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[Fawx9]

CDR David Shepard wrote...

iakus wrote...

DAO if the Warden lives, can have numerous conversations with followers and npcs you met throughout the game, and can talk about "what happens next"

Shepard, regardless of what you want to happen, if left gasping, alone and injured, in a pile of rubble.  it's hard for me, at least, for Shepard to survive the next hour, let alone til rescue arrives.  There's too little to build on

Yes...but the Warden only lives if they sleep with/or talk their friend into sleeping with a witch to create a new god of untold power.

Also...Shepard "dies" saving the galaxy and future civilizations by completely ending the reaper cycle...while the Warden only stops that Blight.

DA:O was one game with an expansion if your Warden lived.

Mass Effect was three games.

So while the Warden can survive the first game and talk to people during the aftermath and then be used in the expansion...

Shepard survives the first game...to be used in the second game...and if they survive the second game...they can be used for the third game to completely end the main threat.

So I think ME beats DA:O on what the main character can do if they survive...

DA:O also had a funeral and different character outcomes if you chose to sacrifice youself.

Other than getting green eyes with the space magic ending we dont get to see anything different for what are companions are up to.

[inko1nsiderate]

iakus wrote...

DAO if the Warden lives, can have numerous conversations with followers and npcs you met throughout the game, and can talk about "what happens next"

Shepard, regardless of what you want to happen, if left gasping, alone and injured, in a pile of rubble.  it's hard for me, at least, for Shepard to survive the next hour, let alone til rescue arrives.  There's too little to build on

That is fine, that is why I said Bioware took a risk.  It paid off for me personally, but it isn't surprising that it didn't pay off for other people.  We all bring in different preferences and tastes and not everyone is going to like the same things.  ME3 gives me enough to work with, so I'm happy with it.  DA:O is a little too neatly packaged for me, and while I enjoy that game, it just doesn't get me the way ME3 does.

[Yate]

Zooter wrote...

Big time cop out. How could you justify not giving closure to your main protagonist. We have played as Shepard for three games. But at the end of the game none of it ever mattered cause they just tell you to imagine your own ending. I thought they said we were gonna get closure? Oh well, I guess I'm gonna have to deal with it.

Death of a character = Closure you unbelievable moron

[Tootles FTW]

CDR David Shepard wrote...

Tootles FTW wrote...

CDR David Shepard wrote...

Haha...well that's just a bad analogy...

...we're talking about weeks and weeks (years if you played ME1 when it first came out) of arguably amazing sex...followed by what you describe as a "donkey punch" on the final night.

Seriously though...I can see your point...and granted...I loved the series...endings and all...

...but I think the journey alone is and should be worth the "several hundred dollars" the person spends on the series. (though I only bought the three games myself)

And I so rarely get to use "donkey punch" in an analogy. 

My point, wrapped in snark, was that the ending to ME3 (and I'm talking pre-EC) was so awful that it retroactively ruined the entire series.  It made all of Shepard's efforts moot when based upon what was displayed in-game (the relays blowing up, Normandy crashing) all of allies were stranded forever & ever.

Apparently I was supposed to use *~*MY IMAGINATION *~* to realize that what was very clearly shown...didn't actually happen as shown?  The EC fixes a lot of my issues, honestly, but this doesn't change the fact that Bioware refuses to acknowledge - they retconned a large portion of the ending from the vanilla game to allow some sort of sense of victory.  Before EC, yes, the journey was ruined.

I see what you're saying...

...but I will admit that I believe this is a "shortsighted" way of viewing Shepards accomplishments.

Granted...I definitely wanted the same thing. I wanted Shepards friends and all the characters I grew attached to survive and live great lives and all that...

However, Shepard's real accomplishment is that he stopped the reapers completely. The galactic civilizations 50,000 years from then...100,000 years from then...150,000 years from then...and so on...

...have Shepard to thank for them...even if they don't know it at that point. Shepard's main purpose wasn't just to save his friends and loved ones from harm...it was to save present and future civilizations by ending a cycle that has went on for so long...

To trivialize this by saying that you didn't get to see Shepards friends live happily ever after and saying his accomplishment meant nothing because of this is "shortsighted".

...but I do get your point.

Well, I'm not so short-sighted as to simply take into account the well-being of Shepard's crew/friends.  Let's just talk about the victory fleet for now.  In the end the entire victory fleet which is composed of the majority (if not ALL) of each races military forces are left stranded above Earth.  The relays are destroyed in all of the ending cinematics.

Certainly the entire Quarian armada must have been present besides a very small contigency that stayed with Rannoch, no?  The Quarians would have no chance of reaching their homeworld within their lifetimes through conventional FTL travel.  In fact, this would be the case for all races except perhaps the Asari & Krogan (long lived as they are) - but unlike the Quarians they do not have a food source on their ships & certainly fuel isn't as readily abundant in the wide expanse of space as to allow every single vessel to make the entire journey.

Earth doesn't have the supplies or the space to support the refugees if they stayed, and it also doesn't have the resources to lend them should they choose to attempt the return home.

See what I mean about the bleakness of this ending?  Yes, the Reapers are gone, but all of these people are left to starve (the dextros) or remain castaways on a planet that is lightyears from their loved ones/home.  It's the most backhanded, crap-covered "....yay?" endings I have ever had the misfortune of experiencing.  I love the series so much it actually devastated me for weeks afterwards.  I don't need to see MY friends get a happily ever after, but if I didn't at least win it for the thousands/millions? of people that fought alongside me I consider that a thematic fail.

[Mr. MannlyMan]

...I didn't want to have "full creative control" (for whatever THAT's worth) over the MEU. I couldn't care less if the ending I got was exactly the one I wanted, and I sure as hell wasn't desperate for a happy reunion ending or anything like that.

I just wanted something that made sense, that gave closure to my choices, and that was made by the storyteller. I don't care how much control Bioware gave me over the Shepard character; headcannoning my own ending isn't fun or satisfying to me in the least because IT'S NOT MY STORY. I got invested in Bioware's story, and it doesn't feel right to have to dream up new scenes or chapters for a story that isn't mine.

[Zooter]

Yate wrote...

Zooter wrote...

Big time cop out. How could you justify not giving closure to your main protagonist. We have played as Shepard for three games. But at the end of the game none of it ever mattered cause they just tell you to imagine your own ending. I thought they said we were gonna get closure? Oh well, I guess I'm gonna have to deal with it.

Death of a character = Closure you unbelievable moron

 

Yep a tost in breathe scene is closure. I think its called a cliffhanger=speculations for everyone.

[Asch Lavigne]

I accept Shepard's fate, that has never been a problem for me, What bugs me is that we got to see slides of what everyone from Jack to Jacob does after the ending, is it really too much to ask what happened to my squadmates? Does Tali learn agricultural skills? Where does Liara move the new Shadow Broker base to? (you know she can't leave it in the Normandy). What does Garrus do? (especially without his FemShep). I don't think that's too much to ask for.

[sUiCiDeKiNgS13]

Imagination is free
Games cost $65

Bioware is accountable of the poorness of the games ending. EA is their accountabilibuddy, which makes them accountabilibuddyable.

[CDR David Shepard]

Tootles FTW wrote...

Well, I'm not so short-sighted as to simply take into account the well-being of Shepard's crew/friends.  Let's just talk about the victory fleet for now.  In the end the entire victory fleet which is composed of the majority (if not ALL) of each races military forces are left stranded above Earth.  The relays are destroyed in all of the ending cinematics.

Certainly the entire Quarian armada must have been present besides a very small contigency that stayed with Rannoch, no?  The Quarians would have no chance of reaching their homeworld within their lifetimes through conventional FTL travel.  In fact, this would be the case for all races except perhaps the Asari & Krogan (long lived as they are) - but unlike the Quarians they do not have a food source on their ships & certainly fuel isn't as readily abundant in the wide expanse of space as to allow every single vessel to make the entire journey.

Earth doesn't have the supplies or the space to support the refugees if they stayed, and it also doesn't have the resources to lend them should they choose to attempt the return home.

See what I mean about the bleakness of this ending?  Yes, the Reapers are gone, but all of these people are left to starve (the dextros) or remain castaways on a planet that is lightyears from their loved ones/home.  It's the most backhanded, crap-covered "....yay?" endings I have ever had the misfortune of experiencing.  I love the series so much it actually devastated me for weeks afterwards.  I don't need to see MY friends get a happily ever after, but if I didn't at least win it for the thousands/millions? of people that fought alongside me I consider that a thematic fail.

Ok...I definitely see what you're saying there.

However, if this didn't happen...the reapers would have completely wiped these races out.

So, while it is definitely bleak...as you say...you basically have the choice of...

...chance for a future right now...or no chance at all.

On the bright side...while we can't estimate on how fast the relays could be fixed...you could always assume it could be done "quick" now that every race is "working together".

Modifié par CDR David Shepard, 22 octobre 2012 - 06:15 .

[deatharmonic]

 Nothing happened to imagination ...

I use it every night ...




... Along with my hand 

[Iakus]

CDR David Shepard wrote...

iakus wrote...

DAO if the Warden lives, can have numerous conversations with followers and npcs you met throughout the game, and can talk about "what happens next"

Shepard, regardless of what you want to happen, if left gasping, alone and injured, in a pile of rubble.  it's hard for me, at least, for Shepard to survive the next hour, let alone til rescue arrives.  There's too little to build on

Yes...but the Warden only lives if they sleep with/or talk their friend into sleeping with a witch to create a new god of untold power.

No.  There are two other ways the Warden can live.

Also...Shepard "dies" saving the galaxy and future civilizations by completely ending the reaper cycle...while the Warden only stops that Blight.

DA:O was one game with an expansion if your Warden lived.

Mass Effect was three games.

So while the Warden can survive the first game and talk to people during the aftermath and then be used in the expansion...

Shepard survives the first game...to be used in the second game...and if they survive the second game...they can be used for the third game to completely end the main threat.

So I think ME beats DA:O on what the main character can do if they survive...

What does this have to do with anything?

[Yate]

Zooter wrote...

Yate wrote...

Zooter wrote...

Big time cop out. How could you justify not giving closure to your main protagonist. We have played as Shepard for three games. But at the end of the game none of it ever mattered cause they just tell you to imagine your own ending. I thought they said we were gonna get closure? Oh well, I guess I'm gonna have to deal with it.

Death of a character = Closure you unbelievable moron

 

Yep a tost in breathe scene is closure. I think its called a cliffhanger=speculations for everyone.

Either Shepard's dead or he's alive doing Shepard stuff. What more do you need?

[Yate]

Asch Lavigne wrote...

I accept Shepard's fate, that has never been a problem for me, What bugs me is that we got to see slides of what everyone from Jack to Jacob does after the ending, is it really too much to ask what happened to my squadmates? Does Tali learn agricultural skills? Where does Liara move the new Shadow Broker base to? (you know she can't leave it in the Normandy). What does Garrus do? (especially without his FemShep). I don't think that's too much to ask for.

These are seriously your questions? Does the tech expert become a farmer, and where is Liara's house? Palaven's still burning and you ask what Garrus will be doing?

[Yate]

And I guarantee Earth has dextro food.

[Iakus]

Yate wrote...

Zooter wrote...

Yate wrote...

Zooter wrote...

Big time cop out. How could you justify not giving closure to your main protagonist. We have played as Shepard for three games. But at the end of the game none of it ever mattered cause they just tell you to imagine your own ending. I thought they said we were gonna get closure? Oh well, I guess I'm gonna have to deal with it.

Death of a character = Closure you unbelievable moron

 

Yep a tost in breathe scene is closure. I think its called a cliffhanger=speculations for everyone.

Either Shepard's dead or he's alive doing Shepard stuff. What more do you need?

How about a Shepard that looks like he/she is gonna live long enough to do "Shepard stuff"?

Rather than a hook for a sequel that will never come?

[CDR David Shepard]

iakus wrote...

CDR David Shepard wrote...

iakus wrote...

DAO if the Warden lives, can have numerous conversations with followers and npcs you met throughout the game, and can talk about "what happens next"

Shepard, regardless of what you want to happen, if left gasping, alone and injured, in a pile of rubble.  it's hard for me, at least, for Shepard to survive the next hour, let alone til rescue arrives.  There's too little to build on

Yes...but the Warden only lives if they sleep with/or talk their friend into sleeping with a witch to create a new god of untold power.

No.  There are two other ways the Warden can live.

Also...Shepard "dies" saving the galaxy and future civilizations by completely ending the reaper cycle...while the Warden only stops that Blight.

DA:O was one game with an expansion if your Warden lived.

Mass Effect was three games.

So while the Warden can survive the first game and talk to people during the aftermath and then be used in the expansion...

Shepard survives the first game...to be used in the second game...and if they survive the second game...they can be used for the third game to completely end the main threat.

So I think ME beats DA:O on what the main character can do if they survive...

What does this have to do with anything?

...???

My point is that comparing the Warden of DAO to Shepard of only ME3 in the "who can do more if they survive" competition is unfair.

As I said...if one was to compare DAO to ME2...on the whole..."if the main character survives"...

Then ME beats out DAO on what you can do after your character survives. 

[Yate]

sUiCiDeKiNgS13 wrote...

Imagination is free
Games cost $65

Bioware is accountable of the poorness of the games ending. EA is their accountabilibuddy, which makes them accountabilibuddyable.

Yes, because it's not like you got fantastic gameplay and hours of story out of it.

[Asch Lavigne]

Yate wrote...

Asch Lavigne wrote...

I accept Shepard's fate, that has never been a problem for me, What bugs me is that we got to see slides of what everyone from Jack to Jacob does after the ending, is it really too much to ask what happened to my squadmates? Does Tali learn agricultural skills? Where does Liara move the new Shadow Broker base to? (you know she can't leave it in the Normandy). What does Garrus do? (especially without his FemShep). I don't think that's too much to ask for.

These are seriously your questions? Does the tech expert become a farmer, and where is Liara's house? Palaven's still burning and you ask what Garrus will be doing?

No, that's just my number one question. Sure I wanted to know how do worlds rebuild. If you pick Destory how in heck do you clean up dead Reapers? If no one was building new relays how did they know how to rebuild the broken ones? What was the debriefing like with everyone if you chose anything but Destroy? Etc... I just don't care about Shepard, I'm good there.

Modifié par Asch Lavigne, 22 octobre 2012 - 06:23 .

[Xellith]

Tell ya what. Give me the money I paid for ME3 and Ill just imagine a better game.

[Yate]

iakus wrote...

Yate wrote...

Zooter wrote...

Yate wrote...

Zooter wrote...

Big time cop out. How could you justify not giving closure to your main protagonist. We have played as Shepard for three games. But at the end of the game none of it ever mattered cause they just tell you to imagine your own ending. I thought they said we were gonna get closure? Oh well, I guess I'm gonna have to deal with it.

Death of a character = Closure you unbelievable moron

 

Yep a tost in breathe scene is closure. I think its called a cliffhanger=speculations for everyone.

Either Shepard's dead or he's alive doing Shepard stuff. What more do you need?

How about a Shepard that looks like he/she is gonna live long enough to do "Shepard stuff"?

Rather than a hook for a sequel that will never come?

How is that a sequel hook? The Reapers are gone, there's no major unresolved plot line. Relax.

[Yate]

Asch Lavigne wrote...

Yate wrote...

Asch Lavigne wrote...

I accept Shepard's fate, that has never been a problem for me, What bugs me is that we got to see slides of what everyone from Jack to Jacob does after the ending, is it really too much to ask what happened to my squadmates? Does Tali learn agricultural skills? Where does Liara move the new Shadow Broker base to? (you know she can't leave it in the Normandy). What does Garrus do? (especially without his FemShep). I don't think that's too much to ask for.

These are seriously your questions? Does the tech expert become a farmer, and where is Liara's house? Palaven's still burning and you ask what Garrus will be doing?

No, that's just my number one question. Sure I wanted to know how do worlds rebuild. If you pick Destory how in heck do you clean up dead Reapers? If no one was building new relays how did they know how to rebuild the broken ones? Etc... I just don't care about Shepard, I'm good there.

Same way you'd deal with destroyed ships?

It's stated in game they have the technology to make mass relays.

[Yate]

Xellith wrote...

Tell ya what. Give me the money I paid for ME3 and Ill just imagine a better game.

Nobody forced you to buy it. Or forced you to complain about it on these forums.

[Pantanplan]

Pantanplan wrote...

Yate wrote...

Fate of Shepard is perfectly clear:

Dead, Overlord of the Universe, or Alive.

Why do you need a reunion cutscene?

Mass Effect 3's plot is perfectly clear:

Shepard gathers allies, solves old grudges, builds an ancient superweapon, unites the galaxy and defeats the Reapers.

Why do you need a video game?

Still haven't got a rebutal.

[Iakus]

CDR David Shepard wrote...

...???

My point is that comparing the Warden of DAO to Shepard of only ME3 in the "who can do more if they survive" competition is unfair.

As I said...if one was to compare DAO to ME2...on the whole..."if the main character survives"...

Then ME beats out DAO on what you can do after your character survives. 

I'm not talking about what I as a player can do with a character.  I'm talking about satisfactory endings and room for imagination.  The Warden can die.  Or the Warden can live.  And if the Warden lives, can go forth and do...whatever.  Plenty of posibilities, as shown by the conversations. 

Shepard gets dead, dead, dead, and maybe alive/gasping.  Possibilities are severely limited.