384 réponses à ce sujet

[Yate]

Apocaleepse360 wrote...

Let me ask you a serious question.

Just how many books come with about 20 or so blank pages at the end for you to fill in yourself?

None. How many books have left the fate of the main character(s) ambiguous? Well, just off the top of my head there's Catch-22, The Princess Bride, and The Grapes of Wrath, all widely accepted as among the best books ever written.

[Mr.House]

Yate wrote...

Apocaleepse360 wrote...

Let me ask you a serious question.

Just how many books come with about 20 or so blank pages at the end for you to fill in yourself?

None. How many books have left the fate of the main character(s) ambiguous? Well, just off the top of my head there's Catch-22, The Princess Bride, and The Grapes of Wrath, all widely accepted as among the best books ever written.

Ambiguous endings are fine when done well, ME3 did not do it well, nor after five years with this character in a trilogy should it be ambiguous.

[Apocaleepse360]

Mr.House wrote...

Yate wrote...

Apocaleepse360 wrote...

Let me ask you a serious question.

Just how many books come with about 20 or so blank pages at the end for you to fill in yourself?

None. How many books have left the fate of the main character(s) ambiguous? Well, just off the top of my head there's Catch-22, The Princess Bride, and The Grapes of Wrath, all widely accepted as among the best books ever written.

Ambiguous endings are fine when done well, ME3 did not do it well, nor after five years with this character in a trilogy should it be ambiguous.

Beat me to it. 

[The Night Mammoth]

Yate wrote...

Apocaleepse360 wrote...

Let me ask you a serious question.

Just how many books come with about 20 or so blank pages at the end for you to fill in yourself?

None. How many books have left the fate of the main character(s) ambiguous? Well, just off the top of my head there's Catch-22, The Princess Bride, and The Grapes of Wrath, all widely accepted as among the best books ever written.

Ambiguity is not inherently a good thing. Just look at ME3's ending. 

[XxBrokenBonezxX]

Yate wrote...

Apocaleepse360 wrote...

Let me ask you a serious question.

Just how many books come with about 20 or so blank pages at the end for you to fill in yourself?

None. How many books have left the fate of the main character(s) ambiguous? Well, just off the top of my head there's Catch-22, The Princess Bride, and The Grapes of Wrath, all widely accepted as among the best books ever written.

This isn't a book, this is a video game but I see what you're getting at. This isn't a game that you play one time and say, that was cool like Call of Duty. This is a trilogy. Star Wars - trilogy. You don't know exactly what happens after the ewok party <_<, but you do know that Luke, Han and Leia all go on to have lives together. We get closure as to their future. Shepard's we do not.

[TJBartlemus]

Mr.House wrote...

Yate wrote...

Apocaleepse360 wrote...

Let me ask you a serious question.

Just how many books come with about 20 or so blank pages at the end for you to fill in yourself?

None. How many books have left the fate of the main character(s) ambiguous? Well, just off the top of my head there's Catch-22, The Princess Bride, and The Grapes of Wrath, all widely accepted as among the best books ever written.

Ambiguous endings are fine when done well, ME3 did not do it well, nor after five years with this character in a trilogy should it be ambiguous.

I agree. Cliffhangers are fine and all but not as the supposed END to the trilogy. If he is to die and not be in the next trilogy, so be it. But to have him live in one of the endings and it isn't explained or elaborated on...no. Just no.

[bt043]

Lack of imagination doesn't seem to be an issue for those players when it comes to the romance subplots. Wonder why?

[XxBrokenBonezxX]

bt043 wrote...

Lack of imagination doesn't seem to be an issue for those players when it comes to the romance subplots. Wonder why?

You're about as ambigious with this statement as Bioware was with ME3's ending. That's one of the main problems. Those who were faithful..had a 3 game spanning romance, and yet there is no resolution for that either. Pre-EC romance was a horribly done slpa in the face, and I won't even touch ME2 romances in ME3. And even with EC we get a goodbye scene that is fine for control and synthesis. But for destroy, it isn't enough. The LI looking off in the distance like some cheesy movie while Shepard is laying in the rubble is just ridiculous.

[Mathias]

Yate wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

I do love my little arts n' crafts...

I expected to have the best week ever! Instead I got artistic 2deep4u schlock.

I'd take Catalyst over Deus Ex Machina Carebear Ewoks any day.

Well that's just odd.

[3DandBeyond]

crimzontearz wrote...

I am not only missing a cutscene (a reunion cutscene) but I am also told to IMAGINE the fate of my character

Yeah, no **** this

This exactly.

I have no trouble imagining a lot of things.  I started playing games when there was no such thing as graphics, other than text that described a scene and you typed in what the character in the game did next.  I still think about how hard it must have been to catch a fish in the ear.

I don't mind imagination.  I hate having to make up all kinds of reasons for things in order to fix a game and to get rid of nonsense and ambiguity.  I hate having to imagine that the hero of the game, in order to achieve (maybe) the goal of 3 games, did not just kill the main people who have always understood there was a reaper problem.  I hate having the hero in order to achieve this goal, have to listen to garbage logic and then not even know with any reasonable certainty just exactly what s/he will be doing by making a choice.

Endings that leave you to imagine what comes next have been done well.  But ME3 requires that you must imagine the whole context of the endings and that Shepard didn't just do something very stupid.  And not only do you have to then imagine a reunion for the torso, you have to imagine where the torso is, what shape the galaxy is in (the Hackett narrative notwithstanding), the fate of the geth, just exactly what all the stuff the kid said about destroy meant, and you have to imagine a whole lot of stuff that would have been better included in a VIDEO GAME.  It's a visual medium that is supposed to be fun.  And part of that fun is having a "you won" type feeling.  Not, a "WTF just happened" type feeling that you must imagine away.  Shepard was the player's avatar in the game and the most important character within it.  It was not only important for his/her friends to see Shepard alive, but also for Shepard to know that they are ok, too.  My imagination is free, these games cost a lot of money.

[Iakus]

knightnblu wrote...

I have been a BioWare fan since Baldur's Gate and I have purchased a lot of their titles. I thought that I knew them, but I was way wrong. Some of that is likely EA's influence, but some of the responsibility rests with BioWare as well. If you have a long time fan that is having second thoughts like me, that means that BioWare has some issues. I was forgiving about DA2. I was forgiving about the recent ME novel. But fouling up ME3 and misleading me about what was coming was the straw that broke the camel's back.

What do I want? I wanted an ending that made sense in the context of the story. What I got wasn't that. Why? Because somebody at BioWare wanted to make 'art' instead of telling a story and in the process they ruined the ending.

knightblu, we haven't always seen eye to eye.  But I agree with every word of your post.  

And yes, I've been a Bioware fan since BG1 as well.

[Nightwriter]

Yate wrote...

Why is everyone upset that we didn't get more cutscenes of Shepard's allies?

Why does everyone act like the choices didn't make a difference in the universe?

Why are you all incapable of accepting that the ending is open-ended, and try to force BW to give clarify absolutely every little thing that happened?

What do you people want, exactly?.

You people have no idea how spoiled we are, being able to see everything that happens in the game in high-quality cutscenes with phenomenal voice acting. And you complain about the little bits of sideplot that happen from the EMS screen? What ever happened to imagination? What ever happened to enjoying open-ended adventures and coming up with your own stories? No other series has given players such opportunity to create their own universe, and you whine that your every action isn't given a unique cutscene?

Bah, I'm probably wasting my time. If you did get all this stuff, you'd whine about railroading and that YOUR Shepard would never blink like he did in that cutscene. Hell, you morons actually managed to whine your way into getting an ending where Shepard derps and chooses at the last second not to save the universe. And then you get mad at the fact that refusing to do the one thing the plot says you have to do makes you lose the game. Unbelievable.

THERE ARE STARVING PEOPLE IN CHINA. CLEAN YOUR PLATE. WHEN I WAS YOUR AGE I HAD TO IMAGINE THAT I WAS EATING FILLING FOOD. YET YOU SIT THERE COMPLAINING THAT YOUR HOT POCKET IS FROZEN IN THE MIDDLE. UNGRATEFUL.

[Slayer299]

CDR David Shepard wrote...

I wouldn't waste my time.

I've tried to sway those who have a bad opinion on the game to see it how I see it...but it's a lost cause.

Everyone has their own opinions.

I can't make them like it...just like they can't make me hate it.

I came to a point where now, whenever I see hate on these forums...which is basically everywhere...I just simply think, sucks to be you. I got to enjoy a great trilogy while you obviously did not.

It sounds selfish...but really...I just don't care.

The amount of hate thrown into every single thread where the topic doesn't even ask for the opinions given...is so absurd that it's not even worth replying to or caring about these people.

Unfortunately...starting a thread like this only gives them another place to show their hate for the game. You won't change their opinions.

Of course he won't, not when he goes onto insult everyone who *didn't* like the endings and go on to call them 'whiners'. So, it's not everyone else who couldn't stand the ending, its the OP who started throwing mud here...

[sentinel_87]

XxBrokenBonezxX wrote...

You're about as ambigious with this statement as Bioware was with ME3's ending. That's one of the main problems. Those who were faithful..had a 3 game spanning romance, and yet there is no resolution for that either. Pre-EC romance was a horribly done slpa in the face, and I won't even touch ME2 romances in ME3. And even with EC we get a goodbye scene that is fine for control and synthesis. But for destroy, it isn't enough. The LI looking off in the distance like some cheesy movie while Shepard is laying in the rubble is just ridiculous.

I only go with destroy, so the first time I saw this I thought the character was supposed to be in denial.  When compared with the other endings you do see, albeit slight, a difference. 

As posted earlier, there is no need to use your imagination with control or synthesis.  With destroy that is different.  I think some imagination is good, even necessary.  But a pile of rubble is not a good place to have to start in my opinion.

Just one slide, one slide added to the ending would remove all doubt and complaints about Shepard.  I still hope they add something.  From there the player can use their imagination as they see fit.

[Iakus]

sentinel_87 wrote...

As posted earlier, there is no need to use your imagination with control or synthesis.  With destroy that is different.  I think some imagination is good, even necessary.  But a pile of rubble is not a good place to have to start in my opinion.

Just one slide, one slide added to the ending would remove all doubt and complaints about Shepard.  I still hope they add something.  From there the player can use their imagination as they see fit.

this 
THIS!
THIS!!!

[Tomwew]

Mr.House wrote...

Yate wrote...

Apocaleepse360 wrote...

Let me ask you a serious question.

Just how many books come with about 20 or so blank pages at the end for you to fill in yourself?

None. How many books have left the fate of the main character(s) ambiguous? Well, just off the top of my head there's Catch-22, The Princess Bride, and The Grapes of Wrath, all widely accepted as among the best books ever written.

Ambiguous endings are fine when done well, ME3 did not do it well, nor after five years with this character in a trilogy should it be ambiguous.

ah mr. house how appropriate you would defend closure, you're game is a fine example of it. and how to make choices matter, but that's for another thread.

[XxBrokenBonezxX]

sentinel_87 wrote...

XxBrokenBonezxX wrote...

You're about as ambigious with this statement as Bioware was with ME3's ending. That's one of the main problems. Those who were faithful..had a 3 game spanning romance, and yet there is no resolution for that either. Pre-EC romance was a horribly done slpa in the face, and I won't even touch ME2 romances in ME3. And even with EC we get a goodbye scene that is fine for control and synthesis. But for destroy, it isn't enough. The LI looking off in the distance like some cheesy movie while Shepard is laying in the rubble is just ridiculous.

I only go with destroy, so the first time I saw this I thought the character was supposed to be in denial.  When compared with the other endings you do see, albeit slight, a difference. 

As posted earlier, there is no need to use your imagination with control or synthesis.  With destroy that is different.  I think some imagination is good, even necessary.  But a pile of rubble is not a good place to have to start in my opinion.

Just one slide, one slide added to the ending would remove all doubt and complaints about Shepard.  I still hope they add something.  From there the player can use their imagination as they see fit.

It's insulting that we're asking for something like this. The fact that closure was given in 2/3 of the ending and not the other one is just unbelievable. And when we practiaclly beg for closure because we care, we get things like refusal just to spite us.

[Steelcan]

XxBrokenBonezxX wrote...

bt043 wrote...

Lack of imagination doesn't seem to be an issue for those players when it comes to the romance subplots. Wonder why?

You're about as ambigious with this statement as Bioware was with ME3's ending. That's one of the main problems. Those who were faithful..had a 3 game spanning romance, and yet there is no resolution for that either. Pre-EC romance was a horribly done slpa in the face, and I won't even touch ME2 romances in ME3. And even with EC we get a goodbye scene that is fine for control and synthesis. But for destroy, it isn't enough. The LI looking off in the distance like some cheesy movie while Shepard is laying in the rubble is just ridiculous.

. If it was even your LI.  I had Liara not put my name up, but my LI was light years away.  I romanced Liara in ME and then promptly ended it, twice, once in LotSB and again in ME3.  Miranda was not on the Normandy, because..... I got nothing.

[XxBrokenBonezxX]

Steelcan wrote...

XxBrokenBonezxX wrote...

bt043 wrote...

Lack of imagination doesn't seem to be an issue for those players when it comes to the romance subplots. Wonder why?

You're about as ambigious with this statement as Bioware was with ME3's ending. That's one of the main problems. Those who were faithful..had a 3 game spanning romance, and yet there is no resolution for that either. Pre-EC romance was a horribly done slpa in the face, and I won't even touch ME2 romances in ME3. And even with EC we get a goodbye scene that is fine for control and synthesis. But for destroy, it isn't enough. The LI looking off in the distance like some cheesy movie while Shepard is laying in the rubble is just ridiculous.

. If it was even your LI.  I had Liara not put my name up, but my LI was light years away.  I romanced Liara in ME and then promptly ended it, twice, once in LotSB and again in ME3.  Miranda was not on the Normandy, because..... I got nothing.

I said I wouldn't  talk about it, but it's an absolute shame the way Miranda as well as all of the ME2 romances were handled. I was a big Miri fan in ME2, and I romanced her in all 9 of my playthroughs (haha), and unfortunately have never romanced her in ME3. And while the holo calls were a nice touch, but just not enough.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

First the memorial scene on the ship is going to be weeks or months after, anyway. It looks like the repairs were all done and it was just before taking off. They knew Anderson was dead somehow, but it was questionable about Shepard? It's not the entire crew there either. They don't even have to do anything really. They can just remove the breath scene. Perhaps they fixed the comm buoy. Just as the name is going up from one of the crew.

"Just got a call! The Commander Shepard's alive!"

Cut to credits. And it's a real cheap edit to do and can be done in a patch, not a DLC.

[Capt. Pancake]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

What I thought of when I read title:
http://ts2.mm.bing.n...891937&pid=15.1

hilarious
that's the way to think inside the box
no disrespect to the poster just if u saw the episode that's what makes it hilarious

Modifié par Capt. Pancake, 23 octobre 2012 - 05:01 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

XxBrokenBonezxX wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

XxBrokenBonezxX wrote...

bt043 wrote...

Lack of imagination doesn't seem to be an issue for those players when it comes to the romance subplots. Wonder why?

You're about as ambigious with this statement as Bioware was with ME3's ending. That's one of the main problems. Those who were faithful..had a 3 game spanning romance, and yet there is no resolution for that either. Pre-EC romance was a horribly done slpa in the face, and I won't even touch ME2 romances in ME3. And even with EC we get a goodbye scene that is fine for control and synthesis. But for destroy, it isn't enough. The LI looking off in the distance like some cheesy movie while Shepard is laying in the rubble is just ridiculous.

. If it was even your LI.  I had Liara not put my name up, but my LI was light years away.  I romanced Liara in ME and then promptly ended it, twice, once in LotSB and again in ME3.  Miranda was not on the Normandy, because..... I got nothing.

I said I wouldn't  talk about it, but it's an absolute shame the way Miranda as well as all of the ME2 romances were handled. I was a big Miri fan in ME2, and I romanced her in all 9 of my playthroughs (haha), and unfortunately have never romanced her in ME3. And while the holo calls were a nice touch, but just not enough.

I'm a Liaramancer. I have to say that the ME2 romances were very poorly handled. You guys can be upset about Jack. You guys can be upset about Miranda. I'll say yeah, that wasn't good.

But I played exclusively femShep. All I have to say is one word: Jacob. Imagine my shock when I met him.

[wantedman dan]

Lovely. Another speech rife with biodronism.

Maybe these boards will end up the same as Runescape's RSB.

Dead.

[XxBrokenBonezxX]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

XxBrokenBonezxX wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

XxBrokenBonezxX wrote...

bt043 wrote...

Lack of imagination doesn't seem to be an issue for those players when it comes to the romance subplots. Wonder why?

You're about as ambigious with this statement as Bioware was with ME3's ending. That's one of the main problems. Those who were faithful..had a 3 game spanning romance, and yet there is no resolution for that either. Pre-EC romance was a horribly done slpa in the face, and I won't even touch ME2 romances in ME3. And even with EC we get a goodbye scene that is fine for control and synthesis. But for destroy, it isn't enough. The LI looking off in the distance like some cheesy movie while Shepard is laying in the rubble is just ridiculous.

. If it was even your LI.  I had Liara not put my name up, but my LI was light years away.  I romanced Liara in ME and then promptly ended it, twice, once in LotSB and again in ME3.  Miranda was not on the Normandy, because..... I got nothing.

I said I wouldn't  talk about it, but it's an absolute shame the way Miranda as well as all of the ME2 romances were handled. I was a big Miri fan in ME2, and I romanced her in all 9 of my playthroughs (haha), and unfortunately have never romanced her in ME3. And while the holo calls were a nice touch, but just not enough.

I'm a Liaramancer. I have to say that the ME2 romances were very poorly handled. You guys can be upset about Jack. You guys can be upset about Miranda. I'll say yeah, that wasn't good.

But I played exclusively femShep. All I have to say is one word: Jacob. Imagine my shock when I met him.

I never really liked Jacob, and I only play MaleShep. But even as a Male Shep player I feel like the totally dissed all the Jacob romancers. I've come to really like Liara, and after 3 playthroughs of ME3 so far, hers was definetly the best handled. All of the others that I have seen, for instance Ash which I romanced in 2 playthroughs, is really disconnected. Liara is a lot more talkative, and I'm not sure if that's on purpose or not.

[Biotic Sage]

While I don't really like your confrontational tone, OP, I do agree with the core sentiment. Although I don't think "imagination" is the best word to use. Imagination is more about creating something out of nothing. I would instead use the word "perceptibility" or "thoughtfullness" or "literary/cinematic awareness." All of the pieces are laid out for us, and it's up to us to put them together. I didn't need the EC slideshows at the end to understand that's what the consequences would be to each respective decision. As for a "lack of resolution," there was plot resolution throughout the entire game and character resolution right before the climax when Shepard said his goodbyes. Just because it happens pre-climax doesn't mean the resolution doesn't exist.

As for other criticisms of what some call "space magic" or "circular logic," that's a matter of taste and not everyone's cup of tea. To me the "space magic" is just good science fiction; it isn't hard science fiction but for me good science fiction will present a "what if" scenario that is philosophically challenging. The choice between Destroy, Control, and Synthesis is philosophically challenging to me; I am still considering the merits and shortcomings for each one to this day. As for the "circular logic," it's not, it just may be logic based on a false premise (the Singularity paradigm). The Catalyst is "preserving" life from a big picture standpoint, but obviously the way it is doing so is not acceptable to us or to its creators, the Leviathans. That's why it's ironic. It's not evil, it is emotionally detached and possibly misguided depending on your views on the Singularity. That to me is a great sci-fi antagonist.