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[Salaya]

Flurdt07 wrote...

Salaya wrote...

Weird things about castles

You know (for me anyways), the Art and the Combat was the best thing about DA2. I didnt mind either of those. Actually, Im very much in love with both

Yeah, I understand that DA2 general style is likable to other people. It's just... I really dislike it. Specially the animations. 

When we were still in the shadow about the race topic, I feared that BW kept the art direction; I'm not sure I'm able to play an elf with the DA2 design, that I found extremely disgusting.

Let's hope DA3 could reach some kind of deal with the two styles.

[Flurdt Vash]

Salaya wrote...

Flurdt07 wrote...

Salaya wrote...

Weird things about castles

You know (for me anyways), the Art and the Combat was the best thing about DA2. I didnt mind either of those. Actually, Im very much in love with both

Yeah, I understand that DA2 general style is likable to other people. It's just... I really dislike it. Specially the animations. 

When we were still in the shadow about the race topic, I feared that BW kept the art direction; I'm not sure I'm able to play an elf with the DA2 design, that I found extremely disgusting.

Let's hope DA3 could reach some kind of deal with the two styles.

Actually ... the Elves in DA2 I will agree with you on. I did NOT like the huge skull thing going on .... oddly though I noticed not all elves looked like that .. or at least not to the extreme that the Dalish and other back ground/NPC elves did .. like Fenris and Merril :bandit:l. They didnt seem to suffer from the SKULL explosion . Just an observation. Anyways, totaly agree with that

Modifié par Flurdt07, 24 octobre 2012 - 04:51 .

[Travie]

John Epler wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Quite frankly I won't be happy until we can play through the entire game as a Marbari with the entire voiced dialogue as woofing.

I think you're barking up the wrong tree here.

Do Ho ho ho 

[Sparrowhawke]

I'm extraordinarily late to this discussion. I had high hopes that I would get to play another race in DA3, and I can't help but feel a bit crestfallen by the news.

I think, however, that the dev contributors (Thank you as always for contributing to fan discussion) have a valuable point in saying that an elf Hawk would not have somehow made the character more palatable or interesting. A well written character is well written regardless of race. I will be the first to admit that I liked Hawke and managed to roleplay the character in my own way. People that didn't like Hawke would not have liked Hawke with pointy ears or a beard.

What concerns me more is that ME3 (different teams, I know) featured an absolutely massive reduction in roleplay. Reduced dialog choices had me livid. My Shepard had abandoned her military position in ME2 to do what the Alliance would not. I hated how she accepted her reinstatement without question, reflection or resistance. I greatly enjoyed, on the other hand, roleplaying my mage Hawk's struggle with Andrastian values and upbringing with the corruption of the institution in Kirkwall.

I think the decision to go with a human protagonist worries me, and it makes me wonder if I will be disappointed again. Can I say that Bioware has lost a certain amount of my confidence? Perhaps as a result of poor decisons in the past, but I refuse to criticize a game that hasn't been revealed in any meaningful way yet based on the disclosure of a single creative decision. I will say, however, that the writers will have to prove to me that a human protagonist is what they need to give me the freedom to create a character and participate in a meaningful and original story.

People need to give the writers the benefit of the doubt for the time being. Dragon Age has some of the best writing in the industry, and deserves some measure of trust. Going forward, the ball will be in their court.

Modifié par Sparrowhawke, 24 octobre 2012 - 09:09 .

[Todd23]

DA3. Has a bad start? You mean the downward slope didn't magicly disapeare? And no one agreed with me when I predicted it letting us down.

[Allan Schumacher]

DA3. Has a bad start? You mean the downward slope didn't magicly disapeare? And no one agreed with me when I predicted it letting us down.

Given this was the same as DA2, I don't see a slope here.

[Savber100]

Honestly the reason we love origins is because we love choice.

If Bioware can make up for the lack of origins then I'm all in.

Choices and Consequences Bioware Choices and Consequences.

[Icinix]

Savber100 wrote...

Honestly the reason we love origins is because we love choice.

If Bioware can make up for the lack of origins then I'm all in.

Choices and Consequences Bioware Choices and Consequences.

Pretty much this.

I can handle the dialogue wheel, I can handle a voiced protagonist, I can handle no race selection, I can even handle a more fixed character with their own character development without player input (ME3 Shepard for example) if the choice and consequence mechanic is bang on.

If that is done right and is weighty and doesn't exist in a bubble - almost everything else that bugs me I tend to forget about.

[Sparrowhawke]

Icinix wrote...

Savber100 wrote...

Honestly the reason we love origins is because we love choice.

If Bioware can make up for the lack of origins then I'm all in.

Choices and Consequences Bioware Choices and Consequences.

Pretty much this.

I can handle the dialogue wheel, I can handle a voiced protagonist, I can handle no race selection, I can even handle a more fixed character with their own character development without player input (ME3 Shepard for example) if the choice and consequence mechanic is bang on.

If that is done right and is weighty and doesn't exist in a bubble - almost everything else that bugs me I tend to forget about.

I agree 100%. I replayed DAII recently to compare it to ME3 in terms of dialog and choice. For all the flack it has recieved, DAII features a much greater roleplay experience than ME3. I really don't mind the dialog wheel. I think a dev in a prior thread made a strong argument that the investigate and a-tonal choice options ended up making it as nuanced as the silent dialog threads in origins (minus the coercion).

Modifié par Sparrowhawke, 24 octobre 2012 - 09:19 .

[99DP1982]

If DA3 will be able to pull off the story writing on the level of PS:T or even The Witcher 2, I will not even look at the limited protagonist choice. The problem I have is that the story writing went downhill since DA:O, so I do have concerns that this game will fall short, because it won't be neither a great sandbox experience nor memorable game from the point of storytelling and choices & consequences. It goes too far into action and cinematic experience with cutting a lot of vital elements of RPG genre that Bioware was famous for.

[Massa FX]

This works for me. The first time I played DA:O I went with elf. Subsequent playthroughs were all human. And of course Hawke. Humans as cannon makes good sense to me. Concentrate on human player characteristics and customization as opposed to covering all the bases and having a poor CAC.

[Rawgrim]

99DP1982 wrote...

If DA3 will be able to pull off the story writing on the level of PS:T or even The Witcher 2, I will not even look at the limited protagonist choice. The problem I have is that the story writing went downhill since DA:O, so I do have concerns that this game will fall short, because it won't be neither a great sandbox experience nor memorable game from the point of storytelling and choices & consequences. It goes too far into action and cinematic experience with cutting a lot of vital elements of RPG genre that Bioware was famous for.

I`d say reaching the level of Planescape would be impossible now adays. That game has about 5000 pages of text and dialogue. Just not possible with a voiced protagonist. DA3 having a story thats on par with The Witcher 2, or better, is certainly doable.

[Nerevar-as]

Sparrowhawke wrote...

I agree 100%. I replayed DAII recently to compare it to ME3 in terms of dialog and choice. For all the flack it has recieved, DAII features a much greater roleplay experience than ME3. I really don't mind the dialog wheel. I think a dev in a prior thread made a strong argument that the investigate and a-tonal choice options ended up making it as nuanced as the silent dialog threads in origins (minus the coercion).

I think the mistakes with the wheel were the horrible paraphrasing and the nice-jerkass-agressive dialogue dinamic it created. It would have worked better to have different ways of saying something without always making it a 3 option choice.

[99DP1982]

Sparrowhawke wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Savber100 wrote...

Honestly the reason we love origins is because we love choice.

If Bioware can make up for the lack of origins then I'm all in.

Choices and Consequences Bioware Choices and Consequences.

Pretty much this.

I can handle the dialogue wheel, I can handle a voiced protagonist, I can handle no race selection, I can even handle a more fixed character with their own character development without player input (ME3 Shepard for example) if the choice and consequence mechanic is bang on.

If that is done right and is weighty and doesn't exist in a bubble - almost everything else that bugs me I tend to forget about.

I agree 100%. I replayed DAII recently to compare it to ME3 in terms of dialog and choice. For all the flack it has recieved, DAII features a much greater roleplay experience than ME3. I really don't mind the dialog wheel. I think a dev in a prior thread made a strong argument that the investigate and a-tonal choice options ended up making it as nuanced as the silent dialog threads in origins (minus the coercion).

It still falls short to the amount of text and dialog that was present in Baldur's Gate, Planescape, Fallout, KotOR, etc. It definatelly is better than TES series though (which I personally loath and don't touch with a10ft pole).

[deuce985]

Todd23 wrote...

DA3. Has a bad start? You mean the downward slope didn't magicly disapeare? And no one agreed with me when I predicted it letting us down.

This is the only thing I'd consider a "major negative" for me. Everything else I've heard so far is positive. Well, mostly everything. I'm indifferent on a few other things but I'll wait to see how they turn out. It's easy to criticize something not going in the game when you don't know what is going in the game...

I'll just sit back and wait until I actually start seeing some footage before I form a definite opinion.

I really want to see the level design, customization, character/player agency and combat. That's probably the biggest things for me right now. I'm not really concerned with the writing/characters...

Modifié par deuce985, 24 octobre 2012 - 09:35 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

Savber100 wrote...

Honestly the reason we love origins is because we love choice. 

Origins restrict choice.

If you want choice, you should want a blank slate PC whose background you can define entirely without constraint.

[Shadow Fox]

nedpepper wrote...

A question:

If Bioware had decided your PC HAD to be an elf or a dwarf, how would you all feel about this?

Is it a case where you are still being restricted, or because so many of you are upset BECAUSE you like playing elves or dwarves, and would this be acceptable?

And if so, how would you respond to the people who like human protagonists?

I'm trying to understand the pulse of this argument, which right now seems to be slightly schizophrenic.

You'd have the same issue people wanting to use other races.

[NedPepper]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

nedpepper wrote...

A question:

If Bioware had decided your PC HAD to be an elf or a dwarf, how would you all feel about this?

Is it a case where you are still being restricted, or because so many of you are upset BECAUSE you like playing elves or dwarves, and would this be acceptable?

And if so, how would you respond to the people who like human protagonists?

I'm trying to understand the pulse of this argument, which right now seems to be slightly schizophrenic.

You'd have the same issue people wanting to use other races.

Even if Dragon Age 4 was a story about the Dalish trying to reclaim their past?  Would you want to play as a dwarf here?  Would it make any sense to play as a dwarf, you know, just because?

[noxpanda]

Im very late to this discussion! Cant say im surprised at the choice of humans only, though city elf might have worked too. Dwarf or Dalish wouldve been hilarious *pokes head out of orzammer/aravel, looks at crazy humans, shakes head and goes back to the nugs/hugging trees*

[Allan Schumacher]

99DP1982 wrote...

It still falls short to the amount of text and dialog that was present in Baldur's Gate, Planescape, Fallout, KotOR, etc. It definatelly is better than TES series though (which I personally loath and don't touch with a10ft pole).

I can't think of much of anything that holds a candle to PST.  I probably should replay BG1/2 since it's been probably over a decade since I last played them.

Although I did recently replay the original Fallout, and I actually found myself surprised at how straight forward the dialogues in that game really were.  I'd have to take a peek at Fallout 2, but I remembered more depth the conversations of Fallout than what I was given.

[Icinix]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

99DP1982 wrote...

It still falls short to the amount of text and dialog that was present in Baldur's Gate, Planescape, Fallout, KotOR, etc. It definatelly is better than TES series though (which I personally loath and don't touch with a10ft pole).

I can't think of much of anything that holds a candle to PST.  I probably should replay BG1/2 since it's been probably over a decade since I last played them.

Although I did recently replay the original Fallout, and I actually found myself surprised at how straight forward the dialogues in that game really were.  I'd have to take a peek at Fallout 2, but I remembered more depth the conversations of Fallout than what I was given.

I think Inquisitor pips PST....the amount of text in that game is just frightening.

[Sidney]

Savber100 wrote...

Honestly the reason we love origins is because we love choice.

If Bioware can make up for the lack of origins then I'm all in.

Choices and Consequences Bioware Choices and Consequences.

The problem with your logic is that the origins "choice" had no consequence in 98% of the game. The reason I don't care about having racial selections is that there is no real consequence to your choices other than being tall, short and thin or short and fat. Aesthetics not content were the biggest "effect" other than a few toss away dialog bits here and there.

People don't want choices with consequcnes, they want to piddle around with how they look not who their character is.

[Todd23]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

DA3. Has a bad start? You mean the downward slope didn't magicly disapeare? And no one agreed with me when I predicted it letting us down.

Given this was the same as DA2, I don't see a slope here.

I meant the slope of DA games.  Origins>Awakening>DA2. 

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Sidney wrote...

Savber100 wrote...

Honestly the reason we love origins is because we love choice.

If Bioware can make up for the lack of origins then I'm all in.

Choices and Consequences Bioware Choices and Consequences.

The problem with your logic is that the origins "choice" had no consequence in 98% of the game. The reason I don't care about having racial selections is that there is no real consequence to your choices other than being tall, short and thin or short and fat. Aesthetics not content were the biggest "effect" other than a few toss away dialog bits here and there.

People don't want choices with consequcnes, they want to piddle around with how they look not who their character is.

There's no real consequence for any of the choices in the series (except Dark Ritual) so you gonna say you don't care about 99.99% of the choices in the series?

[Sidney]

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...
There's no real consequence for any of the choices in the series (except Dark Ritual) so you gonna say you don't care about 99.99% of the choices in the series?

The difference being the choice itself is meaningful in the plot moments. My charcter is defined by the decisions I make - the fact that basically all the choices lead to the same kill the AD with 4 armies supporting you is mostly immaterial. By contrast choosing to be a dwarf is a choice much the same way "blond" is in terms of defining who you are --  it isn't. It could be, and really should be, but the game just isn't sophisticated enough (for good reasons likely technology) to react in 3 different manners to 3 different races.