3855 réponses à ce sujet

[Joy Divison]

What a surprise. Bioware limiting the player's choices.

Maybe Bioware should just make movies?

[Huntress]

Trista Faux Hawke wrote...

I'm starting to have my doubts aftering finding a convo on Laidlaw's twitter feed. Observe:




After reading this, I'm assuming the backgrounds aren't playable like they were in DAO, but instead set up like in the first Mass Effect game: a block of text summarizing your character's story. :/

Ok it only talks about a human but will it be inquisitor the only option? it will sucks if  inquisitor is the only option but hey! I might even finish Skyrim this time around!
Is a bit boring but.. meh I can play as anything! even as a cat creature thing:lol:

[Monica21]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

No, I'm talking about no differences.  Just that Hawke (and family, though I suppose we could even make Hawke adopted) are now elves and dwarves.

I'm actually being very specific in asking this.

Because the issue is seeming to be very different than simply wanting to play as a dwarf or an elf.  I'm inferring by your response that the Elf/Dwarf option would only be sufficient if the game was appropriately altered to properly support the characters (insofar as much for your own liking anyways).

You said you didn't like Hawke.  I'm asking "Is it that you didn't like Hawke because he's human or is there other aspects of Hawke that make you dislike him?"

I know this wasn't directed at me and that I'm answering this way late, but hey, I had stuff to do.

I didn't dislike Hawke and I rather enjoy my DA2 playthroughs, but I will say that I wasn't entirely pleased with the character. I think s/he could have felt less like a character of Varric's (or BioWare's) and more like a result of my choices than s/he ended up being. I felt pigeon-holed into a certain style of Hawke (green, purple, red) and I didn't have to be, but the feeling was there nonetheless. I didn't particularly like way back when we first heard that Hawke ends up in Kirkwall because s/he is fleeing Lothering. What kind of hero flees? And maybe that's really the heart of any beefs I have with DA2; Hawke is an observer, not a hero. For all the mentions I've heard on various game forums about how some players would like to not be the hero, in the end it's not all that satisfying.

I think I have a handle on why the story of DA2 needed to be told the way it was and why Hawke was more of an observer than an active participant (if that was the intent). I still play DA2, but I would much rather play the active participant that I feel I had with Origins if given the choice. There are a lot of things I could go through that didn't please me with regard to DA2, but nothing that I think was "broken" about Hawke could have been fixed simply by choosing a different race.

[Meltemph]

It is hard for me to beleive that any writer, when they make backgrounds for characters, doesnt have a bunch of ideas, desires, and plans for these said backgrounds. I think the only real "concern" consumers should really have at this stage of the game is if the people paying for the game to be made, gave enough time for the "core" idea's to be implimented.

Obviously no game gets everything in it developers want, but ya. Other then that, imo the background stuff sounds like a great idea, fleshed out good. Seems like it has more potential to personalize your character then origins could. Hope so anywho.

Modifié par Meltemph, 23 octobre 2012 - 06:21 .

[Palipride47]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Palipride47 wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

The backgrounds will not be playable (I thought this was already clear actually).

I guess not. Though you may spark more fan rage, if the people who are already upset didn't know. Or less, hard to say. 

But I assume now people will respond to you more than ME, closer to how Race in DA generated response? That is why I love the races (that, and some new cultures to explore) 

If the backgrounds (eve as nonplayable ones) can do that, I'll be happy. Dunno about others, though. 

If it sparks rage, so be it.  Better to be direct about something like this IMO.

I actually only have a cursory knowledge of the backgrounds.  I have quickly read over what they are, and have seen the odd reference to them in the bits where I am in game.  I do know of some ideas on where/how they will come into play for some of the major plots (though I haven't actually experienced said major plots) which do sound interesting.

I am hoping that they provide enough variety and roleplaying opportunities.  I don't know why ME's were as simple/straight forward as they were, but based on what David has said going forward, at the very least writers seem very cognizant of the hope that they'll be referenced more frequently and with more significance than ME.

OHHHH I GOT MY FIRST DEV RESPONSE!!!!!! 

Ok, curiosity sated, satisfied for now, will wait to hear more regarding the interactivity, I'll go trot off to the F/F <3 romance thread now 

And thanks, just btw!

Modifié par Palipride47, 23 octobre 2012 - 06:35 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

No, I'm talking about no differences.  Just that Hawke (and family, though I suppose we could even make Hawke adopted) are now elves and dwarves.

I'm actually being very specific in asking this.

Because the issue is seeming to be very different than simply wanting to play as a dwarf or an elf.

Just playing as a dwarf or an elf, given the different perspectives on society offered by being a dwarf or an elf, would inform roleplaying decisions.  If you were capable of making roleplaying decisions in DA2 as a humnan, then being a dwarf or an elf would allow you to make different roleplaying decisions.

It would still be the same pool of decisions, but the combinations that arose could be different as a result of having a PC with a different point of view on issues of culture.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I don't know why ME's were as simple/straight forward as they were, but based on what David has said going forward, at the very least writers seem very cognizant of the hope that they'll be referenced more frequently and with more significance than ME.

This is, I think, a move in the wrong direction.  The backgrounds should be referenced less, not more.  The more you write relating to the backgrounds, the less wiggle room we have to define those backgrounds ourselves.

Please tell me one of the backgrounds is a mysterious stranger.

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 23 octobre 2012 - 06:44 .

[Monica21]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

No, I'm talking about no differences.  Just that Hawke (and family, though I suppose we could even make Hawke adopted) are now elves and dwarves.

I'm actually being very specific in asking this.

Because the issue is seeming to be very different than simply wanting to play as a dwarf or an elf.

Just playing as a dwarf or an elf, given the different perspectives on society offered by being a dwarf or an elf, would inform roleplaying decisions.  If you were capable of making roleplaying decisions in DA2 as a human, then being a dwarf or an elf would allow you to make different roleplaying decisions.

It would still be the same pool of decisions, but the combinations that arose could be different as a result of having a PC with a different point of view on issues of culture.

I'm not sure that's true, because, speaking from my own experience, the dialogue wheel felt very locked-in. There may have been different ways to respond to Varric or Bodahn if I was playing a dwarf, and a different reaction to the Primeval Thaig if I were dwarven or elven, but that puts additional resources into more dialogue trees and I don't know if BioWare had those resources.

But, say I played a dwarf and supported Bhelen in Origins. In DA2 I run into Harrowmont's supporters as a dwarven Hawke. This would have been a great opportunity to add additional dialogue and different RP decisions, but in the end it wouldn't have changed much, and would only have been available to a small subset of players. Would it be worth the resources it would have needed for something so small? I'm not sure.

[Meltemph]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

No, I'm talking about no differences.  Just that Hawke (and family, though I suppose we could even make Hawke adopted) are now elves and dwarves.

I'm actually being very specific in asking this.

Because the issue is seeming to be very different than simply wanting to play as a dwarf or an elf.

Just playing as a dwarf or an elf, given the different perspectives on society offered by being a dwarf or an elf, would inform roleplaying decisions.  If you were capable of making roleplaying decisions in DA2 as a humnan, then being a dwarf or an elf would allow you to make different roleplaying decisions.

It would still be the same pool of decisions, but the combinations that arose could be different as a result of having a PC with a different point of view on issues of culture.

Eh.  In terms of how a different race will effect you, in terms of your choices based on the racial cultural differences I agree.  However for the story setting to be more believable and more "real" the different races should be treated as such.  Otherwise the lore based racial differences are trivialized by the same setting that gave you those cultural differences.

This is, I think, a move in the wrong direction. The backgrounds should be referenced less, not more. The more you write relating to the backgrounds, the less wiggle room we have to define those backgrounds ourselves.

Please tell me one of the backgrounds is a mysterious stranger.

The consequences of those backgrounds can be developed, without destroying player agency.  The background, if specific enough ,and have specific enough consequences is possible without breaking your PC.

Modifié par Meltemph, 23 octobre 2012 - 06:54 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

Monica21 wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Just playing as a dwarf or an elf, given the different perspectives on society offered by being a dwarf or an elf, would inform roleplaying decisions.  If you were capable of making roleplaying decisions in DA2 as a human, then being a dwarf or an elf would allow you to make different roleplaying decisions.

It would still be the same pool of decisions, but the combinations that arose could be different as a result of having a PC with a different point of view on issues of culture.

I'm not sure that's true, because, speaking from my own experience, the dialogue wheel felt very locked-in. There may have been different ways to respond to Varric or Bodahn if I was playing a dwarf, and a different reaction to the Primeval Thaig if I were dwarven or elven, but that puts additional resources into more dialogue trees and I don't know if BioWare had those resources.

No, you don't understand.  The options would be the same.  But since your character's cultural perspective would be different, the reasons you would choose one option over another would be different.

That's enough difference for me.  That's all the difference I think we ever get - what makes one playthrough different from another is the PC's decision-making process.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Meltemph wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Please tell me one of the backgrounds is a mysterious stranger.

The consequences of those backgrounds can be developed, without destroying player agency.

They can be, but will they?  There will exist some character that will be broken by any such background integration.

The only way to ensure that the character isn't broken by the background is to have no explicit reference to that background.

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 23 octobre 2012 - 06:54 .

[Meltemph]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Meltemph wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Please tell me one of the backgrounds is a mysterious stranger.

The consequences of those backgrounds can be developed, without destroying player agency.

They can be, but will they?  There will exist some character that will be broken by any such background integration.

The only way to ensure that the character isn't broken by the background is to have no explicit reference to that background.

It could be the opposite as well, without breaking the character.  IF you are specific enough about the background(certain parts of it anyways), you can make references to the specifics mentioned in that background. 

[Wolfspawn]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I actually only have a cursory knowledge of the backgrounds.  I have quickly read over what they are, and have seen the odd reference to them in the bits where I am in game.  I do know of some ideas on where/how they will come into play for some of the major plots (though I haven't actually experienced said major plots) which do sound interesting.

WHAT!? YOU'RE PLAYING THE GAME?
Lucky...
What's it like?

[Allan Schumacher]

Early

[Meltemph]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Early

Dont envy you... Just let me know when it's "later".

[DominantDjDark]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Palipride47 wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

The backgrounds will not be playable (I thought this was already clear actually).

I guess not. Though you may spark more fan rage, if the people who are already upset didn't know. Or less, hard to say. 

But I assume now people will respond to you more than ME, closer to how Race in DA generated response? That is why I love the races (that, and some new cultures to explore) 

If the backgrounds (eve as nonplayable ones) can do that, I'll be happy. Dunno about others, though. 

If it sparks rage, so be it.  Better to be direct about something like this IMO.

I actually only have a cursory knowledge of the backgrounds.  I have quickly read over what they are, and have seen the odd reference to them in the bits where I am in game.  I do know of some ideas on where/how they will come into play for some of the major plots (though I haven't actually experienced said major plots) which do sound interesting.

I am hoping that they provide enough variety and roleplaying opportunities.  I don't know why ME's were as simple/straight forward as they were, but based on what David has said going forward, at the very least writers seem very cognizant of the hope that they'll be referenced more frequently and with more significance than ME.

mmhm, I look forward to seeing how the background affects the game, and have no doubt that DA3 will be awesome. <3

[Pauravi]

Monica83 wrote...

Its supposed to be a "sequel" a sequel should have all the feature of the pervious games improved and new one added...

1. I don't agree with this.  At all.  It should have all the features it needs to coherently tell the story it is telling, and should NOT have features that don't make sense or that don't add anything of value.

2. The idea of "improved" is vague and not agreed upon by everyone.  For instance, some people hated DA2 combat and wanted DAO combat back.  I thought it was vastly improved over DAO.

[Monica21]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
No, you don't understand.  The options would be the same.  But since your character's cultural perspective would be different, the reasons you would choose one option over another would be different.

That's enough difference for me.  That's all the difference I think we ever get - what makes one playthrough different from another is the PC's decision-making process.

Can you give me an example? I'm trying to think of a situation in which a Hawke would choose a different response based on race, but I can't.

[Meltemph]

Monica21 wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
No, you don't understand.  The options would be the same.  But since your character's cultural perspective would be different, the reasons you would choose one option over another would be different.

That's enough difference for me.  That's all the difference I think we ever get - what makes one playthrough different from another is the PC's decision-making process.

Can you give me an example? I'm trying to think of a situation in which a Hawke would choose a different response based on race, but I can't.

He is talking about how one would "psychologically" respond to a situation being a dwarf or elf, and what not.  As in, being more understanding of certain cultural differences or less so(like the mage conflict or how you deal with the events dealing with the darkspawn). 

Less about the choices themselves, but more about how you come to those choices. 

[CaolIla]

So Bioware is going the lazy route... who would have thought?

[Tevinter Dragon God]

Ok, Bioware, you say you listen to your community. Then why the hell do you not make an option for different races again for DA3!!!
I am sick of being human again, I want a good old elf! And no Origin story either, do Bioware even listen to us?

Modifié par Tevinter Dragon God, 23 octobre 2012 - 07:36 .

[Monica21]

Meltemph wrote...

Monica21 wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
No, you don't understand.  The options would be the same.  But since your character's cultural perspective would be different, the reasons you would choose one option over another would be different.

That's enough difference for me.  That's all the difference I think we ever get - what makes one playthrough different from another is the PC's decision-making process.

Can you give me an example? I'm trying to think of a situation in which a Hawke would choose a different response based on race, but I can't.

He is talking about how one would "psychologically" respond to a situation being a dwarf or elf, and what not.  As in, being more understanding of certain cultural differences or less so(like the mage conflict or how you deal with the events dealing with the darkspawn). 

Less about the choices themselves, but more about how you come to those choices. 

Well, I get that, but if there aren't any dialogue options to fit a cultural perspective then your choice is basically whether you want to play a diplomatic dwarf Hawke or a sarcastic elven Hawke.

[Allan Schumacher]

CaolIla wrote...

So Bioware is going the lazy route... who would have thought?

Define lazy.

Actually don't.  You can hate our decision, but just call a spade a spade and say you don't like the decision we made.  If you think I'm "lazy" then you don't know me, nor my colleagues.

We aren't sitting around with our feet up drinking cognac going "Good show mates, now that that's resolved there's not much to do but sit around and enjoy the sun!"

[Allan Schumacher]

Tevinter Dragon God wrote...

Ok, Bioware, you say you listen to your community. Then why the hell do you not make an option for different races again for DA3!!!
I am sick of being human again, I want a good old elf! And no Origin story either, do Bioware even listen to us?

I notice in your original post you talked about having only a human character being the same as a premade.

Do you feel this is the really the case, or is it more of an issue that you didn't like Hawke and don't want to be constrained to playing someone like Hawke again?

By only allowing a human character, does that mean it must be a premade?  If so, how do games like Planescape: Torment, or Knights of the Old Republic seem in your eyes?

[DominantDjDark]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

CaolIla wrote...

So Bioware is going the lazy route... who would have thought?

Define lazy.

Actually don't.  You can hate our decision, but just call a spade a spade and say you don't like the decision we made.  If you think I'm "lazy" then you don't know me, nor my colleagues.

We aren't sitting around with our feet up drinking cognac going "Good show mates, now that that's resolved there's not much to do but sit around and enjoy the sun!"

mmhm, Honestly, I only really ever played a human in DA, it just...suited me, and as for that comment about you guys going the lazy route, it's BS, You guys have done alot of Hard work, most of which you didn't have to, but you did, You chose to, Hell, you still are, DLC, new games, etc, I'd hardly call that lazy. *fist bump*