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[Huntress]

nedpepper wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

nedpepper wrote...

A question:

If Bioware had decided your PC HAD to be an elf or a dwarf, how would you all feel about this?

Is it a case where you are still being restricted, or because so many of you are upset BECAUSE you like playing elves or dwarves, and would this be acceptable?

And if so, how would you respond to the people who like human protagonists?

I'm trying to understand the pulse of this argument, which right now seems to be slightly schizophrenic.

You'd have the same issue people wanting to use other races.

Even if Dragon Age 4 was a story about the Dalish trying to reclaim their past?  Would you want to play as a dwarf here?  Would it make any sense to play as a dwarf, you know, just because?

maybe playing as a dwarf bring more answers of how some of the dalish  got to live in a Dwarven city in the deep roads.. oh you probably didn't play witch hunt.. sorry.

Modifié par Huntress, 24 octobre 2012 - 10:45 .

[Celtic Latino]

I'm slightly disappointed as I really love the lore behind the dwarves and elves in Dragon Age. However, given there will be origin stories and I didn't mind Dragon Age II's focus on Hawke, I think it's not a terrible loss.

So long as there's a solid story, origin stories affecting gameplay and beyond, fun gameplay and of course, character customization, then I'm fine. )

[JasonShepard]

I think that human protagonist vs choosing a race... well, put it this way. If I choose an elf while a lot of people pick a human and a few others pick a dwarf, then I know that it's different. It's a bigger jump compared to male/female, rich/poor, or even soldier/rogue/mage.
And that's why I like it. Even if a part of me knows that you can do just as much with human but different backgrounds, it just doesn't feel as big as human/elf/dwarf/other. It's probably something to do with how my brain fills in the gaps between what's shown on screen and what isn't.

(And, well, there's that side of me that just loves elves, but, well, isn't everyone like that? )

So, in conclusion, yeah, I am a bit disappointed with this decision, and making the same decision in DA2 is probably a factor in why I haven't bought or played DA2 yet. (That said, I am still planning to buy DA2.)

[WhiteThunder]

JasonShepard wrote...

So, in conclusion, yeah, I am a bit disappointed with this decision, and making the same decision in DA2 is probably a factor in why I haven't bought or played DA2 yet. (That said, I am still planning to buy DA2.)

Honestly, there's no rush.  It isn't a bad game, but neither is it particularly good.   I'd wait for it to be $10 on an Origin sale.  It's actually 7.25 on Amazon right now if you want it, 12.30 if you want the download only.

[Rawgrim]

It will take more than this to keep me from buying the game. If they add that damn manga combat from DA2 and the DA2 elves, however, I won`t touch the game. 3 strikes and all that.

[VanDraegon]

Well, i look at it this way....

Bioware has a certain story arc about Thedas they want to tell us and resolve in the current games now that our introduction to the world(DA:O) is over. For the story to unfold with their vision of the world it needs to be from a human POV.

I have no doubt that the DA games will continue to be successful and once the important story arcs are played out i imagine that we will move on. There is a huge amount of the world and its history to cover. It should be interesting. I see us leaping forward in time a ways to another Blight. At least that is my hope.

[alhamel94]

i do wish we could use a race choice. i love mass effect and i love dragon age but i dont want to see mass effect in a fantasy setting as opposed to scifi and i fear that this is where it is headed. also the biggest thing is that race was optional originally. less people complain about race in mass effect because they have been consistent

[JasonShepard]

WhiteThunder wrote...

JasonShepard wrote...

So, in conclusion, yeah, I am a bit disappointed with this decision, and making the same decision in DA2 is probably a factor in why I haven't bought or played DA2 yet. (That said, I am still planning to buy DA2.)

Honestly, there's no rush.  It isn't a bad game, but neither is it particularly good.   I'd wait for it to be $10 on an Origin sale.  It's actually 7.25 on Amazon right now if you want it, 12.30 if you want the download only.

I know there's no rush  It's quite funny actually - I took ages before I got hold of DA:O as well, because I just wasn't sure if it was for me (the look of the combat - mainly just the coloured rings around characters - put me off). Then I began hearing good things about it, and, having already enjoyed ME1&2 from Bioware, I picked up the Ultimate Edition and discovered what is probably one of my favourite games, of all time, ever.

I know it's not going to be the same with DA2 - the new art-style, the freshly voiced (and therefore less flexible) main character, and (as mentioned) the lack of race choice - all have put me off for the time being. But I am looking forward to having all the DLC at my fingertips from day one...


Anyway, to get (vaguely) back on topic - the main character voicing is another, related issue. I found DA:O's lack of 
a voice actor for the Warden to be a major advantage that added to the customisation of the character - in my mind at least. Rather than have someone else saying the words, all I needed to do was choose to say them and other characters would respond. It made me feel as if I was the Warden, in a way no other game ever has. (Note - I make very little distinction between feeling like I am a character and my ability to customise a character, mainly because I usually play 'as myself', even if it's 'as myself but with a completely different history'.)

So if I was designing DA3, I'd cut the voice acting for the main character and use the extra resources to give race flexibility. But maybe that's just me... (I'll admit that the lack of voicing initially pushed me away from DA:O, even if it did become one of my favourite features.)

[Shadeling]

Not surprised at all that EAware appears to be sticking to the Mass Effect cookie mold. I had my doubts when I first started reading about the promises that they would be bringing back the best parts of DA:O for DA3, and so far, those doubts remain.

[Beever_Boy]

I loved DA:O, I also enjoyed DA2. I was really interested in the backstories in Origins, but I agree that a game can be great without multiple playable races. I will give DA3 the chance it deserves. Am I a little disappointed about not having a multitude of prologues to play? Of course, but if the game is great despite this, that is what matters.

[daaaav]

As i've said time and time again, I am for this decision if and only if Bioware justify the lack of choice by giving us a richer and more developed experience.

I am not a fan of the elder scrolls philosophy of heaping choices on the player that produce only mannequin characters and trivial plot lines.

Make the most of it.

[inarvan]

I'll say I am a little disappointed, but as many others have said, it's not a deal-breaker for me. My Warden was an elf, and I thought the dwarven options were well done in Origins. The human Noble story was kind of boring, to be honest. I did like DA2 for what it was (a more personal story without the world-saving epic), but I want to see epic again in DA3. Give me a great, reactive story and the ability to fully customize my puny human, and I'll still be on board for DA3.

[Sidney]

Shadeling wrote...

Not surprised at all that EAware appears to be sticking to the Mass Effect cookie mold. I had my doubts when I first started reading about the promises that they would be bringing back the best parts of DA:O for DA3, and so far, those doubts remain.

Did you like KoTOR? Jade Empire? Fallout1/2/3/NV, TW1/2? PST? They're all RPG's where you can't select from the many races in the world. Most have a fixed background - vault dweller, witcher, stuff that I won't say for risk of spoiling JE/KoTOR/PST for anyone who hasn't played those.

Are you really saying you wouldn't have liked DAO if the back story was that only humans could hold the warden power?

[alhamel94]

Sidney wrote...

Shadeling wrote...

Not surprised at all that EAware appears to be sticking to the Mass Effect cookie mold. I had my doubts when I first started reading about the promises that they would be bringing back the best parts of DA:O for DA3, and so far, those doubts remain.

Did you like KoTOR? Jade Empire? Fallout1/2/3/NV, TW1/2? PST? They're all RPG's where you can't select from the many races in the world. Most have a fixed background - vault dweller, witcher, stuff that I won't say for risk of spoiling JE/KoTOR/PST for anyone who hasn't played those.

Are you really saying you wouldn't have liked DAO if the back story was that only humans could hold the warden power?

is jade empire worth playing at this point?

[Gamemako]

alhamel94 wrote...

is jade empire worth playing at this point?

Yes.

[TheShadowWolf911]

nedpepper wrote...

Nerevar-as wrote...

nedpepper wrote...

Harle Cerulean wrote...

nedpepper wrote...

A question:

If Bioware had decided your PC HAD to be an elf or a dwarf, how would you all feel about this?

Is it a case where you are still being restricted, or because so many of you are upset BECAUSE you like playing elves or dwarves, and would this be acceptable?

And if so, how would you respond to the people who like human protagonists?

I'm trying to understand the pulse of this argument, which right now seems to be slightly schizophrenic.

Well, that depends.  Now that I've had to sit through a bunch of people telling me that I only want to play an elf because of some sexual fetish, and being self-righteously smug that I don't have the option to play as my preferred race, I'd probably be pretty smug right back, with a dose of "Now you see how I feel."  Without taking that into account, however, I'd be sad for the people who like to play humans, but glad I wouldn't be stuck playing as one again.

However, the question is fairly pointless since such a limitation will never happen.  Bioware isn't going to cut out a human PC, ever.

How can you know that?  What if the next game completely revolves around the Dalish reclaiming their homeland?  What would be the point of playing as a human?  It's an elven story that deals with elven culture.

If only... Most people play as human, so the PC is going to be one regardless of whether it makes sense or not. So unless it happens on a DLC, expect a human to discover and deal with everything elvish and dwarvish that happens in the future, no matter how patronizing it could come across ("superior" individual helping out the "underdog" cultures).

That's awfully cynical.  And a big assumption.  You could be right.  Seems to me, based on his writing, Gaider likes elves and dwarves.  So does Bioware.  It could be that Dragon Age 3 focuses mainly on a human problem that spreads out to affect all races.  So they'll be there.  But, just going on the little information I have, it makes sense to have a human PC.

Laidlaw has aleady said moving forward, race selection could come back.  Let them tell this story, the one they've been building, and see what the future holds. 

But, it goes back to my original question.  Would people play a game with just an elven PC? 

i would think so, as a company just released a RPG where your only playable characters are a Orc and a Goblin fighting the evil human empire.

[BloodyTalon]

Why human again really?

I'm very disappointed but its not a deal breaker, just hope we have more non human npcs then human ones.

And naturally hope there is a female version to play, I try to role-play things not like me in these games.

Modifié par Talosred, 25 octobre 2012 - 03:39 .

[QueenPurpleScrap]

I have played all the Origins and can't say which is my favorite. It depends on the day, I guess. I liked the different way people reacted to me based on my race and some of the options in how I could respond to them. I would have loved to me a dwarf merchant fleeing Lothering or an elven mage/servant/etc. in DA2. Maybe being Viscount would have been impossible for me but maybe I would have been assisting a companion Hawke. Oops, I'm digressing.

Lack of race options is a big disappontment but is not enough to be a dealbreaker in its own right. But continued lack of race options in future games could be a bigger factor in the decision to purchase later games in the franchise. What it does mean is that DA3 has to be that much better with respect to the story and how the options for your character play out. Whether that's fair or not, that's the way I feel. There is a reason why I've played DAO so many times compared to TES or other games.

[tmp7704]

Sidney wrote...

Did you like KoTOR? Jade Empire? Fallout1/2/3/NV, TW1/2? PST? They're all RPG's where you can't select from the many races in the world. Most have a fixed background - vault dweller, witcher, stuff that I won't say for risk of spoiling JE/KoTOR/PST for anyone who hasn't played those.

Are you really saying you wouldn't have liked DAO if the back story was that only humans could hold the warden power?

While i liked the games you list, ultimately i liked DAO more than them in large part because it offered me more stories than those titles. It is also the only game out of them that i've bothered to play more than once.

So yes, if DAO was limited just to human noble origin, i'd probably wind up thinking quite less of it. A decent game, but very much like the number of them. It is, in fact, pretty much how i view DA2 at this point. A title just like a number of previous BioWare games, hamstrung with number of design decisions which didn't mesh well with my tastes, and the fact it was rushed out of the door.

Modifié par tmp7704, 25 octobre 2012 - 05:23 .

[Maria Caliban]

nedpepper wrote...

A question:

If Bioware had decided your PC HAD to be an elf or a dwarf, how would you all feel about this?

I'd be fine with it.

Is it a case where you are still being restricted, or because so many of you are upset BECAUSE you like playing elves or dwarves, and would this be acceptable?

I have no idea what you mean by this.

And if so, how would you respond to the people who like human protagonists?

I don't respond to people's preferences, but what they say or do. If someone who liked a human protagonist said "I like human protagonists" I'd probably not say anything.

I'm trying to understand the pulse of this argument, which right now seems to be slightly schizophrenic.

Over a dozen different people are giving their opinion. You're trying to pretend as though they're all one person. There's nothing 'schizophrenic' about it.

[99DP1982]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

99DP1982 wrote...

It still falls short to the amount of text and dialog that was present in Baldur's Gate, Planescape, Fallout, KotOR, etc. It definatelly is better than TES series though (which I personally loath and don't touch with a10ft pole).

I can't think of much of anything that holds a candle to PST.  I probably should replay BG1/2 since it's been probably over a decade since I last played them.

Although I did recently replay the original Fallout, and I actually found myself surprised at how straight forward the dialogues in that game really were.  I'd have to take a peek at Fallout 2, but I remembered more depth the conversations of Fallout than what I was given.

I'd not say that each conversation is very deep (as in branched) but the amount of NPCs with the personality and dialog options is just amazing. I think that New Reno Alone has more memorable NPCs with dialog options than most of the modern games.

[johndud0]

I don't really care as long as more work goes into story, combat, abilities, choices, customization, MORE VARIETY IN LOCATIONS, no more resused areas for combat...I always play human anyways.

Btw I love both games but I have to say you guys BLEW my mind with the new abilities in DA2 never have I ever seen such a great skill tree, every time I leveled up I felt like a kid at christmas, please go bigger next time around, just kudos to you guys!

[Blue Gloves]

Um- not so much disappointed with the inability to choose race as I am with the non-playable origins. The origin stories at the beginning ofDAO were Absolutely my favorite part of that game, but I thought there were many places where race and origin should have been a more significant factor in the PC's interactions and conversations. I'm hoping that the backgrounds we do get to choose from will effect the game in a more significant way than they did in Origins. I'm also REALLY hoping that since the background isn't playable, it's at least a quick cut scene that will give me a feeling of connection with my PC.

[DMan7733]

The race-choice was a big draw-in when I got DAO, a good fantasy RPG was hard to come by and I always play as elves when I get the chance. It isn't a deal-breaker, for me, I'll still play the game, and likely re-play the entire franchise like I did for ME3. Playing a human never bothered me in ME, it was more the lack-therof of race choices in DA2 that bothered me, but it wasn't enough to stop me from getting the game, and it still won't, now that I expect not to be able to, it won't be a dissapointment. (I can't wait for the chance to do so again though)

[rolson00]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

I don't like it or hate it, I simply think it's not a key issue. Lots of great games make you play as a human (or even restrict you to a single human male), and tons of mediocre games let you play as other races.

The reason why I like the Dragon Age games has little to do with whether or not I can play an elf or a dwarf, although I do feel that the elves/dwarves have kind of been marginalized in their lore importance. I'd like to see more done with them even if we can't play as them.

while i'm pretty gutted this is a great way of looking at it