3855 réponses à ce sujet

[DarthLaxian]

Palipride47 wrote...
Bump the fist bump. Lazy is one thing I cannot say about the team. I can say they are masochists though. I would've set the BSN on fire after one week of personal attacks. 

well - they invited that by going down that road, after fans told them not, asked them to reconsider and even BEGGED (!) them (!)...sorry, but if someone begs you and you still tell him "no way mate" then it is clear (even more so, because this was on the wish list of fans ever since DA2 went in a different direction) that this invites being called out (sometimes inapropriately, but still rightfully so!)

greetings LAX

[Felya87]

the fact is: with DA:o it was as going to a good restaurant: you could choose a lot of different foods (races) all with a particular contour (playable origins).

DA2 was the same restaurant, but only serves an insipid salad.

the "chef" (bioware) assured they would improve the menu.

but, at leas for now, is just seem as if the new menù is a selection of few different tipe of salad.

[DominantDjDark]

Tal_Elmar wrote...

Ah, DA2, here we go again

So much for listening to fans' feedback...as if for the first time

It's funny, like everyone's saying, we know pretty much nothing, and you've already concluded that it's going to be DA2 all over again, I'd suggest waiting for more info / trailers etc, before making that judgement without Evidence to back it.

[The Elder King]

DarthLaxian wrote...

Palipride47 wrote...
Bump the fist bump. Lazy is one thing I cannot say about the team. I can say they are masochists though. I would've set the BSN on fire after one week of personal attacks. 

well - they invited that by going down that road, after fans told them not, asked them to reconsider and even BEGGED (!) them (!)...sorry, but if someone begs you and you still tell him "no way mate" then it is clear (even more so, because this was on the wish list of fans ever since DA2 went in a different direction) that this invites being called out (sometimes inapropriately, but still rightfully so!)

greetings LAX

The fact that they didn't listened to fan about playable races doesn't make them lazy. It makes them indifferent to fan's requests (which I don't think so, but it's a legitimate thought).
And in what world when someone begs you have to give that person what they want?

[The Elder King]

Felya87 wrote...

the fact is: with DA:o it was as going to a good restaurant: you could choose a lot of different foods (races) all with a particular contour (playable origins).

DA2 was the same restaurant, but only serves an insipid salad.

the "chef" (bioware) assured they would improve the menu.

but, at leas for now, is just seem as if the new menù is a selection of few different tipe of salad.

I like the analogy, though I hope that there'll be some chicken at least in the salad. I need to eat meat .

[DominantDjDark]

Felya87 wrote...

the fact is: with DA:O it was as going to a good restaurant: you could choose a lot of different foods (races) all with a particular contour (playable origins).

DA2 was the same restaurant, but only serves an insipid salad.

the "chef" (bioware) assured they would improve the menu.

but, at leas for now, is just seem as if the new menù is a selection of few different type of salad.

You have a point sir, but if that one selection of salad is awesome. who cares if it's only one type of salad?
I'd prefer to have an awesome story, awesome gameplay and alot of customization / fun, as opposed to being able to choose a bunch of races.

Besides, from what I've read most people stick with Human anyway, so it's not even an issue. 

Modifié par DominantDjDark, 23 octobre 2012 - 10:02 .

[Dutchess]

DominantDjDark wrote...

Besids, from what I've read most people stick with Human anyway, so it's not even an issue. 

This thread would not be 60 pages long if that was true.

[DarthLaxian]

DominantDjDark wrote...

Tal_Elmar wrote...

Ah, DA2, here we go again

So much for listening to fans' feedback...as if for the first time

It's funny, like everyone's saying, we know pretty much nothing, and you've already concluded that it's going to be DA2 all over again, I'd suggest waiting for more info / trailers etc, before making that judgement without Evidence to back it.

sorry, but with what they tell us that conclusion is logical and that they are ignoring us is evident by them not getting us race-choices even after we complained about that since DA2 came out and that was YEARS ago!

greetings LAX
ps: why do people still defend BW after what they did with DA2 (which was like spitting in the face of DA:O fans) and Mass Effect 3 which was a punch into our guts (more so because they spread miss-information and outright LIES (!) before that came out!)
pps: if they took the easy way out here, who can say if they will not do so on other issues (combat system, choices, romance options and romance video-scenes etc.?)...sorry, but opting out everywhere is kind of cheap (not saying they do, but it is a legitimate concerne that they will!)

Modifié par DarthLaxian, 23 octobre 2012 - 10:04 .

[NUM13ER]

I have little issue with the protagonist being a set race. I've thoroughly enjoyed Witcher 2 even though it's a set character because he was offered important choices. If not being able to be an elf is DA3's means better choice as a human, so be it.

I also think it'll be interesting if a future game based around being a Dalish Elf, Dwarf or even Kossith would get the same backlash.  Wonder if the "misanthropes" will find something else to cry foul over then.

Modifié par NUM13ER, 23 octobre 2012 - 10:06 .

[Momiji.mii]

I don't have time to read all 60 pages of this thread, but I feel like I should post my opinion and I hope its not too redundant.

I don't mind playing as a human. I did that in DAO twice and have yet to play as a dwarf or elf. It wasn't really a concious decision I think. I don't dislike the thought of playing as an elf or dwarf and will certainly try that if I re-play DAO again someday. Some of my interest in doing so is from seeing how passionately people here and elsewhere in the DA fandom love those races.

I didn't mind that Hawke was only human in DA2, though the idea that Allan brought up of Hawke being an adopted dwarf or elf would probably have been interesting as well, had it been explored. I think I definitely would have explored the option to play as an adopted child of another race than my family if I had been given a chance because the idea appeals to me.

I don't mind the lack of racial options for DA3 either. I mean, Human is apparently my go-to race when playing, even if this was because of an unconciously made decision initially. But if the next game had me playing as an Elf and no other race, I wouldn't mind that. In fact, I'd welcome the opportunity to try something different. And the same goes for playing a Dwarf or a Qunari.

I really feel for those who had their hopes up for being able to play something other than a human PC, and I hope that we get games in the future that gives them the choices they long for.

[DominantDjDark]

DarthLaxian wrote...

DominantDjDark wrote...

Tal_Elmar wrote...

Ah, DA2, here we go again

So much for listening to fans' feedback...as if for the first time

It's funny, like everyone's saying, we know pretty much nothing, and you've already concluded that it's going to be DA2 all over again, I'd suggest waiting for more info / trailers etc, before making that judgement without Evidence to back it.

sorry, but with what they tell us that conclusion is logical and that they are ignoring us is evident by them not getting us race-choices even after we complained about that since DA2 came out and that was YEARS ago!

greetings LAX
ps: why do people still defend BW after what they did with DA2 (which was like spitting in the face of DA:O fans) and Mass Effect 3 which was a punch into our guts (more so because they spread miss-information and outright LIES (!) before that came out!)

I personally like to blame it on EA, they set the release dates, thus, Bioware doesn't exactly have time to do everything they need to...and as for DA2...well, it was originally supposed to be a DLC for DA:O...until it was adapted into a full game. <_<

[AlexJK]

renjility wrote...

As for Bioware being lazy: although the assumption that the team is just having more holidays is doubtful, it is not difficult to see where people are coming from when they say that. Racial options have been done before - in DAO, and in other games. People know it's possible for developers, also for Bioware. So when Bioware says: "nope, no different races", without any further explanation... well, then the first impression you get is that it's the cheap and easy thing to do.

No, it *really* isn't, unless you were pre-disposed to believing that game developers are lazy people in the first place, which is just ridiculous.

Also, so far I have only seen excuses for why it would be so difficult to implement. "Voice actors, camera angles, story".... That comes across as uninspired, especially since it has been done before, in Bioware's own games no less. Again, those excuses lead to the assumption that a human protagonist is the easiest thing to do and requires the least of work.

None of those excuses have come from Bioware, only from fans trying to defend them. Bioware have simply said "we're not doing that in this game." DA3 will also probably not contain a tetris mini-game, a base-building strategy game and a flight simulator. Is that "lazy" too?

It's Bioware's choice to provide certain information. If you're not willing to share reasons behind a certain decision, there's little point in acting offended when people arrive at certain conclusions due to lack of information.

Don't be ridiculous. Bioware don't need to explicitly state that "2+2=4" to stop you from concluding that it's 5.

[Icinix]

renjility wrote...

DominantDjDark wrote...

Besids, from what I've read most people stick with Human anyway, so it's not even an issue. 

This thread would not be 60 pages long if that was true.

Based on analytic data - the percentage of players who picked a race other than human is miniscule.


...one of the reasons why I hate analytic data being used in games.

Edit: Here http://social.biowar...21847/1#5822035

Modifié par Icinix, 23 octobre 2012 - 10:08 .

[DominantDjDark]

renjility wrote...

DominantDjDark wrote...

Besides, from what I've read most people stick with Human anyway, so it's not even an issue. 

This thread would not be 60 pages long if that was true.

Well, that's true. but the decision has been made, and Human is the set race, and, as someone said earlier, getting voice actor's for other races would make things...harder, unless they removed the voiced protagonist, but that won't happen either.

PS: as the post above me said, the number of people playing races other than human is miniscule, sure, people love their elves, others love their dwarves, but that's why alot of people play PC....those dudes have mods for that kind of thing...more or less.

Modifié par DominantDjDark, 23 octobre 2012 - 10:11 .

[Icinix]

DominantDjDark wrote...

renjility wrote...

DominantDjDark wrote...

Besides, from what I've read most people stick with Human anyway, so it's not even an issue. 

This thread would not be 60 pages long if that was true.

Well, that's true. but the decision has been made, and Human is the set race, and, as someone said earlier, getting voice actor's for other races would make things...harder, unless they removed the voiced protagonist, but that won't happen either.

Also cinematic work - it means in their cutscenes they need to adjust for the height of the head or have situations where the player may not be where they need them to be.

I personally would rather see a static camera, no voice etc etc - but I'm a minority - and with luck the game will be mod friendly or easy enough to tinker.

[The Elder King]

DarthLaxian wrote...


greetings LAX
ps: why do people still defend BW after what they did with DA2 (which was like spitting in the face of DA:O fans) and Mass Effect 3 which was a punch into our guts (more so because they spread miss-information and outright LIES (!) before that came out!)
pps: if they took the easy way out here, who can say if they will not do so on other issues (combat system, choices, romance options and romance video-scenes etc.?)...sorry, but opting out everywhere is kind of cheap (not saying they do, but it is a legitimate concerne that they will!)

I'm not defending Bioware. My opinion of DA2 and ME3 is that they are not on par on other recent Bioware games. I don't know if I'll buy DA3, for various issue. The race options didn't influence my opinion of DA3 for a simple reason: is one of my favourite feature of DAO, and I was greatly disappointed in not having them in DA2, but I made my mind up that we'll not get race options back in 2011.
I already knew they'll not give us race options in DA3. I'm hoping of having greater PC customization in other fields.
If the background will have a relevant role in DA3, if the CC will be finally well done, if the class/specialization will have a relevant role in the game (and people recognize a mage PC), I'll have no problem with having no race options in DA3.

Modifié par hhh89, 23 octobre 2012 - 10:13 .

[Dutchess]

AlexJK wrote...

None of those excuses have come from Bioware, only from fans trying to defend them. Bioware have simply said "we're not doing that in this game." DA3 will also probably not contain a tetris mini-game, a base-building strategy game and a flight simulator. Is that "lazy" too?

I have seen them coming from Bioware too, in the thread that announced the end of DA2. The excuses revolved around "resources".

Don't be ridiculous. Bioware don't need to explicitly state that "2+2=4" to stop you from concluding that it's 5.

I can't speak for others, but I daresay that more insight in Bioware's reasoning would help me understand instead of just the "no" I see now.

[DominantDjDark]

Icinix wrote...

DominantDjDark wrote...

renjility wrote...

DominantDjDark wrote...

Besides, from what I've read most people stick with Human anyway, so it's not even an issue. 

This thread would not be 60 pages long if that was true.

Well, that's true. but the decision has been made, and Human is the set race, and, as someone said earlier, getting voice actor's for other races would make things...harder, unless they removed the voiced protagonist, but that won't happen either.

Also cinematic work - it means in their cutscenes they need to adjust for the height of the head or have situations where the player may not be where they need them to be.

I personally would rather see a static camera, no voice etc etc - but I'm a minority - and with luck the game will be mod friendly or easy enough to tinker.

mmhm. Yea, the cinematic work would take some working, and as for the voiced protagonist, well, it's too late for that to change, Dragon Age has evolved with the times...so to speak...reminds me of what happened Between Star wars: Kotor and Star wars: ToR *shudders*

Modifié par DominantDjDark, 23 octobre 2012 - 10:17 .

[The Elder King]

renjility wrote...

[
I can't speak for others, but I daresay that more insight in Bioware's reasoning would help me understand instead of just the "no" I see now.

There was a post explaining the decision of no race option by a dev (I think Gaider or Epler) in the first post about this topic. It was locked Saturday/Sunday.

[Icinix]

AlexJK wrote...

renjility wrote...

As for Bioware being lazy: although the assumption that the team is just having more holidays is doubtful, it is not difficult to see where people are coming from when they say that. Racial options have been done before - in DAO, and in other games. People know it's possible for developers, also for Bioware. So when Bioware says: "nope, no different races", without any further explanation... well, then the first impression you get is that it's the cheap and easy thing to do.

No, it *really* isn't, unless you were pre-disposed to believing that game developers are lazy people in the first place, which is just ridiculous.

Also, so far I have only seen excuses for why it would be so difficult to implement. "Voice actors, camera angles, story".... That comes across as uninspired, especially since it has been done before, in Bioware's own games no less. Again, those excuses lead to the assumption that a human protagonist is the easiest thing to do and requires the least of work.

None of those excuses have come from Bioware, only from fans trying to defend them. Bioware have simply said "we're not doing that in this game." DA3 will also probably not contain a tetris mini-game, a base-building strategy game and a flight simulator. Is that "lazy" too?

It's Bioware's choice to provide certain information. If you're not willing to share reasons behind a certain decision, there's little point in acting offended when people arrive at certain conclusions due to lack of information.

Don't be ridiculous. Bioware don't need to explicitly state that "2+2=4" to stop you from concluding that it's 5.

Actually a lot of those arguments were made by BioWare - some way back in DA2 release information and after release - and more recently in some previous posts about it too. They're legitimate reasons - but then from someone with my point of view - it becomes an argument for the overall direction of non combat portions of the game.

[ianvillan]

Icinix wrote...

renjility wrote...

DominantDjDark wrote...

Besids, from what I've read most people stick with Human anyway, so it's not even an issue. 

This thread would not be 60 pages long if that was true.

Based on analytic data - the percentage of players who picked a race other than human is miniscule.


...one of the reasons why I hate analytic data being used in games.

Edit: Here http://social.biowar...21847/1#5822035

Also if Bioware is going to release one bit of data they hould release all the rest as well, like how many people played male or female, how many people played what class, how many people played what specializations and how many people choses which ending.

Because if Bioware are going to justify the desisions they make on useing feedback data then they should use the data on all other aspects as well.
I would guess that arcane warrior was one of the most played mage specs yet it was cut, I would guess the dark ritual was one of the most popular endings yet that is not going to be used, so why is it ok to use feedback data for some aspects of the game but not others.

[Gtacatalina]

Disappointed by the decision, but not surprised. 

[Icinix]

DominantDjDark wrote...
mmhm. Yea, the cinematic work would take some working, and as for the voiced protagonist, well, it's too late for that to change, Dragon Age has evolved with the times...so to speak...reminds me of what happened Between Star wars: Kotor and Star wars: ToR *shudders*

Oh God! I'm playing ToR at the moment (Single Player - I hate the MMO side of things) - but yeah - About every minute I keep thinking "Why didn't they just make a KOTOR3?" - and the damn dialgoue wheel says something unexpected fifty percent of the time....so then I think thank god they didn't destroy a single player KOTOR3 experience.

[The Elder King]

ianvillan wrote...



Also if Bioware is going to release one bit of data they hould release all the rest as well, like how many people played male or female, how many people played what class, how many people played what specializations and how many people choses which ending.

Because if Bioware are going to justify the desisions they make on useing feedback data then they should use the data on all other aspects as well.
I would guess that arcane warrior was one of the most played mage specs yet it was cut, I would guess the dark ritual was one of the most popular endings yet that is not going to be used, so why is it ok to use feedback data for some aspects of the game but not others.

For that they should create a canon playthrough.

Modifié par hhh89, 23 octobre 2012 - 10:21 .

[Dutchess]

Icinix wrote...

renjility wrote...

DominantDjDark wrote...

Besids, from what I've read most people stick with Human anyway, so it's not even an issue. 

This thread would not be 60 pages long if that was true.

Based on analytic data - the percentage of players who picked a race other than human is miniscule.


...one of the reasons why I hate analytic data being used in games.

Edit: Here http://social.biowar...21847/1#5822035

The percentage may be small, but with a sample of millions of gamers, that is still a lot of people who appreciated the option. And when you are just going to base yourself on this, you can remove all choices and just keep the most popular option for everything. Say Loghain dead, Alistair king, the werewolf curse lifted, Connor saved without killing Isolde, etc. The majority of the gamers also did not complete the game. So perhaps we can skip the ending altogether too (may not be that much of a loss if it means not a crappy cliffhanger:unsure:)?