320 réponses à ce sujet

[The Teyrn of Whatever]

ziloe wrote...

I've found it odd in that most RPGs I've played, there's rarely an interesting black character. I know a lot of people weren't crazy about Jacob, but at least he proved that in the future, black people still existed. Even if this character came from an entirely different nation and culture, it's something I'd like to see added to the DA franchise, and not just as some dude you talk to once, but as a full on awesome party member. 

((Discuss))

Hawke can be black or yellow, if you so choose, but I see what you're saying. The Warden of any race can be dark-skinned, although it usually makes them look weird since most origins feature family or clan relatives. It only really works for a Mage.

[Sharn01]

If you want to encourage people to have a desire to include a black character I think you need to pick a better one then Jacob

If you where playing male Shep Jacob was Shepard light who didn't really contribute anything to the game other then shoving his face into recruitment conversation's and giving bad advice.

If your where playing female Shep it was the same as above but any time your character talked to Jacob control was completely taken away from you and you where forced to flirt, drool and want nothing more then to spread your legs for him in every conversation, which caused many players to just ignore him completely.

[ziloe]

The Teryn of Whatever wrote...

ziloe wrote...

I've found it odd in that most RPGs I've played, there's rarely an interesting black character. I know a lot of people weren't crazy about Jacob, but at least he proved that in the future, black people still existed. Even if this character came from an entirely different nation and culture, it's something I'd like to see added to the DA franchise, and not just as some dude you talk to once, but as a full on awesome party member. 

((Discuss))

Hawke can be black or yellow, if you so choose, but I see what you're saying. The Warden of any race can be dark-skinned, although it usually makes them look weird since most origins feature family or clan relatives. It only really works for a Mage.

It doesn't matter that the player character can be that. What matters is having an interesting character, who isn't the player character, and who happens to be of a different ethnicity. And no, I don't think being as dark as Isabella counts, because that goes back to my point that a lot of dark skinned cultures feel ashamed of being too dark skinned, due to what the western media presents as beautiful skin. Which has led them to do something called, browning.

Modifié par ziloe, 23 octobre 2012 - 04:55 .

[ziloe]

Sharn01 wrote...

If you want to encourage people to have a desire to include a black character I think you need to pick a better one then Jacob

If you where playing male Shep Jacob was Shepard light who didn't really contribute anything to the game other then shoving his face into recruitment conversation's and giving bad advice.

If your where playing female Shep it was the same as above but any time your character talked to Jacob control was completely taken away from you and you where forced to flirt, drool and want nothing more then to spread your legs for him in every conversation, which caused many players to just ignore him completely.

I only bring up Jacob, because he was playable. And obviously a better example would be Anderson, but again, he's not playable.

[Arppis]

Isabella was interesting...

...to have in bed. Because after that I needed a lot of oinments and stuff... it was "interesting".

[Palipride47]

ziloe wrote...

It doesn't matter that the player character can be that. What matters is having an interesting character, who isn't the player character, and who happens to be of a different ethnicity. And no, I don't think being as dark as Isabella counts, because that goes back to my point that a lot of dark skinned cultures feel ashamed of being too dark skinned, due to what the western media presents as beautiful skin. Which has led them to do something called, browning.

I'm not sure about your term "browning" but I will agree/ diasgree with you

~~~~

NOTE:  For my point,

When I refer to a black person, I am referring to someone who looks like this....

 


To the Point: 

I think we NEED formidable, powerful, awesome people with some melanin in the skin. However, because this is a "fantasy" game, having "black" people could be perceived as:

1. Pandering (or)
2. Insensitivity (and be)
3. Controversial (We've already got problems with Isabela, and she's not even "black"!)

Should it be? No!

But it will be.

The fantasy-scape of Thedas means we don't need to think of "race" in our Real World Sense, but the dark skinned Rivainis and possibly "African culture inspired" Fog Warriors may provide that chance for inclusion without as much "racial" baggage. 

I just want people who have afros or "nappy hair" and dark skin to not be intimidated to pick up a video game, just like a woman or a gay person or someone who is not cis-gender. I want them to plug in a game and feel like they aren't a stereotype and this game was made for them in mind as well. 

Bioware has, in my opinion, done that wonderfully. Better than many, many other video game developers.

I will not cry over the fact than Isabela is tan vs. "black" (whatever "black" MEANS TO YOU) because "black" means something different to everyone, being purely a social construct.

At the very least, she was not "white," and she was not a "color stereotype" (maybe some other stereotypes, but not that one) and Bioware has defended her "darkness" when it was brought into question.

There.*sigh*

Modifié par Palipride47, 24 octobre 2012 - 02:10 .

[ziloe]

Palipride47 wrote...

ziloe wrote...

It doesn't matter that the player character can be that. What matters is having an interesting character, who isn't the player character, and who happens to be of a different ethnicity. And no, I don't think being as dark as Isabella counts, because that goes back to my point that a lot of dark skinned cultures feel ashamed of being too dark skinned, due to what the western media presents as beautiful skin. Which has led them to do something called, browning.

I'm not sure about your term "browning" but I will agree/ diasgree with you

~~~~

NOTE:  For my point, I will define black = an African American that has dark enough skin by American standards to be called black (Pres. Obama tone or something) with an "afro" or otherwise "not white" hair, or something. Not always true within American society, much less others, YMMV


I think we NEED formidable, powerful, awesome people with some melanin in the skin. However, because this is a "fantasy" game, having "black" people could be perceived as:

1. Pandering (or)
2. Insensitivity (and be)
3. Controversial (We've already got problems with Isabela, and she's not even "black"!)

Should it be? No!

But it will be. And the fantasy-scape of our dark skinned Rivainis and possibly "African culture inspired" Fog Warriors (someone mentioned that as a rumor here) may provide that chance without as much "racial" baggage. 

I just want people who have afros or "nappy hair" and dark skin to not be intimidated to pick up a video game, just like a woman or a gay person or someone who is not cis-gender. I want them to plug in a game and feel like they aren't a stereotype and this game was made for them in mind as well. 

Bioware has, imo, done that wonderfully. Better than many, many other video game developers.

I will not cry over the fact than Isabela is tan vs. "black" (whatever black MEANS TO YOU, as it means something different to everyone, being purely a social construct, after all) because at least, she was not "white," she was not a "color steroetype" (maybe some other stereotypes, but not that one) and Bioware defended her "darkness" when it was questioned.....

There.*sigh*

I wholeheartedly agree with this. If you'd fix it up a little, I could even add it to the first post so it applies more to newcomers.

As for the term "browning", I learned the term when I attended an art event, and young african woman did spoken word, her first spoken word on the subject of the unfortunate fact that bleaching has become more prominent for very dark skinned young women, and how they shouldn't be afraid to embrace who they are. Supposedly the idea stems from seeing very light skinned, famous black women in media being praised, in comparison to their much darker counterparts barely being seen at all.

Modifié par ziloe, 23 octobre 2012 - 06:49 .

[Palipride47]

ziloe wrote...

Palipride47 wrote...

ziloe wrote...

It doesn't matter that the player character can be that. What matters is having an interesting character, who isn't the player character, and who happens to be of a different ethnicity. And no, I don't think being as dark as Isabella counts, because that goes back to my point that a lot of dark skinned cultures feel ashamed of being too dark skinned, due to what the western media presents as beautiful skin. Which has led them to do something called, browning.

I'm not sure about your term "browning" but I will agree/ diasgree with you

~~~~

NOTE:  For my point, I will define black = an African American that has dark enough skin by American standards to be called black (Pres. Obama tone or something) with an "afro" or otherwise "not white" hair, or something. Not always true within American society, much less others, YMMV


I think we NEED formidable, powerful, awesome people with some melanin in the skin. However, because this is a "fantasy" game, having "black" people could be perceived as:

1. Pandering (or)
2. Insensitivity (and be)
3. Controversial (We've already got problems with Isabela, and she's not even "black"!)

Should it be? No!

But it will be. And the fantasy-scape of our dark skinned Rivainis and possibly "African culture inspired" Fog Warriors (someone mentioned that as a rumor here) may provide that chance without as much "racial" baggage. 

I just want people who have afros or "nappy hair" and dark skin to not be intimidated to pick up a video game, just like a woman or a gay person or someone who is not cis-gender. I want them to plug in a game and feel like they aren't a stereotype and this game was made for them in mind as well. 

Bioware has, imo, done that wonderfully. Better than many, many other video game developers.

I will not cry over the fact than Isabela is tan vs. "black" (whatever black MEANS TO YOU, as it means something different to everyone, being purely a social construct, after all) because at least, she was not "white," she was not a "color steroetype" (maybe some other stereotypes, but not that one) and Bioware defended her "darkness" when it was questioned.....

There.*sigh*

I wholeheartedly agree with this. If you'd fix it up a little, I could even add it to the first post so it applies more to newcomers.

As for the term "browning", I learned the term when I attended an art event, and young african woman did spoken word, her first spoken word on the subject of the unfortunate fact that bleaching has become more prominent for very dark skinned young women, and how they shouldn't be afraid to embrace who they are. Supposedly the idea stems from seeing very light skinned, famous black women in media being praised, in comparison to their much darker counterparts barely being seen at all.

ah, ok. 

I honestly don't know how to "fix it up" but you can take it and play with it if you want, no problem (I'd have no clue how you want to format it to fix it)

[ziloe]

Palipride47 wrote...

ziloe wrote...

Palipride47 wrote...

ziloe wrote...

It doesn't matter that the player character can be that. What matters is having an interesting character, who isn't the player character, and who happens to be of a different ethnicity. And no, I don't think being as dark as Isabella counts, because that goes back to my point that a lot of dark skinned cultures feel ashamed of being too dark skinned, due to what the western media presents as beautiful skin. Which has led them to do something called, browning.

I'm not sure about your term "browning" but I will agree/ diasgree with you

~~~~

NOTE:  For my point, I will define black = an African American that has dark enough skin by American standards to be called black (Pres. Obama tone or something) with an "afro" or otherwise "not white" hair, or something. Not always true within American society, much less others, YMMV


I think we NEED formidable, powerful, awesome people with some melanin in the skin. However, because this is a "fantasy" game, having "black" people could be perceived as:

1. Pandering (or)
2. Insensitivity (and be)
3. Controversial (We've already got problems with Isabela, and she's not even "black"!)

Should it be? No!

But it will be. And the fantasy-scape of our dark skinned Rivainis and possibly "African culture inspired" Fog Warriors (someone mentioned that as a rumor here) may provide that chance without as much "racial" baggage. 

I just want people who have afros or "nappy hair" and dark skin to not be intimidated to pick up a video game, just like a woman or a gay person or someone who is not cis-gender. I want them to plug in a game and feel like they aren't a stereotype and this game was made for them in mind as well. 

Bioware has, imo, done that wonderfully. Better than many, many other video game developers.

I will not cry over the fact than Isabela is tan vs. "black" (whatever black MEANS TO YOU, as it means something different to everyone, being purely a social construct, after all) because at least, she was not "white," she was not a "color steroetype" (maybe some other stereotypes, but not that one) and Bioware defended her "darkness" when it was questioned.....

There.*sigh*

I wholeheartedly agree with this. If you'd fix it up a little, I could even add it to the first post so it applies more to newcomers.

As for the term "browning", I learned the term when I attended an art event, and young african woman did spoken word, her first spoken word on the subject of the unfortunate fact that bleaching has become more prominent for very dark skinned young women, and how they shouldn't be afraid to embrace who they are. Supposedly the idea stems from seeing very light skinned, famous black women in media being praised, in comparison to their much darker counterparts barely being seen at all.

ah, ok. 

I honestly don't know how to "fix it up" but you can take it and play with it if you want, no problem (I'd have no clue how you want to format it to fix it)

Really, just addressing the newcomers, and making the cause more clear. I'd do it myself, but I'm already exhausted and just kinda want to relax atm. 

[Chaos Lord Malek]

Jacob is a african-american. There is no such thing in Dragon Age universe. And putting it in, just for the sake of being in there is waste of resources. Its the same problem like Merril and Fenris were forced into DA2, just because they were elves.

I rather have a more unique companions then just *fillers* or *tokens* that are in game just for the sake of being there - be it ethnicity or race. Typical examples of good companion is Shale, whos is golem, or from other games - the whole companions set of Planescape:Torment.

[ziloe]

Chaos Lord Malek wrote...

Jacob is a african-american. There is no such thing in Dragon Age universe. And putting it in, just for the sake of being in there is waste of resources. Its the same problem like Merril and Fenris were forced into DA2, just because they were elves.

I rather have a more unique companions then just *fillers* or *tokens* that are in game just for the sake of being there - be it ethnicity or race. Typical examples of good companion is Shale, whos is golem, or from other games - the whole companions set of Planescape:Torment.

Fenris and Merril were not tokens, just because they were elves. If humans exist, as they do in the DA universe, then they come in different colours. It's not complicated, and if they do it tastefully, and with a deep well developed character, it is not pandering either. 

[Perlicka]

Chaos Lord Malek wrote...
I rather have a more unique companions then just *fillers* or *tokens* that are in game just for the sake of being there - be it ethnicity or race. Typical examples of good companion is Shale, whos is golem, or from other games - the whole companions set of Planescape:Torment.

True

[ziloe]

Perlicka wrote...

Chaos Lord Malek wrote...
I rather have a more unique companions then just *fillers* or *tokens* that are in game just for the sake of being there - be it ethnicity or race. Typical examples of good companion is Shale, whos is golem, or from other games - the whole companions set of Planescape:Torment.

True

This is about changing the boundaries and doing something less common. It has nothing to do with being a token anything, but rather adding something that is seriously lacking in video games or any other media for that matter - that being a major role of any colour other than caucasian, that plays a heroic role. And most of the time when it does exist, it's either cliche/boring or completely contrived, i.e the token characters people keep bringing up.  

Just look at the Last Airbender movie. In the anime, it was meant to be a show with asian lore, and people of different descents, besides white to be the main cast. Of course, with the movie, when casting, they literally said in their casting call, "Caucasian or otherwise," and thought it perfectly appropriate for a white guy, to just get a tan to play the role of Sokka. This mentality that movies will sell better if the cast is white, needs to change. The same goes for video games as well. That's why for the first time, I'm actually excited for an Assasin's Creed game. This is the first time we will see a Native American play the main protagonist. 

So when we ask for a major role of a dark skinned character that appears of african descent, this shouldn't be asking a lot. Just like it shouldn't be asking a lot to have gay relationships be something that exists as well.

Modifié par ziloe, 23 octobre 2012 - 09:48 .

[InfinitePaths]

Yes encourage Bioware to make DA3 more like ME,go ahead.

[ziloe]

HeriocGreyWarden wrote...

Yes encourage Bioware to make DA3 more like ME,go ahead.

I believe we are in the process of doing just that, minus the ending debacle.

[InfinitePaths]

ziloe wrote...

HeriocGreyWarden wrote...

Yes encourage Bioware to make DA3 more like ME,go ahead.

I believe we are in the process of doing just that, minus the ending debacle.

ME3 was meant to be an action RPG,while Dragon Age the more old and classic RPG,don't ruin it with ME3,It's not the same game!

[InfinitePaths]

All companions are set BTW

[ziloe]

HeriocGreyWarden wrote...

All companions are set BTW

They're still going through ideas, according to another thread I read, so...

[Momiji.mii]

Mary Kirby wrote...

Because they had completely different engines. Dragon Age was made with Eclipse, and Mass Effect with Unreal. The Eclipse engine couldn't render dark skin very well. The darker the skin, the more it started to look like an overcompressed jpeg with jagged, pixelated lines where gradations of color occurred. We are hopeful that we can have a much wider range of skin colors (particularly darker ones) in Inquisition thanks to Frostbite.

This makes me happy! I had problems with my dark-skinned Lady Hawke before figuring out that giving her an older look and making the game brighter in the settings made the skin tone look better. Glad that the team is taking steps to solve this problem in the next game! Much appreciated.

[azerSheppard]

Yes, we need the token black guy, and a fat black woman doing the sister act, maybe get whoopi in on this.

[Dhiro]

HeriocGreyWarden wrote...

ziloe wrote...

HeriocGreyWarden wrote...

Yes encourage Bioware to make DA3 more like ME,go ahead.

I believe we are in the process of doing just that, minus the ending debacle.

ME3 was meant to be an action RPG,while Dragon Age the more old and classic RPG,don't ruin it with ME3,It's not the same game!

I'm not sure how providing a companion that is also a POC will somehow turn Dragon Age into an action RPG.

[ThisIsZad]

Emzamination wrote...

... I don't know... I... I'm leaving

right behind you

[Milan92]

Aren't the Rivain people close to black?

[TobiTobsen]

Bah... as soon as we get a black companions I'm sure somebody will mod them white, like that abomination of an "white Isabela" mod.

Vicarious embarrassment at its finest.