3855 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

And how exactly is that an argument for creating more options if there are a lot of people who will just ignore them and play whatever selection the cursor defaults to? If anything, it supports Bioware's decision to focus on integrating one protagonist into the game.

What would you say if there was a game with only an elf protagonist?

[The Elder King]

marshalleck wrote...

hhh89 wrote...
And some people still don't understand that people have different opinions in defining what is an RPG.

It's categorically stupid to say "if it doesn't have race selection it's not an RPG" as there are many salient and valid examples to the contrary.

I agree on that. Seboist's post make me remember about the various threads on the "What is an RPG" topic, which apparead during both DA2 and ME3 development (probably before too, but I wasn't part of the community) and which will probably appear during DA3 development.

[Medhia Nox]

I imagine that the Inquistor will be fixing the mage/templar war.

Why would an elf or dwarf be allowed to preside over such an event?

====

I hope you guys never play a Conan RPG - because you get pale human, dark human, other dark human, olive human, etc.

And it's awesome.

====

I'd probably skip a game with an elf protagonist - and not whine about being left out.

And I would probably love a game with a dwarf protagonist.

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 26 octobre 2012 - 12:56 .

[marshalleck]

JuGonzo wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

Seboist wrote...

marshalleck wrote...



 Oh, so KOTOR and Planescape Torment weren't RPGs in your opinion. Alright.

Some on here confuse LARPing with RPGs.

And some people still don't understand that people have different opinions in defining what is an RPG.

It's categorically stupid to say "if it doesn't have race selection it's not an RPG" as there are many salient and valid examples to the contrary.

As I said, Quest for Glory is a RPG for me.

In 1989 was acceptable only three options to create your character (and only a human male character)

In 2012 sounds laziness for me.

How would The Witcher series work with race selection? It's your personal expectations that are flawed, not an inherent truth about this genre that "RPGs always allow race selection."

[The Elder King]

Xilizhra wrote...

And how exactly is that an argument for creating more options if there are a lot of people who will just ignore them and play whatever selection the cursor defaults to? If anything, it supports Bioware's decision to focus on integrating one protagonist into the game.

What would you say if there was a game with only an elf protagonist?

I'd personally play it, if the game seems interesting. I don't know about a dwarf-only protagonist, but that's because there's a class restriction. I'll probably consider it.

[Sidney]

SpunkyMonkey wrote...

KOTOR is a silly example of non-human "RPG success" - again, it is set in a world where we don't expect to experience everything through the eyes of an alien.

Western FRPGs and LOTR type environments are all about that other race experience.

Bioware have dropped the ball being so stubborn on this - it immediately distances the game with one of the great things about many of it's FRPG titles, and immeadiately sets the standard that we are getting more DA:2.

There is no other race experience in BG1/2. What difference does your racial selection make? None, you might as well tell us RPG's are about getting the red headed experience. DAO has a teeny tiny bit of "experience" because every 10 hours in the game some random mercahnt will call you "knife ears" or "shem" based on your race. Other than that....really diddly. As for medevial games. TW2 has non-human races and you can't play as any of them.  PST is a fantasy setting (I guess) no selection going on there either. Not sure why we don't expect to play as non-humans in KoTOR since there was no game establishing that we'd not be able to be a Twilek before KoTOR.

[marshalleck]

Medhia Nox wrote...

I imagine that the Inquistor will be fixing the mage/templar war.

Why would an elf or dwarf be allowed to preside over such an event?

====

I hope you guys never play a Conan RPG - because you get pale human, dark human, other dark human, olive human, etc.

And it's awesome.

====

I'd probably skip a game with an elf protagonist - and not whine about being left out.

And I would probably love a game with a dwarf protagonist.

Well, in DAO you get the above "Conan" humans, then you also get pointy eared human, and drunk midget human. The attachment to pointy ears and short stature is almost fetishistic on BSN, I think.

[The Elder King]

Tesclo wrote...

Let me try to wrap my head around this. People have been complaining since this was announced for Dragon Age 2 and, even after the disaster that was Dragon Age 2, a developer thought it was a good idea to ask the same people the same question again? Is this really what is happening here?

Are you talking about the purpose of this thread? There were numerous threads about this topic, so Allan Shumacher decided to make a thread to direct the discussion in a single thread.

[Medhia Nox]

@marshalleck: Amen to that.

Seriously - Bioware, just give the elf/dwarf players a phenotype each and it'll appease them. (Well, of course it won't - nothing appeases the BSN!)

[Sidney]

Xilizhra wrote...

And how exactly is that an argument for creating more options if there are a lot of people who will just ignore them and play whatever selection the cursor defaults to? If anything, it supports Bioware's decision to focus on integrating one protagonist into the game.

What would you say if there was a game with only an elf protagonist?

Good. That would be more interesting, honestly, than a human only protagonist. The "elven experience" in Thedas is dramatically different than the human one. You could make a game that really explored that exploitation and discrimination -- something DAO couldn't do because it was busy trying to be generic enough to tell any tale.

[JuGonzo]

marshalleck wrote...

JuGonzo wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

Seboist wrote...

marshalleck wrote...



 Oh, so KOTOR and Planescape Torment weren't RPGs in your opinion. Alright.

Some on here confuse LARPing with RPGs.

And some people still don't understand that people have different opinions in defining what is an RPG.

It's categorically stupid to say "if it doesn't have race selection it's not an RPG" as there are many salient and valid examples to the contrary.

As I said, Quest for Glory is a RPG for me.

In 1989 was acceptable only three options to create your character (and only a human male character)

In 2012 sounds laziness for me.

How would The Witcher series work with race selection? It's your personal expectations that are flawed, not an inherent truth about this genre that "RPGs always allow race selection."

You refuse to understand.

Dragon Age: O had race selection.

They remove them... the series lost.
 

[Medhia Nox]

Also - I love the dwarves of Dragon Age - not because they have beards and are short and robust.

I love them because of the culture designed for them. I find it familiar (underground - "The Stone" - etc) while also being very fresh.

I seriously doubt most elf players have a passion for playing oppressed people - instead, I think most people pick elf for the "skinny/pretty" cliche.

[marshalleck]

I understand perfectly well JuGonzo. I just disagree with your assessment of how integral race selection is to the characterization of an RPG protagonist.

To paraphrase a man much more wise than myself, what matters is what a person does, not what they look like.

Modifié par marshalleck, 26 octobre 2012 - 01:04 .

[Chaos Lord Malek]

Role Playing means living up with the character, affecting his choices and development. A character in RPG is evolving on line chosen by player. It has NOTHING to do with creating character.

You don't create character in Planescape Torment or Witcher, and those are among the best RPGs ever made, and true example to all. If Bioware decided to focus on story more, then they obviously cut out the races that doesn't fit it - a logical choice. We should be happy, that Bioware is giving us the option to chose our background and gender, which isn't presented in Planescape, while Witcher has 8 books forming the personality and past of Geralt.

And personally, i don't give a damn about the pathetic elves. True i like Dwarfs, they are made very well in DA universe, but this races are recycled million times over, i would prefer to have a new type of races in RPGs then copy+paste from Tolkien. Its being done to death.

[Sebby]

JuGonzo wrote...

You refuse to understand.

Dragon Age: O had race selection.

They remove them... the series lost.
 

And Dragon Age 2 didn't have race selection(note the lack of "Origins" in it's title). It's the status quo now, deal with it.

[SpunkyMonkey]

marshalleck wrote...

JuGonzo wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

Seboist wrote...

marshalleck wrote...



 Oh, so KOTOR and Planescape Torment weren't RPGs in your opinion. Alright.

Some on here confuse LARPing with RPGs.

And some people still don't understand that people have different opinions in defining what is an RPG.

It's categorically stupid to say "if it doesn't have race selection it's not an RPG" as there are many salient and valid examples to the contrary.

As I said, Quest for Glory is a RPG for me.

In 1989 was acceptable only three options to create your character (and only a human male character)

In 2012 sounds laziness for me.

How would The Witcher series work with race selection? It's your personal expectations that are flawed, not an inherent truth about this genre that "RPGs always allow race selection."

If they title this game "the Inquisitor" - remove ANY premise which sets it up as a "Dragon Age" game, and ignore a large majority of the previous 2 games, make it a dark, gritty RPG with a genuine medival "Witcher" feel far from the fantastical FRPG world that the DA series has already created then it could succeed.

Of course, you would lose a lot in that process.

Modifié par SpunkyMonkey, 26 octobre 2012 - 01:05 .

[Sebby]

hhh89 wrote...

And some people still don't understand that people have different opinions in defining what is an RPG.

To your dismay there is a set definition for RPG. LARPing as a self-insert or or whatever fan fiction that only exists in one's head does not make something an "RPG" any more than someone developing strategies in real time in Gears of War horde mode makes that game an "RTS".

As the ITers would say, the literalists are wrong here.

[The Elder King]

Medhia Nox wrote...

Also - I love the dwarves of Dragon Age - not because they have beards and are short and robust.

I love them because of the culture designed for them. I find it familiar (underground - "The Stone" - etc) while also being very fresh.

I seriously doubt most elf players have a passion for playing oppressed people - instead, I think most people pick elf for the "skinny/pretty" cliche.

I like the fact that elven magic is different from human magic (and I'd like to be further explored in a DA game, not necessary as an elf). I like the fact that elves (while immortals in the past) aren't immortals and aren't described as beings super powerful or with super powerful magics (their magic is different from human's, but not necessarily most powerful, and their magic isn't comparable with blood magic in power). I like the fact that the dalish live in clan, and are trying to restore their culture. I like dwarfs a lot too, and I liked playing as an elf or dwarf in DAO, but I liked playing as a human too, and the Cousland is my favourite Origins (though it'd have been my second one if there was an option of playing as a dalish mage). Though as I said, I don't find race option fundamental for an RPG and I wasn't expecting race option back in DA3.

[JuGonzo]

Seboist wrote...

JuGonzo wrote...

You refuse to understand.

Dragon Age: O had race selection.

They remove them... the series lost.
 

And Dragon Age 2 didn't have race selection(note the lack of "Origins" in it's title). It's the status quo now, deal with it.

No, I don't deal. I fell myself cheated and i'm not the only one.

Dragon Age3: dropped.

Modifié par JuGonzo, 26 octobre 2012 - 01:11 .

[The Elder King]

Seboist wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

And some people still don't understand that people have different opinions in defining what is an RPG.

To your dismay there is a set definition for RPG. LARPing as a self-insert or or whatever fan fiction that only exists in one's head does not make something an "RPG" any more than someone developing strategies in real time in Gears of War horde mode makes that game an "RTS".

As the ITers would say, the literalists are wrong here.

So do you think that with KOTOR and PS:T people are not playing a RPG?

Modifié par hhh89, 26 octobre 2012 - 01:12 .

[marshalleck]

hhh89:

Those are all cultural differences though. Put humans in their place and it would for most purposes be the same. The only slight stumbling point would be the loss of immortality thing with the elves, but since you never actually see any of that and Bioware haven't capitalized on it at all, I think it hardly matters. It would suffice to say the Dalish humans once had a grand empire, which has since fallen into ruin.

Modifié par marshalleck, 26 octobre 2012 - 01:12 .

[The Elder King]

marshalleck wrote...

hhh89:

Those are all cultural differences though. Put humans in their place and it would for most purposes be the same. The only slight stumbling point would be the loss of immortality thing with the elves, but since you never actually see any of that and Bioware haven't capitalized on it at all, I think it hardly matters. It would suffice to say the Dalish humans once had a grand empire, which has since fallen into ruin.

Well, there is the fact that elven magic seems different from human magic, which I don't know if it could be explained by having a different human realm. Though my point was explaining why I enjoyed playing with different races in DAO, not that those things couldn't have be present in different human realms. We already had the Rivaini which have a different culture  and society than the rest of humanity on Thedas, after all.

[Lord Nikon 001]

All I can say is we better have a HELL of a lot of customization options for this human. Planescape (one of my all time favorites) allowed you to fully customize your attributes, class and equipment. With only one race protag to worry about, we should all at least expect this.

[The h0bb1t]

I actually liked the choice of background and race in DA:o and made me play the game many times over. I actually DO care. I want it back...