57 réponses à ce sujet

[Medhia Nox]

I certainly hope they have selective hearing. Not one of you are game designers as far as I know (and neither am I) so - as professionals I'd appreciate if they "hear" what I say - but then, if I'm talking complete garbage... I hope they also ignore my "wants".

Maybe some of you feel like you should be personally obeyed - I'd prefer if they made a game they were passionate about, and then I have the choice whether to purchase it. Some people seem really upset that they "must" purchase a game not designed specifically for them.

I've had some serious criticisms for ME 3 - I hate the ending. And DA 2 - which drove me into a frothing rage for a good fifteen minutes upon finishing it. And I feel it "right" to voice that opinion - and I would hope those at Bioware would take criticism... even if not presented constructively - as part of the artistic process.

Certainly.. the candor on these forums is even better feedback than most other artists get face to face. And that can be put to good use.

But in no way do I feel the right to be outraged at not being listened to.

[TsaiMeLemoni]

xAmilli0n wrote...

*sigh* so here is the deal. There is a big difference between listening to criticism, and acting upon every complaint. Nobody does that...ever. It would never result in a good product.

This. We also need to bear in mind that we still know next to nothing about the game. But waiting would ruin the opportunity to bash Bioware at every turn, I suppose.

[upsettingshorts]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

To act like "not having race selections" is no big deal, when it is, is called "selective". All of the list of things wrong with DA2 and what they would like to see in DA3, race options was a major subject brought up. 

The people acting like it's not a big deal are other fans.

Jerrybnsn wrote...

Whether or not the fans wanted it was never an arguement.

Whoops.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 21 octobre 2012 - 07:36 .

[RandomSyhn]

It's not selective hearing. There is no way Bioware could not hear the valid complaints made about its games. But developing a game requires a lot of different pieces coming togther. Continuing with a human only protagonist is judgment call. They did not make that call to spite fans who wanted all races they did it because of they direction they want to take DAIII. It has also been stated that within the dragonage franchise there is intent to allow the player to play as different races. It just isn't the case for inquisition.

[spirosz]

TsaiMeLemoni wrote...

xAmilli0n wrote...

*sigh* so here is the deal. There is a big difference between listening to criticism, and acting upon every complaint. Nobody does that...ever. It would never result in a good product.

This. We also need to bear in mind that we still know next to nothing about the game. But waiting would ruin the opportunity to bash Bioware at every turn, I suppose.

Yep.

[spirosz]

OP has a selective mindset on what he wants the game to be. That should be the title.

[Adanu]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

Of all the complaints about DA2, and there were a lot of them. having a more limited protagonist as a human is one of the BIG ONES.

But what do they think the problem is limited to?  Reused maps and companion customization?

This isn't a thread to bring up all of the DA2 weaknesses in game play.  This is a thread to list what has bioware listened to of all the complaints about where the series is going.

Correction, you're whining like a spoiled brat because you didn't get your way perfectly when Origins and other humans take up a TON more work for very little gain on their part.

[Jerrybnsn]

spirosz wrote...

OP has a selective mindset on what he wants the game to be. That should be the title.

In all sincere honesty, I am just amazed that they are keeping this feature from DA2 and bringing it forward into DA3 when it was more than voiced that DA3 should have race selection.

Again, DA2's problem wasn't just reused maps as seems to be the only thing so far that they are not bringing back from DA2.

That's so far is the only thing I have had confirmed that they addressed from fans issues.

[Il Divo]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

spirosz wrote...

OP has a selective mindset on what he wants the game to be. That should be the title.

In all sincere honesty, I am just amazed that they are keeping this feature from DA2 and bringing it forward into DA3 when it was more than voiced that DA3 should have race selection.

Again, DA2's problem wasn't just reused maps as seems to be the only thing so far that they are not bringing back from DA2.

That's so far is the only thing I have had confirmed that they addressed from fans issues.

Considering they've barely confirmed anything about the game at all, that's already a huge step.

[unbentbuzzkill]

you know they are going to lockdown this thread bioware already has a human protag thread going filled with lots of people saying good i never playedanything burt human anyway.

[xAmilli0n]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

In all sincere honesty, I am just amazed that they are keeping this feature from DA2 and bringing it forward into DA3 when it was more than voiced that DA3 should have race selection.

And that is great.  But if it doesn't make sense for the story to have multiple races, why would they do it?  Now, they did awknowledge that there will be different backgrounds that may be incorporated (someone correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not exactly in the loop).  So what does this tell us?  They heard criticism, and are incorporating something similar that makes more sense with the narrative.

Just because people want something, doesn't mean it makes sense for the game.

[Wotannanow]

Il Divo wrote...

Jerrybnsn wrote...
Bioware has selective hearing.

So do the fans.

Well said.

[Chaos Lord Malek]

I understand more then anyone else could possible know, but... i don't understand what this guy is saying.

Even if i would try, it looks like you are contradicting your self in your own post. You saying that Bioware has selective hearing, yet you point out that DA2 had *other* problems then reused maps - those other problems are selective again - by yourself. Acting upon every individual problem would be impossible for Bioware - if you seen Bruce, the Almighty - he let everyone having his wish, which caused absolute anarchy. So Chaos, is the only true answer... to your post.

[leighzard]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

In all sincere honesty, I am just amazed that they are keeping this feature from DA2 and bringing it forward into DA3 when it was more than voiced that DA3 should have race selection.

Again, DA2's problem wasn't just reused maps as seems to be the only thing so far that they are not bringing back from DA2.

That's so far is the only thing I have had confirmed that they addressed from fans issues.

They've also indicated that there will be more customization for followers.  Another general fan concern.

For me, having to play as a human isn't a dealbreaker.  Don't get me wrong, I loved playing as an elf in DA:O, but I really didn't really miss it that much.  And I'm confident, I'm not the only one out there.

It seems to me like they are listening to feedback, but then BW gets to choose what pieces of that feedback to incorporate into DA3 (more varied environments, more customization), and what pieces are less important (race selection).  So I don't think it's their hearing that's selective.  The selectivity piece comes at much higher level.

Modifié par leborum, 21 octobre 2012 - 08:00 .

[Iakus]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

Of all the complaints about DA2, and there were a lot of them. having a more limited protagonist as a human is one of the BIG ONES.

But what do they think the problem is limited to?  Reused maps and companion customization?

This isn't a thread to bring up all of the DA2 weaknesses in game play.  This is a thread to list what has bioware listened to of all the complaints about where the series is going.

Yeah the protagonist is going to be human.  But this time it's a human with a selectable background, which is supposed ot have an effect on the story.  So in this case the character may well be less limited than Hawke, if not as broad as the Warden.

I say we find out more about this background and customization before we decide.

Modifié par iakus, 21 octobre 2012 - 07:59 .

[ianvillan]

Chaos Lord Malek wrote...

I understand more then anyone else could possible know, but... i don't understand what this guy is saying.

Even if i would try, it looks like you are contradicting your self in your own post. You saying that Bioware has selective hearing, yet you point out that DA2 had *other* problems then reused maps - those other problems are selective again - by yourself. Acting upon every individual problem would be impossible for Bioware - if you seen Bruce, the Almighty - he let everyone having his wish, which caused absolute anarchy. So Chaos, is the only true answer... to your post.

The main problem some fans have is that Bioware is mentioning the systems they are bringing back, and they are DA2 systems, where are the Origin systems.

My main problem is that Bioware has already stated that DA2 already had all the best features of Origins incorperated into it. So how can Bioware say that they plan to bring the best of both games in to DA3 when according to them there is nothing left from Origins that is any good.

[Atakuma]

ianvillan wrote...

Chaos Lord Malek wrote...

I understand more then anyone else could possible know, but... i don't understand what this guy is saying.

Even if i would try, it looks like you are contradicting your self in your own post. You saying that Bioware has selective hearing, yet you point out that DA2 had *other* problems then reused maps - those other problems are selective again - by yourself. Acting upon every individual problem would be impossible for Bioware - if you seen Bruce, the Almighty - he let everyone having his wish, which caused absolute anarchy. So Chaos, is the only true answer... to your post.

The main problem some fans have is that Bioware is mentioning the systems they are bringing back, and they are DA2 systems, where are the Origin systems.

My main problem is that Bioware has already stated that DA2 already had all the best features of Origins incorperated into it. So how can Bioware say that they plan to bring the best of both games in to DA3 when according to them there is nothing left from Origins that is any good.

Here's a suggestion. Wait untill we actually have some solid information on the game's features before freaking out about it.

[ianvillan]

Atakuma wrote...

ianvillan wrote...

Chaos Lord Malek wrote...

I understand more then anyone else could possible know, but... i don't understand what this guy is saying.

Even if i would try, it looks like you are contradicting your self in your own post. You saying that Bioware has selective hearing, yet you point out that DA2 had *other* problems then reused maps - those other problems are selective again - by yourself. Acting upon every individual problem would be impossible for Bioware - if you seen Bruce, the Almighty - he let everyone having his wish, which caused absolute anarchy. So Chaos, is the only true answer... to your post.

The main problem some fans have is that Bioware is mentioning the systems they are bringing back, and they are DA2 systems, where are the Origin systems.

My main problem is that Bioware has already stated that DA2 already had all the best features of Origins incorperated into it. So how can Bioware say that they plan to bring the best of both games in to DA3 when according to them there is nothing left from Origins that is any good.

Here's a suggestion. Wait untill we actually have some solid information on the game's features before freaking out about it.

So if voiced protagonist, dialogue wheel, paraphrasing, human only character are not solid enougth information then what is.

[frostajulie]

Ugh, I agree OP part of the magic of origins were the origins. DA2 was just ME rehashed in a different universe. This is ok when the story is good but it drastically limits replay value. I replayed DA2 8 times and it was a real chore after the 3rd. By contrast I replayed DAO at least 30 times before it felt like a chore. If DA3 is going with 1 playable race I hope the storytelling improves But hey I'm on the sidelines anyway Fan reviews and Youtube will decide me getting this game anyway so feel free to completely ignore me.

[John Epler]

ianvillan wrote...

Chaos Lord Malek wrote...

I understand more then anyone else could possible know, but... i don't understand what this guy is saying.

Even if i would try, it looks like you are contradicting your self in your own post. You saying that Bioware has selective hearing, yet you point out that DA2 had *other* problems then reused maps - those other problems are selective again - by yourself. Acting upon every individual problem would be impossible for Bioware - if you seen Bruce, the Almighty - he let everyone having his wish, which caused absolute anarchy. So Chaos, is the only true answer... to your post.

The main problem some fans have is that Bioware is mentioning the systems they are bringing back, and they are DA2 systems, where are the Origin systems.

My main problem is that Bioware has already stated that DA2 already had all the best features of Origins incorperated into it. So how can Bioware say that they plan to bring the best of both games in to DA3 when according to them there is nothing left from Origins that is any good.

It's not unfair or unjustifiable to have reservations, honestly. Thus far, we've talked a lot about what we're not going to have - this is, of course, because it's a lot easier to say 'we aren't doing this' as opposed to 'this is something we're doing', because in the latter case, it's not particularly useful to tell you about what you are getting unless we can show you examples, give you in-depth information, etc., and some things are still in flux. Whereas with 'we aren't doing this', that's pretty much it. The most notable piece of information in that case is what we've already told you.

We are committed to bringing back the parts of Origin that we feel make DA3 the kind of game it needs to be, and they -are- coming - we just can't talk about it yet. That sucks, and it makes it difficult on you guys, but I'm hoping that, once we -are- ready to show it, you'll understand what we mean.

[Isaidlunch]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

In all sincere honesty, I am just amazed that they are keeping this feature from DA2 and bringing it forward into DA3 when it was more than voiced that DA3 should have race selection.

Again, DA2's problem wasn't just reused maps as seems to be the only thing so far that they are not bringing back from DA2.

That's so far is the only thing I have had confirmed that they addressed from fans issues.

They've addressed quite a lot of fan concerns:

- More tactical combat
- Companion customization
- Greater scope
- Multiple backgrounds
- More player agency

Whether they actually deliver is another thing, but you can't accuse them of not addressing DA2's issues.

Modifié par Kazanth, 21 octobre 2012 - 08:13 .

[upsettingshorts]

ianvillan wrote...

So if voiced protagonist, dialogue wheel, paraphrasing, human only character are not solid enougth information then what is.

Make a list of literally every single difference between DAO and DA2, not just including stuff you personally view as important distinctions, and see how many they've covered so far?

The list of things they've even talked about is going to be much shorter than that list.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 21 octobre 2012 - 08:13 .

[CuriousArtemis]

frostajulie wrote...

I replayed DA2 8 times and it was a real chore after the 3rd. By contrast I replayed DAO at least 30 times before it felt like a chore.  

But see examples like this are completely subjective. I enjoyed DA2 vastly more than DAO and find DAO a chore to complete these days. I've got at least 10 completed DA2 games and several that are in the works. I enjoy each and every one and look forward to picking up the controller when I have a chance. On the other hand, I'm currently trying to make my third "complete" DAO playthrough, and it's just painful. I had to stop and go back to DA2. Do I think that's because DAO is a bad game? No, it just didn't appeal to me as much as DA2 did. Different strokes for different folks.