233 réponses à ce sujet

[The Elder King]

Dave of Canada wrote...


Tranquility allows them to still live, pose no threat to others, provide for the Circles or start their own lives and make something of themselves despite their punishment. Death is just... final, serves nothing.

Having Anders rebuild the Chantry cathedral in Kirkwall for example would've been humorous and a well-deserving punishment, rather than simply killing him to become a martyr to any stupid mages who'd follow his example.

I could agree that it could make criminals useful, but the cons for me are too much. It's horrible according to Ander's friend. He preferred to die.
And for the threat problem, put them in prison. There are way to prevent mages using their powers.
Will you be fine in the use of the Rite on non-mages?

Modifié par hhh89, 24 octobre 2012 - 05:39 .

[the_one_54321]

I'm telling you, dangerous + will not compromise = put in chains and tongue removed.

No non-mages has real reason to consider mages as equals.

[the_one_54321]

You don't give a criminal what he desires. Anders wants to be a martyr. It's unfortunate that you aren't given a better option.

[MisterJB]

hhh89 wrote...
Considering that with the Tranquility you strip a person of all his emotions, and that one of the people who regained his emotions preferred to die (There are one or others in Asunder, but I don't know his/their reactions), I don't know.
Let me ask you a question: if you capture Adrian, will you execute the Rite?

Well, as I've said before, I don't really take seriously people who say "I'd rather die". We don't know what death is like. These people are just really saying, "That was the worst thing that ever happened to me and I'd prefer not go through that again" which is understandable but doesn't change the necessity of a certain punishment. Some criminals might say "I'd rather die than go to prison" which doesn't mean we should not even attempt to arrest them.

Adrian has proven herself dangerous and unresonable. I don't see any peace between mundanes and mages being accomplished with her "alive". So, yes.

Having Anders rebuild the Chantry cathedral in Kirkwall for example
would've been humorous and a well-deserving punishment, rather than
simply killing him to become a martyr to any stupid mages who'd follow
his example.

Agreed. Tough I hope that, should the Champion side with the mages, his actions are viewed differently. As proof we don't want to kill mages for actions they did not commit, the Circle, but that we will punish criminals like Anders.

[The Elder King]

the_one_54321 wrote...

You don't give a criminal what he desires. Anders wants to be a martyr. It's unfortunate that you aren't given a better option.

Are you talking to me?

[the_one_54321]

hhh89, I am referencing your post, yes.

[LobselVith8]

hhh89 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Blood magic isn't evil. I don't see why some people vilify it. Grey Warden mages have used blood magic; I had my Surana Warden use blood magic for the same reasons other members of the order did: to give him an edge against the darkspawn. Apostates use blood magic to keep their freedom from templars who can shut down their magical abilities, which is the same rationale I used for my apostate Hawke. I think blood magic can mean the difference between life and death for a mage looking to his freedom.

Blood magic gives the mages an immense power, and not everyone will use it for good. Not everyone use blood magic like the Wardens. If I'll side with the mages I'll be against its use, and after the war I'd propose its ban.

Templars are a threat that require blood magic. In my humble opinion. And I can imagine my protagonist would use blood magic as well.

[The Elder King]

MisterJB wrote...

hhh89 wrote...
Considering that with the Tranquility you strip a person of all his emotions, and that one of the people who regained his emotions preferred to die (There are one or others in Asunder, but I don't know his/their reactions), I don't know.
Let me ask you a question: if you capture Adrian, will you execute the Rite?

Well, as I've said before, I don't really take seriously people who say "I'd rather die". We don't know what death is like. These people are just really saying, "That was the worst thing that ever happened to me and I'd prefer not go through that again" which is understandable but doesn't change the necessity of a certain punishment. Some criminals might say "I'd rather die than go to prison" which doesn't mean we should not even attempt to arrest them.

Adrian has proven herself dangerous and unresonable. I don't see any peace between mundanes and mages being accomplished with her "alive". So, yes.

Then put them in prison. Let them rot in their cells. In the case you sided with the templars and stopped the rebellion, let them know that their action lead to nothing.

[the_one_54321]

Templars are a threat in response to mages being a threat. Accept the nature of your existence and seek compromise. Or else it's war and subjugation.

[Dave of Canada]

hhh89 wrote...

I could agree that it could make criminals useful, but the cons for me are too much. It's horrible according to Ander's friend. He preferred to die.

Many people prefer to die than live out their consequences, though. And it shouldn't bother those inflicted with Tranquility as they don't come back to normal except for rare exceptions, meaning their entire existence isn't disturbing to them, they actively defend their existence and right to live in Origins.

In addition, Tranquil are the only ones providing money to the Circle. The existence of the Tranquil means Circle mages can live their lives with fancy clothing, food and an education.

And for the threat problem, put them in prison. There are way to prevent mages using their powers.

Mage prisons do exist, all blood mages or apostates are technically supposed to be taken there because they cannot be made tranquil by Chantry law--as they've usually passed their Harrowing.

Will you be fine in the use of the Rite on non-mages?

Considering tranquility is mostly to stop the risk of possession as the mage is too incompetent or too dangerous, I'd say no. The average non-mage won't be worth the lyrium required to brand and Tranquil still have free will, meaning he'd most likely take a non-Circle route as he never lived there.

[The Elder King]

the_one_54321 wrote...

hhh89, I am referencing your post, yes.

Anders and Adrian certainly don't want to be put in a prison and rot there. That accomplishes the same results of the Tranquility. It's the same type of punishment? No. But I believe it's better. I'm not saying that my solution is right, though. It's simply my opinion.

[Xilizhra]

Many people prefer to die than live out their consequences, though. And it shouldn't bother those inflicted with Tranquility as they don't come back to normal except for rare exceptions, meaning their entire existence isn't disturbing to them, they actively defend their existence and right to live in Origins.

Their entire existence is disturbing to them, horribly so. They just can't express it.

Anders and Adrian certainly don't want to be put in a prison and rot
there. That accomplishes the same results of the Tranquility. It's the
same type of punishment? No. But I believe it's better. I'm not saying
that my solution is right, though. It's simply my opinion.

Your solution will also get rid of people we need. We can't just eject Anders or Adrian at this point unless they become a threat to the rebellion; we're outnumbered as it is, and every mage's contribution is precious.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 24 octobre 2012 - 05:53 .

[The Elder King]

[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...

[quote]hhh89 wrote...



Templars are a threat that require blood magic. In my humble opinion. And I can imagine my protagonist would use blood magic as well.[/quote]

You have every right to believe so. If I'll play as a mage and side with the mages with my main protagonist, I'll not do blood magic and will be against blood magic.
Of course, I'm talking about my canon protagonist, the one which I'll roleplay in the most similar way that the game will make possible to my opinions and ideals. I could very well roleplay a PC will believe that blood magic can be used.

[LobselVith8]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Templars are a threat in response to mages being a threat. Accept the nature of your existence and seek compromise. Or else it's war and subjugation.

There can be no compromise.

[Vortex13]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

People have stated the theory that at the end of DA3, Sandal's prophecy will become true and "the magic will come back... all of it" means that everyone will be a mage.

At which point you can't put the whole world into a Circle and the issue resolves itself.

So Synthesis in other words?

Everyone is the same so that magically stops all conflict.

[Dave of Canada]

Vortex13 wrote...

So Synthesis in other words?

Everyone is the same so that magically stops all conflict.

Hell no, it wouldn't stop conflict at all. Suddenly everybody becoming mages would mean demons and abominations would roam the streets, suicides would become common and systems of ruling will crumble as the monarchy would have to bow down to the Circles for guidance.

The Circles--after years of abuse--will either abandon them to the demons or rise up and slowly teach them, though never allow them to become equal to their power and always keep reliance on the Circles, meaning they'd become the rulers of the new world.

Suddenly, the entire world turns into Tevinter and only the strongest rule.

[TheJediSaint]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Vortex13 wrote...

So Synthesis in other words?

Everyone is the same so that magically stops all conflict.

Hell no, it wouldn't stop conflict at all. Suddenly everybody becoming mages would mean demons and abominations would roam the streets, suicides would become common and systems of ruling will crumble as the monarchy would have to bow down to the Circles for guidance.

The Circles--after years of abuse--will either abandon them to the demons or rise up and slowly teach them, though never allow them to become equal to their power and always keep reliance on the Circles, meaning they'd become the rulers of the new world.

Suddenly, the entire world turns into Tevinter and only the strongest rule.

And thus we see the basic problem of a "sythesis"-style solution.   Its just kinda stupid. 

[MisterJB]

LobselVith8 wrote...
There can be no compromise.

Which condemns these two facets of humanity to fight until one has been thouroughly destroyed or subjugated.
Nice job, Anders.

[Vortex13]

TheJediSaint wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Vortex13 wrote...

So Synthesis in other words? 

Everyone is the same so that magically stops all conflict.

Hell no, it wouldn't stop conflict at all. Suddenly everybody becoming mages would mean demons and abominations would roam the streets, suicides would become common and systems of ruling will crumble as the monarchy would have to bow down to the Circles for guidance.

The Circles--after years of abuse--will either abandon them to the demons or rise up and slowly teach them, though never allow them to become equal to their power and always keep reliance on the Circles, meaning they'd become the rulers of the new world.

Suddenly, the entire world turns into Tevinter and only the strongest rule.

And thus we see the basic problem of a "sythesis"-style solution.   Its just kinda stupid. 

Exactly. Which is why I never pick Synthesis in any of my playthroughs.

[TheJediSaint]

MisterJB wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...
There can be no compromise.

Which condemns these two facets of humanity to fight until one has been thouroughly destroyed or subjugated.
Nice job, Anders.

Oh there can be compomise.  It just requires that the sane people on both sides to out manuver the fanatics.

Modifié par TheJediSaint, 24 octobre 2012 - 07:04 .

[Xilizhra]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Vortex13 wrote...

So Synthesis in other words?

Everyone is the same so that magically stops all conflict.

Hell no, it wouldn't stop conflict at all. Suddenly everybody becoming mages would mean demons and abominations would roam the streets, suicides would become common and systems of ruling will crumble as the monarchy would have to bow down to the Circles for guidance.

The Circles--after years of abuse--will either abandon them to the demons or rise up and slowly teach them, though never allow them to become equal to their power and always keep reliance on the Circles, meaning they'd become the rulers of the new world.

Suddenly, the entire world turns into Tevinter and only the strongest rule.

But the Circles, while they might maintain a knowledge monopoly initially, wouldn't be able to hold onto it forever--if they did try to outright oppress anyone at all, anyway. And with the mage/mundane divide vanished, the only separation left would be between those in the government and those who are not, i.e. the same thing that happens purely between mundanes literally everywhere else. Additionally, everyone becomes far more resistant to blood magic-based mind control. It'd be initially hectic, to say the least, but with that divide of unequal capabilities gone, the end result could be far superior to what we have right now.

[The Elder King]

Xilizhra wrote...


Your solution will also get rid of people we need. We can't just eject Anders or Adrian at this point unless they become a threat to the rebellion; we're outnumbered as it is, and every mage's contribution is precious.

I was talking from the point of view of a templar, or a PC who joined the templars. I'll join every factions in different playthroughs, since I like to experience all the content a game offers me (well, I didn't play MP in ME3, but it's one of the few exceptions, and it's not a SP content). When I'll roleplay a PC who sided with the templars, I'll ask to put the leaders in prison, if they weren't killed in the war, rather than Tranquilize them. And I'll be against Tranquilization (again, if the game allows me).

Modifié par hhh89, 24 octobre 2012 - 07:32 .

[Xilizhra]

hhh89 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...


Your solution will also get rid of people we need. We can't just eject Anders or Adrian at this point unless they become a threat to the rebellion; we're outnumbered as it is, and every mage's contribution is precious.

I was talking from the point of view of a templar, or a PC who joined the templars. I'll join every factions in different playthroughs, since I like to experience all the content a game offers me (well, I didn't play MP in ME3, but it's one of the few exceptions, and it's not a SP content). When I'll roleplay a PC who sided with the templars, I'll ask to put the leaders in prison, if they weren't killed in the war, rather than Tranquilize them. And I'll be against Tranquilization (again, if the game allows me).

And who are you personally most inclined to side with?

[Maclimes]

Xilizhra wrote...

And who are you personally most inclined to side with?

I can't speak for hhh, but for me, the answer is "Irrelevant". For me, you might as well ask, "What does the sky taste like?" It has no bearing or even meaning to me.

Each of my Wardens and Hawkes has made their own decision. Some sided with mages, some sided with Templars, some did their best to walk a fine line.

But to ME, the PLAYER, it's all meaningless. It's a purely fictional world. I have enough trouble with politics in the real world, I don't need to have a real-world opinion of fictional-world politics.

(Part of that, mind you, is because of how well the mage/templar story was written. It becomes impossible to make snap judgements on so complex a situation).

[Xilizhra]

I can't speak for hhh, but for me, the answer is "Irrelevant". For me, you might as well ask, "What does the sky taste like?" It has no bearing or even meaning to me.

It tastes windy and cool. Maybe somewhat minty sometimes.

But to ME, the PLAYER, it's all meaningless. It's a purely fictional world. I have enough trouble with politics in the real world, I don't need to have a real-world opinion of fictional-world politics.

I suppose we just interact with it differently, then.