3855 réponses à ce sujet

[Hexley UK]

Seems to me that all this discussion is entirely pointless as they are hellbent on making DA 2.5 for better or for worse.

[Vandicus]

Nerevar-as wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Nerevar-as wrote...

Outside of how s/he looks, I don´t see much difference between Geralt and Hawke. They come with a set personality, and you can choose some variation in how they behave, and that´s it.

Geralt has a set past, relationship with characters and generally pessimistic point of view of the world. When playing The Witcher 2, you're influencing Geralt's thought process but it's still his at the very core, as every decision fits into Sapkowski's character--so your description for Geralt works.

However, Hawke's past is about as developed as the Warden, allowing the player influence over how Hawke responds to scenarios and over his/her personality. The only difference between the Warden and Hawke is the voice acting and the "Origin" stays relevant, rather than being dismissed for the Warden storyline. Was Hawke raised as a devout Andrastian? Was he raised to be anti-Chantry? Did he just not care? All head-canon which cannot exist in The Witcher.

The Origin wasn´t dismissed. At least I didn´t play my City Elf as my Human Noble. It should have played a bigger part in interactions with other characters, but the answer was to expand the feature not send it to make company to the Mako. And Hawke´s origin means nothing, has as little bearing in the story as any GW´s did.. Not even being a mage means anything, in one of the bigger gameplay-story segregation I´ve ever seen. (And unless you´ve read the books, Geralt is a blank slate too, you know little to nothing of how he thought, and can turn him into a genocidal bastard.)

Did you skip Act I and II and just play Act III or something? 

The story practically revolves around the world of Hawke and his family. His background is an essential premise to his plot and station in the world during all of the acts.

[Gileadan]

A human protagonist is pretty much what I expected and I'm fine with it. And selectable but not playable backgrounds worked well enough for Mass Effect, and in my opinion are an improvement over Dragon Age 2.

Can't see any other race making sense as an inquisitor anyway.

[Rafficus III]

I'm cool with this. I always play human anyways, so it's a pleasant return. Honestly, I'm just excited for more Dragon Age; although, I did see the backlash coming a mile away should there not be other optional races. Can't wait though, and good luck with the development, Bioware!

[Morroian]

Monica83 wrote...

I suggest to ask you in a dictionary what the word sequel is...

So you're not going to buy the game yet you're going to stick around here and continue the same old arguements that have been going on since before DA2 was released. Why bother?

[Shadow Fox]

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

Pseudocognition wrote...

Monica83 wrote...

Another time forced to be human?....

I cannot wrap my head around this attitude. Because they did Origins once is not some kind of obligation for them to do it again. Precedent is not a guarantee. And by virtue of "Origins" being a subtitle, implying it's a gimmick unique to that game, no promise was made to carry the gimmick over to future titles. Also, it's not like they're sitting on a pile of fully fleshed out protagonists of different races and only letting you play one of them out of spite. You're not being coerced to pick one option out of many.

This comment isn't directed at you specifically, many people have the same opinion and they all baffle me.

Because asking a sequel to improve, and not remove, the thing that made the Dragon Age series so great and fun for some people is too much to ask... right?

Fixed

Modifié par Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke, 22 octobre 2012 - 09:45 .

[Nerevar-as]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

I'd argue it's more that alot of people expect a game's sequel to expand on the options the previous one offered not cut them out DA2 failed to do this for those people thus they did not enjoy it.

The point of emphasizing the concept of loss aversion is to say that people are more upset by something lost (racial choice) than they are pleased by anything gained (narrative relevance). 

As to how well DA3 will do with the latter is anyone's guess.

It will probably help if this time around there´s such a thing. Hawke apported no narrative advantages over the GW. Although that has more to do with the overall bad writing of the game than the concept itself, I also don´t see how varied origins have less narrative focus unless they are not properly implemented. VO brings a more cinematic experience, true, but above all I want to play a game, not watching it, and experience different POVs of view is more important to me than camera angles and conversation flow.

And please, don´t have tirades of autodialogue and forced emotions like ME3 did.

[The Elder King]

Monica83 wrote...



If they wanted origin fan back this is for sure the wrong manner to have them... Cut features and continue with lack of content is the wrong way....

And again this will to bring back fan is just... chat...but i never expected something different...

I'm an origin fan and not a  DA2 fan, and yet the lack of the race option will not influence my decision of buying the game (which at this point I still don't know) because while I think race option is a great feature and I wanted it, I already knew it wouldn't be back months ago. I made up my mind that Bioware will not give us race options if the near future.
I'm not suggesting that you should do the same (since I have no right to do so), but you should know that your opinion doesnt rapresent all Origins fans.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

The point of emphasizing the concept of loss aversion is to say that people are more upset by something lost (racial choice) than they are pleased by anything gained (narrative relevance). 

We already had narrative relevance within the emergent narrative.

[Dragoonlordz]

Pseudocognition wrote...

Monica83 wrote...

Another time forced to be human?....

I cannot wrap my head around this attitude. Because they did Origins once is not some kind of obligation for them to do it again. Precedent is not a guarantee. And by virtue of "Origins" being a subtitle, implying it's a gimmick unique to that game, no promise was made to carry the gimmick over to future titles. Also, it's not like they're sitting on a pile of fully fleshed out protagonists of different races and only letting you play one of them out of spite. You're not being coerced to pick one option out of many.

This comment isn't directed at you specifically, many people have the same opinion and they all baffle me.

They had an opportunity to do something great and ditched it in favor of something that might be just good as far as I am concerned. It is the potential for improving what they did in Origins with race selection they threw away in favor of more Mass Effect cloning (yet again). It is clearly shown in every game that there is a vast difference between how the different races are treated and react to each other in the DA universe and this could of led to a much better implementation, impact and ability to roleplay than a single race which one of the dominant ones in Thedas that has been played multiple times already could possibly be.

It's like the Mako from ME and planet exploration, same problem here that instead of improving what they had... They picked the cheaper due to VA and easier due to writing option by no race selection. For the planet exploration example the ideal for me would of been improving the planets you explore, they ditched that in favor of that annoying as hell scanning (the cheaper and easier option) and for this topic it is instead of improving the impact of race selection (which had the potential to have greater impact than a single race with different backgrounds could have), they ditch it in favor of one race and human yet again because of the cheaper use of less VA and easier to write option (imho).

I think the only reason they even say will have background selection is because even they know how bad it will be for them reaction wise if didn't even bother with that and just pulled another Hawke on the fans. Hawke is despised by many people for many reasons but the one reason you will hear more than any other on here is Hawke feeling like Bioware's character and not the players, the illusion of being the players is for many destroyed by the reality of how little impact and choice given to the player on who he or she is and not only what he or she can do plot wise.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 22 octobre 2012 - 09:52 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

But you would also admit this is - to you - not a human-protagonist issue, but a paraphrase/cinematics issue, yes?  In the sense that if Hawke's racial choice was open, but the cinematic presentation and paraphrased dialogue existed you'd be saying the same thing now.

If there were well-established racial personality traits by which the writers consistently abided, then race selection would offer at least some control, but your point is sound.  Hawke's personality wasn't fixed (though I'm not convinced Geralt's personality was fixed either).

[2leggywillow]

Monica83 wrote...

Another time forced to be human?....

Yes, this is the perfect title for my otherkin-themed emo pop album dropping next month.

[Tarathelion]

Monica83 wrote...

Pseudocognition wrote...

Monica83 wrote...

Another time forced to be human?....

I cannot wrap my head around this attitude. Because they did Origins once is not some kind of obligation for them to do it again. Precedent is not a guarantee. And by virtue of "Origins" being a subtitle, implying it's a gimmick unique to that game, no promise was made to carry the gimmick over to future titles. Also, it's not like they're sitting on a pile of fully fleshed out protagonists of different races and only letting you play one of them out of spite. You're not being coerced to pick one option out of many.

This comment isn't directed at you specifically, many people have the same opinion and they all baffle me.

Its supposed to be a "sequel" a sequel should have all the feature of the pervious games improved and new one added... Dragon age 2 was cut in all the sides.. If Dragon age 3 will have only human protagonist will be another lack since da2...
If they wanted origin fan back this is for sure the wrong manner to have them... Cut features and continue with lack of content is the wrong way....

And again this will to bring back fan is just... chat...but i never expected something different...

Well, ponder this. I had a great time playing DA:O. I played as a human mage. I didn't replay it as i don't usually do it. If DA:O didn't have an option to pick dwarf or elf as a protagonist i wouldn't have mattered for me at all. The experience for would be exacly the same. For me picking Hawke as a protagonist wasn't a bad choice ar all. I didn't see it as a step back. People have preferences, you have your opinion, i have mine. So don't try to speak for all of us. 

I wouldn't call dragon age 2 a sequel to first one. Just a new game telling different story with different characters in different part of the world. I does not have to be exacly the same

[kwillag]

I for one like racial choice, I have played every race except human in Skyrim, and was pleased when SW:TOR brought race choice to that game universe. Now that's not to say I don't like single race stories like the KOTORs as I am a SW fan, but to make a game with racial choice then to strip it away for any sequels is not moving forward. I didn't play DA2 because of this, and the framed narrative and lack of choices actually mattering also were a step backward. Now if DA3 does have a great story, an evolving world that actually changes as you do things, tactical combat and realistic finishing moves from DA:O, it would then be a step forward in the right direction. My hopes would then turn to DA4 returning the origins and new races to choose from as well as the old.

[Morroian]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

I think the only reason they even say will have background selection is because even they know how bad it will be for them reaction wise if didn't even bother with that and just pulled another Hawke on the fans. Hawke is despised by many people for many reasons but the one reason you will hear more than any other on here is Hawke feeling like Bioware's character and not the players, the illusion of being the players is for many destroyed by the reality of how little impact and choice given to the player on who he or she is and not only what he or she can do plot wise.

So why do you like ME3 then?

[Shadow Fox]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

I'd argue it's more that alot of people expect a game's sequel to expand on the options the previous one offered not cut them out DA2 failed to do this for those people thus they did not enjoy it.

The point of emphasizing the concept of loss aversion is to say that people are more upset by something lost (racial choice) than they are pleased by anything gained (narrative relevance). 

As to how well DA3 will do with the latter is anyone's guess.

You're assuming that the people upset at this believe they are gaining anything from it's loss or care,or believe it is worth losing a feature they enjoy for.

It's not a psychological issue like you are trying to make it out to be.*if that's not your intent I apologize*

Modifié par Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke, 22 octobre 2012 - 09:52 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

2leggywillow wrote...

otherkin-themed emo pop album

That sounds awesome.

[Caiden012]

I think a lot of us just want to know "Why?". What sort of features are we gaining from losing race choice?

[Nerevar-as]

Gileadan wrote...

A human protagonist is pretty much what I expected and I'm fine with it. And selectable but not playable backgrounds worked well enough for Mass Effect, and in my opinion are an improvement over Dragon Age 2.

Can't see any other race making sense as an inquisitor anyway.

Yeah, I loved how being a Sole Survivor affected my interactions with cerberus. Especially the Renegade Interrupt when Jacob and Miranda asked me how it had felt to lose everybody on Akuze.<_<

[Nerevar-as]

Caiden012 wrote...

I think a lot of us just want to know "Why?". What sort of features are we gaining from losing race choice?

VO, which allows better flow of conversations and cinematic presentation. Which would be great if this was a movie and not a game.

[Icinix]

Allan Schumacher wrote...
For those that feel this is a necessary component to "making the character theirs" I'm curious what peoples thoughts are to games like the Ultima ones, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Knights of the Old Republic, or even Planescape: Torment.

I like KOTOR got two mentions.


MODEDIT: Sorry, I accidentally clicked on "Edit" instead of "Quote" as I am failmod...

Modifié par Icinix, 22 octobre 2012 - 10:13 .

[The Elder King]

Nerevar-as wrote...

Gileadan wrote...

A human protagonist is pretty much what I expected and I'm fine with it. And selectable but not playable backgrounds worked well enough for Mass Effect, and in my opinion are an improvement over Dragon Age 2.

Can't see any other race making sense as an inquisitor anyway.

Yeah, I loved how being a Sole Survivor affected my interactions with cerberus. Especially the Renegade Interrupt when Jacob and Miranda asked me how it had felt to lose everybody on Akuze.<_<

It was the reason I couldn't play a Sole Survivor Shepard past ME. It was ridicolous to not have dialogues about it.

[WardenWade]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Discuss how this makes you feel here.

Be civil to one another.  Respect that other people have differing opinions, and this works both ways.  So if you LIKE this decision, respect that others are disappointed by it.

Rather than closing threads I'll try talking with posters whom I think are crossing the line.

I myself am disappointed by this direction.  I understand the developers have reasons for making this choice for DA3 but unfortunately it will influence my buying the game.  I do hope, however, that the selectable origins proposed for DA3 signify a turning back to some of the aspects of DA: Origins and increase replayability for players, and am hopeful that as Mr. Gaider mentioned here races will be back in a future game   Perhaps race options will even be available for a Baldur's Gate style multiplayer, as MP seems likely for DA3.

Thank you for soliciting opinions on this, Mr. Schumacher.  It is greatly appreciated

Modifié par WardenWade, 22 octobre 2012 - 10:52 .

[Caiden012]

Nerevar-as wrote...

Caiden012 wrote...

I think a lot of us just want to know "Why?". What sort of features are we gaining from losing race choice?

VO, which allows better flow of conversations and cinematic presentation. Which would be great if this was a movie and not a game.

David said a few months ago that they were not limited by a voiced protagonist and race options.

Modifié par Caiden012, 22 octobre 2012 - 09:59 .

[Dagr88]

The best part of Origins was that different races provided larger and more distinguished variety of PC backgrounds. There is no such thing as a human prince of underground kingdom in DA universe. As well as human nomadic tribe which is trying to preserve their culture.

But that was only possible because later PC becomes a Grey Warden. In DA Wardens are Grey mass of cannon fodder against Darkspawn. PC is a part of the organization where his/her race or history DOESN'T MATTER. Yet the game acknowledge that PC has a history and by that allows us to do some things like:

- Kill you backstabbing brother
- Marry a bastard or a Queen
- Make sure that your sister marries a King

BUT the death of archdemon, coronation of at least 1 Fereldan leader and Orzammar King will happen anyway...

Yes, some people enjoy playing bearded scull crushing drunken midgets, and I respect that. Other enjoy playing oppressed nature folk while thinking that every human finds them sexy.

But I think that people are waiting the most to see those things, that make every background special. An Ex-templar that rallies his brothers and by that snatches victory from the jaws of defeat, bloodmage that will play puppet master with countrie's major figures, rogue that can gain control of the thief's guild and by that gains an option to save someone important who is 100% of the time will die in others playthroughs. (I'm hopping that the specialization is tied to the background, because learning how to become a Ranger or Shapeshifter by having a pleasant chat with a master is a bit...)

Ending can be the same (archdemon's death). Same with the middle parts. But small variation that are tied to specific background will create 2nd Origins without race option.

PC: Dwarves and Elves has nothing to in Orlais politics, specially when even simple humans are treated like dirt by nobility.

Modifié par Dagr88, 22 octobre 2012 - 09:59 .