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Whatever happened to IMAGINATION?


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#251
Jadebaby

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Reth Shepherd wrote...

I still think Koobismo of Marauder Shields fame put it best.

When I started penning down the rough scenario for "Marauder Shields", I took the analytical approach, disseminating the story, themes and the bouquet of emotions seen in the first 2.9 games of the Mass Effect trilogy... And I believe I identified the word defining its guiding emotion. Hope. Hope for rescuing the galaxy, hope for stopping Saren, hope for humanity to show their true worth and join the other Council species... Hope that the desperate search for the Conduit will produce a miracleous way of stopping the Reapers... Hope that Shepard will friggin' come back from the rubble, with epic fanfares going on in the background.

The second game opens with Shepard declared as a "bloody icon", a symbol giving hope for humanity, its unity, its future... If we lose Shepard, humanity might well follow. Why do you think the narrative makes such a big deal out of this? Because Shepard is such a good shot, or such a powerful biotic? No. Because it implies that what the Normandy did in the first Mass Effect had consequences - and placed it in a unique position of being the nexus of galactic unity. One needed so badly in such desperate times. The Illusive Man clearly understands this, whatever we think about his shady plans or dangerous philosophy. He rebuilds the Normandy, investing significant resources, but he makes sure that the ship looks similar, he makes sure that the name stays the same. Because he understands he isn't just rebuilding a ship. Whatever his ulterior motives are... at that time he is reigniting the Beacon of Hope.

End of Mass Effect 2. Commander Shepard strouts through the Normandy. The ship is heavily damaged after the assault on the Collector Base... but she'll live. She'll fight. She died once before, as did Shepard, but the music announces that this is far from over. The crew members check their weapons, manly looks are exchanged (with Jack delivering the manliest, which I absolutely loved) and... Shepard stops at the viewport, starring down the stars, mirroring the ending scene from "Empire Strikes Back"... The narrative tells you, with the use of this simple, yet awesome scene, that with the help of your loyal crew, you can overcome any obstacles. You can fight and win. Because no matter the odds, there is always hope.

Mass Effect 3. Despite some logical and narrative flaws present in the story from the very beginning (the Crucible plot appearing from nowhere, Cerberus suddenly becoming a Bond-like villain organization), the game follows the emotional guidance of its predecessors to the letter (allow me to emphasize the fact that the "governing emotion" is *not* the same as a "theme"). The situation may be dire, the death of millions may haunt you 'til the day you die... But there *is* hope. *You* are the hope. And you achieve miracles. Turians and krogan working together. The geth and quarian fleets united. The galaxy gathering under a single banner... You see in their eyes the same fear that would take the heart of you. And you know a day may come when the courage of men fails, when we all forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship... But it was not that day! An hour of wolves and shattered shields, when the age of freedom comes crashing down... But it was not that day! That day... You fought. And the Free People of the Galaxy stood there with you... Holding the line.

The ending of Mass Effect 3. Everything changes. The narrative drops its core for no significant storytelling reason other than "we wanted to write it this way". Shepard's fight-until-the-end attitude, the only element of his (or hers) character identical for all players, gets broken off-screen. Nearly all major themes of the series are suddenly dropped and replaced by a twisted version of ME1's "organics vs. synthetics", no longer valid in this universe due to the events and ideas shared with the players in ME2 and ME3 - the concept evolved during the series, changed, progressed and, at the crucial moment, was slammed back to its original, embryo state. The game unexpectedly shifts from space opera science-fiction to space fantasy. And finally... The emotional guidance of the series suddenly vaporates and is surplanted with a substitute, a piece that doesn't fit the puzzle. Hope dies.

One could argue that the solutions presented by the StarChild grant you some kind of hope... And one would be wrong. The very philosophical themes of the ending indicate that nothing matters, neither in the past (all choices become invalidated), nor the future (everything can be invalidated once again, by another godlike creature with an even stupider plan - these are the new rules of the narrative). Your hopes, presented to you over the course of the narrative, were false - this is why it stings so much to return to the previous games, this is why replayability gets murdered by this finale. Let me emphasize this... The crucial emotion of Mass Effect was HOPE. Believing in a positive outcome fueled by your efforts and sacrifices, which is invalidated retroactively. You can hide away the "it's about the journey" asspull - how can you take the same journey again, how can you hope again, if you know that it's just a lie?

Instead, you are left with a scene of a godlike creature shifting the universe and life to its bidding... And you are assisting with it. You are not choosing, not really (unless you accept the Refusal ending, which is yet another emotional play to make you think of Synthesis as the right choice, no matter how wrong it really is) - you are selecting one of the options the StarChild is okay with. And each of the endings, from the mildly horrible Destroy, through pretty horrible Control, to the absolutely horrible Synthesis means one and the same thing... Your world ends, the current rules of reality governing Mass Effect are killed off and you are the executioner holding the bloody axe. Some may consider that a shyamalanalanyan tweeeaast. I consider it a false narrative. A bad one.


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#252
Jadebaby

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magnetite wrote...

If people want spoon fed explanations or spoon fed action, you're playing the wrong kind of game.

This series of games is quite thought provoking and the ending is proof of that. It's not a simple action scene or mindless ending like most movies and such. It's quite the opposite actually.

The gaming industry needs more thought-provoking and things like Mass Effect.


No offense, but I wouldn't go around saying this. What if Indoctrination Theory turns out to be false?

#253
Podge 90

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If you think the ME3 ending is thought-provoking you should read more. No, seriously.

#254
Biotic Sage

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Podge 90 wrote...

If you think the ME3 ending is thought-provoking you should read more. No, seriously.


How condescending, let me try! 

If you don't think the ME3 ending is thought-provoking, you should read more.  How was that?

#255
Applepie_Svk

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Jade8aby88 wrote...

magnetite wrote...

If people want spoon fed explanations or spoon fed action, you're playing the wrong kind of game.

This series of games is quite thought provoking and the ending is proof of that. It's not a simple action scene or mindless ending like most movies and such. It's quite the opposite actually.

The gaming industry needs more thought-provoking and things like Mass Effect.


No offense, but I wouldn't go around saying this. What if Indoctrination Theory turns out to be false?


game industry want finish product at fist place and not some unfinished so called thought-provoking crap... I wasn´t paying for my own headcanon...

Modifié par Applepie_Svk, 23 octobre 2012 - 09:51 .


#256
ld1449

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The only thought provoking aspect of ME3's ending is just how bad they ****ed up. It literally broke every rule of literature that has ever been established. And that still stands even with the EC

#257
crimzontearz

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I really wonder .....was all this hatred, depression and resentment REALLY what Bioware wanted? Are they happy some of us really can't enjoy their game anymore because we can't bring ourselves to stomach this crap they called an ending?

guess we will never know the truth

#258
Someone With Mass

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iakus wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

oh and

Halo 4 has a bittersweet ending



but it is done MILES better than ME3's


Heck, DA2's ending was better than ME3's


Even Borderlands 2 had a better ending and that's because it did what was expected of it and didn't decide to become disgustingly pretentious during the last twenty minutes.

#259
Brovikk Rasputin

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Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

iakus wrote...
Personalized ending slides alone could greatly reduce the complaints

We have that. The slides reflect certain choices you made in the game, like the decision on Rannoch or Tuchanka, or who lives or dies of the ME2 team members. For Jack and Miranda you even get different slides based on whether you romanced them or not.



No, just no.

Yes they do.

#260
Hudathan

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crimzontearz wrote...

I really wonder .....was all this hatred, depression and resentment REALLY what Bioware wanted? Are they happy some of us really can't enjoy their game anymore because we can't bring ourselves to stomach this crap they called an ending?

guess we will never know the truth

Yes, they intentionally did a bad thing just so they could ruin their life's work and make sure no one could have fun with their games anymore.

#261
toddx77

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From the few pages I read a lot of what I think has been said. As for using your imagination I find that just insulting and lazy for Mass Effect 3 because there was a lack of closure.

#262
FlamingBoy

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Ieldra2 wrote...

iakus wrote...
Personalized ending slides alone could greatly reduce the complaints

We have that. The slides reflect certain choices you made in the game, like the decision on Rannoch or Tuchanka, or who lives or dies of the ME2 team members. For Jack and Miranda you even get different slides based on whether you romanced them or not.




no where near good enough considering what bioware implied before the game released

#263
Guest_A Bethesda Fan_*

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The only reason we were buying games from this stupid trilogy is because we liked what it was about and how things were been done.
To say we were spoiled for spending money on what we expected to be the bare basics is idiotic.
We bought it because we liked it and they get money = win/win.

Works the same for every game.
Are we all spoiled for giving money away for something we were deceived on, no.

#264
Ithurael

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Reth Shepherd wrote...

I still think Koobismo of Marauder Shields fame put it best.

When I started penning down the rough scenario for "Marauder Shields", I took the analytical approach, disseminating the story, themes and the bouquet of emotions seen in the first 2.9 games of the Mass Effect trilogy... And I believe I identified the word defining its guiding emotion. Hope. Hope for rescuing the galaxy, hope for stopping Saren, hope for humanity to show their true worth and join the other Council species... Hope that the desperate search for the Conduit will produce a miracleous way of stopping the Reapers... Hope that Shepard will friggin' come back from the rubble, with epic fanfares going on in the background.

The second game opens with Shepard declared as a "bloody icon", a symbol giving hope for humanity, its unity, its future... If we lose Shepard, humanity might well follow. Why do you think the narrative makes such a big deal out of this? Because Shepard is such a good shot, or such a powerful biotic? No. Because it implies that what the Normandy did in the first Mass Effect had consequences - and placed it in a unique position of being the nexus of galactic unity. One needed so badly in such desperate times. The Illusive Man clearly understands this, whatever we think about his shady plans or dangerous philosophy. He rebuilds the Normandy, investing significant resources, but he makes sure that the ship looks similar, he makes sure that the name stays the same. Because he understands he isn't just rebuilding a ship. Whatever his ulterior motives are... at that time he is reigniting the Beacon of Hope.

End of Mass Effect 2. Commander Shepard strouts through the Normandy. The ship is heavily damaged after the assault on the Collector Base... but she'll live. She'll fight. She died once before, as did Shepard, but the music announces that this is far from over. The crew members check their weapons, manly looks are exchanged (with Jack delivering the manliest, which I absolutely loved) and... Shepard stops at the viewport, starring down the stars, mirroring the ending scene from "Empire Strikes Back"... The narrative tells you, with the use of this simple, yet awesome scene, that with the help of your loyal crew, you can overcome any obstacles. You can fight and win. Because no matter the odds, there is always hope.

Mass Effect 3. Despite some logical and narrative flaws present in the story from the very beginning (the Crucible plot appearing from nowhere, Cerberus suddenly becoming a Bond-like villain organization), the game follows the emotional guidance of its predecessors to the letter (allow me to emphasize the fact that the "governing emotion" is *not* the same as a "theme"). The situation may be dire, the death of millions may haunt you 'til the day you die... But there *is* hope. *You* are the hope. And you achieve miracles. Turians and krogan working together. The geth and quarian fleets united. The galaxy gathering under a single banner... You see in their eyes the same fear that would take the heart of you. And you know a day may come when the courage of men fails, when we all forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship... But it was not that day! An hour of wolves and shattered shields, when the age of freedom comes crashing down... But it was not that day! That day... You fought. And the Free People of the Galaxy stood there with you... Holding the line.

The ending of Mass Effect 3. Everything changes. The narrative drops its core for no significant storytelling reason other than "we wanted to write it this way". Shepard's fight-until-the-end attitude, the only element of his (or hers) character identical for all players, gets broken off-screen. Nearly all major themes of the series are suddenly dropped and replaced by a twisted version of ME1's "organics vs. synthetics", no longer valid in this universe due to the events and ideas shared with the players in ME2 and ME3 - the concept evolved during the series, changed, progressed and, at the crucial moment, was slammed back to its original, embryo state. The game unexpectedly shifts from space opera science-fiction to space fantasy. And finally... The emotional guidance of the series suddenly vaporates and is surplanted with a substitute, a piece that doesn't fit the puzzle. Hope dies.

One could argue that the solutions presented by the StarChild grant you some kind of hope... And one would be wrong. The very philosophical themes of the ending indicate that nothing matters, neither in the past (all choices become invalidated), nor the future (everything can be invalidated once again, by another godlike creature with an even stupider plan - these are the new rules of the narrative). Your hopes, presented to you over the course of the narrative, were false - this is why it stings so much to return to the previous games, this is why replayability gets murdered by this finale. Let me emphasize this... The crucial emotion of Mass Effect was HOPE. Believing in a positive outcome fueled by your efforts and sacrifices, which is invalidated retroactively. You can hide away the "it's about the journey" asspull - how can you take the same journey again, how can you hope again, if you know that it's just a lie?

Instead, you are left with a scene of a godlike creature shifting the universe and life to its bidding... And you are assisting with it. You are not choosing, not really (unless you accept the Refusal ending, which is yet another emotional play to make you think of Synthesis as the right choice, no matter how wrong it really is) - you are selecting one of the options the StarChild is okay with. And each of the endings, from the mildly horrible Destroy, through pretty horrible Control, to the absolutely horrible Synthesis means one and the same thing... Your world ends, the current rules of reality governing Mass Effect are killed off and you are the executioner holding the bloody axe. Some may consider that a shyamalanalanyan tweeeaast. I consider it a false narrative. A bad one.


+9000

#265
crimzontearz

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Hudathan wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

I really wonder .....was all this hatred, depression and resentment REALLY what Bioware wanted? Are they happy some of us really can't enjoy their game anymore because we can't bring ourselves to stomach this crap they called an ending?

guess we will never know the truth

Yes, they intentionally did a bad thing just so they could ruin their life's work and make sure no one could have fun with their games anymore.

lots of sarcastaball played in this post


 
Then explain to me why they are not attempting to fix it properly please

#266
Apocaleepse360

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Ithurael wrote...

Reth Shepherd wrote...

I still think Koobismo of Marauder Shields fame put it best.

When I started penning down the rough scenario for "Marauder Shields", I took the analytical approach, disseminating the story, themes and the bouquet of emotions seen in the first 2.9 games of the Mass Effect trilogy... And I believe I identified the word defining its guiding emotion. Hope. Hope for rescuing the galaxy, hope for stopping Saren, hope for humanity to show their true worth and join the other Council species... Hope that the desperate search for the Conduit will produce a miracleous way of stopping the Reapers... Hope that Shepard will friggin' come back from the rubble, with epic fanfares going on in the background.

The second game opens with Shepard declared as a "bloody icon", a symbol giving hope for humanity, its unity, its future... If we lose Shepard, humanity might well follow. Why do you think the narrative makes such a big deal out of this? Because Shepard is such a good shot, or such a powerful biotic? No. Because it implies that what the Normandy did in the first Mass Effect had consequences - and placed it in a unique position of being the nexus of galactic unity. One needed so badly in such desperate times. The Illusive Man clearly understands this, whatever we think about his shady plans or dangerous philosophy. He rebuilds the Normandy, investing significant resources, but he makes sure that the ship looks similar, he makes sure that the name stays the same. Because he understands he isn't just rebuilding a ship. Whatever his ulterior motives are... at that time he is reigniting the Beacon of Hope.

End of Mass Effect 2. Commander Shepard strouts through the Normandy. The ship is heavily damaged after the assault on the Collector Base... but she'll live. She'll fight. She died once before, as did Shepard, but the music announces that this is far from over. The crew members check their weapons, manly looks are exchanged (with Jack delivering the manliest, which I absolutely loved) and... Shepard stops at the viewport, starring down the stars, mirroring the ending scene from "Empire Strikes Back"... The narrative tells you, with the use of this simple, yet awesome scene, that with the help of your loyal crew, you can overcome any obstacles. You can fight and win. Because no matter the odds, there is always hope.

Mass Effect 3. Despite some logical and narrative flaws present in the story from the very beginning (the Crucible plot appearing from nowhere, Cerberus suddenly becoming a Bond-like villain organization), the game follows the emotional guidance of its predecessors to the letter (allow me to emphasize the fact that the "governing emotion" is *not* the same as a "theme"). The situation may be dire, the death of millions may haunt you 'til the day you die... But there *is* hope. *You* are the hope. And you achieve miracles. Turians and krogan working together. The geth and quarian fleets united. The galaxy gathering under a single banner... You see in their eyes the same fear that would take the heart of you. And you know a day may come when the courage of men fails, when we all forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship... But it was not that day! An hour of wolves and shattered shields, when the age of freedom comes crashing down... But it was not that day! That day... You fought. And the Free People of the Galaxy stood there with you... Holding the line.

The ending of Mass Effect 3. Everything changes. The narrative drops its core for no significant storytelling reason other than "we wanted to write it this way". Shepard's fight-until-the-end attitude, the only element of his (or hers) character identical for all players, gets broken off-screen. Nearly all major themes of the series are suddenly dropped and replaced by a twisted version of ME1's "organics vs. synthetics", no longer valid in this universe due to the events and ideas shared with the players in ME2 and ME3 - the concept evolved during the series, changed, progressed and, at the crucial moment, was slammed back to its original, embryo state. The game unexpectedly shifts from space opera science-fiction to space fantasy. And finally... The emotional guidance of the series suddenly vaporates and is surplanted with a substitute, a piece that doesn't fit the puzzle. Hope dies.

One could argue that the solutions presented by the StarChild grant you some kind of hope... And one would be wrong. The very philosophical themes of the ending indicate that nothing matters, neither in the past (all choices become invalidated), nor the future (everything can be invalidated once again, by another godlike creature with an even stupider plan - these are the new rules of the narrative). Your hopes, presented to you over the course of the narrative, were false - this is why it stings so much to return to the previous games, this is why replayability gets murdered by this finale. Let me emphasize this... The crucial emotion of Mass Effect was HOPE. Believing in a positive outcome fueled by your efforts and sacrifices, which is invalidated retroactively. You can hide away the "it's about the journey" asspull - how can you take the same journey again, how can you hope again, if you know that it's just a lie?

Instead, you are left with a scene of a godlike creature shifting the universe and life to its bidding... And you are assisting with it. You are not choosing, not really (unless you accept the Refusal ending, which is yet another emotional play to make you think of Synthesis as the right choice, no matter how wrong it really is) - you are selecting one of the options the StarChild is okay with. And each of the endings, from the mildly horrible Destroy, through pretty horrible Control, to the absolutely horrible Synthesis means one and the same thing... Your world ends, the current rules of reality governing Mass Effect are killed off and you are the executioner holding the bloody axe. Some may consider that a shyamalanalanyan tweeeaast. I consider it a false narrative. A bad one.


+9000


+9001.

#267
Jadebaby

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Apocaleepse360 wrote...

Ithurael wrote...

Reth Shepherd wrote...

I still think Koobismo of Marauder Shields fame put it best.

When I started penning down the rough scenario for "Marauder Shields", I took the analytical approach, disseminating the story, themes and the bouquet of emotions seen in the first 2.9 games of the Mass Effect trilogy... And I believe I identified the word defining its guiding emotion. Hope. Hope for rescuing the galaxy, hope for stopping Saren, hope for humanity to show their true worth and join the other Council species... Hope that the desperate search for the Conduit will produce a miracleous way of stopping the Reapers... Hope that Shepard will friggin' come back from the rubble, with epic fanfares going on in the background.

The second game opens with Shepard declared as a "bloody icon", a symbol giving hope for humanity, its unity, its future... If we lose Shepard, humanity might well follow. Why do you think the narrative makes such a big deal out of this? Because Shepard is such a good shot, or such a powerful biotic? No. Because it implies that what the Normandy did in the first Mass Effect had consequences - and placed it in a unique position of being the nexus of galactic unity. One needed so badly in such desperate times. The Illusive Man clearly understands this, whatever we think about his shady plans or dangerous philosophy. He rebuilds the Normandy, investing significant resources, but he makes sure that the ship looks similar, he makes sure that the name stays the same. Because he understands he isn't just rebuilding a ship. Whatever his ulterior motives are... at that time he is reigniting the Beacon of Hope.

End of Mass Effect 2. Commander Shepard strouts through the Normandy. The ship is heavily damaged after the assault on the Collector Base... but she'll live. She'll fight. She died once before, as did Shepard, but the music announces that this is far from over. The crew members check their weapons, manly looks are exchanged (with Jack delivering the manliest, which I absolutely loved) and... Shepard stops at the viewport, starring down the stars, mirroring the ending scene from "Empire Strikes Back"... The narrative tells you, with the use of this simple, yet awesome scene, that with the help of your loyal crew, you can overcome any obstacles. You can fight and win. Because no matter the odds, there is always hope.

Mass Effect 3. Despite some logical and narrative flaws present in the story from the very beginning (the Crucible plot appearing from nowhere, Cerberus suddenly becoming a Bond-like villain organization), the game follows the emotional guidance of its predecessors to the letter (allow me to emphasize the fact that the "governing emotion" is *not* the same as a "theme"). The situation may be dire, the death of millions may haunt you 'til the day you die... But there *is* hope. *You* are the hope. And you achieve miracles. Turians and krogan working together. The geth and quarian fleets united. The galaxy gathering under a single banner... You see in their eyes the same fear that would take the heart of you. And you know a day may come when the courage of men fails, when we all forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship... But it was not that day! An hour of wolves and shattered shields, when the age of freedom comes crashing down... But it was not that day! That day... You fought. And the Free People of the Galaxy stood there with you... Holding the line.

The ending of Mass Effect 3. Everything changes. The narrative drops its core for no significant storytelling reason other than "we wanted to write it this way". Shepard's fight-until-the-end attitude, the only element of his (or hers) character identical for all players, gets broken off-screen. Nearly all major themes of the series are suddenly dropped and replaced by a twisted version of ME1's "organics vs. synthetics", no longer valid in this universe due to the events and ideas shared with the players in ME2 and ME3 - the concept evolved during the series, changed, progressed and, at the crucial moment, was slammed back to its original, embryo state. The game unexpectedly shifts from space opera science-fiction to space fantasy. And finally... The emotional guidance of the series suddenly vaporates and is surplanted with a substitute, a piece that doesn't fit the puzzle. Hope dies.

One could argue that the solutions presented by the StarChild grant you some kind of hope... And one would be wrong. The very philosophical themes of the ending indicate that nothing matters, neither in the past (all choices become invalidated), nor the future (everything can be invalidated once again, by another godlike creature with an even stupider plan - these are the new rules of the narrative). Your hopes, presented to you over the course of the narrative, were false - this is why it stings so much to return to the previous games, this is why replayability gets murdered by this finale. Let me emphasize this... The crucial emotion of Mass Effect was HOPE. Believing in a positive outcome fueled by your efforts and sacrifices, which is invalidated retroactively. You can hide away the "it's about the journey" asspull - how can you take the same journey again, how can you hope again, if you know that it's just a lie?

Instead, you are left with a scene of a godlike creature shifting the universe and life to its bidding... And you are assisting with it. You are not choosing, not really (unless you accept the Refusal ending, which is yet another emotional play to make you think of Synthesis as the right choice, no matter how wrong it really is) - you are selecting one of the options the StarChild is okay with. And each of the endings, from the mildly horrible Destroy, through pretty horrible Control, to the absolutely horrible Synthesis means one and the same thing... Your world ends, the current rules of reality governing Mass Effect are killed off and you are the executioner holding the bloody axe. Some may consider that a shyamalanalanyan tweeeaast. I consider it a false narrative. A bad one.


+9000


+9001.

+9002

#268
Tomwew

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Jade8aby88 wrote...

Apocaleepse360 wrote...

Ithurael wrote...

Reth Shepherd wrote...

I still think Koobismo of Marauder Shields fame put it best.

When I started penning down the rough scenario for "Marauder Shields", I took the analytical approach, disseminating the story, themes and the bouquet of emotions seen in the first 2.9 games of the Mass Effect trilogy... And I believe I identified the word defining its guiding emotion. Hope. Hope for rescuing the galaxy, hope for stopping Saren, hope for humanity to show their true worth and join the other Council species... Hope that the desperate search for the Conduit will produce a miracleous way of stopping the Reapers... Hope that Shepard will friggin' come back from the rubble, with epic fanfares going on in the background.

The second game opens with Shepard declared as a "bloody icon", a symbol giving hope for humanity, its unity, its future... If we lose Shepard, humanity might well follow. Why do you think the narrative makes such a big deal out of this? Because Shepard is such a good shot, or such a powerful biotic? No. Because it implies that what the Normandy did in the first Mass Effect had consequences - and placed it in a unique position of being the nexus of galactic unity. One needed so badly in such desperate times. The Illusive Man clearly understands this, whatever we think about his shady plans or dangerous philosophy. He rebuilds the Normandy, investing significant resources, but he makes sure that the ship looks similar, he makes sure that the name stays the same. Because he understands he isn't just rebuilding a ship. Whatever his ulterior motives are... at that time he is reigniting the Beacon of Hope.

End of Mass Effect 2. Commander Shepard strouts through the Normandy. The ship is heavily damaged after the assault on the Collector Base... but she'll live. She'll fight. She died once before, as did Shepard, but the music announces that this is far from over. The crew members check their weapons, manly looks are exchanged (with Jack delivering the manliest, which I absolutely loved) and... Shepard stops at the viewport, starring down the stars, mirroring the ending scene from "Empire Strikes Back"... The narrative tells you, with the use of this simple, yet awesome scene, that with the help of your loyal crew, you can overcome any obstacles. You can fight and win. Because no matter the odds, there is always hope.

Mass Effect 3. Despite some logical and narrative flaws present in the story from the very beginning (the Crucible plot appearing from nowhere, Cerberus suddenly becoming a Bond-like villain organization), the game follows the emotional guidance of its predecessors to the letter (allow me to emphasize the fact that the "governing emotion" is *not* the same as a "theme"). The situation may be dire, the death of millions may haunt you 'til the day you die... But there *is* hope. *You* are the hope. And you achieve miracles. Turians and krogan working together. The geth and quarian fleets united. The galaxy gathering under a single banner... You see in their eyes the same fear that would take the heart of you. And you know a day may come when the courage of men fails, when we all forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship... But it was not that day! An hour of wolves and shattered shields, when the age of freedom comes crashing down... But it was not that day! That day... You fought. And the Free People of the Galaxy stood there with you... Holding the line.

The ending of Mass Effect 3. Everything changes. The narrative drops its core for no significant storytelling reason other than "we wanted to write it this way". Shepard's fight-until-the-end attitude, the only element of his (or hers) character identical for all players, gets broken off-screen. Nearly all major themes of the series are suddenly dropped and replaced by a twisted version of ME1's "organics vs. synthetics", no longer valid in this universe due to the events and ideas shared with the players in ME2 and ME3 - the concept evolved during the series, changed, progressed and, at the crucial moment, was slammed back to its original, embryo state. The game unexpectedly shifts from space opera science-fiction to space fantasy. And finally... The emotional guidance of the series suddenly vaporates and is surplanted with a substitute, a piece that doesn't fit the puzzle. Hope dies.

One could argue that the solutions presented by the StarChild grant you some kind of hope... And one would be wrong. The very philosophical themes of the ending indicate that nothing matters, neither in the past (all choices become invalidated), nor the future (everything can be invalidated once again, by another godlike creature with an even stupider plan - these are the new rules of the narrative). Your hopes, presented to you over the course of the narrative, were false - this is why it stings so much to return to the previous games, this is why replayability gets murdered by this finale. Let me emphasize this... The crucial emotion of Mass Effect was HOPE. Believing in a positive outcome fueled by your efforts and sacrifices, which is invalidated retroactively. You can hide away the "it's about the journey" asspull - how can you take the same journey again, how can you hope again, if you know that it's just a lie?

Instead, you are left with a scene of a godlike creature shifting the universe and life to its bidding... And you are assisting with it. You are not choosing, not really (unless you accept the Refusal ending, which is yet another emotional play to make you think of Synthesis as the right choice, no matter how wrong it really is) - you are selecting one of the options the StarChild is okay with. And each of the endings, from the mildly horrible Destroy, through pretty horrible Control, to the absolutely horrible Synthesis means one and the same thing... Your world ends, the current rules of reality governing Mass Effect are killed off and you are the executioner holding the bloody axe. Some may consider that a shyamalanalanyan tweeeaast. I consider it a false narrative. A bad one.


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#269
Yate

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Catalyst REALLY isn't happy about Destroy though. It'll accept it's death, and be OK with it, as you put it, but Destroy isn't what it wants, at all.

#270
N7 Shadow Liara

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Jade8aby88 wrote...

Apocaleepse360 wrote...

Ithurael wrote...

Reth Shepherd wrote...

I still think Koobismo of Marauder Shields fame put it best.

When I started penning down the rough scenario for "Marauder Shields", I took the analytical approach, disseminating the story, themes and the bouquet of emotions seen in the first 2.9 games of the Mass Effect trilogy... And I believe I identified the word defining its guiding emotion. Hope. Hope for rescuing the galaxy, hope for stopping Saren, hope for humanity to show their true worth and join the other Council species... Hope that the desperate search for the Conduit will produce a miracleous way of stopping the Reapers... Hope that Shepard will friggin' come back from the rubble, with epic fanfares going on in the background.

The second game opens with Shepard declared as a "bloody icon", a symbol giving hope for humanity, its unity, its future... If we lose Shepard, humanity might well follow. Why do you think the narrative makes such a big deal out of this? Because Shepard is such a good shot, or such a powerful biotic? No. Because it implies that what the Normandy did in the first Mass Effect had consequences - and placed it in a unique position of being the nexus of galactic unity. One needed so badly in such desperate times. The Illusive Man clearly understands this, whatever we think about his shady plans or dangerous philosophy. He rebuilds the Normandy, investing significant resources, but he makes sure that the ship looks similar, he makes sure that the name stays the same. Because he understands he isn't just rebuilding a ship. Whatever his ulterior motives are... at that time he is reigniting the Beacon of Hope.

End of Mass Effect 2. Commander Shepard strouts through the Normandy. The ship is heavily damaged after the assault on the Collector Base... but she'll live. She'll fight. She died once before, as did Shepard, but the music announces that this is far from over. The crew members check their weapons, manly looks are exchanged (with Jack delivering the manliest, which I absolutely loved) and... Shepard stops at the viewport, starring down the stars, mirroring the ending scene from "Empire Strikes Back"... The narrative tells you, with the use of this simple, yet awesome scene, that with the help of your loyal crew, you can overcome any obstacles. You can fight and win. Because no matter the odds, there is always hope.

Mass Effect 3. Despite some logical and narrative flaws present in the story from the very beginning (the Crucible plot appearing from nowhere, Cerberus suddenly becoming a Bond-like villain organization), the game follows the emotional guidance of its predecessors to the letter (allow me to emphasize the fact that the "governing emotion" is *not* the same as a "theme"). The situation may be dire, the death of millions may haunt you 'til the day you die... But there *is* hope. *You* are the hope. And you achieve miracles. Turians and krogan working together. The geth and quarian fleets united. The galaxy gathering under a single banner... You see in their eyes the same fear that would take the heart of you. And you know a day may come when the courage of men fails, when we all forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship... But it was not that day! An hour of wolves and shattered shields, when the age of freedom comes crashing down... But it was not that day! That day... You fought. And the Free People of the Galaxy stood there with you... Holding the line.

The ending of Mass Effect 3. Everything changes. The narrative drops its core for no significant storytelling reason other than "we wanted to write it this way". Shepard's fight-until-the-end attitude, the only element of his (or hers) character identical for all players, gets broken off-screen. Nearly all major themes of the series are suddenly dropped and replaced by a twisted version of ME1's "organics vs. synthetics", no longer valid in this universe due to the events and ideas shared with the players in ME2 and ME3 - the concept evolved during the series, changed, progressed and, at the crucial moment, was slammed back to its original, embryo state. The game unexpectedly shifts from space opera science-fiction to space fantasy. And finally... The emotional guidance of the series suddenly vaporates and is surplanted with a substitute, a piece that doesn't fit the puzzle. Hope dies.

One could argue that the solutions presented by the StarChild grant you some kind of hope... And one would be wrong. The very philosophical themes of the ending indicate that nothing matters, neither in the past (all choices become invalidated), nor the future (everything can be invalidated once again, by another godlike creature with an even stupider plan - these are the new rules of the narrative). Your hopes, presented to you over the course of the narrative, were false - this is why it stings so much to return to the previous games, this is why replayability gets murdered by this finale. Let me emphasize this... The crucial emotion of Mass Effect was HOPE. Believing in a positive outcome fueled by your efforts and sacrifices, which is invalidated retroactively. You can hide away the "it's about the journey" asspull - how can you take the same journey again, how can you hope again, if you know that it's just a lie?

Instead, you are left with a scene of a godlike creature shifting the universe and life to its bidding... And you are assisting with it. You are not choosing, not really (unless you accept the Refusal ending, which is yet another emotional play to make you think of Synthesis as the right choice, no matter how wrong it really is) - you are selecting one of the options the StarChild is okay with. And each of the endings, from the mildly horrible Destroy, through pretty horrible Control, to the absolutely horrible Synthesis means one and the same thing... Your world ends, the current rules of reality governing Mass Effect are killed off and you are the executioner holding the bloody axe. Some may consider that a shyamalanalanyan tweeeaast. I consider it a false narrative. A bad one.


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#271
Isichar

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N7 Shadow Liara wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Apocaleepse360 wrote...

Ithurael wrote...

Reth Shepherd wrote...

I still think Koobismo of Marauder Shields fame put it best.

When I started penning down the rough scenario for "Marauder Shields", I took the analytical approach, disseminating the story, themes and the bouquet of emotions seen in the first 2.9 games of the Mass Effect trilogy... And I believe I identified the word defining its guiding emotion. Hope. Hope for rescuing the galaxy, hope for stopping Saren, hope for humanity to show their true worth and join the other Council species... Hope that the desperate search for the Conduit will produce a miracleous way of stopping the Reapers... Hope that Shepard will friggin' come back from the rubble, with epic fanfares going on in the background.

The second game opens with Shepard declared as a "bloody icon", a symbol giving hope for humanity, its unity, its future... If we lose Shepard, humanity might well follow. Why do you think the narrative makes such a big deal out of this? Because Shepard is such a good shot, or such a powerful biotic? No. Because it implies that what the Normandy did in the first Mass Effect had consequences - and placed it in a unique position of being the nexus of galactic unity. One needed so badly in such desperate times. The Illusive Man clearly understands this, whatever we think about his shady plans or dangerous philosophy. He rebuilds the Normandy, investing significant resources, but he makes sure that the ship looks similar, he makes sure that the name stays the same. Because he understands he isn't just rebuilding a ship. Whatever his ulterior motives are... at that time he is reigniting the Beacon of Hope.

End of Mass Effect 2. Commander Shepard strouts through the Normandy. The ship is heavily damaged after the assault on the Collector Base... but she'll live. She'll fight. She died once before, as did Shepard, but the music announces that this is far from over. The crew members check their weapons, manly looks are exchanged (with Jack delivering the manliest, which I absolutely loved) and... Shepard stops at the viewport, starring down the stars, mirroring the ending scene from "Empire Strikes Back"... The narrative tells you, with the use of this simple, yet awesome scene, that with the help of your loyal crew, you can overcome any obstacles. You can fight and win. Because no matter the odds, there is always hope.

Mass Effect 3. Despite some logical and narrative flaws present in the story from the very beginning (the Crucible plot appearing from nowhere, Cerberus suddenly becoming a Bond-like villain organization), the game follows the emotional guidance of its predecessors to the letter (allow me to emphasize the fact that the "governing emotion" is *not* the same as a "theme"). The situation may be dire, the death of millions may haunt you 'til the day you die... But there *is* hope. *You* are the hope. And you achieve miracles. Turians and krogan working together. The geth and quarian fleets united. The galaxy gathering under a single banner... You see in their eyes the same fear that would take the heart of you. And you know a day may come when the courage of men fails, when we all forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship... But it was not that day! An hour of wolves and shattered shields, when the age of freedom comes crashing down... But it was not that day! That day... You fought. And the Free People of the Galaxy stood there with you... Holding the line.

The ending of Mass Effect 3. Everything changes. The narrative drops its core for no significant storytelling reason other than "we wanted to write it this way". Shepard's fight-until-the-end attitude, the only element of his (or hers) character identical for all players, gets broken off-screen. Nearly all major themes of the series are suddenly dropped and replaced by a twisted version of ME1's "organics vs. synthetics", no longer valid in this universe due to the events and ideas shared with the players in ME2 and ME3 - the concept evolved during the series, changed, progressed and, at the crucial moment, was slammed back to its original, embryo state. The game unexpectedly shifts from space opera science-fiction to space fantasy. And finally... The emotional guidance of the series suddenly vaporates and is surplanted with a substitute, a piece that doesn't fit the puzzle. Hope dies.

One could argue that the solutions presented by the StarChild grant you some kind of hope... And one would be wrong. The very philosophical themes of the ending indicate that nothing matters, neither in the past (all choices become invalidated), nor the future (everything can be invalidated once again, by another godlike creature with an even stupider plan - these are the new rules of the narrative). Your hopes, presented to you over the course of the narrative, were false - this is why it stings so much to return to the previous games, this is why replayability gets murdered by this finale. Let me emphasize this... The crucial emotion of Mass Effect was HOPE. Believing in a positive outcome fueled by your efforts and sacrifices, which is invalidated retroactively. You can hide away the "it's about the journey" asspull - how can you take the same journey again, how can you hope again, if you know that it's just a lie?

Instead, you are left with a scene of a godlike creature shifting the universe and life to its bidding... And you are assisting with it. You are not choosing, not really (unless you accept the Refusal ending, which is yet another emotional play to make you think of Synthesis as the right choice, no matter how wrong it really is) - you are selecting one of the options the StarChild is okay with. And each of the endings, from the mildly horrible Destroy, through pretty horrible Control, to the absolutely horrible Synthesis means one and the same thing... Your world ends, the current rules of reality governing Mass Effect are killed off and you are the executioner holding the bloody axe. Some may consider that a shyamalanalanyan tweeeaast. I consider it a false narrative. A bad one.


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#272
Yate

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I really don't see why people hate on Destroy. Yeah, the geth are gone, but we all knew there'd be sacrifices. If we won the war conventionally but lost the geth, would people still complain? I don't think so, so it must be something about Catalyst. It's like people still see the Reapers as 'winning'. But they only really win if Synthesis is picked, otherwise they're brainwashed or dead. Shepard won, Catalyst lost, no question about that. It's just that Catalyst accepted it's defeat and tried to help Shepard at the end, which isn't bad writing at all, even if it is a little unsatisfying for a video game.

#273
PinkysPain

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Yate wrote...
What do you people want, exactly?.

Just for instance :

At the end I want to be able to go into the bowels of the citadel to the catalysts processing cores and subvert whatever link he has over the reapers to make the reapers drop their kinetic shields, at which point my allies start turning back the tide and winning (with greater or lesser losses depending war assets etc). I want to have the sniveling brat there to see my victory, whining about how I've doomed the universe and then turn off his voice processors while I destroy everything he ever created and put on my shades.

Deal with it.

Modifié par PinkysPain, 23 octobre 2012 - 02:31 .


#274
wantedman dan

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Yate wrote...

I really don't see why people hate on Destroy. Yeah, the geth are gone, but we all knew there'd be sacrifices. If we won the war conventionally but lost the geth, would people still complain? I don't think so, so it must be something about Catalyst. It's like people still see the Reapers as 'winning'. But they only really win if Synthesis is picked, otherwise they're brainwashed or dead. Shepard won, Catalyst lost, no question about that. It's just that Catalyst accepted it's defeat and tried to help Shepard at the end, which isn't bad writing at all, even if it is a little unsatisfying for a video game.


You don't understand the difference between choosing to sacrifice your own life and sacrificing the life of another?

#275
Steelcan

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Yate wrote...

I really don't see why people hate on Destroy. Yeah, the geth are gone, but we all knew there'd be sacrifices. If we won the war conventionally but lost the geth, would people still complain? I don't think so, so it must be something about Catalyst. It's like people still see the Reapers as 'winning'. But they only really win if Synthesis is picked, otherwise they're brainwashed or dead. Shepard won, Catalyst lost, no question about that. It's just that Catalyst accepted it's defeat and tried to help Shepard at the end, which isn't bad writing at all, even if it is a little unsatisfying for a video game.

^. I agree wholeheartedly