3855 réponses à ce sujet

[Vandicus]

Cstaf wrote...

Terrorize69 wrote...

BW have already stated that in the future they do play on using all 4 races, but not for DA3.

Here comes logic (the bane of BSN whiners). Clearly they are fully aware people want to play different races, and have stated that a future game will use them all. But for now, no. Clearly there is a reason for excluding other races in DA3 when they are fully prepared to use them in a future game.

They do listen, they are aware of the demands of the minority, they will cater to you, just not this time and have a reason they can't share with you just yet. As a compromise you are getting different backgrounds that will effect the story/game.

Bioware do listen, they do take note. But, they are not going to risk the integrity of their games story/plot IF other races would not fit the context of the story.

I would of thought a "good" solid/deeper plot/story is more important then a cosmetic aspect. If you believe otherwise then clearly the DA series is not for you, WoW is still taking players if racial decision above story is what you desire.

Or you know... it's PR talk. Not that it's a bad thing, i would expect them to do just that if i was a shareholder in EA.

So why do you think its PR talk? Is it your stance that races are so resources consuming as to make them impossible to implement, or do you just have an axe to grind?

[Rawgrim]

If the developrs want to tell us a story, they should be in the movie business. It puts the player in the passanger seat. If they player is in the driver`s seat he influences the story as he goes through it. choices changes the ending and whatsnot.

With more and more choices being removed, and none of the choices affects the ending (Me3 and DA2), its more akin to a movie where the players get to decide wich lines the pre-made character says. Not very rpg.

[Morgora]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Discuss how this makes you feel here.

Be civil to one another.  Respect that other people have differing opinions, and this works both ways.  So if you LIKE this decision, respect that others are disappointed by it.

Rather than closing threads I'll try talking with posters whom I think are crossing the line.

If we are going to play a "Seeker" or "Inquisitor", then human makes sense since the Chantry was founded by humans.

[Herlonski]

Vandicus wrote...

David Gaider posted this in the original thread(which was locked when it was derailed into "what is a roleplaying game"). 


Yup, we're aware of that. Not every fantasy game has that, of course, but it's nice when it's available (and used appropriately as more than just an appearance variant, in my opinion). I think Mike said at the panel to not take this as an indication of where DA is headed in the future-- he said we intend to go return to "all four races as playable" in the future (his words). In the meantime, we want to increase customization and focus on what's important to DA3.

Ah! I had not read that. Thanks a lot!

[Shrinking Violet]

As long as there are plenty of customisation options available, I don't mind playing as a human one bit.

I could never connect with Dragon Age's elves or dwarves anyway.

[ianvillan]

Morgora wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Discuss how this makes you feel here.

Be civil to one another.  Respect that other people have differing opinions, and this works both ways.  So if you LIKE this decision, respect that others are disappointed by it.

Rather than closing threads I'll try talking with posters whom I think are crossing the line.

If we are going to play a "Seeker" or "Inquisitor", then human makes sense since the Chantry was founded by humans.

How does a mage make sense when the chantry view them as cursed and want them all locked up.

Modifié par ianvillan, 23 octobre 2012 - 03:32 .

[ianvillan]

Trista Faux Hawke wrote...

Hey everyone,

I posted a poll regarding the human protag thing. I'm just curious about the numbers. It's hard to keep track of thread replies that say, "I don't care" or "I am disappoint!"  So there you go if you're curious too! 

I appreciate you doing this but you are just going to get that we are a vocal minority or that your poll is biased.

[zyntifox]

Vandicus wrote...

Cstaf wrote...

Terrorize69 wrote...

BW have already stated that in the future they do play on using all 4 races, but not for DA3.

Here comes logic (the bane of BSN whiners). Clearly they are fully aware people want to play different races, and have stated that a future game will use them all. But for now, no. Clearly there is a reason for excluding other races in DA3 when they are fully prepared to use them in a future game.

They do listen, they are aware of the demands of the minority, they will cater to you, just not this time and have a reason they can't share with you just yet. As a compromise you are getting different backgrounds that will effect the story/game.

Bioware do listen, they do take note. But, they are not going to risk the integrity of their games story/plot IF other races would not fit the context of the story.

I would of thought a "good" solid/deeper plot/story is more important then a cosmetic aspect. If you believe otherwise then clearly the DA series is not for you, WoW is still taking players if racial decision above story is what you desire.

Or you know... it's PR talk. Not that it's a bad thing, i would expect them to do just that if i was a shareholder in EA.

So why do you think its PR talk? Is it your stance that races are so resources consuming as to make them impossible to implement, or do you just have an axe to grind?

It's defintely not the latter and the former i have no data to support. It's just how a rational person working for a corporation works, or should work when presenting something that could be seen as a negative.

[tmp7704]

I've only checked the dev responses in this thread, but didn't see this question asked/addressed... so at the risk of repeating something said already:

just wondering -- how do you BioWare folks reconcile in your heads this fixed race business with the public statements you make how "customization is going to be bigger than Dragon Age Origins"? I mean, what is it that DA3 is going to allow to customize that DAO didn't, to not only sort-of 'even it out' with DA3 lacking option to customize what DAO allowed (in this case species, but it also includes stuff like ability to wield any sort of weapon/armour that DA2 got rid of) ... but to actually exceed the overall level of customization?

Modifié par tmp7704, 23 octobre 2012 - 03:44 .

[Allan Schumacher]

Cstaf wrote...

I don't usually agree with you Allan but i do respect you a lot. Why? Anyone having to sit for hours and read and answer forum posts as their job is clearly a better man than I.

This actually isn't a part of my job.  I'm here of my own volition.  The only time it is a part of my job is post-release and in that case, it's tech support forums.

[NedPepper]

xsamplexample wrote...

 Eeeeh, I feel like this is the first of many disappointing announcements about this game....

THIS is the real problem.  This mindset.  It's just....it's like a petulant spoiled child screaming because she got to eat icecream last time she went to the park and now she has to have a cookie.  I WANT ICE CREAM!  I HATE COOKIEES! ICECREAM!!!   NOW! NOW!  I'M NEVER GOING TO THE PARK AGAIN!!! WAAAAAAAHHH!  NO!  ICEEEEECREEEAAAAAM!

Now Laidlaw is tweeting like the mother saying..."Well, honey, maybe next time we come to park there will be icecream."

NOOOOO!  WANT NOW!   SHUT UP!!!   ICEEEECREAAAAAM!



Worst. Fanbase. In. The. World.  Seriously.

[zyntifox]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Cstaf wrote...

I don't usually agree with you Allan but i do respect you a lot. Why? Anyone having to sit for hours and read and answer forum posts as their job is clearly a better man than I.

This actually isn't a part of my job.  I'm here of my own volition.  The only time it is a part of my job is post-release and in that case, it's tech support forums.

Ah, ok. Well i respect masochists as well.

Edit: By the way Allan, are we suppose to answer posts, such as the one above me, which can be seen as uncivil or just ignore him/her?

Modifié par Cstaf, 23 octobre 2012 - 03:55 .

[Vandicus]

Cstaf wrote...

Vandicus wrote...

Cstaf wrote...

Terrorize69 wrote...

BW have already stated that in the future they do play on using all 4 races, but not for DA3.

Here comes logic (the bane of BSN whiners). Clearly they are fully aware people want to play different races, and have stated that a future game will use them all. But for now, no. Clearly there is a reason for excluding other races in DA3 when they are fully prepared to use them in a future game.

They do listen, they are aware of the demands of the minority, they will cater to you, just not this time and have a reason they can't share with you just yet. As a compromise you are getting different backgrounds that will effect the story/game.

Bioware do listen, they do take note. But, they are not going to risk the integrity of their games story/plot IF other races would not fit the context of the story.

I would of thought a "good" solid/deeper plot/story is more important then a cosmetic aspect. If you believe otherwise then clearly the DA series is not for you, WoW is still taking players if racial decision above story is what you desire.

Or you know... it's PR talk. Not that it's a bad thing, i would expect them to do just that if i was a shareholder in EA.

So why do you think its PR talk? Is it your stance that races are so resources consuming as to make them impossible to implement, or do you just have an axe to grind?

It's defintely not the latter and the former i have no data to support. It's just how a rational person working for a corporation works, or should work when presenting something that could be seen as a negative.

While some businesses do make that analysis(although its less common than you'd think, and Bioware fans hold Bioware to an almost absurd degree of accountability, oftentimes exaggerating their reactions or treating "maybes" and "ifs" as guarentees), it appears Bioware has not. If they did, they could've taken the same tact with voiced-protagonist and wheel vs list. Instead we have been told outright that a voiced PC is here to stay and they intend to continue using the wheel.

[zyntifox]

Vandicus wrote...

While some businesses do make that analysis(although its less common than you'd think, and Bioware fans hold Bioware to an almost absurd degree of accountability, oftentimes exaggerating their reactions or treating "maybes" and "ifs" as guarentees), it appears Bioware has not. If they did, they could've taken the same tact with voiced-protagonist and wheel vs list. Instead we have been told outright that a voiced PC is here to stay and they intend to continue using the wheel.

Ouch, you just dismissed the most frequent used assumption in macroeconomic analysis. Luckily my thesis supervisor did not do that when i wrote my thesis in master in financial econometrics! :happy:

Modifié par Cstaf, 23 octobre 2012 - 04:00 .

[Uccio]

Terrorize69 wrote...

BW have already stated that in the future they do play on using all 4 races, but not for DA3.

Here comes logic (the bane of BSN whiners). Clearly they are fully aware people want to play different races, and have stated that a future game will use them all. But for now, no. Clearly there is a reason for excluding other races in DA3 when they are fully prepared to use them in a future game.

 

Thats cool, my 50eur will wait for those future games then. For this DA3 I will invest about 20 - 15 eur.

Modifié par Ukki, 23 octobre 2012 - 04:01 .

[Vandicus]

Cstaf wrote...

Vandicus wrote...

While some businesses do make that analysis(although its less common than you'd think, and Bioware fans hold Bioware to an almost absurd degree of accountability, oftentimes exaggerating their reactions or treating "maybes" and "ifs" as guarentees), it appears Bioware has not. If they did, they could've taken the same tact with voiced-protagonist and wheel vs list. Instead we have been told outright that a voiced PC is here to stay and they intend to continue using the wheel.

Ouch, you just dismissed the most frequent used assumption in macroeconomic analysis. Luckily my thesis supervisor did not do that when i wrote my thesis in master of financial econometrics! :happy:

That's economics for you, less applicable than we're lead to believe. 

But more seriously, its really two different premises. Spinning is a different thing than outright lying. 

[hoorayforicecream]

Trista Faux Hawke wrote...

ianvillan wrote...

Trista Faux Hawke wrote...

Hey everyone,

I posted a poll regarding the human protag thing. I'm just curious about the numbers. It's hard to keep track of thread replies that say, "I don't care" or "I am disappoint!"  So there you go if you're curious too! 

I appreciate you doing this but you are just going to get that we are a vocal minority or that your poll is biased.

Well, so far, I'm not seeing it as a vocal minority, per say. You have almost 36% who are disappointed the protag is human, next to 64% who are not. That's over a third of those who are dissatisfied (so far).

What do you think the word "minority" means?

Besides, the poll is missing crucial context. The choice isn't "make racial choices available or don't make racial choices available". The choice is "make racial choices available or spend that time building more content into the main game instead".

[Salaya]

Surely the Dragon Age dev team is not lazy. Hell, even Bioware games I don't like as DA2 shows tons of refined work on it; but surely, with all due respect, taking the decision to follow the "only human protagonist" path is easily portaryed as a lazy one.

Not only for the obvious reasons, but for the precedents. You told us that Hawke was human because you were going to make a detailed, complex character history -wich, in the end, was completely false.

I think DA fans have perefectly reasonable reasons to be worried.

[Vandicus]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Trista Faux Hawke wrote...

ianvillan wrote...

Trista Faux Hawke wrote...

Hey everyone,

I posted a poll regarding the human protag thing. I'm just curious about the numbers. It's hard to keep track of thread replies that say, "I don't care" or "I am disappoint!"  So there you go if you're curious too! 

I appreciate you doing this but you are just going to get that we are a vocal minority or that your poll is biased.

Well, so far, I'm not seeing it as a vocal minority, per say. You have almost 36% who are disappointed the protag is human, next to 64% who are not. That's over a third of those who are dissatisfied (so far).

What do you think the word "minority" means?

Besides, the poll is missing crucial context. The choice isn't "make racial choices available or don't make racial choices available". The choice is "make racial choices available or spend that time building more content into the main game instead".

Not to mention its a sample of the non-representative population of the BSN which is self-selecting to boot.

[Dagr88]

Ukki wrote...

Terrorize69 wrote...

BW have already stated that in the future they do play on using all 4 races, but not for DA3.

Here comes logic (the bane of BSN whiners). Clearly they are fully aware people want to play different races, and have stated that a future game will use them all. But for now, no. Clearly there is a reason for excluding other races in DA3 when they are fully prepared to use them in a future game.

 

Thats cool, my 50eur will wait for those future games then. For this DA3 I will invest about 20 - 15 eur.

... We'll see.

[byarru]

I'm disappointed. One of the reasons I love fantasy RPG games is the choice of race. It's important and it was handled pretty well in Origins. In fact I played every background but human - I'm sick of humans, it's plain boring, I want to see how other races live and develop. Humans? I'm a human, why would I be interested in being a human in a game? I am human every day. I want to try to be a gnome or an elf, kossith. Geeze, is it a Fantasy RPG or what?
Never mind though, it's not likely I'll buy this game anyway. DA2 and ME3 were enough for me...

[hoorayforicecream]

Salaya wrote...

Surely the Dragon Age dev team is not lazy. Hell, even Bioware games I don't like as DA2 shows tons of refined work on it; but surely, with all due respect, taking the decision to follow the "only human protagonist" path is easily portaryed as a lazy one.

Not only for the obvious reasons, but for the precedents. You told us that Hawke was human because you were going to make a detailed, complex character history -wich, in the end, was completely false.

I think DA fans have perefectly reasonable reasons to be worried.

You may not have liked it, but the fact that Hawke was human allowed Hawke to have siblings, a mother, and a family estate in Kirkwall. I enjoyed the story elements involved with Gamlen, Charade, Carver, Bethany and Leandra. That wouldn't have been possible without enforcing Hawke's humanity.