3855 réponses à ce sujet

[AlexJK]

AustinKain wrote...

I was a AVID supporter of this company, but now I will wait and see what happens. If they really do rape this franchise and allow it to continue to happen then I am done.

How completely childish to use the word "rape" in this context.

[JuGonzo]

marshalleck wrote...

AustinKain wrote...

I am sure its been said before,but i am going to say it again. IF you are going to force us to play a human after the success of the elves and dwarves in origins,

que?

the origins that only 10% of the player base even started (and didn't necessarily finish)?

Strange percentage.

if you think there are 3 elven origins and 2 dwarves origins against only 2 human origins... 

[Eludajae]

Most likely the protagonist will be human. I doubt they will do another Origins type.

[IElitePredatorI]

Can't we have a cat race? I want to play as a cat, a kitty cat cat!

I guess it will be ok playing as a human... As long as it has some in-depth customization apart from just a face and hair like height and body types.

[marshalleck]

JuGonzo wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

AustinKain wrote...

I am sure its been said before,but i am going to say it again. IF you are going to force us to play a human after the success of the elves and dwarves in origins,

que?

the origins that only 10% of the player base even started (and didn't necessarily finish)?

Strange percentage.

if you think there are 3 elven origins and 2 dwarves origins against only 2 human origins... 

That's the point. Despite the numerous non-human origins available, the human origins were the ones played by a vast majority. Bioware are obviously keenly aware of this metric (which they publicly announced themselves) and have decided that spending so much time working on content that will appeal to such a small and vocal minority isn't really worth the cost of using those zots elsewhere on content for everyone.

[Sidney]

Salaya wrote...
I don't think that's true. Nor Baldur's Gate 1 nor Neverwinter Nights are "story inclined". Both are games clearly made to emphasize gameplay over storytelling. Note that I'm not saying that those games had no storytelling, or the plots were bad; I'm telling that in both cases the plot and the form that plot is presented is less important than gameplay. 

That might have been true in NWN which was lousy at both gameplay and story but that thing was built more as a toolkit than game anyeays.

BG1 was the learning curve where the story arc was strong but it got lost in the "clear the black" aspect of the game. Much like any TES game there might be some good content in there but it was buried in hours and hours and hours of boredom doing nothing. You could tell anytime you hit the story arc because you suddenly got, oh wait, cutscenes.

[JuGonzo]

marshalleck wrote...

JuGonzo wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

AustinKain wrote...

I am sure its been said before,but i am going to say it again. IF you are going to force us to play a human after the success of the elves and dwarves in origins,

que?

the origins that only 10% of the player base even started (and didn't necessarily finish)?

Strange percentage.

if you think there are 3 elven origins and 2 dwarves origins against only 2 human origins... 

That's the point. Despite the numerous non-human origins available, the human origins were the ones played by a vast majority. Bioware are obviously keenly aware of this metric (which they publicly announced themselves) and have decided that spending so much time working on content that will appeal to such a small and vocal minority isn't really worth the cost of using those zots elsewhere on content for everyone.

Two options here:

1 - They are lying

2 - Is the true and they want to do only humans PCs because of this, don't carring about those 10% fans... Ok. But they already lost 10%. Next game more 10%... and more 10%... 

Souds like SEGA to me...

(and perhaps they discover the gamers prefers Fable and Final Fantasy...)

[marshalleck]

Well, except the fact remains that people who loudly decry the "loss" of non-human origins (despite the fact it's not a loss at all, rather a continuation of a status quo) all have DA2 registered to their BSN accounts. So I think very few people indeed will actually stick to their guns and not buy DA3 solely based on a lack of non-human options, as some have claimed they will do.

Modifié par marshalleck, 26 octobre 2012 - 12:25 .

[Sidney]

99DP1982 wrote...


Hell NOO... The TES games are as bland and dull as one can get... There is no memorable NPCs, no good writting, just action in a giant sandbox...  They are good for a couple of hours but after a while it just gets more an dmroe boring... I do not get it, why people like a single player version of an MMO?

Wait, you don't enjoy going into yet another draugar tomb, walking through the same 6 terrain tiles rearrnaged in order to find 1 coin in an urn, kill the exact same monsters in the exact same way over...and over...and over again.

[SpunkyMonkey]

Only just heard this - bad move.

It's simple really, most of us are/were raised on the main heroes in Space Operas being human, hence why ME works. Yes side characters like Chewbacca were alien, but most of us accept the standard (mainly set by Star Wars & Star Trek) that star-trekkin is all about a massive expanse told from our (human) POV, and that discovering these new races is half the fun. I'm not saying the odd alien wouldn't find themselves in a line-up, but when we were kids most of us were playing as Han Solo, Luke, Buck Rogers, Kirk - even space-elf Spock was classed as something as an oddity and he was a main cast member.

Table-top RPG's and books/films such as LOTRs paint a different picture however and we're been raised to play the part of elves, dwarfes etc, as part of the norm. Fantasy environments aren't about discovering the great expanse, they are about discovering history and living in world overcrowded with races. Again as kids you'd be an elf-archer, dwarf axeman etc, - if you played in the woods as a group of adventurers you rarely ended up with 5 of you all human, if any at all! Most times you'd end up without a human because the whole fantasy mindset is about being something you can't be in real life, unlike a Space Opera mindset which is about a journey into the unknown.

They really are missing the point here of FRPG's, and I'm sure that the time & resources put into protagonist voice acting could have been spent elsewhere shaping the world to be viewed from a different races POV.

I've no concern about Bioware "not listening to the fans", whether they are/aren't their job is to make money and I accept that. What is worrying is that they seemed to have forgot what basic rules the very foundation of FRPGs were built on.

Not a chance of me pre-ordering or paying full-price for this game now, no matter how good the reviews say it will be.

Modifié par SpunkyMonkey, 26 octobre 2012 - 12:30 .

[JuGonzo]

marshalleck wrote...

Well, except the fact remains that people who loudly decry the "loss" of non-human origins (despite the fact it's not a loss at all, rather a continuation of a status quo) all have DA2 registered to their BSN accounts. So I think very few people indeed will actually stick to their guns and not buy DA3 solely based on a lack of non-human options, as some have claimed they will do.

Well, I will.

I like to play RPG. And RPG means possibility of choice to create a character. If I haven't it, I prefer to play Final Fantasy. 

[marshalleck]

JuGonzo wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Well, except the fact remains that people who loudly decry the "loss" of non-human origins (despite the fact it's not a loss at all, rather a continuation of a status quo) all have DA2 registered to their BSN accounts. So I think very few people indeed will actually stick to their guns and not buy DA3 solely based on a lack of non-human options, as some have claimed they will do.

Well, I will.

I like to play RPG. And RPG means possibility of choice to create a character. If I haven't it, I prefer to play Final Fantasy. 

Oh, so KOTOR and Planescape Torment weren't RPGs in your opinion. Alright.

[dheer]

marshalleck wrote...

JuGonzo wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

AustinKain wrote...
I am sure its been said before,but i am going to say it again. IF you are going to force us to play a human after the success of the elves and dwarves in origins,

que?

the origins that only 10% of the player base even started (and didn't necessarily finish)?

Strange percentage.

if you think there are 3 elven origins and 2 dwarves origins against only 2 human origins... 

That's the point. Despite the numerous non-human origins available, the human origins were the ones played by a vast majority. Bioware are obviously keenly aware of this metric (which they publicly announced themselves) and have decided that spending so much time working on content that will appeal to such a small and vocal minority isn't really worth the cost of using those zots elsewhere on content for everyone.

How much of that margain was an actual choice of human or was inflated because it was the default option? I don't think we'll ever really know and it makes this number pretty pointless to keep going back to. There's a lot of people that will play the default no matter what it is because they don't want to bother customizing their character and want to get into the game.

[Sebby]

marshalleck wrote...

JuGonzo wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Well, except the fact remains that people who loudly decry the "loss" of non-human origins (despite the fact it's not a loss at all, rather a continuation of a status quo) all have DA2 registered to their BSN accounts. So I think very few people indeed will actually stick to their guns and not buy DA3 solely based on a lack of non-human options, as some have claimed they will do.

Well, I will.

I like to play RPG. And RPG means possibility of choice to create a character. If I haven't it, I prefer to play Final Fantasy. 

Oh, so KOTOR and Planescape Torment weren't RPGs in your opinion. Alright.

Some on here confuse LARPing with RPGs.

[TMZuk]

In Exile wrote...

TMZuk wrote...
No, I don't think you should do that. What I do think would be common sense is to ask ~why~ does Skyrim sell so much? What does it offer that your games do not?

It's first person and you can kill NPCs. That's my theory. You can go around and cause mayhem and chaos and generally screw around in a hilarious way with your deformed NPC with a bulbous head named Fluffball.

I'm pretty damn certain your theory is utterly and completely wrong. I know quite a few TES fans, and none of them plays the game like that. What fascinates the major part of them is the exploration.

[The Elder King]

JuGonzo wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Well, except the fact remains that people who loudly decry the "loss" of non-human origins (despite the fact it's not a loss at all, rather a continuation of a status quo) all have DA2 registered to their BSN accounts. So I think very few people indeed will actually stick to their guns and not buy DA3 solely based on a lack of non-human options, as some have claimed they will do.

Well, I will.

I like to play RPG. And RPG means possibility of choice to create a character. If I haven't it, I prefer to play Final Fantasy. 

So you didn't play KOTOR? I'm not saying that DA2 is as good as KOTOR (Outside the BG games, KOTOR is my favourite Bioware game,),but in my opinion the fact that there'll not be a race options doesn't mean that DA3 will not be a RPG. There might be other features, other reason that together with the lack of race option could lead people to say that DA3 isn't a RPG, but a single feature couldn't be that fundamental in dividing which games are RPG and which aren't.
I'd have liked to have race options back, but I made up my mind that we'll not get them back months ago. And as I said, I've enjoyed other RPG without the race options.

Modifié par hhh89, 26 octobre 2012 - 12:44 .

[JuGonzo]

marshalleck wrote...

JuGonzo wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Well, except the fact remains that people who loudly decry the "loss" of non-human origins (despite the fact it's not a loss at all, rather a continuation of a status quo) all have DA2 registered to their BSN accounts. So I think very few people indeed will actually stick to their guns and not buy DA3 solely based on a lack of non-human options, as some have claimed they will do.

Well, I will.

I like to play RPG. And RPG means possibility of choice to create a character. If I haven't it, I prefer to play Final Fantasy. 

Oh, so KOTOR and Planescape Torment weren't RPGs in your opinion. Alright.

Quest for Glory was a RPG for me because was what they could do in that time. No much options, but the few are good (Magic User, Thief and Warrior - but the same blond guy - 1989). Same to Planescape, they decided to focus on the history. Fair enough. 

However the logical is ADD choices with the time. 

If Dragon Age: O hadn't racials choices ok... but why remove them now? 

[The Elder King]

Seboist wrote...

marshalleck wrote...



 Oh, so KOTOR and Planescape Torment weren't RPGs in your opinion. Alright.

Some on here confuse LARPing with RPGs.

And some people still don't understand that people have different opinions in defining what is an RPG.

Modifié par hhh89, 26 octobre 2012 - 12:43 .

[SpunkyMonkey]

KOTOR is a silly example of non-human "RPG success" - again, it is set in a world where we don't expect to experience everything through the eyes of an alien.

Western FRPGs and LOTR type environments are all about that other race experience.

Bioware have dropped the ball being so stubborn on this - it immediately distances the game with one of the great things about many of it's FRPG titles, and immeadiately sets the standard that we are getting more DA:2.

Modifié par SpunkyMonkey, 26 octobre 2012 - 12:50 .

[marshalleck]

JuGonzo wrote...

If Dragon Age: O hadn't racials choices ok... but why remove them now? 

Bioware have already answered this question repeatedly. The answer is because the non-human origins in DAO were so relatively underplayed, and because a human protagonist best fits the story they want to tell. LIke it or not, those are their reasons.

[marshalleck]

hhh89 wrote...

Seboist wrote...

marshalleck wrote...



 Oh, so KOTOR and Planescape Torment weren't RPGs in your opinion. Alright.

Some on here confuse LARPing with RPGs.

And some people still don't understand that people have different opinions in defining what is an RPG.

It's categorically stupid to say "if it doesn't have race selection it's not an RPG" as there are many salient and valid examples to the contrary.

[JuGonzo]

marshalleck wrote...

JuGonzo wrote...

If Dragon Age: O hadn't racials choices ok... but why remove them now? 

Bioware have already answered this question repeatedly. The answer is because the non-human origins in DAO were so relatively underplayed, and because a human protagonist best fits the story they want to tell. LIke it or not, those are their reasons.

A lame reason.

How I said, they must add choices, not remove them.

[marshalleck]

dheer wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

JuGonzo wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

AustinKain wrote...
I am sure its been said before,but i am going to say it again. IF you are going to force us to play a human after the success of the elves and dwarves in origins,

que?

the origins that only 10% of the player base even started (and didn't necessarily finish)?

Strange percentage.

if you think there are 3 elven origins and 2 dwarves origins against only 2 human origins... 

That's the point. Despite the numerous non-human origins available, the human origins were the ones played by a vast majority. Bioware are obviously keenly aware of this metric (which they publicly announced themselves) and have decided that spending so much time working on content that will appeal to such a small and vocal minority isn't really worth the cost of using those zots elsewhere on content for everyone.

How much of that margain was an actual choice of human or was inflated because it was the default option? I don't think we'll ever really know and it makes this number pretty pointless to keep going back to. There's a lot of people that will play the default no matter what it is because they don't want to bother customizing their character and want to get into the game.

And how exactly is that an argument for creating more options if there are a lot of people who will just ignore them and play whatever selection the cursor defaults to? If anything, it supports Bioware's decision to focus on integrating one protagonist into the game. 

Modifié par marshalleck, 26 octobre 2012 - 12:51 .

[Sidney]

TMZuk wrote...

In Exile wrote...

TMZuk wrote...
No, I don't think you should do that. What I do think would be common sense is to ask ~why~ does Skyrim sell so much? What does it offer that your games do not?

It's first person and you can kill NPCs. That's my theory. You can go around and cause mayhem and chaos and generally screw around in a hilarious way with your deformed NPC with a bulbous head named Fluffball.

I'm pretty damn certain your theory is utterly and completely wrong. I know quite a few TES fans, and none of them plays the game like that. What fascinates the major part of them is the exploration.

Yes and I know quite a few people who bought Skyrim because it is basically a FPS in the middle ages to them. You can quite easily play the game w/o all that annoying RPG'ing stuff because wandering around (which isn't RPG gaming) and killing random crap for no reason staring down the "sight" of a bow and arrow works. There's none of that annoying party/tactical stuff going on.

I've never understood why the RPG crwod stands behind the TES games. The combat has no real relationship to an RPG - if you are good at CoD you will be good at Skyrim. There's no decent plot. Your character has no personality at all. The only "appeal" of the game is to wander about to generic dungeons, killing generic monsters so you can get stuff to make custom weapons. Then again, listing to people caterwaul about follower armor and racial selection it appears a lot of RPGers are really more about aesthetics than actually role playing a character.

[JuGonzo]

marshalleck wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

Seboist wrote...

marshalleck wrote...



 Oh, so KOTOR and Planescape Torment weren't RPGs in your opinion. Alright.

Some on here confuse LARPing with RPGs.

And some people still don't understand that people have different opinions in defining what is an RPG.

It's categorically stupid to say "if it doesn't have race selection it's not an RPG" as there are many salient and valid examples to the contrary.

As I said, Quest for Glory is a RPG for me.

In 1989 was acceptable only three options to create your character (and only a human male character)

In 2012 sounds laziness for me.