130 réponses à ce sujet

[PinkysPain]

If you didn't have a HDTV you were in for some pain with DA:O on consoles ... is that really still a problem though?

[Perlicka]

<- not fan of the wheel

[Sylvius the Mad]

SpEcIaLRyAn wrote...

I will agree that a lot of the times the paraphrases don't often give a good idea of what we are going to say.

Yes, I found this extremely frustrating.

BioWare says they're making some changes to improve them.

[Fast Jimmy]

PinkysPain wrote...

If you didn't have a HDTV you were in for some pain with DA:O on consoles ... is that really still a problem though?

I've found this seems to be true of a ton of games recently. Do people not complain about this during testing? I feel like I need a telescope to read printed text. As a guy who uses subtitles in every game I play, this is a HUGE issue for me... and I have a HDTV.

[Maria Caliban]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Do people not complain about this during testing?

They don't sit in a living room testing it on a regular TV. They sit in a cubicale with their nose pressed to the high-definition monitor.

[Fast Jimmy]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Do people not complain about this during testing?

They don't sit in a living room testing it on a regular TV. They sit in a cubicale with their nose pressed to the high-definition monitor.

Well... I'm going to write my congress man about it. 

[Maria Caliban]

I think Allan stated he'd try to keep that in mind while he tested, but he's a tool guy.

[SpEcIaLRyAn]

After DA2 a lot of things need fixing so I hope they do in fact get fixed like they say they are doing.

[ImperatorMortis]

I hate the Dialogue wheel with a passion, and I hope it will die.

Maria Caliban wrote...

I think Allan stated he'd try to keep that in mind while he tested, but he's a tool guy.

He's a "tool guy"? Are you saying he's a tool, or that he's good at fixing things? 

Modifié par ImperatorMortis, 23 octobre 2012 - 01:38 .

[FINE HERE]

ImperatorMortis wrote...

I hate the Dialogue wheel with a passion, and I hope it will die.

Seconded.

[Palipride47]

ImperatorMortis wrote...

I hate the Dialogue wheel with a passion, and I hope it will die.

Maria Caliban wrote...

I think Allan stated he'd try to keep that in mind while he tested, but he's a tool guy.

He's a "tool guy"? Are you saying he's a tool, or that he's good at fixing things? 

BOTH 

[zyntifox]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

SpEcIaLRyAn wrote...

I will agree that a lot of the times the paraphrases don't often give a good idea of what we are going to say.

Yes, I found this extremely frustrating.

BioWare says they're making some changes to improve them.

Sylvius what is a acceptable improvement of the paraphrases to you? Other than removing them that is. I have no idea how they could fix the paraphrases since i identify the problem of the paraphrase as not conveying the same amount of information as the full line.

[ianvillan]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

SpEcIaLRyAn wrote...

I will agree that a lot of the times the paraphrases don't often give a good idea of what we are going to say.

Yes, I found this extremely frustrating.

BioWare says they're making some changes to improve them.

They have said that as well for the past Mass Effect games and we still had the same problems.
I wonder if it is actually possible to make paraphrases better or if paraphrasing is always going to have the same problems no matter what Bioware does.

[azerSheppard]

the wheel should never have been introduced into DA, just like the ally/rival bs, i mean really, what is wrong with the like bar? You **** up too much and your palls shove a sword up your ass, i thought that was about as legit RP as it went. Then DAII happened.

[abnocte]

I'm far from happy with it as it is now.

For me it is not enough to know that my PC is going to be Good/Sarcastic/Aggressive, I want to choose her stance on things without having to be railroaled into a "personality type" because of it.

It doesn't make sense that I had to be "aggresive" just to oppose mages...

[SpEcIaLRyAn]

ianvillan wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

SpEcIaLRyAn wrote...

I will agree that a lot of the times the paraphrases don't often give a good idea of what we are going to say.

Yes, I found this extremely frustrating.

BioWare says they're making some changes to improve them.

They have said that as well for the past Mass Effect games and we still had the same problems.
I wonder if it is actually possible to make paraphrases better or if paraphrasing is always going to have the same problems no matter what Bioware does.

Paraphrasing should give you the jist of the option. Thus far in both Mass Effect and DA2 they have been average to subpar. If the option to choose is "I like cake" (Similar to Mike Ladilaws example.) and the actual voiced line comes out as "I'm in love with you." you can bet your ass I will have a problem with that.

[SpEcIaLRyAn]

abnocte wrote...

I'm far from happy with it as it is now.

For me it is not enough to know that my PC is going to be Good/Sarcastic/Aggressive, I want to choose her stance on things without having to be railroaled into a "personality type" because of it.

It doesn't make sense that I had to be "aggresive" just to oppose mages...

So what do you think they could do to make it better? Get rid of personality stacking? Make options for every personality to side with who they want?

[Darkstorne]

While I'm fine with the wheel and the number of choices it provides (Origins and Awakening only had three options to choose in the majority of dialogue scenes, and the wheel often allows for more with the left side options) I didn't like it in DA2.

In DA2, breaking responses into three distinctly different personality types meant that it was always a choice between one of three extremes, with no options in-between. If you selected the blue option, you were a white knight. The red option meant you were a tool. The purple option meant Hawke would make a bad joke, to which no one ever laughed at. 

[abnocte]

SpEcIaLRyAn wrote...

abnocte wrote...

I'm far from happy with it as it is now.

For me it is not enough to know that my PC is going to be Good/Sarcastic/Aggressive, I want to choose her stance on things without having to be railroaled into a "personality type" because of it.

It doesn't make sense that I had to be "aggresive" just to oppose mages...

So what do you think they could do to make it better? Get rid of personality stacking? Make options for every personality to side with who they want?

Sadly I don't have an answer other than to go back to silent protagonist... but it has been stated that is a no go.
I have suggested before an option of showing the full text ... but it has been stated that is a no go.

Personality stacking serves no purpose other than as a basis to auto-dialogue... which I can perfectly live without.

Making options for every personality is a high cost feature because of voice acting ( male AND female )... so I assume this is never going to be implemented even if I think this would be the solution.

All in all the wheel frustrates me because I see no viable option to improve it to a point that allows as much freedom as the silent PC. 

[AppealToReason]

I love it because I actually know when I'm asking a question versus what I think was a question but is actually me saying goodbye and then I can't reopen the chat and miss out on delicious dialogue lines,.

[DreamwareStudio]

See, this, this is what irks me. The majority of comments I see in regards to the dialogue wheel are negative. That is not to say no one likes it, but it is very evident the wheel is disfavored in the Dragon Age games. I'm not talking about just this board, but the feedback I've gotten from my friends as well as what I see in other social media and some reviews that I read. This compels me to wonder why EA insists on keeping a feature the majority of their customer base does not want. It's fairly obvious that paraphrasing and linking personality type to three extreme responses does not work in DA despite its success(?) with Mass Effect.

Modifié par google_calasade, 23 octobre 2012 - 10:10 .

[Brohammed]

I really dislike the dialogue wheel, or rather - how it is implemented in the games. The good/funny/bad responses all mapped out to the same positions is the definition of bad.

[Kidd]

I love the dialogue wheel. It's basically a pie menu, and pie menus are better for joystick and mouse use alike due to needing less travel. On PC you can also pick your options through the keyboard, though perhaps we could have some reminder of what they key is. 1-2-3 on the right side is very intuitive, 4-5-6 on the left side not as much (well, 5 aside I suppose). Does it go top to bottom like the right side or does it keep the clockwise pattern going? It's not at all obvious, although I suppose it's something you also pick up quickly enough.

The wheel also allows for more options and offers more clarity on structure for players and writers alike - allowing easier development for them and less reloads for us when we accidentally forward a conversation. You can't really go "wait, guys, before we go on I had one more question" very well in a cRPG after all.

Paraphrases are good because they lend the dialogue better to a voiced protagonist - though I'd imagine it's harder for the writers to consistently come up with fitting ones. If you pick options by colour alone and then get mad you don't get to RP, you've essentially shot yourself in the foot. I've never played a character who is consistently only diplomatic, snarky or aggressive, cause I can't imagine a character actually being that single-minded. That goes for DAO and DA2 alike.

ImperatorMortis wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

I think Allan stated he'd try to keep that in mind while he tested, but he's a tool guy.

He's a "tool guy"? Are you saying he's a tool, or that he's good at fixing things? 

Pretty sure she meant he writes tools that other people use. For a somewhat factually incorrect statement that still explains the nature of the beast, he creates the toolset the other developers create the game with. Only his tools aren't about the actual development of the game such as the toolset as we know it, rather he makes smaller tools that help with testing the game so other testers can try more things and look for more bugs with less work. Sounds very similar to what my boyfriend is working with =)

After all, you wouldn't want the testers to have to play through the game 50 or so times start to finish to look for rare bugs. If you want to try one exact game state, you want a tool that allows you to set that game state up for you real quick so you can focus on testing what it is you need to test.

Note: That's my extrapolation from what Maria said. I know Allan's written a few such applications but I dunno if that's his primary occupation.

[manreg]

Lots of stuff has already been said, so here`s my opinion.
I loved DAO for the variety of options, when each of them led to and amount of diverse answers, phrases and reactions. I had to think about what to say and how the character I`m speaking to might reply - and thus led to full interactive roleplay experience.

Unlike DAO in DA2 I was palying Hawk, the character who was already created and all I could do as a player was to customize that character`several features and his\\her role in the story up to certain point.

I want interaction. The communication options do have limitations in this menu. They are both limited themselves and by that limitating my roleplay.

What I`m saying is - not the round-shaped answer menu is the problem for me, but how it is/will be implemented in the game.

I loved DA2 nevertheless and dispite many flaws - the game had its spirit, charismatic characters and stories but ma-an how I wished not to be limited by the weel sometimes, to have and illusion (or the decision power) of choice I had in DAO!

[CaFe87]

For me it comes down to the reputation system in use. I hated the dialog wheel in ME2 because you had to stick to Renegade or Paragon to unlock all dialog options later in the game. They got rid of this in ME3 which could have made the wheel better, if they had not implemented that huge amount of auto-dialog.

What I love about the Origings system, is that I always had to stop and think what each options mean for me and my relation to my companions.