3855 réponses à ce sujet

[mesmerizedish]

ArinTheirinCousland wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

To go on a small tangent:
This is why we can't just say "Well this feature shouldn't be very hard to implement" because frankly, there's always a lot of features that "shouldn't be very hard to implement."  Hundreds if not thousands of them.  So while you may see "This would only take a couple of days at the most!" for one particular feature, we see "Yeah, but the other hundreds of other things were in the same boat.  How do we choose which one to do!?"


So to anyone that says "You could still work the story around an elf and a dwarf if you wanted" I say you are absolutely right.  We could do it.  However, that doesn't make it easy to do and doesn't fully appreciate how much time it could take within the context of the story or a host of other types of influences that could play a part.  Eventually it comes to a point of "What are we willing to sacrifice in order to do it?"

I wonder what was sacrificed in order to incorporate MP.

I shouldn't say what I want to say while Allan is still watching the thread.

[Lennard Testarossa]

Rawgrim wrote...

Playing Human in Origins was fun. Simply because I could play different humans, and the characters felt like they were my own. Hawke never made me feel that way at all. Nor did Sheparn, or Geralt for that matter.

Given that Geralt has lots of books dedicated to him, I severly doubt he's supposed to feel like your own.

[Master Shiori]

Rawgrim wrote...

So what you are saying is that there are no way it would ever be possible for an elf or a dwarf, to somehow gain wealth or a title in the Free Marches? Just because the Warden was an annomaly.

To gain wealth? Sure, that would be possible, especially for a dwarf.

To get a title? No, because those require you to be of a certain social standing (read: a noble). Even Hawke wouldn't be able to get as far as he/she did with just wealth. Being a descendant of one of the oldest noble families in Kirkwall is largely responsible for his/her meteoric rise.

[Scott Sion]

ArinTheirinCousland wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

To go on a small tangent:
This is why we can't just say "Well this feature shouldn't be very hard to implement" because frankly, there's always a lot of features that "shouldn't be very hard to implement."  Hundreds if not thousands of them.  So while you may see "This would only take a couple of days at the most!" for one particular feature, we see "Yeah, but the other hundreds of other things were in the same boat.  How do we choose which one to do!?"


So to anyone that says "You could still work the story around an elf and a dwarf if you wanted" I say you are absolutely right.  We could do it.  However, that doesn't make it easy to do and doesn't fully appreciate how much time it could take within the context of the story or a host of other types of influences that could play a part.  Eventually it comes to a point of "What are we willing to sacrifice in order to do it?"

I wonder what was sacrificed in order to incorporate MP.

Are you talking about ME3 or Dragon Age? I'm pretty sure they didn't have to sacrifice much considering the maps were all recycled from the single player mode.

[Icinix]

Quite frankly I won't be happy until we can play through the entire game as a Marbari with the entire voiced dialogue as woofing.

[Rawgrim]

Lennard Testarossa wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Playing Human in Origins was fun. Simply because I could play different humans, and the characters felt like they were my own. Hawke never made me feel that way at all. Nor did Sheparn, or Geralt for that matter.

Given that Geralt has lots of books dedicated to him, I severly doubt he's supposed to feel like your own.

Quite true. Wich is also why nobody complained about not getting to play as an elf or a dwarf in those games.

[John Epler]

Icinix wrote...

Quite frankly I won't be happy until we can play through the entire game as a Marbari with the entire voiced dialogue as woofing.

I think you're barking up the wrong tree here.

[Rawgrim]

Master Shiori wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

So what you are saying is that there are no way it would ever be possible for an elf or a dwarf, to somehow gain wealth or a title in the Free Marches? Just because the Warden was an annomaly.

To gain wealth? Sure, that would be possible, especially for a dwarf.

To get a title? No, because those require you to be of a certain social standing (read: a noble). Even Hawke wouldn't be able to get as far as he/she did with just wealth. Being a descendant of one of the oldest noble families in Kirkwall is largely responsible for his/her meteoric rise.

Hawke got the title when he defeated the qun`ari threat. Elves and Dwarves can gain titles from doing simmilar things in the world of Thedas. it happened 2 times in DA:O, so based on that its a pretty safe bet to say it could, under the right circumstances, also happen in other parts of the world.

[Maclimes]

John Epler wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Quite frankly I won't be happy until we can play through the entire game as a Marbari with the entire voiced dialogue as woofing.

I think you're barking up the wrong tree here.

Maclimes approves [+10]

[Rawgrim]

John Epler wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Quite frankly I won't be happy until we can play through the entire game as a Marbari with the entire voiced dialogue as woofing.

I think you're barking up the wrong tree here.

Don`t be so ruff on him.

[Allan Schumacher]

ArinTheirinCousland wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

To go on a small tangent:
This is why we can't just say "Well this feature shouldn't be very hard to implement" because frankly, there's always a lot of features that "shouldn't be very hard to implement."  Hundreds if not thousands of them.  So while you may see "This would only take a couple of days at the most!" for one particular feature, we see "Yeah, but the other hundreds of other things were in the same boat.  How do we choose which one to do!?"


So to anyone that says "You could still work the story around an elf and a dwarf if you wanted" I say you are absolutely right.  We could do it.  However, that doesn't make it easy to do and doesn't fully appreciate how much time it could take within the context of the story or a host of other types of influences that could play a part.  Eventually it comes to a point of "What are we willing to sacrifice in order to do it?"

I wonder what was sacrificed in order to incorporate MP.

That's where things become even muddier.  Something like multiplayer opens up additional potential revenue streams, so for some features it's possible to receive more funding than had that feature not been one put forth.  The budget for any project is going to be determined based upon the the amount of costs it will take to deliver the project by a time, based on the potential revenues we can expect to make.


So while coming up with our plan, we could have game X and lets say it has a budget of $10 million for some easy math.  We expect to make $20 million with this game.  Now, if we also want to do Feature Y in our project and (based on whatever data we have to make our case) we can show that it'll get us an extra $100 million in revenue, and we expect it to cost $20 million to implement, then the idea of allocating $30 million instead of $10 million (200% more budget) is almost a trivial one.

Now these numbers are pulled out of my rear end just to illustrate the situation, but I am hoping it shows that determining how time and money is allocated, and where it should go, is not a particularly simple thing to do.

[Vandicus]

Rawgrim wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

So what you are saying is that there are no way it would ever be possible for an elf or a dwarf, to somehow gain wealth or a title in the Free Marches? Just because the Warden was an annomaly.

To gain wealth? Sure, that would be possible, especially for a dwarf.

To get a title? No, because those require you to be of a certain social standing (read: a noble). Even Hawke wouldn't be able to get as far as he/she did with just wealth. Being a descendant of one of the oldest noble families in Kirkwall is largely responsible for his/her meteoric rise.

Hawke got the title when he defeated the qun`ari threat. Elves and Dwarves can gain titles from doing simmilar things in the world of Thedas. it happened 2 times in DA:O, so based on that its a pretty safe bet to say it could, under the right circumstances, also happen in other parts of the world.

Fereldan is not "The World of Thedas". It is one country in the World of Thedas, and known for being relatively benign towards elves and dwarves by the world's standards. Never in Orlais for instance, and rather unlikely in Kirkwall I'd surmrise.

Ever wonder why we never hear about an elven or dwarven noble in Kirkwall, or a previous elven or dwarven Champion?

Modifié par Vandicus, 23 octobre 2012 - 08:51 .

[GloriousDame]

plnero wrote...

ArinTheirinCousland wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

To go on a small tangent:
This is why we can't just say "Well this feature shouldn't be very hard to implement" because frankly, there's always a lot of features that "shouldn't be very hard to implement."  Hundreds if not thousands of them.  So while you may see "This would only take a couple of days at the most!" for one particular feature, we see "Yeah, but the other hundreds of other things were in the same boat.  How do we choose which one to do!?"


So to anyone that says "You could still work the story around an elf and a dwarf if you wanted" I say you are absolutely right.  We could do it.  However, that doesn't make it easy to do and doesn't fully appreciate how much time it could take within the context of the story or a host of other types of influences that could play a part.  Eventually it comes to a point of "What are we willing to sacrifice in order to do it?"

I wonder what was sacrificed in order to incorporate MP.

Are you talking about ME3 or Dragon Age? I'm pretty sure they didn't have to sacrifice much considering the maps were all recycled from the single player mode.

Ah, I should fix that in my original post, sorry...  I meant in DA.

[The Elder King]

Rawgrim wrote...





Hawke got the title when he defeated the qun`ari threat. Elves and Dwarves can gain titles from doing simmilar things in the world of Thedas. it happened 2 times in DA:O, so based on that its a pretty safe bet to say it could, under the right circumstances, also happen in other parts of the world.

Because happening in Ferelden=happening everywhere in Thedas. Without considering that Wardens are considered by the fact that they're Wardens, and not by their race or social status.

Modifié par hhh89, 23 octobre 2012 - 08:52 .

[Cutlass Jack]

Icinix wrote...

Quite frankly I won't be happy until we can play through the entire game as a Marbari with the entire voiced dialogue as woofing.

Only if we get Ser Pounce-A-Lot as a potential companion and LI. And of course cameos of the Warden's and Hawke's dogs.

And of course we must have options for Sarcastic, Diplomatic and Agressive barking.

[ianvillan]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Quite frankly I won't be happy until we can play through the entire game as a Marbari with the entire voiced dialogue as woofing.

Only if we get Ser Pounce-A-Lot as a potential companion and LI. And of course cameos of the Warden's and Hawke's dogs.

And of course we must have options for Sarcastic, Diplomatic and Agressive barking.

They better bring a huge choice of warpaint or else i am not buying it.

[mousestalker]

ArinTheirinCousland wrote...
I wonder what was sacrificed in order to incorporate MP in DAIII.

I heard they sacrificed three whole chickens and a six pack of beer to Fen'Harel for permission.

[Lennard Testarossa]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Quite frankly I won't be happy until we can play through the entire game as a Marbari with the entire voiced dialogue as woofing.

Only if we get Ser Pounce-A-Lot as a potential companion and LI. And of course cameos of the Warden's and Hawke's dogs.

And of course we must have options for Sarcastic, Diplomatic and Agressive barking.

I think Morrigan would make a great LI for a Mabari with her being able to shapeshift and stuff. I remember the Warden's Mabari bringing her presents. There was definitely something going on there.

[Rawgrim]

Vandicus wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

So what you are saying is that there are no way it would ever be possible for an elf or a dwarf, to somehow gain wealth or a title in the Free Marches? Just because the Warden was an annomaly.

To gain wealth? Sure, that would be possible, especially for a dwarf.

To get a title? No, because those require you to be of a certain social standing (read: a noble). Even Hawke wouldn't be able to get as far as he/she did with just wealth. Being a descendant of one of the oldest noble families in Kirkwall is largely responsible for his/her meteoric rise.

Hawke got the title when he defeated the qun`ari threat. Elves and Dwarves can gain titles from doing simmilar things in the world of Thedas. it happened 2 times in DA:O, so based on that its a pretty safe bet to say it could, under the right circumstances, also happen in other parts of the world.

Fereldan is not "The World of Thedas". It is one country in the World of Thedas, and known for being relatively benign towards elves and dwarves by the world's standards. Never in Orlais for instance, and rather unlikely in Kirkwall I'd surmrise.

Ever wonder why we never hear about an elven or dwarven noble in Kirkwall, or a previous elven or dwarven Champion?

I know Ferelden is only 1 country. I said it happened in Ferelden, and that means it can happen in the world of Thedas. Kind of like if Russia invents a machine that can make you time travel. That means it happens in our world.

Nope. Never wondered about that either. Doesn`t mean its impossible for it to never be one, or that it never has been one there. I never heard of a Riviani knight either. Does that mean the place has never had a knight?

[GloriousDame]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

ArinTheirinCousland wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

To go on a small tangent:
This is why we can't just say "Well this feature shouldn't be very hard to implement" because frankly, there's always a lot of features that "shouldn't be very hard to implement."  Hundreds if not thousands of them.  So while you may see "This would only take a couple of days at the most!" for one particular feature, we see "Yeah, but the other hundreds of other things were in the same boat.  How do we choose which one to do!?"


So to anyone that says "You could still work the story around an elf and a dwarf if you wanted" I say you are absolutely right.  We could do it.  However, that doesn't make it easy to do and doesn't fully appreciate how much time it could take within the context of the story or a host of other types of influences that could play a part.  Eventually it comes to a point of "What are we willing to sacrifice in order to do it?"

I wonder what was sacrificed in order to incorporate MP.

That's where things become even muddier.  Something like multiplayer opens up additional potential revenue streams, so for some features it's possible to receive more funding than had that feature not been one put forth.  The budget for any project is going to be determined based upon the the amount of costs it will take to deliver the project by a time, based on the potential revenues we can expect to make.


So while coming up with our plan, we could have game X and lets say it has a budget of $10 million for some easy math.  We expect to make $20 million with this game.  Now, if we also want to do Feature Y in our project and (based on whatever data we have to make our case) we can show that it'll get us an extra $100 million in revenue, and we expect it to cost $20 million to implement, then the idea of allocating $30 million instead of $10 million (200% more budget) is almost a trivial one.

Now these numbers are pulled out of my rear end just to illustrate the situation, but I am hoping it shows that determining how time and money is allocated, and where it should go, is not a particularly simple thing to do.

Thanks for answering. Even if part of me still stubbornly wants certain things incorporated in place of MP, I understand the reasoning and appreciate your honesty.



edit:

mousestalker wrote...

I heard they sacrificed three whole chickens and a six pack of beer to Fen'Harel for permission.

30d chickens, to be specific, if a post-it on one of the pics on the twitter updates thead says anything.

Modifié par ArinTheirinCousland, 23 octobre 2012 - 09:00 .

[LobselVith8]

Vandicus wrote...

Fereldan is not "The World of Thedas". It is one country in the World of Thedas, and known for being relatively benign towards elves and dwarves by the world's standards. Never in Orlais for instance, and rather unlikely in Kirkwall I'd surmrise.

Ever wonder why we never hear about an elven or dwarven noble in Kirkwall, or a previous elven or dwarven Champion? 

I realize that an elven or dwarven Hawke wasn't possible because of the time restraint in making the game, but I don't see why an elven or dwarven Hawke wouldn't be made "Champion of Kirkwall" if he (or she) defeated the Arishok and rescued the city from the Qunari. It's not as though there is a precedent for an apostate to become the Champion, after all.

[Cutlass Jack]

Lennard Testarossa wrote...

I think Morrigan would make a great LI for a Mabari with her being able to shapeshift and stuff. I remember the Warden's Mabari bringing her presents. There was definitely something going on there.

I'm not sure the world is ready for Old God Puppies.

[Nerevar-as]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

ArinTheirinCousland wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

To go on a small tangent:
This is why we can't just say "Well this feature shouldn't be very hard to implement" because frankly, there's always a lot of features that "shouldn't be very hard to implement."  Hundreds if not thousands of them.  So while you may see "This would only take a couple of days at the most!" for one particular feature, we see "Yeah, but the other hundreds of other things were in the same boat.  How do we choose which one to do!?"


So to anyone that says "You could still work the story around an elf and a dwarf if you wanted" I say you are absolutely right.  We could do it.  However, that doesn't make it easy to do and doesn't fully appreciate how much time it could take within the context of the story or a host of other types of influences that could play a part.  Eventually it comes to a point of "What are we willing to sacrifice in order to do it?"

I wonder what was sacrificed in order to incorporate MP.

That's where things become even muddier.  Something like multiplayer opens up additional potential revenue streams, so for some features it's possible to receive more funding than had that feature not been one put forth.  The budget for any project is going to be determined based upon the the amount of costs it will take to deliver the project by a time, based on the potential revenues we can expect to make.


So while coming up with our plan, we could have game X and lets say it has a budget of $10 million for some easy math.  We expect to make $20 million with this game.  Now, if we also want to do Feature Y in our project and (based on whatever data we have to make our case) we can show that it'll get us an extra $100 million in revenue, and we expect it to cost $20 million to implement, then the idea of allocating $30 million instead of $10 million (200% more budget) is almost a trivial one.

Now these numbers are pulled out of my rear end just to illustrate the situation, but I am hoping it shows that determining how time and money is allocated, and where it should go, is not a particularly simple thing to do.

Is MP in  non shooter games that popular, or someone decided if it is popular in a kind of game then it´ll also work
in any other?

I´m afraid if DA3 has any cut corners (and we already have race) and MP, there´s going to be quite a ****storm.

And have you thought of making expansions/DLCs involving PCs of other races to explore their lore, rather than have a (problably) outsider human do it?

[Rawgrim]

hhh89 wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...





Hawke got the title when he defeated the qun`ari threat. Elves and Dwarves can gain titles from doing simmilar things in the world of Thedas. it happened 2 times in DA:O, so based on that its a pretty safe bet to say it could, under the right circumstances, also happen in other parts of the world.

Because happening in Ferelden=happening everywhere in Thedas. Without considering that Wardens are considered by the fact that they're Wardens, and not by their race or social status.

Because its happening in Ferelden = its also possible that it CAN happen in other countries too. Too far fetched for you?

Are you saying that if my dwarf hadn`t been a warden, Arl Eamon wouldn`t have named him Champion of Redcliffe after saving Redcliffe, himself, and his son? The deciding factor was the fact that he just happened to be a warden?

[Icinix]

Lennard Testarossa wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Quite frankly I won't be happy until we can play through the entire game as a Marbari with the entire voiced dialogue as woofing.

Only if we get Ser Pounce-A-Lot as a potential companion and LI. And of course cameos of the Warden's and Hawke's dogs.

And of course we must have options for Sarcastic, Diplomatic and Agressive barking.

I think Morrigan would make a great LI for a Mabari with her being able to shapeshift and stuff. I remember the Warden's Mabari bringing her presents. There was definitely something going on there.

Haha! In one playthrough - I did give Morrigan the dog bones gifts and slobbery cake. DESTINY!