357 réponses à ce sujet

[TEWR]

Iron_JG wrote...

Gaider's reassuring remarks notwithstanding, I think even fans who want to play atheists in-game could enjoy being stuck as a servant of the Chantry -- for the beginning of the game, anyway.

I might, depending on the nature of being someone who helps the Chantry and how the game handles it. "Servant of the Chantry" doesn't automatically denote "believer" -- though it certainly can -- and can indeed lend itself well to a few roleplaying possibilities. 

Would the Inquisition -- were they in fact part of the Chantry -- accept atheists/agnostics/people of other religions to better serve their goal? Would the Chantry be okay with it? Could I help them on the premise that they owe me a huge favor?

I may be helping them, but I'm helping them to get something out of it. So really, I'm manipulating them for my own ends.

Though I'm not an atheist, I'm also not a fervent believer. At best, I'd describe myself as a person who likes to believe but is not adverse to questioning the existence of God, the nature of the universe, and various other things.

Dave of Canada wrote...

Most of them play self-inserts, they'd hate the idea of having to support religion no matter how brief it is.

Yeah, I do imagine some people do play that way. Personally, I'd only hate supporting a religion in a game if its actions mirrored far too closely those a real world religion/group/person took to people that are a part of my heritage.

But other then that, I don't hate the idea, though I'd rather not be forced to do it every time.

[Joccaren]

Its quite simple. You don't believe in the Maker, but you work for the Chantry to spread the good that they do.

I don't believe in God, but I'd have no problem doing community service for a church, as often it is to help the people, rather than simply to worship God. The Chantry is a faction seemingly devoted to doing good [At least from the eyes of your average citizen], and has a lot of resources behind it. If one wanted to do good in the world, it would be the obvious place to start - whether you were Atheist or Theist.

[GodWood]

IIDovahChiiefII wrote...
personalty i find antheisim like the cool nerd's table.and while a nerd/geek myself i rather sit with a bunch of "believers" that stick to there conclusions.rather then flip flop and hit switchs to fit in cool nerds.

what im saying is antheisim is the new Hipster trend, and people are too dumb to realize it

[DarthLaxian]

Dasher1010 wrote...

Like if you're the inquisitor it's pretty obvious that your job is to bring the Circle adn Templars back under Chantry control. I think that kind of means that the PC worships Andraste

what are you blabbering about?

the inquisition does not serve the chantry in any way or form

they have joined forces with the chantry, but it is more like the orlesian bards working for different nobles and/or the empress herself.

the nevaran accords are a contract to work together, not one of submission of the inquisition to the chantry (the inquisition might be the only organisation that is outside of the chantrys reach, next to the grey wardens and maybe the antivan crows...otherwise they would have just done some form of hostile takeover instead of drawing up the accords of nevara)

that being the case, they both profit from working together - but the inquisitors can still be none believers that work with the chantry because of mutual benefit

even more now - the chantry has relatively few allies left (some seekers and maybe the inquisition)...the templars have abandoned it and they have withdrawn from the accords, as have most of the seekers (!) who have joined forces with or even have become the leaders of the templar forces!

so the chantry is kind of at the inquisitions mercy - if we abandone it, it would be a hard blow to recover from!

greetings LAX
ps: let the chantry "burn" (well not entirely...i am just not a friend of religions that use force against non-believers (dalish, tevinter, chasind and witches of the wild))

[BouncyFrag]

In a land of magic that has archdemons imbued with the souls of a fallen god, I'd liken being an atheist in Thedas to being a physicist in the real world who doesn't believe in gravity.

[Swagger7]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Personally, I'd only hate supporting a religion in a game if its actions mirrored far too closely those a real world religion/group/person took to people that are a part of my heritage.

But other then that, I don't hate the idea, though I'd rather not be forced to do it every time.

I'm the same way.  I don't self-insert in RPGs and I normally don't mind the typical fantasy religions, but Andrastianism is far too analogous to a certain real religion for me to identify with it in game.

[Swagger7]

BouncyFrag wrote...

In a land of magic that has archdemons imbued with the souls of a fallen god, I'd liken being an atheist in Thedas to being a physicist in the real world who doesn't believe in gravity.

False analogy.  While we see plenty of magical things and archdemons, we don't see any actual evidence that the stories of the Maker are true (or the stories of the elven gods for that matter).

[Bruddajakka]

Honestly why even force people into such a role. You want to use Orlais fine. Give us different options in that regard. Personally I don't like the chantry. I never will like it. I absolutely hate the fact that apparently Leliana ignores the character development that she went through in DAO, and goes back to serving it,

[Aleya]

Because if I can choose the PC's opinion on the Templar-Mage conflict, I should most definitely be able to choose what deity(ies) s/he does or does not believe in.

While I'm agnostic I occasionally roleplay my PCs as religious if that suits their background story. It's fun and even educational from time to time. But I'd be furious if it were forced on me.

[Heimdall]

Bruddajakka wrote...

Honestly why even force people into such a role. You want to use Orlais fine. Give us different options in that regard. Personally I don't like the chantry. I never will like it. I absolutely hate the fact that apparently Leliana ignores the character development that she went through in DAO, and goes back to serving it,

Gaider has said point blank that we won't be forced to serve the chantry or even to like it.

[robertthebard]

Bruddajakka wrote...

Honestly why even force people into such a role. You want to use Orlais fine. Give us different options in that regard. Personally I don't like the chantry. I never will like it. I absolutely hate the fact that apparently Leliana ignores the character development that she went through in DAO, and goes back to serving it,

A hardened Leliana still believes in the Maker.  She is convinced to quit running away from who/what she is.  There is no contradiction to how she turns out at the end of DA O, and in fact, her apparent development in DA 2, from what we can tell, is that she's more militant about her faith now than previously.  This follows perfectly the development path she was on at the end of DA O.

On an aside to this, did you romance Alistair?  Think about the dialog where he gives you the rose, and where he got it.  Outside the Chantry in Lothering, off an apparently dead bush.  Sound familiar?

[iSignIn]

Most clerics are actually atheists.

Bet you didn't know that, did you OP?

Modifié par iSignIn, 23 octobre 2012 - 02:08 .

[berelinde]

robertthebard wrote...

On an aside to this, did you romance Alistair?  Think about the dialog where he gives you the rose, and where he got it.  Outside the Chantry in Lothering, off an apparently dead bush.  Sound familiar?

No lie, I have a rosebush that has bloomed twice in the middle of January without a leaf on it. I am not Andraste.

[Lennard Testarossa]

I'd generally like the option to express an educated opinion, especially as a mage. Mages are supposedly learned people. How come that, when faced with a question like "Does the Maker exist?", my only option is to answer "Yeah, I believe in him because faith and stuff." or "No.". There have to be materialistic philosophies along the lines of Democritus somewhere in Thedas. Also, a mage might want to justify his belief in the Maker by more than just faith. Why not give them the opportunity to present an ontological argument when probed for their opinion.

For me it is not about being able to represent my opinion in the game, but rather about the possibility of playing a character that is at least somewhat intelligent and educated.

[berelinde]

Aleya wrote...

Because if I can choose the PC's opinion on the Templar-Mage conflict, I should most definitely be able to choose what deity(ies) s/he does or does not believe in.

While I'm agnostic I occasionally roleplay my PCs as religious if that suits their background story. It's fun and even educational from time to time. But I'd be furious if it were forced on me.

This is exactly my stance on the subject. Luckily, the developers seem to agree that this is a role-playing freedom worth preserving.

It may be perverse, but when something is voluntary, it's easier to enjoy doing it. When it is compulsory, it turns into a chore. This isn't such a strange concept. A lot of people like to cook. They enjoy experimenting with new flavors and techniques and trying out new recipes. When they find that they have to cook every single night (especially if the person they are cooking for has a restricted diet), they can still experiment, but it turns into an endless slog of slightly different variations of SSDD. 

[LobselVith8]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Iron_JG wrote...

Gaider's reassuring remarks notwithstanding, I think even fans who want to play atheists in-game could enjoy being stuck as a servant of the Chantry -- for the beginning of the game, anyway.

Most of them play self-inserts, they'd hate the idea of having to support religion no matter how brief it is.

I think it has to do with the Andrastian Chantry, rather than religion in general. I would enjoy playing as a Dalish mage who worshipped the Creators. I simply have disdain for the Chantry as a fulcrum of evil.

[The Elder King]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Iron_JG wrote...

Gaider's reassuring remarks notwithstanding, I think even fans who want to play atheists in-game could enjoy being stuck as a servant of the Chantry -- for the beginning of the game, anyway.

Most of them play self-inserts, they'd hate the idea of having to support religion no matter how brief it is.

I think it has to do with the Andrastian Chantry, rather than religion in general. I would enjoy playing as a Dalish mage who worshipped the Creators. I simply have disdain for the Chantry as a fulcrum of evil.

I'd prefer to not be forced in any religions. Though on the other hand, playing as an Andrastian or a dalish, if I'm not forced to express my belief, and if I have the freedom to criticize my religion (or the institution), is not (that big) a problem.

Modifié par hhh89, 23 octobre 2012 - 02:42 .

[Rawgrim]

Why do people want to create their own character in roleplaying games?

[brushyourteeth]

BouncyFrag wrote...

In a land of magic that has archdemons imbued with the souls of a fallen god, I'd liken being an atheist in Thedas to being a physicist in the real world who doesn't believe in gravity.

LOL. That certainly seems to be the way David Gaider intends it.

+1 for the fact that you seem to understand that better than 3/4 of the BSN.

[Xilizhra]

brushyourteeth wrote...

BouncyFrag wrote...

In a land of magic that has archdemons imbued with the souls of a fallen god, I'd liken being an atheist in Thedas to being a physicist in the real world who doesn't believe in gravity.

LOL. That certainly seems to be the way David Gaider intends it.

+1 for the fact that you seem to understand that better than 3/4 of the BSN.

No. This is stupid. Blatantly, blatantly stupid. Archdemons have proof of their existence. The Maker does not; not even spirits know if the bastard exists. Morrigan says it best, when she says that magic is real, but it doesn't at all prove the existence of some celestial absentee father-figure.

[Rawgrim]

Archdemons excist, but the bit about them being old gods could be false. Thats how myths and legends starts. People add an explanation to stuff they don`t understand. The same thing could have happened with the Archdemon lore. At least according to a sceptical charactr.

[brushyourteeth]

Xilizhra wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

BouncyFrag wrote...

In a land of magic that has archdemons imbued with the souls of a fallen god, I'd liken being an atheist in Thedas to being a physicist in the real world who doesn't believe in gravity.

LOL. That certainly seems to be the way David Gaider intends it.

+1 for the fact that you seem to understand that better than 3/4 of the BSN.

No. This is stupid. Blatantly, blatantly stupid. Archdemons have proof of their existence. The Maker does not; not even spirits know if the bastard exists. Morrigan says it best, when she says that magic is real, but it doesn't at all prove the existence of some celestial absentee father-figure.

Read: the post I quoted said atheism, not "lack of worship of the Maker specifically."

[Xilizhra]

Read: the post I quoted said atheism, not "lack of worship of the Maker specifically."

If someone said the sun was a god, atheism wouldn't be saying "the sun doesn't exist," but "the sun isn't a god." It's the same with archdemons.

[brushyourteeth]

Xilizhra wrote...

Read: the post I quoted said atheism, not "lack of worship of the Maker specifically."

If someone said the sun was a god, atheism wouldn't be saying "the sun doesn't exist," but "the sun isn't a god." It's the same with archdemons.

The author of that post was speaking, I am sure, of atheism in the classical sense that "there is no god, deity, or higher power in existence or authority anywhere."

[Xilizhra]

brushyourteeth wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Read: the post I quoted said atheism, not "lack of worship of the Maker specifically."

If someone said the sun was a god, atheism wouldn't be saying "the sun doesn't exist," but "the sun isn't a god." It's the same with archdemons.

The author of that post was speaking, I am sure, of atheism in the classical sense that "there is no god, deity, or higher power in existence or authority anywhere."

That's antitheism. Plain atheism is just "I have no active belief in a god/higher power," not necessarily declaring that none exists.