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Dragon Age 3 to use a human protagonist


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#2051
DominantDjDark

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Jerrybnsn wrote...

I still find it strange that they want to keep Dragon Age on the Mass Effect formula. The original Dragon Age formula was great and it stood on its own, it didn't have to be like Mass Effect at all. There is still a demand out there for those games like DA:Origins, if only someone would make them.  If they wanted to make a medieval fantasy like ME, I wish they would have made a new IP instead of appropriating Dragon Age.


mmhm, I did enjoy the style of DA:O, it reminded me of Star Wars: KotoR, then DA2 came along, and it became Mass effect style thing, It's not too bad, But hey, the original style was better. :happy:

#2052
JWvonGoethe

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Allan Schumacher wrote...

It's because the change would be a bit more than just the references. In that there may be human focused dialogue that is still heard by ALL characters, regardless of background. I can think of a plot where this will probably be more prevalent, but unfortunately I don't know full details of it and even if I did it's not my place to discuss it anyways. Sucks I know, but hopefully it can provide some context for why it's not just about references to the background.


Thanks for the response.

I think I now understand what you're getting at. The amount of systemic overhaul the game would require in order to fully respect the PC's race at every turn would be, above and beyond background differences, too great.

It's good to see that the problem here seems to stem directly from having very high standards, that you do not want elves or dwarfs to function merely as different player skins, but that you would need to see their races fully refected in, and respected by, the story at every turn - which wasn't really the case in DA:O.

I wonder, though, after what was said at Pax East, it seems there was the same concern with making sure blood mages were similarly fully integrated into the story. But in this case you have decided to go ahead with making the necessary modifications to fully support the choice of being a blood mage. It's interesting that a specialisation took priority over playing as a dwarf or an elf.

Unless what it means is that blood mage actually is one of the background choices...

Modifié par JWvonGoethe, 24 octobre 2012 - 12:18 .


#2053
Huntress

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Nerevar-as wrote...

Let´s say an elf goes to the Deep Roads and comes back rich. Just who is going to stop his/her rise?


Anyone who sees elves as second class citizen! this elf could be framed as thief  by any rich humans  and who is going to say to  rich Humans you are wrong?  the guards? the guard captain? LOL. wake up and smell the manure.:wizard:

Modifié par Huntress, 24 octobre 2012 - 12:10 .


#2054
JWvonGoethe

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[continued from two posts up]

...or maybe I'm just speculating a little too much. I'm in detective mode right now.

Modifié par JWvonGoethe, 24 octobre 2012 - 12:11 .


#2055
Vandicus

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Huntress wrote...

Nerevar-as wrote...

Let´s say an elf goes to the Deep Roads and comes back rich. Just who is going to stop his/her rise?


Anyone who sees elves as second class citizen! this elf could be
framed as thief  by any rich humans  and who is going to say to  rich
Humans you are wrong?  the guards? their captain? LOL. wake up and smell the manure.:wizard:



Maybe they'll treat the PC with all the respect that the rich elven Merchant from Act I gets.

#2056
DominantDjDark

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EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

81 pages. Holy ****.


You sir, officially upgraded it to page 82.


Image IPB

#2057
Huntress

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Vandicus wrote...

Huntress wrote...

Nerevar-as wrote...

Let´s say an elf goes to the Deep Roads and comes back rich. Just who is going to stop his/her rise?


Anyone who sees elves as second class citizen! this elf could be
framed as thief  by any rich humans  and who is going to say to  rich
Humans you are wrong?  the guards? their captain? LOL. wake up and smell the manure.:wizard:



Maybe they'll treat the PC with all the respect that the rich elven Merchant from Act I gets.


Maybe mages become Gods and elves rules the lands of Thedas, tevinter become the capital for the new qunari divine.:ph34r:

#2058
EpicBoot2daFace

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DominantDjDark wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

81 pages. Holy ****.


You sir, officially upgraded it to page 82.


Image IPB

Image IPB

If you guys get to 100 pages, I'll come back.

#2059
silentassassin264

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Huntress wrote...

Nerevar-as wrote...

Let´s say an elf goes to the Deep Roads and comes back rich. Just who is going to stop his/her rise?


Anyone who sees elves as second class citizen! this elf could be framed as thief  by any rich humans  and who is going to say to  rich Humans you are wrong?  the guards? the guard captain? LOL. wake up and smell the manure.:wizard:


Aveline is the Captain.  You know the Captain who is your buddy.  Yeah, I don't think the thief card is gonna work.

#2060
Heimdall

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Faerunner wrote...

If they were planning on making Andrastian human nobility central to the story's setting, they should have thought of that when they made mages the Untouchables of Andrastian human society and the said Untouchability of mages the central conflict of DA2.

Mages are hated just as much, if not more so than people of other races. If the story can be tweaked so a human mage can rise through the ranks "if careful," there's no reason the same amount of effort couldn't work for other races. As other people on this thread have pointed out, dwarves and elves have lived successfully in Hightown given the right circumstances and outside support. As others have pointed out, dwarves are not considered the dregs of human society the way elves are and so should have no problem at least living in Hoity-Toity Town, even if they aren't invited to parties.

I personally say that a simple throwaway line about the elves... I don't know, making up a "reclusive" or "invalid" human owner while they pretend to live in the mansion as servants or asking their best friend Aveline (the Captain of the Guard) and Varric (who has connections underground) to keep them safe from hate crimes would suffice. (Aveline and Varric are basically the two initial companions you can't get rid of at that time.) Heck, the three year time skip following Act 1 would work for an elf the way it didn't for a human as we can skip the immediate scandel and go straight to the cooldown. Have Varric say words to the effect of, "After three years, the local nobility finally adjusted to the idea of having an elf in their midst, though the Champion still had to deal with the occasional brick through the window."

Little tweaks in the story can be made to work for mages? They can be made to help other races.

The tension between mages desiring a more free existence and templars trying to contain them was the central conflict, not their social undesirability.  Though at any rate, it was nobility that made Hawke's rise plausible as a mage.

By careful, I was referring to Hawke being put into situations in which their magical abilities weren't blatantly on display in the streets.  The two have very little to do with each other and are not comparable so I'm not sure where you're driving at.  We know that noblility can hide magical talent and maintain their status, a little tweaking to the current story for the mage would do the trick.  Mages are feared and some may consider them inhuman, but elves are veiwed as inferior on every count and unlike mages there is no precidence for elf nobility in a human city.  As for dwarves, to be honest they don't even seem to exist on the same social radar.  Humans don't seem to much care about them one way or the other.  A dwarf rising to live in High Town as a wealthy individual such as a member of the Merchant's Guild isn't out of the question, I never said it was.

Maybe, nothings entirely impossible.  But again, you'd have to introduce a totally new plot for it and frankly I doubt the human nobles would ever adapt.  If Bioware differentiated the playthroughs between races to this degree, believe me, I'd be overjoyed.  It certainly is not a small tweak, as would be required to make a mage work, however.  It requires an entirely different story to be written.

I'm not saying that the story of DA2 couldn't have been written to accomodate other species, I'm just saying that the one we got was tailored specifically to a human in such a way that a dwarf or an elf would require a racially differentiated storyline the likes of which Bioware has never created.

Modifié par Lord Aesir, 24 octobre 2012 - 12:45 .


#2061
DominantDjDark

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EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

DominantDjDark wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

81 pages. Holy ****.


You sir, officially upgraded it to page 82.


Image IPB

Image IPB

If you guys get to 100 pages, I'll come back.


https://encrypted-tb...NCptk1W7Z3A9j3w

#2062
Brohammed

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It makes me not want to play the game. Race selection was the best part of the good Dragon Age.

Most likely means that we will have voiced PC and the terribad DA2 dialogue wheel to boot.

"Booooooooo"

#2063
tmp7704

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Huntress wrote...

Nerevar-as wrote...

Let´s say an elf goes to the Deep Roads and comes back rich. Just who is going to stop his/her rise?


Anyone who sees elves as second class citizen! this elf could be framed as thief  by any rich humans  and who is going to say to  rich Humans you are wrong?  the guards? the guard captain? LOL. wake up and smell the manure.:wizard:

You mean the guard captain who just happens to be long time friend of said elf, and who acquired that position in no small part thanks to said elf?

I'd say it's more likely than you think. Image IPB

#2064
DominantDjDark

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Brohammed wrote...

It makes me not want to play the game. Race selection was the best part of the good Dragon Age.

Most likely means that we will have voiced PC and the terribad DA2 dialogue wheel to boot.

"Booooooooo"


mmhm, I wouldn't say it was the "best" part of the entire game, but it added a nice bit of choice, I mainly played a human noble, but I had a couple of dwarves / elves. Looks like we'll just have to adapt.

#2065
DominantDjDark

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tmp7704 wrote...

Huntress wrote...

Nerevar-as wrote...

Let´s say an elf goes to the Deep Roads and comes back rich. Just who is going to stop his/her rise?


Anyone who sees elves as second class citizen! this elf could be framed as thief  by any rich humans  and who is going to say to  rich Humans you are wrong?  the guards? the guard captain? LOL. wake up and smell the manure.:wizard:

You mean the guard captain who just happens to be long time friend of said elf, and who acquired that position in no small part thanks to said elf?

I'd say it's more likely than you think. Image IPB


https://encrypted-tb...hsh8ji8gYj-ahsw

#2066
Icinix

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Brohammed wrote...

It makes me not want to play the game. Race selection was the best part of the good Dragon Age.

Most likely means that we will have voiced PC and the terribad DA2 dialogue wheel to boot.

"Booooooooo"


This is more my issue with it than anything - the wheel and the voice.

Fortunately - there are ways around that - so its not a deal breaker.

#2067
DominantDjDark

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Icinix wrote...

Brohammed wrote...

It makes me not want to play the game. Race selection was the best part of the good Dragon Age.

Most likely means that we will have voiced PC and the terribad DA2 dialogue wheel to boot.

"Booooooooo"


This is more my issue with it than anything - the wheel and the voice.

Fortunately - there are ways around that - so its not a deal breaker.


mmhm,  I honestly don't mind voiced or unvoiced, but like I said..er, 20 pages ago, it's harder to try and adapt the features to suit another voiced MC of another race....that's alot more Voice acting needed, (unless everyone wants the exact same sounding elf that the dwarf sounds like.)

Once you go Voice...there's no going back....so to speak.

#2068
Guest_Rojahar_*

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How else is every elf you come across supposed to threaten you with violence and call you a racist shem before you've even said one word to them if the protagonist isn't human? That's a crucial bit of dialog and it would be far too expensive for a small little company like EA to write alternative greetings.

#2069
Brohammed

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Allan Schumacher wrote...
For those that feel this is a necessary component to "making the character theirs" I'm curious what peoples thoughts are to games like the Ultima ones, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Knights of the Old Republic, or even Planescape: Torment.


The Ultima series never had race options, KotoR never had race options, Jade Empire never had race options etc.

Try
to imagine a new Baulders Gate without race customization,  if you will. 

#2070
Palipride47

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tmp7704 wrote...

Huntress wrote...

Nerevar-as wrote...

Let´s say an elf goes to the Deep Roads and comes back rich. Just who is going to stop his/her rise?


Anyone who sees elves as second class citizen! this elf could be framed as thief  by any rich humans  and who is going to say to  rich Humans you are wrong?  the guards? the guard captain? LOL. wake up and smell the manure.:wizard:

You mean the guard captain who just happens to be long time friend of said elf, and who acquired that position in no small part thanks to said elf?

I'd say it's more likely than you think. Image IPB


haha, if you romance Merrill, doesn't Hawke get angry letters from nobles about her mucking up the neighborhood with her elfyness? 

You pretty much have to kill an Archdemon to get any respect, and sometimes, even that isn't enough.

I think I got called a knife-ear in Awkening once, and its like, dude.....I'm armed and TOOK DOWN A DRAGON, and I'm sleeping with the King of Ferelden, COME AT ME BRAH!!!! :devil:

Modifié par Palipride47, 24 octobre 2012 - 01:57 .


#2071
silentassassin264

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I didn't mind people calling me knife-ear. It let me know who to kill next.

#2072
TheJediSaint

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silentassassin264 wrote...

I didn't mind people calling me knife-ear. It let me know who to kill next.


Strange, I felt the same way about shem...

#2073
devSin

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John Epler wrote...

We've said all we're really planning on saying at this point about the fixed race protagonist. You're certainly welcome to continue to discuss why you'd like to have multiple races, but pointing to a poll of 153 people and saying 'Are you going to officially comment on this, BioWare?!?' isn't going to get you much traction.

*lengthy villain's exposition*

"No, you warrant no villain's exposition from me!"

#2074
MoMan313

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BBaahhh FFFFFF- nnooooooo xD

I love and BEING an elf. I don't wanna be a stinking freaking human :C

Because, I AM HUMAN. What's the fun in that? Pah!

But meh, to be fair... In my fandom I'm going to spout my daughter of Sebastian and My Hawke to DA3..

or is it going to be granddaughter? O_o How far along is this game separated from DA2?

But still :,C I wanted to be an ELF.

#2075
Teddie Sage

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MoMan313, it's set only a year or so after Dragon Age II (3 years after the mage vs templars final fight), a little bit after the Asunder novel.