39 réponses à ce sujet

[Crypticqa]

I mean, if he is programmed to find a solution to peace, neither control or destroy are sure of that. In control AI still exist and in destroy, AI will eventually be created again O_o So why does he allow you pick those 2?

[AlanC9]

The Crucible overwrote his programming.

[Samtheman63]

control isnt possible, its a trick

beleive it or not holding 2 eletrical prongs does not turn you into an AI God, it kills you.


hes discourages destroy (pick it)

[Crypticqa]

If the Crucible is the Citadel, built by the reapers and Catalyst, why would he allow to overwrite himself? Unless there is stated in game that the Citadel is built by someone else?

Modifié par Crypticqa, 21 octobre 2012 - 08:23 .

[Fedi.St]

http://social.biowar...ndex/13419372/1

OP read this . Its a very good explanation with facts from the game and not speculation.

[RamilVenoard]

AlanC9 wrote...

The Crucible overwrote his programming.

False. The Crucible doesn't overwrite anything. It's simply a massive power source. Starbrat says so.

[jackkel dragon]

Believe it or not, it's possible to finish the game without enough EMS to unlock Synthesis. Whatever his logic is, the Catalyst thinks that taking out the Crucible for a spin is better than doing what he's done for millions of years, now that someone found his hiding spot. So he's willing to turn over the reigns (Control) or allow a short-sighted but effective plan (Destroy) to achieve peace. Plus, he's apparently not capable of interfacing with the Crucible directly, or he probably wouldn't let Shepard choose at all.

Also, the Catalyst doesn't really have a problem with AI. He is an AI. His job is to keep synthetics from causing mass extinction... even if his methods (turning organics into synthetics through extinction) is something you'd expect from a really drunk programmer and not a learning AI.

[Fixers0]

Because the writers wanted him to present those options.

[Samtheman63]

RamilVenoard wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

The Crucible overwrote his programming.

False. The Crucible doesn't overwrite anything. It's simply a massive power source. Starbrat says so.

starbrat also says that killing people and squashing them into the shells of robots hell bend on kiling billions of people is helping them "ascend"

[Nightwriter]

Even with the EC, the ending isn't what you'd call an example of clear writing.

The Catalyst says that the Crucible changed it, and also that the Crucible just created new possibilities, and also that "the Crucible itself is little more than a power source, crude but effective." This last is a bit of a contradiction to this "the Crucible overwrote its programming" theory pinging around. The Catalyst essentially says that the Crucible is just a generator that when plugged into the Citadel lets it do more stuff. When it puts it that way, it gives the impression the Crucible didn't actually upload any new programming into the Catalyst.

So you're left with "no one made the Catalyst give you other options, it gave you them of its own volition." Which doesn't make much sense, but then, neither does a lot of the ending. Just put it up there with "If fire burns, is it at war?" and "Synthesis failed when I forced people into it, but it will work if you force them into it."

[AlanC9]

RamilVenoard wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

The Crucible overwrote his programming.

False. The Crucible doesn't overwrite anything. It's simply a massive power source. Starbrat says so.

The precise line is " little more" than a power source, rather than only a power source.

Modifié par AlanC9, 21 octobre 2012 - 08:31 .

[David7204]

Because the current cycle defied his expectations. He acknowledges that Shepard understands something he doesn't. Thus, he hands the choice over to Shepard.

It had nothing to do with the Crucible.

Modifié par David7204, 21 octobre 2012 - 08:32 .

[Ithurael]

Fixers0 wrote...

Because the writers wanted him to present those options.

Endgame - speculations aside - this IS the best explanation

[Crypticqa]

So he is simply suprised by this cycle? Got it.
One would wish that IT was true

[AlanC9]

jackkel dragon wrote...

Believe it or not, it's possible to finish the game without enough EMS to unlock Synthesis. Whatever his logic is, the Catalyst thinks that taking out the Crucible for a spin is better than doing what he's done for millions of years, now that someone found his hiding spot. So he's willing to turn over the reigns (Control) or allow a short-sighted but effective plan (Destroy) to achieve peace. Plus, he's apparently not capable of interfacing with the Crucible directly, or he probably wouldn't let Shepard choose at all.

I don't see how the italed part works unless the AI is just really broken. There isn't any war at the time, and Destroy means that if one breaks out in the future there won't be any way to stop it.

But yeah, you can get to the endgame with either Control of Destroy as your only option, and the Catalyst can't stop you. Or won't, if you figure he's got any free will in the matter.

[David7204]

I suppose 'surprise' is a somewhat fitting word, yes.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 Because organics don't need him to save them anymore, they can destroy all synthetics if the need arises.

Therefore, Destroy is valid.

Control is obvious. If Shepard will go to such lengths to save the galaxy from the Reapers, he'll obviously do as much in control of them if another galactic threat arises.

[drayfish]

Isn't it obvious?

Because Shepard managed to stand on an arbitrary spot on the floor, the Catalyst realises that countless eons of genocidal destruction can be finally stopped by the having her make one of three arbitrary choices. And you know that the Catalyst has learned his lesson, because instead of arbitrarily using genocide, totalitarian brain washing, or eugenics to change the galaxy, he makes Shepard use genocide, totalitarian brain washing, or eugenics to remake the universe...

And it has to be done because it is inevitable that synthetics will destroy organics... Although it is also apparently inevitable that organics and synthetics with synthesise together (we're just speeding up the process after all) - even though the one 'inevitability' seems to utterly contradict the other...

...Yeah. Yeah, I guess that's all not so obvious after all.

In all seriousness though, the only way I can make sense of it is to think of the Reapers as the galactic war-crime training wheels for biological life. The Catalyst is finally satisfied that organics are resourceful enough to build something as powerful as the Crucible, and now they just have to prove themselves amorally willing to inflict horror upon the universe in order to save themselves.

Are you willing to genocide a friendly race to save your own skin? Cause if you are, no doubt you'll do it again in the future, so we Reapers can retire...

Are you willing to take on the leadership of almighty unstoppable space monsters and terrify the universe into compliance? Well then, here are the keys, we'll see ourselves out...

Are you willing to mutate everyone against their permission and arrogantly remake all life to suit your ideology? Then sweet, we Reapers will be kicking back on a beach in Maui...

The Catalyst makes us choose a Reaper solution to a Reaper problem. We have to become Reapers, and in doing so the Reapers are no longer required.  Indeed, we've proven that we are more than capable of doing the Reaping for ourselves.

I hate to think of Mass Effect becoming a love note to intollerance and hate crimes, but to me that's literally the only way that the nonsense at the end is in any way coherent.

Yay nihilism. 

Modifié par drayfish, 21 octobre 2012 - 08:55 .

[Kataphrut94]

They're better alternatives to the current solution - i.e Reapers. Destroy is temporary cessation of conflict, Control is putting the original solution to better use.

[LilLino]

Ithurael wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

Because the writers wanted him to present those options.

Endgame - speculations aside - this IS the best explanation

This, Bioware wanted Deus-EX style 3 ending choices and someone had to present these choices.

[Crypticqa]

The catalyst also wasnt created to store cycles into reapers, but it seems it went rogue, so could Shepard and then,who will stop him/her?

[BansheeOwnage]

Crypticqa wrote...

I mean, if he is programmed to find a solution to peace, neither control or destroy are sure of that. In control AI still exist and in destroy, AI will eventually be created again O_o So why does he allow you pick those 2?

He even says if you pick destroy, the peace won't last. Letting you chose control or destroy makes no sense.

[AlanC9]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

 Because organics don't need him to save them anymore, they can destroy all synthetics if the need arises.

Well, if they get the relays rebuilt first. This isn't inconsistent with saying that the peace won't last.

And yeah, Control's essentially a punt. Though there is a bit of risk since the Reaper armada won't remain invincible for very many centuries.

Modifié par AlanC9, 21 octobre 2012 - 09:07 .

[Volc19]

The Catalyst saw the construction of the Crucible, and the near-thwarting of his plans, to be a sign that his way of preventing the singularity isn't as effective. In essense, he's given up on the "reaper solution." He gives Shepard, the exemplar of the cycle, all of the context and information about himself and the problem he's trying to solve so Shepard can end up making an informed choice about where to go next.

Each choice is about finding a new way to solve the problem. Destroy exists as a "maybe there wasn't a problem in the first place" option, allowing future synthetics to live and taking the Reapers out of the equasion. Control allows a new perspecitve to lead the army of killbots, thinking that new progamming might end up working better. Synthesis is obvious, if not a little silly.

[Spectre Impersonator]

 Little hologram can't do anything to stop you, hahaha.