3855 réponses à ce sujet

[Dubya75]

I've only ever played Dragon Age as a Human, so I'm not bothered by this.

[Palipride47]

DominantDjDark wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

CaolIla wrote...

So Bioware is going the lazy route... who would have thought?

Define lazy.

Actually don't.  You can hate our decision, but just call a spade a spade and say you don't like the decision we made.  If you think I'm "lazy" then you don't know me, nor my colleagues.

We aren't sitting around with our feet up drinking cognac going "Good show mates, now that that's resolved there's not much to do but sit around and enjoy the sun!"

mmhm, Honestly, I only really ever played a human in DA, it just...suited me, and as for that comment about you guys going the lazy route, it's BS, You guys have done alot of Hard work, most of which you didn't have to, but you did, You chose to, Hell, you still are, DLC, new games, etc, I'd hardly call that lazy. *fist bump*

Bump the fist bump. Lazy is one thing I cannot say about the team. I can say they are masochists though. I would've set the BSN on fire after one week of personal attacks. 

Modifié par Palipride47, 23 octobre 2012 - 07:47 .

[jackygates]

I feel that having another "human"  main char is not what I want I feel that if you gave us elven and Dwarf origins in DA:O yet you gave us Hawke in DA2 which don't get me wrong the story was good but not as good as when you have that choise in DA:O... I am sure it will be the same with DA3 but having another human isn't what we all wanted and if you guys do go that route then for the love of everything that is awesome and fun bring back the dang Mod Kit I miss DA:O's one I love adding mods and stuff to the game!!  Mod Community revolt till Bio gives us a kit for Mods for DA3!!! 

[DominantDjDark]

Palipride47 wrote...

DominantDjDark wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

CaolIla wrote...

So Bioware is going the lazy route... who would have thought?

Define lazy.

Actually don't.  You can hate our decision, but just call a spade a spade and say you don't like the decision we made.  If you think I'm "lazy" then you don't know me, nor my colleagues.

We aren't sitting around with our feet up drinking cognac going "Good show mates, now that that's resolved there's not much to do but sit around and enjoy the sun!"

mmhm, Honestly, I only really ever played a human in DA, it just...suited me, and as for that comment about you guys going the lazy route, it's BS, You guys have done alot of Hard work, most of which you didn't have to, but you did, You chose to, Hell, you still are, DLC, new games, etc, I'd hardly call that lazy. *fist bump*

Bump the fist bump. Lazy is one thing I cannot say about the team. I can say they are masochists though. I would've set the BSN on fire after one week of personal attacks. 

Indeed. :happy:

[The Elder King]

Joy Divison wrote...

What a surprise. Bioware limiting the player's choices.

Maybe Bioware should just make movies?

Regardless of the fact that there were RPG in the past with a human only-PC, there are plenty of other developer studios who don't make rpg but games. Are you suggesting that they're not making games because they'll not let yu play as different races?

[zyntifox]

I don't usually agree with you Allan but i do respect you a lot. Why? Anyone having to sit for hours and read and answer forum posts as their job is clearly a better man than I.

[Drasynd]

Another forced HUMAN character. No surprises there, it's always easier to create one than many.
For me one of the biggest problems was Hawke. A set char. with a set future, with nearly every detail pre-decided (and what we did have influence with, meant nothing).

And if I CAN choose, I rarely play humans.

[Pauravi]

RosaAquafire wrote...

There are no special RP considerations of cultural baggage associated with being a human.

Of course there are.  Do you believe that Ferelden culture is the same as the Rivaini, or the Orlesians, or Antivan? This is as silly as claiming that humans here on Earth don't come with cultural baggage.  Besides, there are a million other kinds of baggage you could have by virtue of being some particular human.  I don't see what makes City Elves so much more interesting.

RosaAquafire wrote...

No matter what flavour of human I have, I'll never get to roleplay the mix of defiant pride and constant self-loathing that comes with playing a Thedosian elf, or the blase attitude towards moral ambiguity, assassination, and murder that comes with playing a Thedosian dwarf.

Why not?  I've run across plenty of human characters that could be described by those traits.

RosaAquafire wrote...

It just frustrates me that Bioware creates the most interesting versions of Fantasy 101 races I've ever seen via unique cultures, lets us roleplay as them, and then railroads us into objectively the least interesting culture of the lot.

Look.  Aside from my complete disagreement with your assessment of the importance of race in determining how interesting a character is, just think of it this way:

Dragon Age is going to be a BioWare IP for a very long time.  It is their fantasy-genre RPG, and they have fleshed out a huge world with a lot of different conflicts and machinations going on.  What does that mean?  It means that there are a LOT of possible stories to tell -- but it isn't realistic to think that all of them are going to lend themselves to every possible protagonist.

Choice is good, but not all choices are good all the time.

[Terrorize69]

DominantDjDark wrote...

Palipride47 wrote...

DominantDjDark wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

CaolIla wrote...

So Bioware is going the lazy route... who would have thought?

Define lazy.

Actually don't.  You can hate our decision, but just call a spade a spade and say you don't like the decision we made.  If you think I'm "lazy" then you don't know me, nor my colleagues.

We aren't sitting around with our feet up drinking cognac going "Good show mates, now that that's resolved there's not much to do but sit around and enjoy the sun!"

mmhm, Honestly, I only really ever played a human in DA, it just...suited me, and as for that comment about you guys going the lazy route, it's BS, You guys have done alot of Hard work, most of which you didn't have to, but you did, You chose to, Hell, you still are, DLC, new games, etc, I'd hardly call that lazy. *fist bump*

Bump the fist bump. Lazy is one thing I cannot say about the team. I can say they are masochists though. I would've set the BSN on fire after one week of personal attacks. 

Indeed. :happy:

Ditto, BW isn't in the wrong with their decision.

It's funny how many people are QQin over "no racial choice", without considering that maybe, JUST MAYBE, there is a good reason, like say... the PC as another race MAY not fit the CONTEXT of the STORY.

Without knowing anything about the plot other then its about the war, it's ignorant and foolish to scream insults and hate at the BW team when you may find it can be entirely justified.

So put your toys back in your prams, wait untill the game is released and your knowledge of DA3 is atleast sub-par, THEN come here and whine your asses of IF you then believe that playing as another race would of fit the context of the story.

[Pauravi]

Palipride47 wrote...

Bump the fist bump. Lazy is one thing I cannot say about the team. I can say they are masochists though. I would've set the BSN on fire after one week of personal attacks.

Hahahaha, seconded

[zyntifox]

Terrorize69 wrote...

DominantDjDark wrote...

Palipride47 wrote...

DominantDjDark wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

CaolIla wrote...

So Bioware is going the lazy route... who would have thought?

Define lazy.

Actually don't.  You can hate our decision, but just call a spade a spade and say you don't like the decision we made.  If you think I'm "lazy" then you don't know me, nor my colleagues.

We aren't sitting around with our feet up drinking cognac going "Good show mates, now that that's resolved there's not much to do but sit around and enjoy the sun!"

mmhm, Honestly, I only really ever played a human in DA, it just...suited me, and as for that comment about you guys going the lazy route, it's BS, You guys have done alot of Hard work, most of which you didn't have to, but you did, You chose to, Hell, you still are, DLC, new games, etc, I'd hardly call that lazy. *fist bump*

Bump the fist bump. Lazy is one thing I cannot say about the team. I can say they are masochists though. I would've set the BSN on fire after one week of personal attacks. 

Indeed. :happy:

Ditto, BW isn't in the wrong with their decision.

It's funny how many people are QQin over "no racial choice", without considering that maybe, JUST MAYBE, there is a good reason, like say... the PC as another race MAY not fit the CONTEXT of the STORY.

Without knowing anything about the plot other then its about the war, it's ignorant and foolish to scream insults and hate at the BW team when you may find it can be entirely justified.

So put your toys back in your prams, wait untill the game is released and your knowledge of DA3 is atleast sub-par, THEN come here and whine your asses of IF you then believe that playing as another race would of fit the context of the story.

But if you took out all the origins out of DA:O and just had the human noble you could make the same argument. That this is a story about a human noble to defeat the blight and avenge his family. In that case you can't have the elves since they are not nobles. But by introducing different starting points and intertwine the story's at a later point you can allow multiple races. You can always adapt the story after gameplay.

[Terrorize69]

Cstaf wrote...

Terrorize69 wrote...

DominantDjDark wrote...

Palipride47 wrote...

DominantDjDark wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

CaolIla wrote...

So Bioware is going the lazy route... who would have thought?

Define lazy.

Actually don't.  You can hate our decision, but just call a spade a spade and say you don't like the decision we made.  If you think I'm "lazy" then you don't know me, nor my colleagues.

We aren't sitting around with our feet up drinking cognac going "Good show mates, now that that's resolved there's not much to do but sit around and enjoy the sun!"

mmhm, Honestly, I only really ever played a human in DA, it just...suited me, and as for that comment about you guys going the lazy route, it's BS, You guys have done alot of Hard work, most of which you didn't have to, but you did, You chose to, Hell, you still are, DLC, new games, etc, I'd hardly call that lazy. *fist bump*

Bump the fist bump. Lazy is one thing I cannot say about the team. I can say they are masochists though. I would've set the BSN on fire after one week of personal attacks. 

Indeed. :happy:

Ditto, BW isn't in the wrong with their decision.

It's funny how many people are QQin over "no racial choice", without considering that maybe, JUST MAYBE, there is a good reason, like say... the PC as another race MAY not fit the CONTEXT of the STORY.

Without knowing anything about the plot other then its about the war, it's ignorant and foolish to scream insults and hate at the BW team when you may find it can be entirely justified.

So put your toys back in your prams, wait untill the game is released and your knowledge of DA3 is atleast sub-par, THEN come here and whine your asses of IF you then believe that playing as another race would of fit the context of the story.

But if you took out all the origins out of DA:O and just had the human noble you could make the same argument. That this is a story about a human noble to defeat the blight and avenge his family. In that case you can't have the elves since they are not nobles. But by introducing different starting points and intertwine the story's at a later point you can allow multiple races. You can always adapt the story after gameplay.

DA:O, the Wardens took everyone and anyone from all walks of life and in times of a blight, old treaties are used for races to set aside differences and defend Thedas from the threat.

DAO was unique in that.

Untill people know about the DA3 plot, they cannot assume there isn't a good reason for human only PC.

What do we know, the Chantry is in ruins and Mages/Templars are at war. Why would dwaves and dalish be bothered by that? It's not their religion on the brink of destruction, it's not their "holy" warriors fighting their mages.

Modifié par Terrorize69, 23 octobre 2012 - 08:33 .

[Tal_Elmar]

Ah, DA2, here we go again

So much for listening to fans' feedback...as if for the first time

[Madosu]

I am really disappointed by this.. I can see the logic of it in the context of the story, but I'm still disappointed, because of how awesome all the different origin stories was in DA:O, counter, how impersonal Hawke was to me.

[zyntifox]

Yeah, but let's assume the protagonist is taken into a organization that is for humans only, for some reason, in DA3. If they really wanted to have multiple races they could write themselves out of that conundrum quite easily.

All i am saying is that there are good reason for not having multiple races; cost of voiceacting (assuming you can't have one for all), problems with cinematic presentation or just general resource problems but story shouldn't be a issue for a professional such as David to work around.

[mach24erica]

i love different race in this game .

[Pauravi]

Tal_Elmar wrote...

Ah, DA2, here we go again

So much for listening to fans' feedback...as if for the first time

We know almost nothing about the game, or the plot, or any of the characters including the protagonist, and yet you've come to the conclusion that it will be exactly like DA2?  I guess I shouldn't be surprised... there's just no stopping the Argument From Ignorance.

[AlexJK]

Just because I feel like poking the angry tiger with a stick... I don't mind playing as a human, no issue with it at all. Different backgrounds will (hopefully) allow for multiple playthroughs experiencing the game content a different way (I am really hoping for a proper mage vs. templar vs. neutral kind of background system), and I personally don't see why races are essential to this. The presence of other races and cultures in the story and in the DA universe is enough for me.

Summary: Origin stories were a great feature of DAO and I wouldn't complain if they returned (assuming that the story called for them, and there was good reason for their presence), but I won't be OMGCANCELLINGMYPREORDER over this one.

Modifié par AlexJK, 23 octobre 2012 - 09:12 .

[Tal_Elmar]

Pauravi wrote...

Tal_Elmar wrote...

Ah, DA2, here we go again

So much for listening to fans' feedback...as if for the first time

We know almost nothing about the game, or the plot, or any of the characters including the protagonist, and yet you've come to the conclusion that it will be exactly like DA2?  I guess I shouldn't be surprised... there's just no stopping the Argument From Ignorance.

I'm not assuming, I'm just pessimistic. And with a good reason. Marketing talk is one thing, but DA2, ME3...they speak for themselves.

Let's wait and see, but I'm not getting my hopes high and for sure not preordering the Collector's Edition as I did for ME3...God tell me, why?? 

[Darth Krytie]

Tal_Elmar wrote...

Ah, DA2, here we go again

So much for listening to fans' feedback...as if for the first time

Why your statement is crap.

1. Not all fans give the same feedback.
2. Listening to feedback is not the same thing as agreeing and implementing.
3. Some feedback is contradictory, and thus all feedback can't be implemented.
4. You have no basis for assuming DA3 is the same as DA2 as you haven't played the game or have even seen a demo.

[Tal_Elmar]

1. Most fans give similar feedback, you can read it in this 50+ page long thread
2. See paragraph ''Marketing Talk"
3. See 1.
4. I have every right to assume whatever I want, freedom of choice, eh?

I'm not going to dig deeper into this dispute. I voiced my opinion, I leave

[Pauravi]

Tal_Elmar wrote...

I'm not assuming, I'm just pessimistic. And with a good reason. Marketing talk is one thing, but DA2, ME3...they speak for themselves.

Let's wait and see, but I'm not getting my hopes high and for sure not preordering the Collector's Edition as I did for ME3...God tell me, why??

I don't think your reasons are quite as good as you seem to think.

Quite a lot of people thought that ME3 was an excellent game, you know.  Thoughts about the ending aside, on the whole I loved it.  The dialogue was fantastic, and I thought that a number of the ideas they implemented (diversity of weapons and armor, upgrades, interactions with your crewmates, interactions between your crewmates) were the best of any of the 3 games and absolutely addressed the fans complaints and requests.  So citing ME3 as a reason for your pessimism about them listening to the fanbase rings pretty hollow to me.

[The Elder King]

Tal_Elmar wrote...

1. Most fans give similar feedback, you can read it in this 50+ page long thread
2. See paragraph ''Marketing Talk"
3. See 1.
4. I have every right to assume whatever I want, freedom of choice, eh?

I'm not going to dig deeper into this dispute. I voiced my opinion, I leave

A user summarized the post's opinion on the matter up a certain point, by making a list dividing people with similar opinions in different groups, and it shown a different results from what you pointed out.

[AllThatJazz]

Pauravi wrote...

Palipride47 wrote...

Bump the fist bump. Lazy is one thing I cannot say about the team. I can say they are masochists though. I would've set the BSN on fire after one week of personal attacks.

Hahahaha, seconded

Thirded, that entire statement. Do the devs get everything right, all the time? Nope, they are, after all, human beings. Will there always be elements of the games they make that some fans will not enjoy? Pretty much a guarantee. Do they try things that don't always pan out the way they'd like? Yep. Not an indicator of laziness. On the contrary, they seem like a very decent and hardworking bunch of people.

Frankly, I'm amazed and impressed that any devs post on the BSN at all, given some of the appalling things that have been written about some of them :/ Allan especially, is brilliant at being active across the BSN and engaging with fans  - it is much appreciated  

[Dutchess]

 

Pauravi wrote...

Tal_Elmar wrote...

Ah, DA2, here we go again

So much for listening to fans' feedback...as if for the first time

We know almost nothing about the game, or the plot, or any of the characters including the protagonist, and yet you've come to the conclusion that it will be exactly like DA2?  I guess I shouldn't be surprised... there's just no stopping theArgument From Ignorance.

Pretty much all features that have been announced so far were in DA2 and not in DAO. This is just another one. So it's not that ignorant to assume which direction the game is heading.

I call BS on the story reason for a human-only protagonist. Same has been said about DA2, that Hawke being human would allow for a deeper character and better story. While with a few adjustments it would have been possible to let Hawke be an elf or even a dwarf. Human was just the most... convenient, I suppose. And even within that one human character differences in class/specialization did not matter. Mage was a joke, and there are no words for Hawke running around as a happy blood mage for six years.

Indeed we know very little about the story of the new game. That is why I don't understand there are already a lot of people yelling that an elf or dwarf as the protagonist would not have made sense. But:
1. We know very little of the Inquisition, and certainly not that it is a human-only organization.
2. People assume it is an organization that works for the Chantry, but I believe the short description states that the Inquisition steps in after the Chantry fails to restore order. That doesn't mean the Inquisition is Andrastian too.
3. Even if the Inquisition was an order of zealots, there is no law that states dwarves or elves can't believe in the Maker and Andraste. We have already seen that city elves believe in the Chantry, and even in Orzammar a dwarf was trying the spread the same faith. I don't see why surface dwarves who have been living topside for a few generations would not believe in the Maker. 
4. In the Grey Wardens the large majority was male humans. Alistair says he hasn't seen a dwarf with the Wardens yet, and I believe he had a story about one elf. That it's rare doesn't mean it's not allowed or impossible. Why would the Inquisition actively ban talented dwarves/elves? It's war, the situation is probably pretty desperate, so why would they turn down a possibly very skilled member? For now the only reason could be that they are royally stupid, which doesn't sound very appealing.


So... I'm curious what that very good story reason will be, if there is one. For now I don't see it. Could be that there is one, but it better be a good one. I have swallowed the outright lies ("Your decisions will shape Kirkwall!" Bah.) of the developpers on this subject before and I'm not going to do it again. 


As for Bioware being lazy: although the assumption that the team is just having more holidays is doubtful, it is not difficult to see where people are coming from when they say that. Racial options have been done before - in DAO, and in other games. People know it's possible for developers, also for Bioware. So when Bioware says: "nope, no different races", without any further explanation... well, then the first impression you get is that it's the cheap and easy thing to do. 
Also, so far I have only seen excuses for why it would be so difficult to implement. "Voice actors, camera angles, story".... That comes across as uninspired, especially since it has been done before, in Bioware's own games no less. Again, those excuses lead to the assumption that a human protagonist is the easiest thing to do and requires the least of work. 
It's Bioware's choice to provide certain information. If you're not willing to share reasons behind a certain decision, there's little point in acting offended when people arrive at certain conclusions due to lack of information.