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[Rawgrim]

Herlonski wrote...

Considering that Elves are Gaelic mythology rip-off and Dwarves are Norse mythology rip-off in the first place, well, that Tolkien used them just hints as to from whence the inspiration came. Thedas might as well have that with its own twist, which I've found most entertaining in the two current games.

Anything from mythology falls under public domain, I belive. Ergo its not a rip off to use them. thats the technical bit, anyway.

[Herlonski]

Rawgrim wrote...

Anything from mythology falls under public domain, I belive. Ergo its not a rip off to use them. thats the technical bit, anyway.

Well said, good sir!

[Felya87]

what now I ask myself...why is so important for an Inquisitor (if we are going to be effectively one) to be human? we know is a faction related to the Chantry, but if a mage (probably a blood mage too) can be part of it, why can't a non human character be part of it?

I hope is a very good plot reason, not as in DA2...where with little work of writing could be ok have a non human character.

[Rawgrim]

Felya87 wrote...

what now I ask myself...why is so important for an Inquisitor (if we are going to be effectively one) to be human? we know is a faction related to the Chantry, but if a mage (probably a blood mage too) can be part of it, why can't a non human character be part of it?

I hope is a very good plot reason, not as in DA2...where with little work of writing could be ok have a non human character.

Blood Magic is accepted if the PC does it. My mage Hawke did it infront of templars all the time.

[Talvaris]

I would love to pick my race since it adds to the story for me. That said i would still be willing to play the game if the story was interesting which I'm sure it will be.

[Dutchess]

Felya87 wrote...

what now I ask myself...why is so important for an Inquisitor (if we are going to be effectively one) to be human? we know is a faction related to the Chantry, but if a mage (probably a blood mage too) can be part of it, why can't a non human character be part of it?

I hope is a very good plot reason, not as in DA2...where with little work of writing could be ok have a non human character.

So far there hasn't been a single cue why being a human would be so essential. So we'll have to wait and see what Bioware comes up with.

[Vandicus]

Rawgrim wrote...

Felya87 wrote...

what now I ask myself...why is so important for an Inquisitor (if we are going to be effectively one) to be human? we know is a faction related to the Chantry, but if a mage (probably a blood mage too) can be part of it, why can't a non human character be part of it?

I hope is a very good plot reason, not as in DA2...where with little work of writing could be ok have a non human character.

Blood Magic is accepted if the PC does it. My mage Hawke did it infront of templars all the time.

Which is something they said they're trying to address in this specific game. Hopefully these kinds of choices(race, when it returns, class, and specialization[&the new backrgounds]) have more relevance moving forward.

[Rawgrim]

Talvaris wrote...

I would love to pick my race since it adds to the story for me. That said i would still be willing to play the game if the story was interesting which I'm sure it will be.

I am sure the story will be great too. But I am not sure about replayability. BG and DA:O had great replay value simply because you could create tons of different characters. In DA2 Bioware created Hawke for you, and let you take it from there. Now they are doing pretty much the same thing again. Shepard visits Dragon Age version 2.0.

[Indoctrination]

Being a human only makes perfect sense in the context of a Dragon Age game outside of Origins.

In case you folks haven't been paying attention, surface world-Thedas isn't a nice place to live in for non-humans. In fact, there's rampant, unapologetic racism everywhere. You got past the race barrier in Origins because you were a Grey Warden, and everyone was forced to take you seriously because of that distinction. In a non-warden themed game, there's nothing giving you that protection.

If the DA3 followed the lore, your average conversation with an NPC as an elf would start and end like this: "Move along, elf! I'm watching you, so don't even think about stealing anything!"

The only way around this is for the writers to retcon the lore and turn Thedas into a post-modern liberal paradise where race is suddenly no longer observed.

[Herlonski]

Indoctrination wrote...

Being a human only makes perfect sense in the context of a Dragon Age game outside of Origins.

In case you folks haven't been paying attention, surface world-Thedas isn't a nice place to live in for non-humans. In fact, there's rampant, unapologetic racism everywhere. You got past the race barrier in Origins because you were a Grey Warden, and everyone was forced to take you seriously because of that distinction. In a non-warden themed game, there's nothing giving you that protection.

If the DA3 followed the lore, your average conversation with an NPC as an elf would start and end like this: "Move along, elf! I'm watching you, so don't even think about stealing anything!"

The only way around this is for the writers to retcon the lore and turn Thedas into a post-modern liberal paradise where race is suddenly no longer observed.

Or implement that as a constant obstacle, which would have the potential of enriching the atmosphere and indeed game play, as well as the general story of the protagonist.

Of course, it might turn a human character into easy-mode, but some do enjoy a challenge.

[Rawgrim]

Indoctrination wrote...

Being a human only makes perfect sense in the context of a Dragon Age game outside of Origins.

In case you folks haven't been paying attention, surface world-Thedas isn't a nice place to live in for non-humans. In fact, there's rampant, unapologetic racism everywhere. You got past the race barrier in Origins because you were a Grey Warden, and everyone was forced to take you seriously because of that distinction. In a non-warden themed game, there's nothing giving you that protection.

If the DA3 followed the lore, your average conversation with an NPC as an elf would start and end like this: "Move along, elf! I'm watching you, so don't even think about stealing anything!"

The only way around this is for the writers to retcon the lore and turn Thedas into a post-modern liberal paradise where race is suddenly no longer observed.

Human only makes sense in worlds where there is only one race to begin with, or if the game is based on a book\\character from a book. Since they let the players pick a race in the first game, it makes no sense to remove that option later. Now they have done it twice.

[Felya87]

Indoctrination wrote...

Being a human only makes perfect sense in the context of a Dragon Age game outside of Origins.

In case you folks haven't been paying attention, surface world-Thedas isn't a nice place to live in for non-humans. In fact, there's rampant, unapologetic racism everywhere. You got past the race barrier in Origins because you were a Grey Warden, and everyone was forced to take you seriously because of that distinction. In a non-warden themed game, there's nothing giving you that protection.

If the DA3 followed the lore, your average conversation with an NPC as an elf would start and end like this: "Move along, elf! I'm watching you, so don't even think about stealing anything!"

The only way around this is for the writers to retcon the lore and turn Thedas into a post-modern liberal paradise where race is suddenly no longer observed.

but we still don't know one thing...and if being an Inquisitor (if we are going to be one) is like the Grey Warden's order, but just new, and chantry related?  is still early to say more, but still...

[Vandicus]

Herlonski wrote...

Indoctrination wrote...

Being a human only makes perfect sense in the context of a Dragon Age game outside of Origins.

In case you folks haven't been paying attention, surface world-Thedas isn't a nice place to live in for non-humans. In fact, there's rampant, unapologetic racism everywhere. You got past the race barrier in Origins because you were a Grey Warden, and everyone was forced to take you seriously because of that distinction. In a non-warden themed game, there's nothing giving you that protection.

If the DA3 followed the lore, your average conversation with an NPC as an elf would start and end like this: "Move along, elf! I'm watching you, so don't even think about stealing anything!"

The only way around this is for the writers to retcon the lore and turn Thedas into a post-modern liberal paradise where race is suddenly no longer observed.

Or implement that as a constant obstacle, which would have the potential of enriching the atmosphere and indeed game play, as well as the general story of the protagonist.

Of course, it might turn a human character into easy-mode, but some do enjoy a challenge.

Which would be something akin to shipping and developing many games for the price of one. This has long been a technology issue, though it seems that Bioware is making good progress in this area. In DA3 they said they're addressing classes and specialization to bring greater relevance to them. When they bring in all four races as playable, as DG has stated is a goal of sorts in this thread, they will hopefully have much greater relevance and be much stronger additions to the atmosphere and story as a result.

This particular narrative they've said would have particular issues with a non-human PC, something which I'm willing  enough to accept.

[Vandicus]

Felya87 wrote...

Indoctrination wrote...

Being a human only makes perfect sense in the context of a Dragon Age game outside of Origins.

In case you folks haven't been paying attention, surface world-Thedas isn't a nice place to live in for non-humans. In fact, there's rampant, unapologetic racism everywhere. You got past the race barrier in Origins because you were a Grey Warden, and everyone was forced to take you seriously because of that distinction. In a non-warden themed game, there's nothing giving you that protection.

If the DA3 followed the lore, your average conversation with an NPC as an elf would start and end like this: "Move along, elf! I'm watching you, so don't even think about stealing anything!"

The only way around this is for the writers to retcon the lore and turn Thedas into a post-modern liberal paradise where race is suddenly no longer observed.

but we still don't know one thing...and if being an Inquisitor (if we are going to be one) is like the Grey Warden's order, but just new, and chantry related?  is still early to say more, but still...

Too early to tell from our PoV, but the writers have told us that this is the case, and I can easily see a place like Orlais being a huge sticking point.

[Rawgrim]

Faerunner wrote...

Thedas isn't a nice place for mages either, yet BioWare is willing to bend its own lore to allow mages (and blood mages!) to take on political and authorative positions. Remember Hawke? S/he should have been stripped of his/her title and sent to the Gallows the minute people figured out s/he was an apostate, yet everyone gave him/her a pass. The Inquisitor is supposedly connected to the Chantry and yet a mage will likely be one. Why are the same accomodations impossible for elves and dwarves?

I am thinking a mage won`t get to be an inquisitor. The devs said they were looking at Skyrim for some stuff earlier. If that is the civil war bit in Skyrim (wich would fit with DA3), it could mean that warrior and rogue starts the play from the inquisitors side, while the mage starts on the other side. Just a theory.

[Teddie Sage]

@Faerunner: Simpler answer - preset character, pre-made story. Shepard was pre-made and had a pre-set story but we still influenced his adventure, kinda like Hawke. Pre-made characters usually get that kind of privileges.

[Rawgrim]

Teddie Sage wrote...

@Faerunner: Simpler answer - preset character, pre-made story. Shepard was pre-made and had a pre-set story but we still influenced his adventure, kinda like Hawke. Pre-made characters usually get that kind of privileges.

True. Too bad the choices never influenced the endings, though. Like they did in DA:O.

[Vandicus]

Faerunner wrote...

Thedas isn't a nice place for mages either, yet BioWare is willing to bend its own lore to allow mages (and blood mages!) to take on political and authorative positions. Remember Hawke? S/he should have been stripped of his/her title and sent to the Gallows the minute people figured out s/he was an apostate, yet everyone gave him/her a pass. The Inquisitor is supposedly connected to the Chantry and yet a mage will likely be one. Why are the same accomodations impossible for elves and dwarves?

Bioware is specifically addressing the lack of relevance of specializations and class in DA3.

The Inquisitor's connection to the Chantry is speculation.

Honestly, when you use this example, are you really just hoping for a reskin that is never acknowledged by the game(since you use an example which is likewise not acknowledged)? Are you telling the developers that you're willing to accept an elf/dwarf/qunari with human family and whom everyone treats like a human?

[Teddie Sage]

You could say the same thing about Shepard's fate, although it came in three different flavours.

[Herlonski]

Vandicus wrote...

Which would be something akin to shipping and developing many games for the price of one. This has long been a technology issue, though it seems that Bioware is making good progress in this area. In DA3 they said they're addressing classes and specialization to bring greater relevance to them. When they bring in all four races as playable, as DG has stated is a goal of sorts in this thread, they will hopefully have much greater relevance and be much stronger additions to the atmosphere and story as a result.

This particular narrative they've said would have particular issues with a non-human PC, something which I'm willing  enough to accept.

Then I sincerely and deeply hope they will make them playable at some point in the future, because that was one factor to why I absolutely loved DA:O.

[Rawgrim]

Teddie Sage wrote...

You could say the same thing about Shepard's fate, although it came in three different flavours.

correct.

[Teddie Sage]

Rawgrim wrote...

Teddie Sage wrote...

You could say the same thing about Shepard's fate, although it came in three different flavours.

correct.

And that it came in three games instead of one / expansion (plus a few dlcs).

Modifié par Teddie Sage, 23 octobre 2012 - 03:17 .

[Vandicus]

Herlonski wrote...

Vandicus wrote...

Which would be something akin to shipping and developing many games for the price of one. This has long been a technology issue, though it seems that Bioware is making good progress in this area. In DA3 they said they're addressing classes and specialization to bring greater relevance to them. When they bring in all four races as playable, as DG has stated is a goal of sorts in this thread, they will hopefully have much greater relevance and be much stronger additions to the atmosphere and story as a result.

This particular narrative they've said would have particular issues with a non-human PC, something which I'm willing  enough to accept.

Then I sincerely and deeply hope they will make them playable at some point in the future, because that was one factor to why I absolutely loved DA:O.

David Gaider posted this in the original thread(which was locked when it was derailed into "what is a roleplaying game"). 


Yup, we're aware of that. Not every fantasy game has that, of course, but it's nice when it's available (and used appropriately as more than just an appearance variant, in my opinion). I think Mike said at the panel to not take this as an indication of where DA is headed in the future-- he said we intend to go return to "all four races as playable" in the future (his words). In the meantime, we want to increase customization and focus on what's important to DA3.

[zyntifox]

Terrorize69 wrote...

BW have already stated that in the future they do play on using all 4 races, but not for DA3.

Here comes logic (the bane of BSN whiners). Clearly they are fully aware people want to play different races, and have stated that a future game will use them all. But for now, no. Clearly there is a reason for excluding other races in DA3 when they are fully prepared to use them in a future game.

They do listen, they are aware of the demands of the minority, they will cater to you, just not this time and have a reason they can't share with you just yet. As a compromise you are getting different backgrounds that will effect the story/game.

Bioware do listen, they do take note. But, they are not going to risk the integrity of their games story/plot IF other races would not fit the context of the story.

I would of thought a "good" solid/deeper plot/story is more important then a cosmetic aspect. If you believe otherwise then clearly the DA series is not for you, WoW is still taking players if racial decision above story is what you desire.

Or you know... it's PR talk. Not that it's a bad thing, i would expect them to do just that if i was a shareholder in EA.