118 réponses à ce sujet

[Pauravi]

Monica83 wrote...

"So, yes, we will continue to appeal to new players. That's not to say
we're going to sacrifice our design or plot in the service of this goal,
but we're also not going to ignore them."

You already did it in the switch between Dragon age origins and Dragon age 2 just to make a point...

Highly debatable.

[Pauravi]

hhh89 wrote...

Pauravi wrote...

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

Pauravi wrote...

ianvillan wrote...

I would also like to know how many new fans the inclusion the of action mode, story mode and RPG mode actually brought in and if it was worth the resources to implement the feature.

What are these "action mode", "story mode", and "RPG mode"s that you speak of?

This a trick question?

No, not at all.  I mean, are you just referring to the fact that the game has cinematic or dialogue sequences, which the camera handles differently compared to when you're wandering around, or fighting?  You know, like Origins did?

ME3 had three different options in which you can play the game: Action, in which the dialogue choices are cut off; Story, in which the difficulty is even more decreased; and the RPG mode, the classical one.

Ooooooh, hahaha.  Sorry, my mind was stuck on DA2, I didn't even think about ME3.

I dunno, I don't really think it takes anything at all away from the RPG aspect to include those modes either for action gamers (and lets be real, ME was half action game from the very beginning) or for people who have already played through the game a bunch of times and skip through the dialogues anyway.  It was probably extremely easy to implement -- all they do is leave out most of the dialogue after all -- and the fact that those modes exist doesn't at all hurt those of us who simply leave the switch on "RPG" all the time.  I forgot that it was even an option until you mentioned it; the fact that such a thing exists is of zero importance IMO.

[Pinely]

Dragon Age 2's problems weren't rooted in abandoning RPG elements.  Origins RPG elements were in dire need of streamlining.  The Skill System was superflous, you have more than enough companions to fill those roles and Coercion outclassed the other skills by a wide margin for the Warden.  The abilities were a complete mess of rows and columns that offered surprisingly little choice.  Dragon Age 2 did a lot to improve those issues.

And, as far as combat is concered, the primary difference is aesthetic.  Combat is flashier and fast moving, but the underlying system is nearly identical.  No Top Down view, but that the zoomed out view was a close enough approximation of that style anyway.  In many ways, Dragon Age 2 is considerably more difficult than Origins, particularly on the Nightmare setting and this difficulty is a result of mechanics, not reaction time.

Most fans are wrong on this point.  They want to view Dragon Age 2 as some morality play about the dangers of abandoning RPG elements in order to broaden the player base.  But that's not what happened.  Dragon Age 2 is about poor compromises.  Less diverse environments and less companion customization in order to maintain game length and meet deadlines.  I suspect the game would have been better received if a full playthrough took 20 hours, but had diverse zones and multiple visual/stat options for companions.

[Emzamination]

Mikael_Sebastia wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Fresh Bamboo wrote...

 Do not try too hard to appeal to new players.


that is all.

^ Registered in 2012.

Eh, what is the relevance in pointing that particular detail out? Is the implication that he himself is a new player or what? I have registered in 2012, still I wouldn’t characterize myself a new player, even if I didn’t rush to join to any Bioware forums (if there were any) in late nineties when I first time played Baldur’s Gate through on my dad’s pc. Not that I would mind of being a new player, if that was the case though (actually I wouldn’t be here at all, if there wasn't ME 3 multiplayer and its weekly balance updates being posted in this board, which originally got me to following this forum).

There probably is a positive correlation between the register date and being a new player or not, but I’d rather give this guy the benefit of doubt, and rather listen what he has to say. Just being cynical doesn’t really add much to the discussion anyway, and its appeal wears off pretty fast.

^ Registered in 2012.

Seeing as you're greener than him, you probably shouldn't poke your nose in that particular bit of business or be dictating to older members the tone in which they should be posting.Kids these days have no respect for their elders, But enough of that.

Neither the Op nor you for that matter has a registered copy of Da2 making any complaint about the series as a whole insubstantial in thy eyes.Sorry but I need proof I'm listening to an actual player and not just some troll shooting off at the mouth, which from the op's sentence and half statement seems most likely.

Oh and Welcome to B.s.n Newbie :happy:

Modifié par Emzamination, 23 octobre 2012 - 12:26 .

[The Elder King]

Emzamination wrote...



^ Registered in 2012.

Seeing as you're greener than him, you probably shouldn't poke your nose in that particular bit of business or be dictating to older members the tone in which they should be posting.Kids these days have no respect for their elders, But enough of that.

Neither the Op nor you for that matter has a registered copy of Da2 making any complaint about the series as a whole insubstantial in thy eyes.Sorry but I need proof I'm listening to an actual player and not just some troll shooting off at the mouth, which from the op's sentence and half statement seems most likely.

Oh and Welcome to B.s.n Newbie :happy:

Your opinion isn't very reasonable. There are number of reason why a person wouldn't put their registered copy in the BSN, and having a older registration date doesn't make you wiser, or more important, or anything else.
By your logic, I shouldn't dictate me in the tone in which I should post. Which, if I post in tone that aren't appropriate for a forum, is what you should do.
You seems very pride of being "older" than other members, which is a think who should have no relevance.

[Emzamination]

hhh89 wrote...

Emzamination wrote...



^ Registered in 2012.

Seeing as you're greener than him, you probably shouldn't poke your nose in that particular bit of business or be dictating to older members the tone in which they should be posting.Kids these days have no respect for their elders, But enough of that.

Neither the Op nor you for that matter has a registered copy of Da2 making any complaint about the series as a whole insubstantial in thy eyes.Sorry but I need proof I'm listening to an actual player and not just some troll shooting off at the mouth, which from the op's sentence and half statement seems most likely.

Oh and Welcome to B.s.n Newbie :happy:

Your opinion isn't very reasonable. There are number of reason why a person wouldn't put their registered copy in the BSN, and having a older registration date doesn't make you wiser, or more important, or anything else.
By your logic, I shouldn't dictate me in the tone in which I should post. Which, if I post in tone that aren't appropriate for a forum, is what you should do.
You seems very pride of being "older" than other members, which is a think who should have no relevance.

Too bad, soo sad for them Ai? The bolded is when the post  started to make no sense to me.

[Realmzmaster]

Anytime someone talks about abandoning RPG elements the discussion never ends well. I find it funny that gamers talk about streamlining and abandoning RPG elements and then point to Skyrim and Witcher 2 as some of the pinnace of crpgs. Skyrim which has streamlined many of the elements from the pervious TES installments and badly implemented others. The Witcher 2 which has become more action-oriented than the first.
I am not knocking either game. I have played both. I have my opinion on both., But compared to the previous installments certain elements have been streamlined.
Streamlining in itself is not bad. The implementation can be a problem. DA2 suffered implementation problems.
In some peoples opinion DA2 was a flop. I can speak only for myself. I enjoyed the game. I enjoyed DAO. I wanted BG3 but I did not get it. I assume I will like DA3.

I am fully aware that everyone is not going to like what I like in an RPG. I am aware that everyone does not agree on the RPG elements D & D not withstanding. D & D help start and define the genre. It does not own the genre.
If all games have to adhere to the D & D standard that limits creativity as far as I am concerned.

Everyone has not played nor grew up with D & D. Therefore D & D rpg elements has no bearing on them nor do they have that frame of reference.

Just saying make a good game is not going to cut it. A good or great game is necessary, but it must have the marketing behind. Yes, that includes word of mouth, but that does not reach the new audience. Word of mouth basically reaches friends who already like crpgs and may know about DA3.
Marketing reaches those who may not have considered picking up an crpg and are enticed by what they see.
Ignoring a potential market can be economic suicide especially if your present market is not growing.

[Emzamination]

Mikael_Sebastia wrote...

Emzamination wrote...
Seeing as you're greener than him, you probably shouldn't poke your nose in that particular bit of business or be dictating to older members the tone in which they should be posting.Kids these days have no respect for their elders, But enough of that.

Neither the Op nor you for that matter has a registered copy of Da2 making any complaint about the series as a whole insubstantial in thy eyes.Sorry but I need proof I'm listening to an actual player and not just some troll shooting off at the mouth, which from the op's sentence and half statement seems most likely.

Oh and Welcome to B.s.n Newbie :happy:

I have been defeated and brought to my place. If it was possible I’d relinquish my side arm to you as a sign of surrender. Alas you have to settle with this fawning. 

Undeniably factors like register date and registered games are empirical hard evidence on determining who’s a n00b and who’s not. I mean, anybody can just claim to be anything after all. Plus it is kind of axiom that persons posting should be valued according on is he a newbie or not, and to my shame I follow a similar heuristic of not even reading postings by noobs (registered later than 2009). Yes, it’s all lies by my part, since surely there cannot be any other reason for person not registering games despite not actually owning them, or having played them at all. Q.E.D

you don't read your own post? That explains it all. Gj insulting yourself there.

Modifié par Emzamination, 23 octobre 2012 - 12:54 .

[Mike3207]

They might as well bring new fans in. A fair amount of the DAO fans are likely to pass on DA3 and future DA games.

[Direwolf0294]

It's always annoyed me a bit when developers go out of their way to try and appeal to new players in a game that's part of a series. Like ME3 for example. It's the final game in a trilogy but for some reason they decided it would be the perfect time to try and get new players on board and gave us Vega to help do that instead of focusing on the fans who had been with them the past two games and giving that party slot to an ME2 squady.

Unless there's an absurd number of games in the series or the new game's coming out on a new generation of console I don't think it's something that should be done. Having said that, DA3 is probably the right game to try and get people on board the DA train. DA has yet to get it's own feeling. The ME games changed things between them but at the core they all felt and played the same. DA doesn't have that. With DA3 BioWare can come up with a feeling that they can then replicate in future DA games. This is probably the best time to appeal to new players.

[Ridwan]

... Once again I got to question you guys.

You expect Bioware to make this super expensive, highly voice acting intensive, massive game with very detailed background lore, but you only want it to appeal to the already existing playerbase? Reality check folks, Dragon Age 3 needs new players in order to keep justifying the costs. Origins and DA 2 barely even broke the 3 million mark, considering the budget it's NOT GOOD BUSINESS (marketing is factored in here too and yes I know, they haven't released the budget for DA: Origins or Dragon Age 2, but consider the fact that Spiderman 3 from Activision had a budget of 35 million dollars, I think it's reasonable to assume that the DA games have a higher budget, so let's say over 35-45 million).

Let's make a fantasy game here to figure out how much Bioware made on Dragon Age 2 for example.

The budget was 35 million, they sold 3 million copies and EA takes the major cut, leaving Bioware with 2 dollars pr. unit sold. That's 2,3 million dollars. Sounds a lot to some? Well factor in how many employees there are at Bioware now too, who gets paid the most etc.

Hell, you should be HOPING, that they can bring more people interested in the RPG genre so that it actually increases the sales of the game and gets easier for developers to justify making high budget RPGs.

It's like there's this super elitism on this forum, where you all pretend to speak ye ol' English (mixed with French words) who loathe anyone not belonging to your tight knit circle. That and those that only care about romances.

Modifié par M25105, 23 octobre 2012 - 03:47 .

[ImperatorMortis]

I don't know exactly what Bioware needs to do, but they need to do it.

If DA3 doesn't do well, that would be 4 consecutive flops from Bioware. The other 3 being DA2, ME3, and SWTOR.

I.. Don't see how they would be able to bounce back from that.

Modifié par ImperatorMortis, 23 octobre 2012 - 03:37 .

[Maria Caliban]

Mass Effect 3 sold well. Dragon Age 2 probably made more of a profit than DA:O.

KotOR... yeah. I'm going to guess that BioWare Austin's fortunes aren't tied to BioWare Edmonton's though. If KotOR goes bad, they'll axe that studio, but it won't impact other studios.

[ImperatorMortis]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Mass Effect 3 sold well. Dragon Age 2 probably made more of a profit than DA:O. 

Well yeah, but most of that profit was due to their predesessors. Plus there's all that mega drama due to the endings. Many gamers still haven't forgiven Bioware for that. 

Dragon Age 3 being Super Mega Awesome needs to be a thing that happens. 

Modifié par ImperatorMortis, 23 octobre 2012 - 03:50 .

[Emzamination]

M25105 wrote...

... Once again I got to question you guys.

You expect Bioware to make this super expensive, highly voice acting intensive, massive game with very detailed background lore, but you only want it to appeal to the already existing playerbase? Reality check folks, Dragon Age 3 needs new players in order to keep justifying the costs. Origins and DA 2 barely even broke the 3 million mark, considering the budget it's NOT GOOD BUSINESS (marketing is factored in here too and yes I know, they haven't released the budget for DA: Origins or Dragon Age 2, but consider the fact that Spiderman 3 from Activision had a budget of 35 million dollars, I think it's reasonable to assume that the DA games have a higher budget, so let's say over 35-45 million).

Let's make a fantasy game here to figure out how much Bioware made on Dragon Age 2 for example.

The budget was 35 million, they sold 3 million copies and EA takes the major cut, leaving Bioware with 2 dollars pr. unit sold. That's 2,3 million dollars. Sounds a lot to some? Well factor in how many employees there are at Bioware now too, who gets paid the most etc.

Hell, you should be HOPING, that they can bring more people interested in the RPG genre so that it actually increases the sales of the game and gets easier for developers to justify making high budget RPGs.

It's like there's this super elitism on this forum, where you all pretend to speak ye ol' English (mixed with French words) who loathe anyone not belonging to your tight knit circle. That and those that only care about romances.

Hm? No one does that... Thou art mad, messere.

[Vandicus]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Mass Effect 3 sold well. Dragon Age 2 probably made more of a profit than DA:O.

KotOR... yeah. I'm going to guess that BioWare Austin's fortunes aren't tied to BioWare Edmonton's though. If KotOR goes bad, they'll axe that studio, but it won't impact other studios.

Given EA's track record with MMOs(Warhammer online is still running), and the knowledge that TOR has since made up its sunk costs and is profitable(though not WoW profitable it is the 2nd largest subscribed MMO) its highly improbable that the MMO or studio working on it will be shut down. Its F2P launch is a subject of great interest, when combined with the rumors that Blizzard's Project Titan will be F2P, it possibly marks the end of mainstream pure subscription models. Another financial analyst published an article on TOR's f2p launch in particular stating that he expected it to have 10 million f2pers with an upper possibility of 50 million(using a measurement of monthly use). Though he doesn't elaborate on how he arrived at these numbers(though I privately suspect he simply did a direct comparison from the DDO and LOTRO player base expansions), the revenue average provided by f2pers in similar models approximately matches that of subscribers. It works out this way even though many f2pers will spend little, and some will spend only a moderate amount, because the high end population spends heavily enough(we're talking hundreds of dollars a month here, largely how LoL, HoN, and GW2[post box sales]) make revenue enough that the average is brought to around 15 dollars per person.

Modifié par Vandicus, 23 octobre 2012 - 03:59 .

[Vandicus]

M25105 wrote...

... Once again I got to question you guys.

You expect Bioware to make this super expensive, highly voice acting intensive, massive game with very detailed background lore, but you only want it to appeal to the already existing playerbase? Reality check folks, Dragon Age 3 needs new players in order to keep justifying the costs. Origins and DA 2 barely even broke the 3 million mark, considering the budget it's NOT GOOD BUSINESS (marketing is factored in here too and yes I know, they haven't released the budget for DA: Origins or Dragon Age 2, but consider the fact that Spiderman 3 from Activision had a budget of 35 million dollars, I think it's reasonable to assume that the DA games have a higher budget, so let's say over 35-45 million).

Let's make a fantasy game here to figure out how much Bioware made on Dragon Age 2 for example.

The budget was 35 million, they sold 3 million copies and EA takes the major cut, leaving Bioware with 2 dollars pr. unit sold. That's 2,3 million dollars. Sounds a lot to some? Well factor in how many employees there are at Bioware now too, who gets paid the most etc.

Hell, you should be HOPING, that they can bring more people interested in the RPG genre so that it actually increases the sales of the game and gets easier for developers to justify making high budget RPGs.

It's like there's this super elitism on this forum, where you all pretend to speak ye ol' English (mixed with French words) who loathe anyone not belonging to your tight knit circle. That and those that only care about romances.

Movie budgets far outstrip video game budgets in general. Bioware is a subsidiary company of EA, wholly owned by EA's investors(previously owned by the founders). It doesn't really work like that at all(though EA itself is not publicly traded).

Now it is good business to try and appeal to more consumers, just saying your numbers are probably on the high end, and that's not how Bioware works for EA. EA is not simply Bioware's publisher, they own the company.

[Icinix]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Mass Effect 3 sold well. Dragon Age 2 probably made more of a profit than DA:O.

KotOR... yeah. I'm going to guess that BioWare Austin's fortunes aren't tied to BioWare Edmonton's though. If KotOR goes bad, they'll axe that studio, but it won't impact other studios.

..if it does though...a KOTOR single player story telling experience may go with it.

[deuce985]

Man Bioware is liberal on topics.

Surprised this didn't get locked immediately...

[ImperatorMortis]

deuce985 wrote...

Man Bioware is liberal on topics.

Surprised this didn't get locked immediately...

Because silencing people who are simply concerned about Bioware is the best option at this possible moment, yes? 

[Emzamination]

ImperatorMortis wrote...

deuce985 wrote...

Man Bioware is liberal on topics.

Surprised this didn't get locked immediately...

Because silencing people who are simply concerned about Bioware is the best option at this possible moment, yes? 

Pffft op's looking out for self, mortis. lets not kid ourselves here.As long as said people are not trying to openly incite a forum revolt or sow dissention in the ranks, they don't have to worry about getting the screws put to them.

There are a few who have made genuine heart felt threads because of their love for the company but the majority makes these same types of threads with ulterior motives such as trolling, raging, flame baiting and did I mention trolling?

It's sad that the few have to suffer for the actions of the many but them's the brakes.

Modifié par Emzamination, 23 octobre 2012 - 04:21 .

[deuce985]

ImperatorMortis wrote...

deuce985 wrote...

Man Bioware is liberal on topics.

Surprised this didn't get locked immediately...

Because silencing people who are simply concerned about Bioware is the best option at this possible moment, yes? 

Well, they have better ways to make topics without coming off sounding like a pretentious bigot.

Maybe if the OP articulated a little better. I read it as being rather hostile myself...

Modifié par deuce985, 23 octobre 2012 - 04:57 .