3855 réponses à ce sujet

[Shadow Fox]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

 Don't underestimate the allure of schadenfreude. 

"People who hang around the BSN in order to amuse themselves through what they view as hilariously incompetent mistakes" is not a market demographic I'd target.

I'd probably just ignore them completely, and that's being generous.

I stick around because all the arguing amuses me.

[Sidney]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

google_calasade wrote...

From what I've seen neither the DA:O crowd or that of DA 2 are interested in a compromise, so offering them a mixture of features from the two games is risky at best. 

That depends upon which feature you're talking about.

Well the DAO crowd are the arch-reactionary, luddite crowd. There is no compromise to them because that game was somehow perfect - albeit the perfection of that game has grown since those same people were griping how not like BG2 it was.

I don't know anyone who looks at DA2, even those of us who like it, and want to defend things or aren't even willing to see changes in things like encounter design, weapon/armor look n' feel and so on. The core of what DA2 does right (CCC's, responsiveness and fluidity of combat) are the things I want preserved.

[DreamwareStudio]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

google_calasade wrote...

From what I've seen neither the DA:O crowd or that of DA 2 are interested in a compromise, so offering them a mixture of features from the two games is risky at best. 

That depends upon which feature you're talking about.

Exactly, so some people will be pissed about "this" while others will be pissed about "that". In between those you will have few satisfied customers. Put the angry ones together here, on Metacritic, Facebook, whatever, and the negativity magnifies, but it's also reenergized because the purchase and their "burn" are new. Suddenly, what you have is DA 2 Redux. Better to draw a line in the sand now and say this is it.

The hullabaloo will be much less.

Modifié par google_calasade, 26 octobre 2012 - 04:58 .

[Costin_Razvan]

Makes sense I suppose, given that you are going to lead the Inquisition.

[DreamwareStudio]

Sidney wrote...

Well the DAO crowd are the arch-reactionary, luddite crowd. There is no compromise to them because that game was somehow perfect - albeit the perfection of that game has grown since those same people were griping how not like BG2 it was.

I don't know anyone who looks at DA2, even those of us who like it, and want to defend things or aren't even willing to see changes in things like encounter design, weapon/armor look n' feel and so on. The core of what DA2 does right (CCC's, responsiveness and fluidity of combat) are the things I want preserved.

Most of the DA:O crowd were long-standing Bioware customers who had waited years (not weeks or months) for DA:O, but at this point that is neither here nor there. Their reaction was more due to feeling betrayed and mislead. At any rate, you can't truly quantify all DA 2 fans as level headed. I've seen the opposite.

Those customers, btw, who seem the most insane, they are the ones who will be most loyal. This is true of them whether they liked DA:O or DA 2. Ya gotta give it to the so-called nuts. They are committed. 

[DreamwareStudio]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

 Don't underestimate the allure of schadenfreude. 

"People who hang around the BSN in order to amuse themselves through what they view as hilariously incompetent mistakes" is not a market demographic I'd target.

I'd probably just ignore them completely, and that's being generous.

I stick around because all the arguing amuses me.

Yeah, I do, too, but...shhh, don't tell anyone.

[DreamwareStudio]

Hanz54321 wrote...

Vicious wrote...

Likewise, if a fan that felt scorned by DA2 is still hanging around talking about DA3, I get the impression that they WANT to be brought back into the fold as well. Otherwise they'd have just moved on.

Nailed it.

Yup.  The posts which followed claiming that he should not assume . . . nonsense.

If people did not make assumptions in many fields then nothing would get done.  Advertisers safely assume that paying big dollars to run their advertisements during the Super Bowl will reach the largest audience possible in one 3 hour slot.  That assumption proves true every year.  I ronically every year it proves true strengthens the safety of the assumption.

This is also the case in this thread.  People who are truly done with a video game stop talking about it, stop going to the forums, and stop thinking about it.  I've been on enough gaming forums and played enough games to see this play out over and over.  Anyone who is hanging around complaining is going to give the next product/expansion a try.  I'm quite comfortable making that assumption.

Oh - and I like the human companion.

Well, then I must be the exception. I'm on these forums because I like talking/sharing ideas about games and have some friends on here. There is zero percent chance I will buy DA 3 because it will not be a traditional RPG. Even if it was a traditional RPG, the whole Mages vs. Templars thing, I don't have any interest in that conflict.

Modifié par google_calasade, 26 octobre 2012 - 05:11 .

[Allan Schumacher]

There's always exceptions.

Anyways, I think we've digressed enough.

[DreamwareStudio]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

There's always exceptions.

Anyways, I think we've digressed enough.

Yeah, you're probably right. It's time for me to get back to editing anyway.

Y'all have a great night! This was fun. 

[Reznik23]

Doesn't worry me - I always selected human anyway.

[zyntifox]

google_calasade wrote...

Hanz54321 wrote...

Vicious wrote...

Likewise, if a fan that felt scorned by DA2 is still hanging around talking about DA3, I get the impression that they WANT to be brought back into the fold as well. Otherwise they'd have just moved on.

Nailed it.

Yup.  The posts which followed claiming that he should not assume . . . nonsense.

If people did not make assumptions in many fields then nothing would get done.  Advertisers safely assume that paying big dollars to run their advertisements during the Super Bowl will reach the largest audience possible in one 3 hour slot.  That assumption proves true every year.  I ronically every year it proves true strengthens the safety of the assumption.

This is also the case in this thread.  People who are truly done with a video game stop talking about it, stop going to the forums, and stop thinking about it.  I've been on enough gaming forums and played enough games to see this play out over and over.  Anyone who is hanging around complaining is going to give the next product/expansion a try.  I'm quite comfortable making that assumption.

Oh - and I like the human companion.

Well, then I must be the exception. I'm on these forums because I like talking/sharing ideas about games and have some friends on here. There is zero percent chance I will buy DA 3 because it will not be a traditional RPG. Even if it was a traditional RPG, the whole Mages vs. Templars thing, I don't have any interest in that conflict.

I too must be the exception since i won't be buying it, mainly due to paraphrase dialogue and races, which is fine; i don't need to buy every Bioware game that get's released (though it will be the first besides that Sonic game). I still hang around these forums because i like discussing and reading about DA lore and RPG-features.

[99DP1982]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Numbers speak for themselves, and Skyrim has sold more copies than DA:O, DA2, ME, ME2 and ME3 put together. That would seem to indicate that Bethesda understand some basic desires common in roleplayers that Bioware do not. Therefore, no matter the many other weaknesses in the TES games, the player is able to create excactly the character they like.

I never like this argument, because Skyrim trounces the crap out of DAO too. So should we just drop everything we did in DAO too and do what Skyrim did? It seems to me that there's a lot more to the success of Skyrim than the contribution that Multiplayer may or may not have had on the sales.

Hell NOO... The TES games are as bland and dull as one can get... There is no memorable NPCs, no good writting, just action in a giant sandbox...  They are good for a couple of hours but after a while it just gets more an dmroe boring... I do not get it, why people like a single player version of an MMO?

[Shadow Fox]

99DP1982 wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Numbers speak for themselves, and Skyrim has sold more copies than DA:O, DA2, ME, ME2 and ME3 put together. That would seem to indicate that Bethesda understand some basic desires common in roleplayers that Bioware do not. Therefore, no matter the many other weaknesses in the TES games, the player is able to create excactly the character they like.

I never like this argument, because Skyrim trounces the crap out of DAO too. So should we just drop everything we did in DAO too and do what Skyrim did? It seems to me that there's a lot more to the success of Skyrim than the contribution that Multiplayer may or may not have had on the sales.

Hell NOO... The TES games are as bland and dull as one can get... There is no memorable NPCs, no good writting, just action in a giant sandbox...  They are good for a couple of hours but after a while it just gets more an dmroe boring... I do not get it, why people like a single player version of an MMO?

As apposed to seeing the same story repeated each playthough?that doesn't get boring at all?

And if you think Skyrim is like an mmo I have to question if you've played many.

[Corto81]

IMO it's just another clue Bioware has completely abandoned it's roots and the sales and reviews on DA3 will only confirm that the RPG audience is moving on...
Be it good old Bethesda, new CDPR or pouring money into Kickstarter for games like Project Eternity... Hell, even BG:EE is getting massive hype, deservedly so.

There is a MASSIVE RPG crowd out there, and those people just want better, deeper RPGs.
That means believable world, immersive and "real", believable NPCs, choices that matter, choices of customization, etc etc.

Bioware just doesn't get it anymore.
RPGs are not about cut-scenes and "recognizable" NPCs (I mean, WTF, people aren't morons, we're able to tell one NPC from another after changing their armor), they're not about the voiced-protagonist (outside of Witcher 2, no top tier RPG in the last 5-6 years has had a VP, and it didn't matter... not Skyrim, not Dark Souls, not DA:Origins, etc).

Long story shot...
DA3:Inquisition is looking like it's gonna continue what DA2 started, streamlined and dumbed-down, and is (IMO) gonna be the final nail in the coffin of a franchise that started so great with DA:Origins.

[upsettingshorts]

Corto81 wrote...

Long story shot...

Well, bye.

[99DP1982]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

99DP1982 wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Numbers speak for themselves, and Skyrim has sold more copies than DA:O, DA2, ME, ME2 and ME3 put together. That would seem to indicate that Bethesda understand some basic desires common in roleplayers that Bioware do not. Therefore, no matter the many other weaknesses in the TES games, the player is able to create excactly the character they like.

I never like this argument, because Skyrim trounces the crap out of DAO too. So should we just drop everything we did in DAO too and do what Skyrim did? It seems to me that there's a lot more to the success of Skyrim than the contribution that Multiplayer may or may not have had on the sales.

Hell NOO... The TES games are as bland and dull as one can get... There is no memorable NPCs, no good writting, just action in a giant sandbox...  They are good for a couple of hours but after a while it just gets more an dmroe boring... I do not get it, why people like a single player version of an MMO?

As apposed to seeing the same story repeated each playthough?that doesn't get boring at all?

And if you think Skyrim is like an mmo I have to question if you've played many.

I've tried to play Morrowind, and even gave a chance to Oblivion and Fallout 3.... if not Fallout: New Vegas, developed by Obsidian, they would not see my money ever again. I did not buy Skyrim though... it has nothing that would appease to my taste... if you mean that a single playthrough makes the game boring, then that's most likely ME3 or DA2 you are talking about, which have little to no replay value.

I talk about games like Alpha Protocol, Fallout 1&2, Baldur's Gate series, and other games that do not throw all the content at you on your first playthrough. Where you can find new way to complete a game with different outcomes even on 50th playthrough...

The only thing these two types of games have in common is repetitive combat, which gets boring after a while, but unlike sandbox games, the well designed and written RPGs always have far more replayability, even if to read nd experience the story and characters once again (like with a good book to which you sometimes return, even though you've read it and know the ending)

[ledod]

Humans are fine- the context asks for it. Would a dwarf have any opinion on magic- nah, he is too busy defeating the darkspawn  knocking at his door. Elves, maybe- given their lower social staus in the chantry- NO! Guys, humans make sense in this story.


Bioware, in the future, craft a brilliant story that makes the other dudies, dwarves-kossith-elves-whateves, more prominent figures in the plot.


LET'S HAVE AN ENTIRE CAMPAIGN TAKIN' PLACE IN THE MIGHTY DEEPROADS!!! RETAKE AN OLD THAIG, MY FRIENDS????

[Maria Caliban]

Corto81 wrote...

(outside of Witcher 2, no top tier RPG in the last 5-6 years has had a VP, and it didn't matter... not Skyrim, not Dark Souls, not DA:Origins, etc).

Mass Effect, Deus Ex: Human Revolution, The Last Remnant, Risen, Alpha Protocol.

I'm sure there have been Japanese RPGs I've never heard of with voice acting as well.

99DP1982 wrote...

Hell NOO... The TES games are as bland and dull as one can get... There is no memorable NPCs, no good writting, just action in a giant sandbox...  They are good for a couple of hours but after a while it just gets more an dmroe boring... I do not get it, why people like a single player version of an MMO?

Oblivion was dull. Skryrim was not. What makes an Elder Scroll game not-dull is the setting, which was generic fantasy puke in Oblivion as opposed to Skyrim or Morrowind.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 26 octobre 2012 - 07:30 .

[DreamwareStudio]

Corto81 wrote...

IMO it's just another clue Bioware has completely abandoned it's roots and the sales and reviews on DA3 will only confirm that the RPG audience is moving on...
Be it good old Bethesda, new CDPR or pouring money into Kickstarter for games like Project Eternity... Hell, even BG:EE is getting massive hype, deservedly so.

There is a MASSIVE RPG crowd out there, and those people just want better, deeper RPGs.
That means believable world, immersive and "real", believable NPCs, choices that matter, choices of customization, etc etc.

Bioware just doesn't get it anymore.
RPGs are not about cut-scenes and "recognizable" NPCs (I mean, WTF, people aren't morons, we're able to tell one NPC from another after changing their armor), they're not about the voiced-protagonist (outside of Witcher 2, no top tier RPG in the last 5-6 years has had a VP, and it didn't matter... not Skyrim, not Dark Souls, not DA:Origins, etc).

Long story shot...
DA3:Inquisition is looking like it's gonna continue what DA2 started, streamlined and dumbed-down, and is (IMO) gonna be the final nail in the coffin of a franchise that started so great with DA:Origins.

Re the Witcher, when I bought the first one, I thought there is no way I'm going to like a voiced preset protagonist. I bought it because a friend insisted I would enjoy the hell out of it. I told him he was crazy, but after a while, thought what the hell. I will try it but I won't enjoy it. Man, was I wrong. Dark, gritty, thriving world, interesting characters, good role-playing, choices not necessarily right or wrong but wholly impacting, terrfiic story lines, mature content, loved the plot. With that series, CD Projekt kind of pulled off the impossible for me. Geralt was Geralt, of course, but he still felt like mine, you know? The Witcher 2, same thing, but somehow way better. I eagerly anticipate the third. I really appreciate the way CD Projekt listened to criticisms (even ones with which I did not agree) and took them to heart in improving what came before. They did a STELLAR job. 

Top 5 Faves:

1) BG 2 SOA/TOB
2) The Witcher 2
3) DA:O
4) The Witcher
5) BG 1 (I cannot wait for EE)

Modifié par google_calasade, 26 octobre 2012 - 07:32 .

[Flurdt Vash]

The whole "Having to play Human" was kind of a slap in the face at first . Like so many I was on here after DA2 when fan feed back was asked and like most I also wrote a mini novella on my thoughts and feelings. Now, we are playing Shep... errr Human (tee hee sorry :innocent:, was just joking, Mass fans don't kill me), again. HOWEVER, after reading the other things released on the game, Im kinda coming around that this is going to be best for the story. I still dont feel as if it were for DA2, that should have gone multi races, but this is just my humble opinion nothing more. So we know we are being in Inquisitor right? I mean I think thats what every one is saying, and Inquisitor for the Chantry, okay being Human , I get it. To be honest, I'm not as mad as I was, kinda feel like Im getting over the initial nerd rage . As long as the story rocks (and with Gaider, I have no doubts ... yes I'm a fan, LOVED all three of the books ), I think they have listened to us enough to make something epic. I do feel that they are going to have to pull out all the stops though to move fans beyond DA2. Epic seems to be the only option they can go .

Still got my fingers crossed for a Kossith female companion

Modifié par Flurdt07, 26 octobre 2012 - 07:34 .

[99DP1982]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Corto81 wrote...

(outside of Witcher 2, no top tier RPG in the last 5-6 years has had a VP, and it didn't matter... not Skyrim, not Dark Souls, not DA:Origins, etc).

Mass Effect, Deus Ex: Human Revolution, The Last Remnant, Risen, Alpha Protocol.

I'm sure there have been Japanese RPGs I've never heard of with voice acting as well.

99DP1982 wrote...

Hell NOO... The TES games are as bland and dull as one can get... There is no memorable NPCs, no good writting, just action in a giant sandbox...  They are good for a couple of hours but after a while it just gets more an dmroe boring... I do not get it, why people like a single player version of an MMO?

Oblivion was dull. Skryrim was not. What makes an Elder Scroll game not-dull is the setting, which was generic fantasy puke in Oblivion as opposed to Skyrim or Morrowind.

Can't agree, for me Morrowind was also dull... didn't manage to force myself and even finish the main plot. Exploration of repetitive areas can be fun only for so long. What kills those games for me is a stupid combat design and lack of "personality" in the world. There was not a single memorable moment to me in that Game and I bought version with expansions. (not to mention that you can be good at everything if you are willing to abuse the skill system)

[challenger18]

Corto81 wrote...

IMO it's just another clue Bioware has completely abandoned it's roots and the sales and reviews on DA3 will only confirm that the RPG audience is moving on...
Be it good old Bethesda, new CDPR or pouring money into Kickstarter for games like Project Eternity... Hell, even BG:EE is getting massive hype, deservedly so.

Right. With the news that the PC for DA3 will be voiced and can only be human, the fans will move on to the Witcher series where the games feature a non voiced PC who can be a human, an elf, or a dwarf and can hold a party of up to 6 people who you can also visually customize. So even though BioWare is moving away from it's roots, it's good to know these other games like the Witcher and Skyrim are staying true what BioWare used to be and not try anything new or different at all.

Bioware just doesn't get it anymore.
RPGs are not about cut-scenes and "recognizable" NPCs (I mean, WTF, people aren't morons, we're able to tell one NPC from another after changing their armor), they're not about the voiced-protagonist (outside of Witcher 2, no top tier RPG in the last 5-6 years has had a VP, and it didn't matter... not Skyrim, not Dark Souls, not DA:Origins, etc).

Please tell me all these RPGs that have no cut-scenes because I sure can't think of any. All the games and companies you brought up that make RPGs all have cut-scenes. Are there also multiple franchise titles that I am just unaware of that allow you to have deep conversations with the NPCs, allow you to have a party of people when you go into combat and also allow you to visually customize them? You can't have more than one follower in Skyrim, there is no depth to the story or characters, and you can't tell your companion what to wear, you just hand them stuff and hope they'll put it on. You can't do it the Witcher or Deus Ex series. In JRPGs you can have parties, but in most you can't visually customize what they wear.

Long story shot...
DA3:Inquisition is looking like it's gonna continue what DA2 started, streamlined and dumbed-down, and is (IMO) gonna be the final nail in the coffin of a franchise that started so great with DA:Origins.

K.

Modifié par challenger18, 26 octobre 2012 - 08:07 .

[AlanC9]

challenger18 wrote...
Please tell me all these RPGs that have no cut-scenes because I sure can't think of any.

Umm..... exactly how long have you been gaming?