3855 réponses à ce sujet

[Dutchess]

It makes me laugh that people see this as the potential for deeper character development and choice effects and other amazing things. The very same things have been said about DA2, and how much of that proved to be true? I have seen less choices than in DAO, and Hawke was not a deeper character than any Warden as far as I could see. So.... why? Why do people assume this restriction will result in more freedom elsewhere? When we have already seen this wasn't the case in the previous game? Except for the same old "DA2 was rushed" thing, I can't come up with a valid argument for that idea.

[Vandicus]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

Here is a poll that was taken three months ago and it shows the majority of voters wanted more race options and origin stories for DA3 than anything else. social.bioware.com/580526/polls/36775/

Is Bioware going to make an official statement as to why they are not going to do a more Dragon Age: Origins game which is a major request of its fans?  

First off, that poll is a from a non-representative sample of the Bioware fanbase and is additionaly subject to self-selection bias.

Secondly, the poll indicates that of the sample who took it, they preferred that particular option to any of the other options listed, it does not indicate preference to "anything else" as you claim.  

Lastly, it explicitly has a pro-Origins features slant, further skewing any results.

[labargegrrrl]

i just have a couple of questions before i walk away from this thread.

and i want to preface them by saying that they're serious points of curiosity, and i'm not asking just to prove a point or be insulting or anything like that. i know it would be easy to take them that way, because these sorts of threads tend to get volatile, but please know i seriously don't want them to.

they're directed to those of you who don't care about whether or not the pc is human b/c you play as human anyway...

first, would you feel the same way if you could only play a pc that was elf or a dwarf?

second, would you feel the same way if you were further limited by only getting to play as one gender as well?

[WhiteThunder]

@Renjility

It's because people are under the impression that this bloated rotting husk of an EA subsidiary is the same company that made the games they used to love.

(No offense to any BioWare employees, I know that you're doing the best you can with the hand you were dealt)

Modifié par WhiteThunder, 22 octobre 2012 - 05:20 .

[Fast Jimmy]

AntiChri5 wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

I really don't see racial choices as something that particularly matters.

Sure, i had playthroughs of Origins as each race but i wouldn't have had any less had i been restricted to human.

What matters to me is choosing my protagonists character and identity, not their biology.

Why is having pointy ears important? This isn't facetious flame-baiting, i genuinely want to know.

Is it about coming from a different culture? Because that isn't restricted to race.

Well... yeah, actually it is. 

Can you grow up in Orzammar as a human? Can you be a part of the Dalish clan all of your life and no be an elf? Humans have different cultures, too, of course. But many people that the most interesting cultures are the non-human (Kossith, Elven and Dwarven). For everyone one person clamouring to be an Orlesian, I could probably show you twenty that would rather be a City Elf again. 

Can they explore these cultures through NPCs and companions? Sure. Absolutely. We explored most of what we know about Antivan and Orlesian culture from Leliana and Zevran. But is it the same as playing that type of character yourself? I'd say its not. I may be outnumbered or wrong, but I'd still say, for me, its not.

The problem is that the Dalish and the Orzammarites never had to be elves or dwarves. Yes, at this point the culture is linked to the race but that does not mean the races have a lock on those cultural archtypes.

They could have had a human civilisation identical to what we got as the elven Dalish clans.

So, in the end, it has nothing to do with anything inherent to the race.

I'm confused... are you saying races shouldn't matter because Bioware could have made the game with only human races? 

If so... then that ship has sailed. There are four known races in Thedas, human being only one. To play a character from one of these cultures require that you be that race.

[AntiChri5]

WhiteThunder wrote...

@AntiChri5: but now they do have that association, empty rhetorical points notwithstanding. We are talking about race options in Dragon Age, not in any other game. In this game we are now limited to being the master race rather than being an outsider as some of us prefer. Much as I enjoy hypotheticals, it's a bit annoying to introduce them in a conversation about specific features in a specific game when they have no actual relation to the subject at hand.

They have every relation tp the subject at hand.

What i am trying to get at the core of is whether it is about race or culture. The topics are always titled "racial" choice but it has always seemed about culture to me. What i am seeing in this thread is only confirming that.

How much time playing as a Dwarf in Origins was spent exploring why they are cut off from the fade, How many conversations about dreams and the like? I can't remember it coming up much or being a big deal. And yet it (and height, i guess) is the only real difference between humans and dwarves.

You want an outsider perspective, personally i think a Chasind would be more of an outsider in Orlais then a Dalish Elf was in Ferelden. You can maintain that outsider perspective while playing a human.

The races just aren't different enough, physically and biologically, for it to be all that important to me, no matter how interesting the cultural differences are.

[Fast Jimmy]

labargegrrrl wrote...

i just have a couple of questions before i walk away from this thread.

and i want to preface them by saying that they're serious points of curiosity, and i'm not asking just to prove a point or be insulting or anything like that. i know it would be easy to take them that way, because these sorts of threads tend to get volatile, but please know i seriously don't want them to.

they're directed to those of you who don't care about whether or not the pc is human b/c you play as human anyway...

first, would you feel the same way if you could only play a pc that was elf or a dwarf?

second, would you feel the same way if you were further limited by only getting to play as one gender as well?

As a possibly ban worthy follow up, if that gender was stated to be male, would it be d!ckish of me to say "I always play a male anyway, so this doesn't bother me"?

[lil yonce]

Just chiming in to support DA3's human protagonist. If a human main character contributes most to the story, I think it's a good decision.

[Salaya]

I don't get the people whos says "I'm not interested in race selection; I'm only interested in who my character is".

Well, in a game like Dragon Age, culture and race determines who you are -in a very specific way that all we know-. By forcing the player to play as a human, a substantial part of what might you be or become is drastically erased. Even In Origins you had some parts in wich your race determined your dialogue (yeah, not so many as wished, but a lot more than... not a single one).

For me its simple; not including race selection is something like alarming news. Maybe I'm being naive, but I thought DA3 was going to get best parts of both games... and definetely, race selection was far better than the "hawke" thing.

I really hope, Bioware, that you sell the game to us sincerely. If you are going to delve deeper in the DA2 idea, go ahead and say it, but don't start saying things like you are mixing DAO and DA2. I don't want to feel as dissapointed as with DA2 (yes, you told us that major changes were coming, but also told us that the best from Origins was present too, wich, of course, I don't think you truly believed)

And yeah, I perfectly understand that this is only my opinion. People should focuss more on discussing the topic and writing interesting opinions (on both sides of the topic). It really tires see the discussion about "it's your opinion, not the majority!".

[LobselVith8]

renjility wrote...

It makes me laugh that people see this as the potential for deeper character development and choice effects and other amazing things. The very same things have been said about DA2, and how much of that proved to be true? I have seen less choices than in DAO, and Hawke was not a deeper character than any Warden as far as I could see. So.... why? Why do people assume this restriction will result in more freedom elsewhere? When we have already seen this wasn't the case in the previous game? Except for the same old "DA2 was rushed" thing, I can't come up with a valid argument for that idea.

I really didn't connect with Hawke; there was quite a few aspects to the character that were outside my control, and I lamented the lack of freedoms that I had with my Warden. I think the paraphrasing and the auto-lines for the "human only" Inquisitor will make some people face the same problems that they did with Hawke, especially since it leads to a disconnect between what was intended by the player, and what is actually said by the protagonist.

[Challseus]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

Here is a poll that was taken three months ago and it shows the majority of voters wanted more race options and origin stories for DA3 than anything else. social.bioware.com/580526/polls/36775/

Is Bioware going to make an official statement as to why they are not going to do a more Dragon Age: Origins game which is a major request of its fans?  

Good lord, I hope Bioware doesn't take the results of a poll of 150 people on this forum. Plus, the customer isn't always right, especially when they don't know the internals of how the business is being run...

If they say they don't have the resources to do it, then dammit, I'll take them at their word for it. Better for them to make the overall game better, than to spend more time trying to make everyone happy. And if they said the majority of people who played the game played as a human, then, well, that says it all...

[AntiChri5]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

I really don't see racial choices as something that particularly matters.

Sure, i had playthroughs of Origins as each race but i wouldn't have had any less had i been restricted to human.

What matters to me is choosing my protagonists character and identity, not their biology.

Why is having pointy ears important? This isn't facetious flame-baiting, i genuinely want to know.

Is it about coming from a different culture? Because that isn't restricted to race.

Well... yeah, actually it is. 

Can you grow up in Orzammar as a human? Can you be a part of the Dalish clan all of your life and no be an elf? Humans have different cultures, too, of course. But many people that the most interesting cultures are the non-human (Kossith, Elven and Dwarven). For everyone one person clamouring to be an Orlesian, I could probably show you twenty that would rather be a City Elf again. 

Can they explore these cultures through NPCs and companions? Sure. Absolutely. We explored most of what we know about Antivan and Orlesian culture from Leliana and Zevran. But is it the same as playing that type of character yourself? I'd say its not. I may be outnumbered or wrong, but I'd still say, for me, its not.

The problem is that the Dalish and the Orzammarites never had to be elves or dwarves. Yes, at this point the culture is linked to the race but that does not mean the races have a lock on those cultural archtypes.

They could have had a human civilisation identical to what we got as the elven Dalish clans.

So, in the end, it has nothing to do with anything inherent to the race.

I'm confused... are you saying races shouldn't matter because Bioware could have made the game with only human races? 

If so... then that ship has sailed. There are four known races in Thedas, human being only one. To play a character from one of these cultures require that you be that race.

What i am saying is that it is more about culture then race.

Race is just a way to get at a culture.

The Dwarf origins aren't focused on being a dwarf, they are focused on being an Orzammarite of low or high caste (depending on which you choose). Race is just a means to an end.

[ValintineL]

Sounds fine to me. I only ever play a human Templar anyway.

[mat21]

I can see why the devs see the need to go down the single race line as the vague plot image I'm getting for inquisition at the moment makes no sense for a non human character. One of the best things about the setting is that all of the races have been made very politiaclly and culturally distinct but this does make it hard to come up with good stories which embrace the PC potentially being any of them.

I do however think that it would be a shame if we only ever got to play as a Human in dragon age games from now on as there are loads of good plots and lore which revolve around the other races it would be good to explore at some point. For just a few examples you could have a games heavily based around the elvish lore and the recovery towards there past glories, one based around the dwarfs with the primorial dwarfs and darkspawn, or even one based around the kossith during which we find out why they came to thedas for example.

So I'm ok single race games as they offer more chance to have in depths storytelling which makes sense but being a human all the time would not be good. I can probably cope with it for two games though.

As a question how would other people feel about a single race game in which the race was not Human.

[Barquiel]

Not a real deal breaker (since I hate the race redesigns), but I am slightly disappointed (the City Elf origin was my favourite background story in DA:O).

[wiskeylab]

well tbh if it transpires we only get to play as a human in #3 i'm not buying it. i preffered origins because you could find out first hand wht other races think of you. so far by what i've heard it's gonna be a prettied up #2. however i am reserving my judgement until the official content of the game is made public. if #2 is indicative of #3 all i can say is goodbye bioware it was nice knowing you.

[Sylvius the Mad]

mopotter wrote...

Also have no problem with this. As long as I have gender choice and can change how my characters look, I'm ok.

First they came for the elves, and I said nothing, because I did not play elves...

This is literally the response from some people.  I'm amazed no one sees it.

There are better defenses of the human-only protagonist than this.

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 22 octobre 2012 - 05:30 .

[AntiChri5]

labargegrrrl wrote...
they're directed to those of you who don't care about whether or not the pc is human b/c you play as human anyway...

first, would you feel the same way if you could only play a pc that was elf or a dwarf?

second, would you feel the same way if you were further limited by only getting to play as one gender as well?

I have no problem playing being locked into an elf, so long as they made it matter. My only problem playing a dwarf is the class restriction. If they were to make a game entirely about being an Elf or a Dwarf, i would be very interested.

I would actually have a problem on a gender lock, but not a big one.

[Boh22]

Why?

[Emzamination]

Salaya wrote...

I don't get the people whos says "I'm not interested in race selection; I'm only interested in who my character is".

Well, in a game like Dragon Age, culture and race determines who you are -in a very specific way that all we know-. By forcing the player to play as a human, a substantial part of what might you be or become is drastically erased. Even In Origins you had some parts in wich your race determined your dialogue (yeah, not so many as wished, but a lot more than... not a single one).

For me its simple; not including race selection is something like alarming news. Maybe I'm being naive, but I thought DA3 was going to get best parts of both games... and definetely, race selection was far better than the "hawke" thing.

I really hope, Bioware, that you sell the game to us sincerely. If you are going to delve deeper in the DA2 idea, go ahead and say it, but don't start saying things like you are mixing DAO and DA2. I don't want to feel as dissapointed as with DA2 (yes, you told us that major changes were coming, but also told us that the best from Origins was present too, wich, of course, I don't think you truly believed)

And yeah, I perfectly understand that this is only my opinion. People should focuss more on discussing the topic and writing interesting opinions (on both sides of the topic). It really tires see the discussion about "it's your opinion, not the majority!".

Nonsense -- Coin and social status determine who the character is, because without either one of those things you're nobody -- Another particle of Dust in Dark town.

[JWvonGoethe]

The Edmonton Expo took place a few days ago. During the Expo, Bioware released the first concrete information regarding their much anticipated, recently announced Dragon Age 3: Inquisition game. Since then there have been three giant threads on the BSN all relating to one single complaint about a new piece of info on the game - that the player will be forced to play as a human. These three threads have totalled (so far) 76 pages between them, two of the threads have been closed, and a Bioware developer has had to start a third thread himself in an attempt to keep the peace.

It's hardly a good start is it? And that is coming from someone who is happy about having a human PC, and who is generally very excited and (cautiously) optimistic about the game.

Modifié par JWvonGoethe, 22 octobre 2012 - 05:37 .

[Vandicus]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

mopotter wrote...

Also have no problem with this. As long as I have gender choice and can change how my characters look, I'm ok.

First they came for the elves, and I said nothing, because I did not play elves...

This is literally the response from some people.  I'm amazed no one sees it.

There are better defenses of the human-only protagonist than this.

Bit melodramatic to compare this to carting away minorities now isn't it?

Purchase of a game is optional. If one particular feature is a dealbreaker for you, don't buy it, there are plenty of other games out on the market, not like this is the USSR and we're limited to buying one particular game.

Its easy to understand where restrictions can be necessary for writing a particular story. Its also easy to understand that people won't be bothered by features that they don't care about not being added. Do you raise the hue and cry about every possible feature that people could care about in a game?

Modifié par Vandicus, 22 octobre 2012 - 05:36 .

[AllThatJazz]

renjility wrote...

It makes me laugh that people see this as the potential for deeper character development and choice effects and other amazing things. The very same things have been said about DA2, and how much of that proved to be true? I have seen less choices than in DAO, and Hawke was not a deeper character than any Warden as far as I could see. So.... why? Why do people assume this restriction will result in more freedom elsewhere? When we have already seen this wasn't the case in the previous game? Except for the same old "DA2 was rushed" thing, I can't come up with a valid argument for that idea.

Hah, I guess I'm one of these people that you are directing your statement at Why would it make you laugh? There is the potential for these things. Whether or not this potential is realised is another matter entirely. Recognising the potential in a particular feature, expressing a desire to see it fulfilled, and suggesting ways in which it might be possible to achieve it is perfectly legitimate and constructive, regardless of any perceived shortcomings in a previous game. Plus, I enjoy making the best of situations. 

Also, while it is true that restricting racial options does not necessarily result in more freedom elsewhere, there are myriad examples of fantastic CRPGs which illustrate either that a) a lack of racial options does not necessarily mean less freedom either and that a more pre-defined protagonist in some respects can even lead to greater depth and more freedom  (thinking of PS:T here, mostly). 

[dheer]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

mopotter wrote...
Also have no problem with this. As long as I have gender choice and can change how my characters look, I'm ok.

First they came for the elves, and I said nothing, because I did not play elves...

Indeed. It's the same old conservative argument "I got mine jack!" That is, until they don't. Then it's time to scream bloody murder.

Can you imagine the outcry if they announced that you couldn't play a male or hell, a female in the next game because it the team didn't think it was the best use of resources? Or you couldn't play a human. Everyone will be forced to play a male dwarf.

[Allan Schumacher]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

Here is a poll that was taken three months ago and it shows the majority of voters wanted more race options and origin stories for DA3 than anything else. social.bioware.com/580526/polls/36775/

Is Bioware going to make an official statement as to why they are not going to do a more Dragon Age: Origins game which is a major request of its fans?  

Without looking at said poll:

Did you properly select a random sample of people to participate in the poll?  Is the poll created in a non-biased way?  How are the questions asked?


For those that feel this is a necessary component to "making the character theirs" I'm curious what peoples thoughts are to games like the Ultima ones, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Knights of the Old Republic, or even Planescape: Torment.