3855 réponses à ce sujet

[Felya87]

AlexJK wrote...

Felya87 wrote...

what you said means: if I played Assassin's creed 1, and I played with the animus, playng than as a character of the past, in the second chapter we should't play with the animus, and play as a character of the past as in the first? but that was the good stuff in AC!

No, I didn't say that. If origin stories were included in DA2 and/or DA3, that would not be a problem. I am saying that there is no reason why we should expect them to be, based only on the fact that they existed in DAO.

for the Grey Warden things, yes, I was disappointed to not have another Grey Warden as protagonist. that's why I still don't understand DA2. the first game we where one, why shouldn't have been one again? it was part of the good stuff of DA:O

Because DA2 is a different game, with a different story, and a different main character. Again, there's no reason why the player should not have been a Grey Warden in DA2 or DA3, but no good reason for why they should be, either.
.

and for DA2 being in the same world as DA:O...it's hard to believe. Kirkwall is not Ferelden, and if not for same detail here and there, it's almost hard to think of DA2 as the same lore of DA:O. let's not speak about how much things are different because of the choise made in DA:O imported in DA2, because a lot of people would became even more upset (people dead who is alive ecc...)

So are you suggesting that all fantasy settings have only one location? Origins had many locations. Orzammar and Denerim were extremely different. Is it that difficult to imagine that Kirkwall exists in the same world?

is not for location. is just for lore. Kirkwall feel very different from Ferelden. now it's not so simple to me explain, because I have problem with english...but in good part, is given by the segregation of most of the game in the same town, I guess.  we saw little outside, who could give us more remembrance od DA:O' world.
And some other things...like the Dalish being always outside the town for several years, even if they should be nomads (yes there is all the story of Merrill and the keeper, but it feels just strange that they are always there...at least couldn't just make some travel here and there, and than came back ata the start of the act?)

the chantry (not the Templars) wasn't very at contact with people. In DA:O, ok it was a terrible period, during a blight, but the chantry fell more participatory to people's life.

there is no reference to Dwarf's racism between classes, and very little about the Elf in the Alienage. just some word here and there, some little thing...

all those little things, and other, make DA2 lore's quite distant from DA:O's lore.

[jackygates]

Everyone here is auguring about the lack of PC choices its evident in the 60+ pages I for one Love to play Origins as a Female Dalish Elf not having a choice of race in DA2 was sad but sure it didn't do as well as DA;O but for me having a few of the DA:O people in the game as a suprize was worth it for me but I will have a problem if a few things aren't addressed its going to be the same as DA2 and I don't wish that for DA3! No more Hack and Slash I like it but I miss the tactic like game play of DA;O, no reused areas/caves, more diverse environment not the same city scape and coastal areas, more story Driven DLCs like DA:Os, if blood mage NPC's should know and it would change convos.. stuff like that I will reserve my full reaction until there is more info about the game suffice to say I am sad you have to be human I hope Bio epics the story better than DA2!! Much love to Bio their games are the best in the industry when it comes to choose your destiny games!!

[Fast Jimmy]

jackygates wrote...

Everyone here is auguring about the lack of PC choices its evident in the 60+ pages I for one Love to play Origins as a Female Dalish Elf not having a choice of race in DA2 was sad but sure it didn't do as well as DA;O but for me having a few of the DA:O people in the game as a suprize was worth it for me but I will have a problem if a few things aren't addressed its going to be the same as DA2 and I don't wish that for DA3! No more Hack and Slash I like it but I miss the tactic like game play of DA;O, no reused areas/caves, more diverse environment not the same city scape and coastal areas, more story Driven DLCs like DA:Os, if blood mage NPC's should know and it would change convos.. stuff like that I will reserve my full reaction until there is more info about the game suffice to say I am sad you have to be human I hope Bio epics the story better than DA2!! Much love to Bio their games are the best in the industry when it comes to choose your destiny games!!

Yikes. I feel like I need to tell you to take a breath aftter that.

[Atlanth]

I would have liked to play as a dwarf or an elf, but...oh well. Still, hopefully we'll get different origins for mage/rogue/warrior and not the same one like in DA2. That would be pretty cool, I think.

[mousestalker]

The international period and comma shortage is over. There is now an ample supply of all punctuation characters. Just F.Y.I.

P.S. I'm an avid fan of Bioware games as well.

Modifié par mousestalker, 23 octobre 2012 - 12:34 .

[jackygates]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

jackygates wrote...

Everyone here is auguring about the lack of PC choices its evident in the 60+ pages I for one Love to play Origins as a Female Dalish Elf not having a choice of race in DA2 was sad but sure it didn't do as well as DA;O but for me having a few of the DA:O people in the game as a suprize was worth it for me but I will have a problem if a few things aren't addressed its going to be the same as DA2 and I don't wish that for DA3! No more Hack and Slash I like it but I miss the tactic like game play of DA;O, no reused areas/caves, more diverse environment not the same city scape and coastal areas, more story Driven DLCs like DA:Os, if blood mage NPC's should know and it would change convos.. stuff like that I will reserve my full reaction until there is more info about the game suffice to say I am sad you have to be human I hope Bio epics the story better than DA2!! Much love to Bio their games are the best in the industry when it comes to choose your destiny games!!

Yikes. I feel like I need to tell you to take a breath aftter that.

English wasn't my favorte thing to do in school I tend to forget where to put puntionation when I type heh sry!

[Terrorize69]

BW have already stated that in the future they do play on using all 4 races, but not for DA3.

Here comes logic (the bane of BSN whiners). Clearly they are fully aware people want to play different races, and have stated that a future game will use them all. But for now, no. Clearly there is a reason for excluding other races in DA3 when they are fully prepared to use them in a future game.

They do listen, they are aware of the demands of the minority, they will cater to you, just not this time and have a reason they can't share with you just yet. As a compromise you are getting different backgrounds that will effect the story/game.

Bioware do listen, they do take note. But, they are not going to risk the integrity of their games story/plot IF other races would not fit the context of the story.

I would of thought a "good" solid/deeper plot/story is more important then a cosmetic aspect. If you believe otherwise then clearly the DA series is not for you, WoW is still taking players if racial decision above story is what you desire.

[TMZuk]

So, if I understand what's being said correctly, we just choose different backgrounds, ala Mass Effect? No playable prologues?

Poor or rich, city slicker or country bumkin, noble or commoner?

Underwhelming in the extreme!

It seems like Bioware is hell-bent on abandoning everything that made DA:O great! The orgins are a feature I hear hailed from all sides when I discuss DA:O with other gamers. With one exception there is none of the people I discuss games with who did not think DA2 an extremely poor game. And still Bioware franticly clings on to the belief that they made the right choices for DA2.

I should like to hear some arguments ~why~ the best concept of DA:O is left behind, and I should also like to ask if Bioware does not realize that when you take away features from the original in sequels, they are bound to feel less than the original, not more.

Modifié par TMZuk, 23 octobre 2012 - 12:46 .

[FaeQueenCory]

I am.... disappoint......
This is already pushing the mix further in the more-like-DA2 category rather than the 50-50 mix that was alluded to.....
:-/
Looks like having origins and multiple race selection is dead.... probably forever.

[InvaderXX]

looks cool

http://gamerant.com/...-3-concept-art/

[Wolven_Essence]

I am really disappointed.  I am so tired of playing humans in games like this.  It's a role playing game, give us different roles to play. 

[LadyVaJedi]

I do wish that we have the choice of which race to play but I will still play the DA 3

[Fredward]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

jackygates wrote...

Everyone here is auguring about the lack of PC choices its evident in the 60+ pages I for one Love to play Origins as a Female Dalish Elf not having a choice of race in DA2 was sad but sure it didn't do as well as DA;O but for me having a few of the DA:O people in the game as a suprize was worth it for me but I will have a problem if a few things aren't addressed its going to be the same as DA2 and I don't wish that for DA3! No more Hack and Slash I like it but I miss the tactic like game play of DA;O, no reused areas/caves, more diverse environment not the same city scape and coastal areas, more story Driven DLCs like DA:Os, if blood mage NPC's should know and it would change convos.. stuff like that I will reserve my full reaction until there is more info about the game suffice to say I am sad you have to be human I hope Bio epics the story better than DA2!! Much love to Bio their games are the best in the industry when it comes to choose your destiny games!!

Yikes. I feel like I need to tell you to take a breath aftter that.

Yeah, no kidding.

[demonic_cookie]

Okay, I obviously haven't read the 63 pages of discussion, although I can imagine how that went... I just wanted to say my opinion on this

First, I liked both games (for different reasons), and I'm definitely pre-ordering DA3 just because I love the DA team that dang much So none of this is dealbreaking. But. (and it is a big, stinky but)

I do prefer not being human, and I do prefer origins. I feel like I was spoiled by DAO and am now longing for the good old days, but I can't help myself. Telling a story to two alienage kids in a City Elf origin will forever be my most treasured gaming experience ever. Other things I liked about race:

1. More cultural context. I felt the character had more grounding in reality simply because it wasn't just your general fantasy human society around him. A Cousland feels like a spherical noble fantasy hero in a vacuum; other races seemed more textured and intriguing next to him. Hawke felt the same: there wasn't any culture around him, just vague fantasy setting stuff. I feel like this might be mitigated somewhat by providing more grounding and cultural context for the human protagonists, but I'm not holding my breath.

2. More distance from the conflict, and hence, more immersion. That might seem backwards, but let me explain. As a dwarf or an elf I had the option of going "I don't care about your silly human problems" at people, and that felt like an extra layer of insulation that actually allowed me to get really involved because I cared, not because I felt my character should care. As a human I always felt a bit like Hawke at that first killing-the-sibling scene. I know my character is devastated, but as a player I really can't be bothered. So, um, an option of "I don't care and your problems are stupid, but I'll solve them anyway" would be appreciated, at least occasionally.

3. Just plain badassery. Anyone who thinks a dwarf with a big axe is not awesome is in dire need of a priority check. And, well, humans are boring to me. They're the bland default option I only take for completion's sake or if I don't have another option. Which goes back to cultural context, because DA humans simply have none.

So yeah, I'm disappointed we're not getting a race choice and an origin story, but I think the backgrounds are a good step in the right direction. Even that much customization goes a long way to creating immersion for me; even though ME backgrounds were just two paragraphs of text, a quest and some lines of dialogue I still imagined whole personalities on that basis...

Terrorize69, ooh, where did they state that there would be race choices in future games? If that's true it makes me really happy.

Modifié par demonic_cookie, 23 octobre 2012 - 01:17 .

[AlexJK]

demonic_cookie wrote...

Terrorize69, ooh, where did they state that there would be race choices in future games? If that's true it makes me really happy.

Mike Laidlaw has said that he wants racial choice in future games, but of course the existence of any future games beyond DA3 have not been confirmed, let alone any features. http://twitter.com/M...839329482985475

[Terrorize69]

demonic_cookie wrote...

Terrorize69, ooh, where did they state that there would be race choices in future games? If that's true it makes me really happy.

Here you go

David Gaider wrote...


Yup, we're aware of that. Not every fantasy game has that, of course,
but it's nice when it's available (and used appropriately as more than
just an appearance variant, in my opinion). I think Mike said at the
panel to not take this as an indication of where DA is headed in the
future-- he said we intend to go return to "all four races as playable"
in the future (his words). In the meantime, we want to increase
customization and focus on what's important to DA3.

Like I said, BW are fully aware, they do listen. Sadly most fans that are whining are not listening in return, or only listening to part of a message and not understanding the full message.

Another quote i'll go dig up in a sec, states/heavily suggests that other races didn't fit the concept in DA3.

Edit: Here, it doesn't down right say it, but again, heavily suggests there is a good reason behind the decision.

John Epler wrote...

I'm not diminishing that, to some people, being able to play as a race
other than human is a Big Deal. However, it wasn't an option that we
felt fit our plans for DA3. Obviously, some people are going to be
disappointed - that's unfortunate, but it's inevitable. If it means you
aren't going to buy the game, that's certainly your prerogative and
right as a consumer, and I encourage folks to vote with their wallet.

Modifié par Terrorize69, 23 octobre 2012 - 01:31 .

[Harle Cerulean]

Terrorize69 wrote...

demonic_cookie wrote...

Terrorize69, ooh, where did they state that there would be race choices in future games? If that's true it makes me really happy.

Here you go

David Gaider wrote...


Yup, we're aware of that. Not every fantasy game has that, of course,
but it's nice when it's available (and used appropriately as more than
just an appearance variant, in my opinion). I think Mike said at the
panel to not take this as an indication of where DA is headed in the
future-- he said we intend to go return to "all four races as playable"
in the future (his words). In the meantime, we want to increase
customization and focus on what's important to DA3.

Like I said, BW are fully aware, they do listen. Sadly most fans that are whining are not listening in return, or only listening to part of a message and not understanding the full message.

Another quote i'll go dig up in a sec, states/heavily suggests that other races didn't fit the concept in DA3.

Saying they "intend" to return to racial choice is not saying they will.  They also said they would consider it for DA3.  Well, they did: they considered it, and then rejected it.  Don't take it as anything more than what it is: bait. 

[Dagr88]

Terrorize69 wrote...
Bioware do listen, they do take note. But, they are not going to risk the integrity of their games story/plot IF other races would not fit the context of the story.

That's the problem. Sometimes people just "WANT", and they don't care how it will effect everything else. Lore, plot, skill balance are secondary things before their "WANT".

By lore Orlais is a human centered society. And unless DA3 plot is about City elves's revolt against oppression I don't see how PC can be one them, unless s/he finds a "Broom of Infinite Might" on the streets of Alianage after a day of polishing some lord's manor with his/her spit.

Or you think surface dwarves start a Legion of the angry merchants and take over Orlais?

If we don't know the plot/settings of DA3 and developers do, and they say that they can't use dwarven/elven PC for some reasons, then stop WANTING and start giving ideas how to compensate that aspect... or just continue to be a puffy cheek person.

Modifié par Dagr88, 23 octobre 2012 - 01:48 .

[demonic_cookie]

Terrorize69, thanks for the quotes, that does indeed look promising

[ianvillan]

Dagr88 wrote...

Terrorize69 wrote...
Bioware do listen, they do take note. But, they are not going to risk the integrity of their games story/plot IF other races would not fit the context of the story.

That's the problem. Sometimes people just "WANT", and they don't care how it will effect everything else. Lore, plot, skill balance are secondary things before their "WANT".

By lore Orlais is a human centered society. And unless DA3 plot is about City elves's revolt against oppression I don't see how PC can be one them, unless s/he finds a "Broom of Infinite Might" on the streets of Alianage after a day of polishing some lord's manor with his/her spit.

Or you think surface dwarves start a Legion of the angry merchants and take over Orlais?

If you don't know the plot/settings of DA3 and developers do, and they say that they can't use dwarven/elven PC for some reasons then stop WANTING and start giving ideas how to compensate that aspect... or just continue to be a puffy cheek person.

Bioware also said the reason Hawke was human was because being human was integral to the story.
Alot of people have criticized   the story of DA2 and have mentioned how Hawke was passive and no way integral to the story. What part exactly was being human in DA2 integral to the story.

Also this is the second story in the row that has to have a human as the central character because it is integral to the story, surely Bioware can write more storys than ones that leave no room for other races.

[nightscrawl]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

In regards to an idea that is a little more on topic, I'd be curious to see if backgrounds are limited to class, or if they would be totally stand alone concepts, like in ME.

For instance, no matter if you were a Vanguard or a Solider in ME1, you could still have the Earthborn background or the Sole Survivor psych profile.

I haven't played ME, so I didn't know about this. I like this idea.

I'd be interested to see if you can only have the Circle-raised background if you are a mage, or the city-commoner background if you are a rogue.

And, also, I'd be intrigued to see how they differentiate between the rogue and warrior classes in regards to background and story flavor. All too often, it seems like the mage has been the stand out class, with the rogue and warrior classes blending together into the background. Human Noble/Dwarven Noble/Dwarven Commoner/Dalish/City Born Elf (even the planned Chasind Barbarian Origin) all had very little difference if you were a rogue or a warrior other than combat. I'd like to see that change.

Hm... you know I WAS going to say that the way they have designed the classes in this game with the mage having a special cultural distinction makes that a bit difficult, even though I agree that it is an issue. Then I thought about it a bit. One thing they could do to have a non-mage class have a Chantry background and a connection to the Circle is to have it as the child of a Circle mage. As we know, children who are born to Circle mages are taken away to be raised by the Chantry. It seems like a perfect solution to me.

I'd also like to see a mage background include the option for either a Circle upbringing or an Apostate one. The chance for story-telling between those two worlds is pretty staggering.

Yepper, I agree there.

Granted, I can think of very little reason why the Inquisition would allow an Apostate to be in (let alone command) the Inquisition, but I pose that challenge to the writers to see if they can make that happen.

As far as I know, we don't know yet whether our PC will be an inquisitor. Because of the mere existence of the mage class being available, I imagine that it will be a bit more involved than that, unless they plan on having really divergent paths based on class choice -- something I would very much like to see as it would add tremendous replay value.

Also, given that the backgrounds will be non-playable, how they wind up influencing the story/game could be interesting. Stat bonuses and penalties (like some of Fallout's perks, which are double-edge swords) could be cool, but obviously the meat and potatoes is going to be the story and dialogue influences.

Meh stat bonuses... seems a bit overused, but I suppose it IS an RPG staple for such choices.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 23 octobre 2012 - 01:48 .

[Herlonski]

No Elven or Dwarven protagonist makes me wanna cry.

Well, at least I'll always be able to roll either of those races in DA:O... *sigh*

[Dutchess]

Terrorize69 wrote...

demonic_cookie wrote...

Terrorize69, ooh, where did they state that there would be race choices in future games? If that's true it makes me really happy.

Here you go

David Gaider wrote...


Yup, we're aware of that. Not every fantasy game has that, of course,
but it's nice when it's available (and used appropriately as more than
just an appearance variant, in my opinion). I think Mike said at the
panel to not take this as an indication of where DA is headed in the
future-- he said we intend to go return to "all four races as playable"
in the future (his words). In the meantime, we want to increase
customization and focus on what's important to DA3.

Like I said, BW are fully aware, they do listen. Sadly most fans that are whining are not listening in return, or only listening to part of a message and not understanding the full message.

Another quote i'll go dig up in a sec, states/heavily suggests that other races didn't fit the concept in DA3.

And as Harle said, that's not a promise. They say they "intend" to implement that in a future game. They don't say they will. Indeed they pretended to consider it for this game too, while it was already in development for presumably almost a year, which makes it unlikely they hadn't long since decided there would only be a human PC.So, yeah, hot air, nothing more.
And I don't care what they are going to implement in DA10. It's now about DA3, and that game will only have a human protagonist, for apparently the same reasons as DA2 had one. DA2's reasons turned out to be nonsense, so I'm not convinced. I'm reading the same promises as for the previous game, but nothing to support it yet. 

[Joy Divison]

hhh89 wrote...

Joy Divison wrote...

What a surprise. Bioware limiting the player's choices.

Maybe Bioware should just make movies?

Regardless of the fact that there were RPG in the past with a human only-PC, there are plenty of other developer studios who don't make rpg but games. Are you suggesting that they're not making games because they'll not let yu play as different races?

I don't care if other RPGs force the player to be a human, I still think it is an unneccessary limitation on one of the most basic interesting things to explore in the RPG genre.

I am suggesting they're going in the directions of movies as opposed to games because the lack of racial choice is symptomatic of their tendency to remove the player's agency I felt I had in DA:O.  The dialogue wheel limited [my?] Hawke to saint/jerk/smartass.  Automated dialogue had Bioware put words in [my?] Hawke's mouth.  Events in DA:2 Act III largely made [my?] Hawke's choices irrelevant.  I could not choose the armor or spec of [my?] companions.  Hell, I could not even choose to use a bow for [my?] fighter Hawke.

Modifié par Joy Divison, 23 octobre 2012 - 02:39 .

[Herlonski]

Considering that Elves are Gaelic mythology rip-off and Dwarves are Norse mythology rip-off in the first place, well, that Tolkien used them just hints as to from whence the inspiration came. Thedas might as well have that with its own twist, which I've found most entertaining in the two current games.