130 réponses à ce sujet

[Sylvius the Mad]

Lenimph wrote...

The keyword here is OPTION 

Console players only have one way of navigating the dialog wheel while PC players have 2 and using a mouse to pick said option is practically identical to using an analog stick.  Personally I feel numbers next to the wheel would have been a poor aethetic choice on the pc version.  Maybe a WASD or directional keys approach would have been better but it seems like a trivial complaint to me when theres the capability of using a mouse.

Having to grab a separate input device is something they didn't make users of the other platforms do.

Without the tactical camera in DA2, there's almost no reason ever to use the mouse outside of vendors or populating hotbars.  In normal gameplay, everything else is keyboard driven.

[SpEcIaLRyAn]

WhiteThunder wrote...

Use the dialogue system from DE: HR or The Witcher franchise where you actually get to choose what you are saying. The only people I've ever heard complain about seeing their responses in their entirety are David Gaider and Mike Laidlaw. It's obnoxious that they insist that their dislike of knowing exactly what their character is going to say before he says it is a universal truth.

I myself wouldn't mind seeing my whole response in its eniterity.

However I think the reason Gaider and Laidlaw don't like this because if I were to read read my options in their entirety and than my character than says it I think to myself, "I already read it I don't need to hear him/her say it." The paraphrases gives a level of unpredictability to dialogue which I like.

I also wouldn't mind reading the whole option as you see I am open minded. Thats what I think may be the reason behind why they dislike it. I could be wrong.

[Sylvius the Mad]

SpEcIaLRyAn wrote...

However I think the reason Gaider and Laidlaw don't like this because if I were to read read my options in their entirety and than my character than says it I think to myself, "I already read it I don't need to hear him/her say it."

In fact, the reason they gave was that it caused players to skip past the voiced line.  And I still don't see how that's a problem.  If we had the full text, that's probably what I would do, as well (not to avoid the repetition, but to avoid the voice).

The paraphrases gives a level of unpredictability to dialogue which I like.

How is that something anyone likes?  If you don't know what's coming, how can you have chosen it?  Or perhaps I should ask how you do choose it, given that you don't know what it will be.

I seriously don't get this.  Your character has a unque point of view.  Only your character has that exact perspective.  So when you choose an option, you choose one that suits your character.  if the actual line then differs from that, it might no longer suit your character.  How do you choose when you can't tell what you're choosing?

I found myself paralysed with indecision during many of DA2's conversations.

[Lenimph]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Having to grab a separate input device is something they didn't make users of the other platforms do.

So what you put your mouse away when you're playing DA2? 

[Palipride47]

Eveangaline wrote...

Anomander Rake wrote...

What annoys me the most is that I end up, instead of actually reading the options I just consistently pick the sarcastic/charming or Diplomatic/Helpful options. I know this is really my fault but it didn't happen with DA:0.

I felt like I had to pick certain things because of how your options and voice would change if you picked too much of one thing.

I mean my hawke isn't very agressive, but there are things that would ****** them off, but I was afraid if I picked the harsher options I might lock myself in as a grumpyhawke. Or if I picked too many silly options, I might sound entirey innoppropriate later when trying to be serious.

I think in the Dark Ages, someone posted a convo with Hawke on the Youtubes, where you chose different personality response options and they sounded like a psychopath. Can't find it, but that was kinda why I always sorta picked snarky ass Hawke. (Diplomatic Hawke was too saccharine and Aggro Hawke too much of an ass of the serious variety)

[Sylvius the Mad]

Lenimph wrote...

So what you put your mouse away when you're playing DA2? 

Effectively, yes.  During conversations, my hand isn't on it.

As a result, I found ME2's interrupts endlessly frustrating, as there wasn't enough time after spotting the icon to grab my mouse and click the button.

[eroeru]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

I wouldn't mind the wheel as much if it A) didn't have paraphrases, didn't have vague, unexplained icons (I'm still scratching my head how a diamond means charming, exactly), C) didn't always have the same option in the same spot (where I can choose a diplomatic option every time without even looking at what the words may say just by going "upper right, upper right, upper right" at every opportunity) and D) no putting the investigate option in its own spot. I don't mind having a sub-menu, but labeling every investigate option as an investigate option takes any sense of spontaneity out of the conversation. Knowing EXACTLY what options will move things forward and which will keep things static and only add background knowledge is a buzz kill. It tells me psychologically that I can take it easy for the next few minutes while an NPC does a data dump of information. Instead of keeping me engaged to actively try and avoid options that move the conversation forward until I am ready.

This. Though I'd vouch for an option to lose icons entirely.

Knowing what a line's function is, i.e. how NPCs will react to it is a no-no. But knowing what the exact line is (as opposed to what it will do), is a must if I'm to have my own character.

These principles are pillars of role-playing.

[Berty213]

Couldn't they do a DA:O style conversations system but have it voiced over. This way the people who like the voiced protagonist get what they want and the people who want to know what there character is about to say, get what they want. Personally I'm for the silent protagonist, like DA:O, Skyrim and the Fallout games, but I would be happy with this.

[Darth Death]

I like the dialogue tree more. It felt like you could express your character's intent more effectively than using the dialogue wheel, but then again this could be because the protagonist is silent. Regardless, liked the dialogue tree better.

[zyntifox]

Darth Death wrote...

I like the dialogue tree more. It felt like you could express your character's intent more effectively than using the dialogue wheel, but then again this could be because the protagonist is silent. Regardless, liked the dialogue tree better.

So do i. But Bioware seems to come with the dialogue wheel in all their games nowadays for some reason.

[budzai]

Cstaf wrote...

Darth Death wrote...

I like the dialogue tree more. It felt like you could express your character's intent more effectively than using the dialogue wheel, but then again this could be because the protagonist is silent. Regardless, liked the dialogue tree better.

So do i. But Bioware seems to come with the dialogue wheel in all their games nowadays for some reason.

I don't know that reason neither... maybe childern, console players or they just stupid?

[Berty213]

budzai wrote...

I don't know that reason neither... maybe childern, console players or they just stupid?

Well I heard that DA:O didn't play well on consoles, so instead on trying to improve it, they changed how the game played entirely for DA2.

[Palipride47]

Berty213 wrote...

budzai wrote...

I don't know that reason neither... maybe childern, console players or they just stupid?

Well I heard that DA:O didn't play well on consoles, so instead on trying to improve it, they changed how the game played entirely for DA2.

DA:O plays horribly on consoles, the point of a fair amount of DA2 combat bits (like the telporting backstab) was to make it more console-friendly. 

[zyntifox]

Berty213 wrote...

budzai wrote...

I don't know that reason neither... maybe childern, console players or they just stupid?

Well I heard that DA:O didn't play well on consoles, so instead on trying to improve it, they changed how the game played entirely for DA2.

Don't know about Xbox360 but i have played about 8 playthroughs of DA:O on the PS3 and the only complaint i have is the lack of move-to-point command which can make certain battles though.

[ianvillan]

Palipride47 wrote...

Berty213 wrote...

budzai wrote...

I don't know that reason neither... maybe childern, console players or they just stupid?

Well I heard that DA:O didn't play well on consoles, so instead on trying to improve it, they changed how the game played entirely for DA2.

DA:O plays horribly on consoles, the point of a fair amount of DA2 combat bits (like the telporting backstab) was to make it more console-friendly. 

Not just the combat bits but the dialogue and UI as well seem to be designed solely for the consoles.

[zyntifox]

Palipride47 wrote...

Berty213 wrote...

budzai wrote...

I don't know that reason neither... maybe childern, console players or they just stupid?

Well I heard that DA:O didn't play well on consoles, so instead on trying to improve it, they changed how the game played entirely for DA2.

DA:O plays horribly on consoles, the point of a fair amount of DA2 combat bits (like the telporting backstab) was to make it more console-friendly. 

Well for me the combat in DA2 only forced me to pause and issue commands more often. So i don't see it as improved only tedious. But i had the same problem when i used the haste spell in DA:O.

[Caiden012]

Palipride47 wrote...

Berty213 wrote...

budzai wrote...

I don't know that reason neither... maybe childern, console players or they just stupid?

Well I heard that DA:O didn't play well on consoles, so instead on trying to improve it, they changed how the game played entirely for DA2.

DA:O plays horribly on consoles, the point of a fair amount of DA2 combat bits (like the telporting backstab) was to make it more console-friendly. 

Horribly is not the word I would use. But the game definatly plays better on the PC and I can understand that Bioware would want to make combat more enjoyable for console users with DA2. But when I played it on the PC it felt a bit strange. I was able to adjust but DA:O just sat better with me when I play on PC.

[ianvillan]

Caiden012 wrote...

Palipride47 wrote...

Berty213 wrote...

budzai wrote...

I don't know that reason neither... maybe childern, console players or they just stupid?

Well I heard that DA:O didn't play well on consoles, so instead on trying to improve it, they changed how the game played entirely for DA2.

DA:O plays horribly on consoles, the point of a fair amount of DA2 combat bits (like the telporting backstab) was to make it more console-friendly. 

Horribly is not the word I would use. But the game definatly plays better on the PC and I can understand that Bioware would want to make combat more enjoyable for console users with DA2. But when I played it on the PC it felt a bit strange. I was able to adjust but DA:O just sat better with me when I play on PC.

Bioware seems to go from one extreme to the other with the dragon age games, either it is good on PC but bad on consoles or good on consoles and bad on PC.

[Palipride47]

Cstaf wrote...

Well for me the combat in DA2 only forced me to pause and issue commands more often. So i don't see it as improved only tedious. But i had the same problem when i used the haste spell in DA:O.

That's what I heard, I only play PC games.....to me, from what I have heard, it just made everyone (console and PC players) mad. 

[Berty213]

ianvillan wrote...

Bioware seems to go from one extreme to the other with the dragon age games, either it is good on PC but bad on consoles or good on consoles and bad on PC.

Maybe in DA3 they will meet in the middle

Modifié par Berty213, 22 octobre 2012 - 04:45 .

[ianvillan]

Berty213 wrote...

ianvillan wrote...

Bioware seems to go from one extreme to the other with the dragon age games, either it is good on PC but bad on consoles or good on consoles and bad on PC.

Maybe in DA3 they will meet in the middle

Yes but which good on both or bad on both.

[Atakuma]

ianvillan wrote...
Bioware seems to go from one extreme to the other with the dragon age games, either it is good on PC but bad on consoles or good on consoles and bad on PC.

DA2 was not bad at all on PC.

[mopotter]

I've got DA:O for the pc and for the 360. I don't have a problem with either. I got the 360 first and then eventually got the pc version for the cool mods. I eventually took it off the pc and i still play it on the 360.

As far as the dialogue wheel goes, for the most part I like. I tend to go for the polite response more often that not, but I do have times when snarky or even rude is appropriate for my character. I don't need to know the exact words, but I do want them to be different for each emotion. I don't want the same words for all responses. Part of the replay joy for me is seeing what they say. That's not so much fun when they say the exact same thing.

My character being told something the NPC thinks is good. I don't want - "I'm so happy for you" in a happy tone, Then "I'm so happy for you" in a sarcastic tone. Then I'm so happy for you" in a I don't give a **## tone. Which has happened in other games.

I Loved the 3 choices in ME1 when Fem Shepard is talking to Harkin.

[SpEcIaLRyAn]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
In fact, the reason they gave was that it caused players to skip past the voiced line.  And I still don't see how that's a problem.  If we had the full text, that's probably what I would do, as well (not to avoid the repetition, but to avoid the voice).

How is that something anyone likes?  If you don't know what's coming, how can you have chosen it?  Or perhaps I should ask how you do choose it, given that you don't know what it will be.

I seriously don't get this.  Your character has a unque point of view.  Only your character has that exact perspective.  So when you choose an option, you choose one that suits your character.  if the actual line then differs from that, it might no longer suit your character.  How do you choose when you can't tell what you're choosing?

I found myself paralysed with indecision during many of DA2's conversations.

I should clarify then. What I mean is that if I get the jist of the option than I can make a choice as to what to say. I will agree that a lot of the times the paraphrases don't often give a good idea of what we are going to say.

What I mean by unpredictability however is for example in Mass Effect 1, the paraphrase is "That's.......large." But the actual line said is "We are going to need bigger guns." When it is like that I don't mind not knowing the full details of what I am choosing. But if for example the paraphrase were to say, "What is that?!" but the actual line said is "We are going to need bigger guns." thats when I don't like it. I don't mind a little unpredictability in conversation as long as I know the options I am choosing are going to give off the right response. Of which I will agree DA2 wasn't very clear a lot of the time.

Honestly at that point I was still playing RPGs with the idea of being the "good guy" first and the "bad guy" second time around. I now play as I would react in the situations given to me. So yes I agree it is hard to make an important and informed decision based on the poorness of the paraphrases.

Modifié par SpEcIaLRyAn, 22 octobre 2012 - 07:25 .

[Palipride47]

Berty213 wrote...

ianvillan wrote...

Bioware seems to go from one extreme to the other with the dragon age games, either it is good on PC but bad on consoles or good on consoles and bad on PC.

Maybe in DA3 they will meet in the middle

NO COMPROMISE!!!!