament.ballad wrote...

Harle Cerulean wrote...

Teddie Sage wrote...

@hhh89: I kinda find it odd how people say the human race is boring while it's the most variable species on this planet and in video games too, though.

I find playing as a human boring, because I'm human every damn day. If I want to play a human, I can go do Real Life.

This.

But can you play a human who wields magic, or fights darkspawn, or influences the fate of an entire religious organization and the mages they try to control?  Can you speak to a Qunari Arishok, or make a deal with an ancient Witch when you're playing this "Real Life" human?  I think not.

People act as if the character's race is some all-important determining factor of how interesting a character is.  It is almost as if you believe that how a character looks, or the history of his race (which the character may or may not really be attached to in any meaningful way) is more important to how "interesting" that character is than the story that he participates in or the personality he has.  That seems completely weird and very shallow to me.  Don't get me wrong, the races were a fun option in DAO, but I didn't really think it added to how interesting my PC was at all.

For some people it is very important and for others it isn't. Some people really don't care while for others it makes the experience more interesting.

[Pauravi]

Ayanna Thalis wrote...

Pauravi wrote...

Machines Are Us wrote...

They said that about Mass Effect 3 as well, remember. In regards to being the best from ME1 and ME2.

I thought it was, in a lot of ways.
The weapons, for instance.  You could customize them, as in ME1, but the weapons themselves were numerous and unique in feel and function, as in ME2.  I thought that the weapon and armor situation in ME3 was pretty much ideal.

For me, these things are secondary and inferior compared to the experience and the story.

While I agree (and I personally loved the experience and the story), that's a little beside my point.
When they made that "best of ME1 and ME2" statement, they were addressing complaints people had about the mechanics of the game: specifically things like not being able to customize their weapons or the appearances of their companions sufficiently (i.e. "RPG elements").

Ayanna Thalis wrote...

ME3 was not what was promised, and made the previous 2 games difficult to return to. One of the main factors that encouraged you to play the first two games was to find out what it would result in. Mass Effect? Ironic name, it turns out. Minimum Effect....

I can't say I was a fan of the ending, exactly, but I don't think that ruined the game.  The real payoff of playing each of the games, for me, was just experiencing the dialogues and interactions with all the characters.  ME3 had so many great, touching moments with your crew and old friends, I simply can't get mad at the whole game just because I didn't get the kind of detailed, personalized resolution (a-la Baldur's Gate Trilogy, ToB-ending-esque) that I wanted.  They made 3 absolutely fantastic, absorbing games with some of the most endearing characters to ever grace a video game series.  If you can really let some shortcomings in the last 10 minutes of the last game ruin that whole thing for you, I don't really think that's BioWare's fault.

[Morty Smith]

As we have yet to see anything that is actually in the game, this forum seems a bit redundant.

Like Mr. Gaider getting all defensive.

[In Exile]

Xilizhra wrote...
Humans are boring because we constantly adventure in human-controlled areas, and human PCs never have a chance to bring around different cultural views than the default, namely bland Andrastianism. A human PC adventuring for a game in elf lands could, in theory, be more interesting, but isn't being offered. A human with a different cultural/religious perspective, such as a Chasind or Tevinter Old God follower, could also be interesting, but I worry that they'll forget about the Chasind entirely and throw out the Tevinters as being lolevil.

Except that, even if Bioware were to do this... you'd just get to say very little about anything. That's how DA:O did it, by and large.

[Pauravi]

Rylor Tormtor wrote...

Pauravi wrote...

Rylor Tormtor wrote...

EDIT - Also, the announcement that "future" DA products will have racial selection? Pathetic. .... Don't lead them on with a completely unlikely possibility

What insider information do you have about their future products that gives you the ability to make this evaluation?

Why would they go back to it? They have justified using reasons like their precious metrics concerning what race people played in DAO and that they could write a better story with a human protaganist. In their coporate opinion, they have made the most profitable choice. Why would they go back to writing, in their opinion, crappy stories that, in their opinion, most people won't want to play?

You're putting a lot of words in their mouth.  It is perfectly possible that next time they won't have a story that would necessarily benefit from being tightly integrated with the character's race, or which would make the most sense with one particular race.  Or they might come up with a story that would be particularly interesting to explore from more than one racial perspective.

One of the devs has been quoted saying that this doesn't reflect on the future availability of racial options, and that he personally does like to include them -- AND that they are not primarily restricted by voice acting concerns.

You can speculate all you want about their motivations for every decision they make, but they are still nothing more than idle speculations without any special insight aside from your own biases.  I'll take the word of a BioWare developer over that of obstinate, disgruntled, disaffected, and not-necessarily-well-informed gamers.

Modifié par Pauravi, 22 octobre 2012 - 01:34 .

[Xilizhra]

Except that, even if Bioware were to do this... you'd just get to say very little about anything. That's how DA:O did it, by and large.

It doesn't matter. It's important for my own roleplaying.

You can speculate all you want about their motivations for every decision they make, but they are still nothing more than idle speculations without any special insight aside from your own biases. I'll take the word of a BioWare developer over that of obstinate, disgruntled, disaffected, and not-necessarily-well-informed gamers.

Do note that we don't need to worry about PR, which is more than can be said for them.

[nightscrawl]

Kroitz wrote...

As we have yet to see anything that is actually in the game, this forum seems a bit redundant.

Like Mr. Gaider getting all defensive.

This is rather off topic... but the DA2 forum was becoming littered with "What do you want for DA3 about this subject?" and "What kind of 'that thing' should be in DA3?" and so forth. It's good that there is a separate place for all of that now, and all relevant DA2 talk can stay in the DA2 forum and the rest of us who are done with it can continue to beat our dead horses about what should or should not be in DA3.

[Sir Caradoc]

Ofcourse it is dissapointing.

This is a rich fantasy game with various races and cultures and yet our character is forced to be human. I truly hoped that bioware would try aiming higher and get back to what roleplaying games are about. Is it that difficult to write a story where player character could also be a dwarf of an elf? Many rpgs have pulled that off.

I notice that many people here don't mind this decision at all. Actually many have stated in detail that they like that bioware has elimanted this irksome choise. I don't honestly know how to counter an argument like that. You actually prefer less choises in a roleplaying game. You don't mind that character creation has less options. I understand that you like more definied character, but I'd rather have more choise. This would force writes to be more creative too.

Well I'm not going to state silly comments like that DA3 is doomed, but clearly this is not a good sign.

[In Exile]

Xilizhra wrote...
It doesn't matter. It's important for my own roleplaying.

Oh, the fan-fic angle. Then RP that your character read books.

[Teddie Sage]

In Exile wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
It doesn't matter. It's important for my own roleplaying.

Oh, the fan-fic angle. Then RP that your character read books.

This made me spit my drink, thank you.

[Xilizhra]

In Exile wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
It doesn't matter. It's important for my own roleplaying.

Oh, the fan-fic angle. Then RP that your character read books.

Wait, what?

[In Exile]

Sir Caradoc wrote...
I notice that many people here don't mind this decision at all. Actually many have stated in detail that they like that bioware has elimanted this irksome choise. I don't honestly know how to counter an argument like that. You actually prefer less choises in a roleplaying game. You don't mind that character creation has less options. I understand that you like more definied character, but I'd rather have more choise. This would force writes to be more creative too.

I'd like more choices too! ... but I'd like them to be choices I care about.

So, for example, if someone only plays human protagonists, a set human protagonist is an absolute win because it means more design focus on areas where one cares about the choice.

Personally, while I continue to be dissapointed that we can't have a Kossith (or qunari, probably, since we're the inquisitor) character, I can't say I care about elves or dwarves.

[In Exile]

Xilizhra wrote...
Wait, what?

I can't relate to the "RP-exclusive" playstyle. By that, I mean that I don't relate to the idea that if it's in my head rather than on the screen, it meaningfully counts as content. I want the content to be reactive (see, basically, the Witcher 2's Act 2 variance).

If having a cultured PC who experiences the land different than the Andrastrian plebs is important to you, then a cultured, well-read PC can be a very strong gateway to that.

Edit:

To clarify, this won't work for me, because if in-game I can't show off my character is well-read, my character (in my eyes) can't be well-read. But you seem to not care about that.

Modifié par In Exile, 22 octobre 2012 - 01:45 .

[Xilizhra]

In Exile wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Wait, what?

I can't relate to the "RP-exclusive" playstyle. By that, I mean that I don't relate to the idea that if it's in my head rather than on the screen, it meaningfully counts as content. I want the content to be reactive (see, basically, the Witcher 2's Act 2 variance).

If having a cultured PC who experiences the land different than the Andrastrian plebs is important to you, then a cultured, well-read PC can be a very strong gateway to that.

That wasn't what I meant. I meant coming from a different cultural perspective. I was able to kind of do this in DA2 by interpreting that my Hawke followed the Imperial Chantry, but it wasn't my favorite solution.

[In Exile]

Xilizhra wrote...
That wasn't what I meant. I meant coming from a different cultural perspective. I was able to kind of do this in DA2 by interpreting that my Hawke followed the Imperial Chantry, but it wasn't my favorite solution.

Your PC converted to the QUN, and is now just being clever and secretly pretending to be an Andrastian. Or he's using a magical glamour to convince everyone else is human, and your background is just the convincing lie you've magicked up as an elf infiltrator in human lands.

Basically, you can rationalize away every single fact in the game if you want the perspective, and if you craft a good enough rationalization. This is why I care about reactivity.

But if you want a different cultural perspective ... there you have one.