3855 réponses à ce sujet

[Sylvius the Mad]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Or is it just Confirmation bias?

Humanity's greatest adversary.

[Emzamination]

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

When they get rid of gender choices eventually, I'll just take some of these pro-human responses and put them up.

Bioware's never getting rid of gender choices...

You never know. The future is full of mysteries.

Edit: Oh and what Fast Jimmy said.

Never going to happen.

Bioware said in a GI issue pre-me3 that they would never make a game focused solely on a heterosexual caucasian male because there were far too many of those out there.

Modifié par Emzamination, 22 octobre 2012 - 06:09 .

[Palipride47]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

When they get rid of gender choices eventually, I'll just take some of these pro-human responses and put them up.

Bioware's never getting rid of gender choices...

I stood in line at Gamestop for the midnight release of DA2 who said the same thing about racial choices for DA2. That I was lying, making things up... that there is no way they would remove racial origins, the most touted and loved feature of the game. 

I really wish I could run into some of those people I stood in line with. I was disappointed with DA2, but I at least knew enough about it to have expectations lowered. Those guys... man, I feel like those guys might be in therapy or something.

OH GOD, POOR THING!!!!  
I cried when I saw what they did to my beloved Anders, they are surely in therapy, hugging their chests, whispering about "race options" and "new elves" 

And if they got rid of females as well (I would hope not), murder knife. EVERYTHING. 

Modifié par Palipride47, 22 octobre 2012 - 06:11 .

[Fast Jimmy]

Emzamination wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

When they get rid of gender choices eventually, I'll just take some of these pro-human responses and put them up.

Bioware's never getting rid of gender choices...

I stood in line at Gamestop for the midnight release of DA2 who said the same thing about racial choices for DA2. That I was lying, making things up... that there is no way they would remove racial origins, the most touted and loved feature of the game. 

I really wish I could run into some of those people I stood in line with. I was disappointed with DA2, but I at least knew enough about it to have expectations lowered. Those guys... man, I feel like those guys might be in therapy or something.

Yes, but one really can't equate the removal of race options to the removal of genders.Genders aren't as fluid a choice as race or sexuality.They are mandatory for a Rpg because both women and men contribute to these franchises equally.

On the contrary, having two genders means that a voiced protagonist budget is immediately doubled. What if the reason the Wticher 2 was able to have totally different second acts is due to the fact that they only have to voice one gender? Female characters would be the minority (just like non-humans are) and, if they wanted to increase their budget to allow more choice and content, they could scrap the females altogether. 

All LIs are bi now anyway, so you can just close your eyes and head canon you are female, just like the elf and dwarf lovers. After all, the story of Thedas is not about one person, class, race or gender. Its about the world of Thedas.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 22 octobre 2012 - 06:12 .

[Ianamus]

Hmm well when I saw the title of this thread my heart sank a bit. I'm not massively bothered by not being able to play a non-human, but had we been able to play an elf in the next game I would have preferred that to being a human.

So yeah, it's not exactly a huge blow, but I'm a little disappointed. Then again I had no real problem playing as a human in DA2, and as long as we get a decent character creator with a lot of face options I don't mind too much.

[Allan Schumacher]

Not sure what you mean, then again I have not read the entire thread so do not know who you are refering to. But it does limit 'player' freedom and choice, that is a factual statement. It also limits the potential impact of choices in the sense you are removing additional possiblities that can lead to additional and impactive choices.

I'm referring to people that are equating our decision to go with a human protagonist with real life reduction of personal freedoms and oppression in history.

They do this by linking quotes that reference real life personal liberty, and if they wish to champion themselves on a video game forum about options/restrictions in a video game in the same way that actual people attempt to stand up for human rights in the real world, I'd encourage those people to actually reflect on what it is they're doing before making a disrespectful reference to those that actually go out and have fought for their freedom to come onto this forum and **** us out.

Frankly, it's a sentiment fueled by emotion and at some point I'm going to be a party pooper and remind people that they're still just talking about a video game.

[Xewaka]

John Epler wrote...
And yes, I know that more people than are represented by that poll want multiple races. It's simply not something we're going to be doing for this game, for a multitude of reasons.

Out of curiosity, can any of those reasons be made available to the public at this point? If so, what are they? Or is it another "wait and see" situation?

Modifié par Xewaka, 22 octobre 2012 - 06:12 .

[Palipride47]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Not sure what you mean, then again I have not read the entire thread so do not know who you are refering to. But it does limit 'player' freedom and choice, that is a factual statement. It also limits the potential impact of choices in the sense you are removing additional possiblities that can lead to additional and impactive choices.

I'm referring to people that are equating our decision to go with a human protagonist with real life reduction of personal freedoms and oppression in history.

They do this by linking quotes that reference real life personal liberty, and if they wish to champion themselves on a video game forum about options/restrictions in a video game in the same way that actual people attempt to stand up for human rights in the real world, I'd encourage those people to actually reflect on what it is they're doing before making a disrespectful reference to those that actually go out and have fought for their freedom to come onto this forum and **** us out.

Frankly, it's a sentiment fueled by emotion and at some point I'm going to be a party pooper and remind people that they're still just talking about a video game.

I was about to debate you, but now I've read what I think you are referring to, and yeah, guys, its a game. Equating loss of race options to a poem about the Jewish people and the Labor Union supporters is kinda, in poor taste, to say the least. (even in jest, especially on the interwebz) <_<

Modifié par Palipride47, 22 octobre 2012 - 06:14 .

[zyntifox]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Jerrybnsn wrote...

This was three months ago considering a lot of the original fans haven't showed up here in over a year, these are your diehard, willing to give Bioware second and third chances, or even those that prefered DA2 over Origins.  I think that in itself it telling.

Or is it just Confirmation bias?

Do you honestly believe that that poll is created in such a way that people are not, in any way, biased to pick a particular response?

Never mind that motivations for said choice (The other choices suck... or even "eh this one probably give me more content") can't be quantified either.


You'd be better served going through the "Top 5 things..." thread and seeing how many times it comes up.  But you're still going to run into sample bias that prevents the data from being fully considered.

Pay me, or the consulting firm i currently work at, $250 an hour and i can statistically prove that Carver is the most loveable character in the DA universe.

[Dragoonlordz]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Not sure what you mean, then again I have not read the entire thread so do not know who you are refering to. But it does limit 'player' freedom and choice, that is a factual statement. It also limits the potential impact of choices in the sense you are removing additional possiblities that can lead to additional and impactive choices.

I'm referring to people that are equating our decision to go with a human protagonist with real life reduction of personal freedoms and oppression in history.

They do this by linking quotes that reference real life personal liberty, and if they wish to champion themselves on a video game forum about options/restrictions in a video game in the same way that actual people attempt to stand up for human rights in the real world, I'd encourage those people to actually reflect on what it is they're doing before making a disrespectful reference to those that actually go out and have fought for their freedom to come onto this forum and **** us out.

Frankly, it's a sentiment fueled by emotion and at some point I'm going to be a party pooper and remind people that they're still just talking about a video game.

Well yeh, seems bit silly for those who do that. I was late to the party so only just noticed this thread not long ago. I guess I missed people doing that. My comment was just that restricts player freedom and choices, can limit the impact and freedom of the character but seems bit childish to me to try to turn it into some silly personal oppression or rights issues by whoever is doing such.

[Fast Jimmy]

Emzamination wrote...

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

When they get rid of gender choices eventually, I'll just take some of these pro-human responses and put them up.

Bioware's never getting rid of gender choices...

You never know. The future is full of mysteries.

Edit: Oh and what Fast Jimmy said.

Never going to happen.

Bioware said in a GI issue pre-me3 that they would never make a game focused solely on a heterosexual caucasian male because there were far too many of those out there.

Well... if it was said in an interview with a magazine, then I take it all back! That's a bond written in stone, unbreakable by the heavens and earth.

Besides, they could make the character a canonly gay or celibate male (no females) and this would still be true.

Would it be a good idea? No. HELL no. It would be pantamount to the Hidenberg on the forums, in women's groups, the ACLU... I mean, honestly... this would have real-world fallout and ramifications. I don't doubt it in the least. 

But the same argument being made for removing racial choices can be plastered onto gender just as easily (if not moreso, since they could theroetically have the same VO with all races, if you wanted to suspend disbelief a little). Not to say that's right, wrong or worth a hill of beans in a bike shop, but there it is.

[Fast Jimmy]

Palipride47 wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Not sure what you mean, then again I have not read the entire thread so do not know who you are refering to. But it does limit 'player' freedom and choice, that is a factual statement. It also limits the potential impact of choices in the sense you are removing additional possiblities that can lead to additional and impactive choices.

I'm referring to people that are equating our decision to go with a human protagonist with real life reduction of personal freedoms and oppression in history.

They do this by linking quotes that reference real life personal liberty, and if they wish to champion themselves on a video game forum about options/restrictions in a video game in the same way that actual people attempt to stand up for human rights in the real world, I'd encourage those people to actually reflect on what it is they're doing before making a disrespectful reference to those that actually go out and have fought for their freedom to come onto this forum and **** us out.

Frankly, it's a sentiment fueled by emotion and at some point I'm going to be a party pooper and remind people that they're still just talking about a video game.

I was about to debate you, but now I've read what I think you are referring to, and yeah, guys, its a game. Equating loss of race options to a poem about the Jewish people and the Labor Union supporters is kinda, in poor taste, to say the least. (even in jest, especially on the interwebz) <_<

To be fair, my quote was from a fictional source, using a fictional conflict between humans and non-humans. And it was more for the lulz than anything else.

[IST]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

I love it. Given that Bioware has only a given amount of time and a given amount of resources, I would prefer to have it all spent on the main story, rather than chop back the main story to make multiple races, two of which I'll never play anyways.

Content I'll play >>>>> Content I'll never play.

:happy:

[Emzamination]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

When they get rid of gender choices eventually, I'll just take some of these pro-human responses and put them up.

Bioware's never getting rid of gender choices...

I stood in line at Gamestop for the midnight release of DA2 who said the same thing about racial choices for DA2. That I was lying, making things up... that there is no way they would remove racial origins, the most touted and loved feature of the game. 

I really wish I could run into some of those people I stood in line with. I was disappointed with DA2, but I at least knew enough about it to have expectations lowered. Those guys... man, I feel like those guys might be in therapy or something.

Yes, but one really can't equate the removal of race options to the removal of genders.Genders aren't as fluid a choice as race or sexuality.They are mandatory for a Rpg because both women and men contribute to these franchises equally.

On the contrary, having two genders means that a voiced protagonist budget is immediately doubled. What if the reason the Wticher 2 was able to have totally different second acts is due to the fact that they only have to voice one gender? Female characters would be the minority (just like non-humans are) and, if they wanted to increase their budget to allow more choice and content, they could scrap the females altogether. 

All LIs are bi now anyway, so you can just close your eyes and head canon you are female, just like the elf and dwarf lovers. After all, the story of Thedas is not about one person, class, race or gender. Its about the world of Thedas.

Why are women the minority? Nvm don't answer that.I wouldn't mind in that particular case because the witcher was most definitely not made for women.It portrays women in outrageous stigmas...but that's an argument for another time <_<

Regarding anyother non-chauvinistic Rpg, equallity must always come first before content.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Emzamination wrote...

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

When they get rid of gender choices eventually, I'll just take some of these pro-human responses and put them up.

Bioware's never getting rid of gender choices...

You never know. The future is full of mysteries.

Edit: Oh and what Fast Jimmy said.

Never going to happen.

Bioware said in a GI issue pre-me3 that they would never make a game focused solely on a heterosexual caucasian male because there were far too many of those out there.

They also said player choices comes first when making ME2. Didn't last when ME3 came around.

[labargegrrrl]

Cstaf wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Jerrybnsn wrote...

This was three months ago considering a lot of the original fans haven't showed up here in over a year, these are your diehard, willing to give Bioware second and third chances, or even those that prefered DA2 over Origins.  I think that in itself it telling.

Or is it just Confirmation bias?

Do you honestly believe that that poll is created in such a way that people are not, in any way, biased to pick a particular response?

Never mind that motivations for said choice (The other choices suck... or even "eh this one probably give me more content") can't be quantified either.


You'd be better served going through the "Top 5 things..." thread and seeing how many times it comes up.  But you're still going to run into sample bias that prevents the data from being fully considered.

Pay me, or the consulting firm i currently work at, $250 an hour and i can statistically prove that Carver is the most loveable character in the DA universe.

you don't HAVE to prove that.  it's an undeniable fact.

[Scott Sion]

So is it a fact that there won't be other playable races in DA3 or is Mr.Schumacher trolling again?

[Emzamination]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

When they get rid of gender choices eventually, I'll just take some of these pro-human responses and put them up.

Bioware's never getting rid of gender choices...

You never know. The future is full of mysteries.

Edit: Oh and what Fast Jimmy said.

Never going to happen.

Bioware said in a GI issue pre-me3 that they would never make a game focused solely on a heterosexual caucasian male because there were far too many of those out there.

Well... if it was said in an interview with a magazine, then I take it all back! That's a bond written in stone, unbreakable by the heavens and earth.

Besides, they could make the character a canonly gay or celibate male (no females) and this would still be true.

Would it be a good idea? No. HELL no. It would be pantamount to the Hidenberg on the forums, in women's groups, the ACLU... I mean, honestly... this would have real-world fallout and ramifications. I don't doubt it in the least. 

But the same argument being made for removing racial choices can be plastered onto gender just as easily (if not moreso, since they could theroetically have the same VO with all races, if you wanted to suspend disbelief a little). Not to say that's right, wrong or worth a hill of beans in a bike shop, but there it is.

They could also make the character Bi and solely making a male would go against the sole male part of said bond

[JWvonGoethe]

Cstaf wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Jerrybnsn wrote...
This was three months ago considering a lot of the original fans haven't showed up here in over a year, these are your diehard, willing to give Bioware second and third chances, or even those that prefered DA2 over Origins.  I think that in itself it telling.

Or is it just Confirmation bias?

Do you honestly believe that that poll is created in such a way that people are not, in any way, biased to pick a particular response?

Never mind that motivations for said choice (The other choices suck... or even "eh this one probably give me more content") can't be quantified either.


You'd be better served going through the "Top 5 things..." thread and seeing how many times it comes up.  But you're still going to run into sample bias that prevents the data from being fully considered.

Pay me, or the consulting firm i currently work at, $250 an hour and i can statistically prove that Carver is the most loveable character in the DA universe.

Excellent point. "There are lies, d@mned lies, and statistics." - Mark Twain.

Modifié par JWvonGoethe, 22 octobre 2012 - 06:25 .

[JWvonGoethe]

...or possibly Disraeli said it.

[Emzamination]

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

When they get rid of gender choices eventually, I'll just take some of these pro-human responses and put them up.

Bioware's never getting rid of gender choices...

You never know. The future is full of mysteries.

Edit: Oh and what Fast Jimmy said.

Never going to happen.

Bioware said in a GI issue pre-me3 that they would never make a game focused solely on a heterosexual caucasian male because there were far too many of those out there.

They also said player choices comes first when making ME2. Didn't last when ME3 came around.

How you are equating player choices to gender equality is beyond my scope of comprehension.Those two factors are on polar opposite ends of the spectrum.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Emzamination wrote...

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

When they get rid of gender choices eventually, I'll just take some of these pro-human responses and put them up.

Bioware's never getting rid of gender choices...

You never know. The future is full of mysteries.

Edit: Oh and what Fast Jimmy said.

Never going to happen.

Bioware said in a GI issue pre-me3 that they would never make a game focused solely on a heterosexual caucasian male because there were far too many of those out there.

They also said player choices comes first when making ME2. Didn't last when ME3 came around.

How you are equating player choices to gender equality is beyond my scope of comprehension.Those two factors are on polar opposite ends of the spectrum.

Because picking your gender in a game is a ..... wait for it....... a choice! Just like picking your race in a game is a.... wait for it.... a choice!

[Fast Jimmy]

Emzamination wrote...

Why are women the minority? Nvm don't answer that.I wouldn't mind in that particular case because the witcher was most definitely not made for women.It portrays women in outrageous stigmas...but that's an argument for another time <_<

Regarding anyother non-chauvinistic Rpg, equallity must always come first before content.

The women players aren't neccessarily a minority... but women characters are. If the majority was determining how Origins metric data said it happened, it was a male Human Noble as the most chosen character. And, based on likely statistics, I'd say the majority of those male human nobles played a straight character. And, given the lack of really defining ethnic traits outside of white and really tan, chances are he was caucassian.

So if people are using "the majority of players play humans anyway" as a reason why featuring a human only PC is a good idea, then I'd say it would be a good idea for them to have a human caucasian male with heterosexual preferences and parents who are rich. It sure would make it easier and cheaper to make a game.


Please note: the above comments do not represent the position of Fast Jimmy, his Real Life counterpart, and/or his dog and do not necessarily represent the views of anyone on the BSN, or the firms or organizations with which such members are associated.  

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 22 octobre 2012 - 06:34 .

[Emzamination]

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

How you are equating player choices to gender equality is beyond my scope of comprehension.Those two factors are on polar opposite ends of the spectrum.

Because picking your gender in a game is a ..... wait for it....... a choice! Just like picking your race in a game is a.... wait for it.... a choice!

Real life genders > Fantasy races.